ESG investors have traditionally viewed defense and energy sectors as off-limits or at least challenging to their objectives. However, defense and energy stocks have seen dramatic gains this year as energy prices have boomed as have plans for defense spending. Many ESG investors had already been moving toward a more nuanced approach, looking for ESG improvers rather than just excluding certain groups and companies, a move that has been accelerated by recent realities. Defense companies that were once associated with harmful practices may now be viewed as champions of freedom and democracy and the EU taxonomy around ESG investing seems to allow this as long as companies aren't wholly opposed to social objectives. Savita Subramanian and Ronald Epstein join us to discuss these issues and how defense may benefit from both higher spend and a widening pool of investors.

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