Dennis & Barbara's Top 25 All-Time Interviews

Messy Grace (Part 1) - Kaleb Kaltenbach
Messy Grace (Part 2) - Kaleb Kaltenbach
Messy Grace (Part 3) - Kaleb Kaltenbach

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

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Loving Our Gay Friends and Neighbors

Guest:                         Caleb Kaltenbach                

From the series:       Messy Grace (Day 3 of 3)

Bob: There is a right way and a wrong way for us to hold fast to biblical truth and still have healthy relationships with our LGBT friends. Caleb Kaltenbach offers an example of the wrong way to go about that. 

Caleb: Somebody named Joe will meet somebody in their workplace, who identifies as LGBT. So, Joe becomes his friend. Joe thinks that he has to let him know about Leviticus, and Genesis 19, and Ephesians 5, and Romans 1—and we’ll throw in 

1 Corinthians 6—but without building a relationship and getting to know him, all of a sudden, he will throw all these verses at this gay man over here that, now, realized he’s being treated like a project. He walks away, rejecting everything / feeling wounded. Joe walks away, feeling like some kind of accomplished martyr; but really, what Joe has done is—he has pushed this man further away from God. 

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, July 4th. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I’m Bob Lepine. 

1:00

How can we represent Jesus well as we build healthy relationships with people who don’t live like us, or think like us, or believe like us?  That’s what we’re going to talk about today. Stay with us. 

And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition, here, on Independence Day in the United States. I’m guessing there are not many people in America we could talk to who grew up in a home where mom and dad got a divorce; mom moved in with her lesbian partner; dad remained a bachelor and later came out of the closet as a gay man; and where the son, who grew up in that situation, wound up going to Bible college, committing his life to fulltime ministry. I’m guessing that’s a relatively unusual story. 

 Dennis: I’m guessing it is, too; but it’s what makes this book, Messy Grace, a compelling read. I think this is a safe way for a mom/a dad, a husband/a wife, who is trying to figure out: 

2:00

“How do I relate to people who don’t believe like I do?”—this is a safe place to go read—and maybe something that some groups of people need to dig into and do a Bible study around—and just interact around these chapters; because I think what our guest on the show today has done is—he’s invited all of us into his life / into a world we don’t know a whole lot about. 

By doing so, he’s coaching us as the son of two gay moms / as the son of a father, who after divorcing his mom, came out as a homosexual as well. You know, I just think—as you said, Bob—there’s not that many that can offer that kind of insight and coach us from that standpoint. 

Caleb Kaltenbach joins us again on FamilyLife Today. Caleb, welcome back. 

Caleb: Hey, it’s great to be here. 

Dennis: Bob gave a good overview of your life. He hit something kind of quickly that I want you to unpack for us. Your moms had thrown you out of the house when you said you were becoming a follower of Christ; your dad had done virtually the same. 

3:00

What did they say when you said you wanted to go to a Bible school?  

Caleb: Again, my mother’s partner was a psychologist—a PhD / very smart. Both of my parents were university professors. When I told them that I wanted to go to a Bible college—and in their minds, a narrow-minded Bible college—it did not go over at all. They just said: “You’re paying for everything on your own. You—there is no way we’re going to help you out with it—nothing is going to happen there,” and “I can’t believe that you would even consider that. You’re going to wind up homeless on the street; and you’re going to be eating ramen noodles your whole life, if you can afford those.”  

Bob: But their view did soften over time, because one of them helped you get a loan; didn’t they?

Caleb: Yes; my dad eventually—because he saw that I was not backing down. It’s part of my German stubbornness, I think—we don’t back down too easily. I said, “This is what I’m doing, with or without my family, because I feel like God’s call is that strong.” 

4:00

I said, “I’m going forward with this.”  My dad eventually helped me to get my first loan—that’s what they did for me. I spent my weekends preaching in small, country churches to earn money for college; washed dishes in the cafeteria; did everything I could; but I really cut my teeth in Bible college by preaching at a lot of small, country churches. 

Dennis: How did they handle your background, or did you keep it a secret from them?  

Caleb: No; because I wanted people to know what they were getting into. I remember the first church I ever preached in was in Kansas—small town. We had six people in the church—the youngest one was 60. They wanted to start a youth group—it was going to be a youth group of 40-year-olds. [Laughter]  I told them about my background, and they didn’t like that too much. 

The second church I was at—I was there for about 18 months. It was in Missouri, and I was near a town called Nevada—[first “a” is long]. It should be called Nevada—[same pronunciation as the state]—but everybody called it Nevada [long “a”] in Missouri. It was near Fort Scott, Kansas. I preached there for 18 months. 

5:00

Twenty-five people in the church / fifty people in the town—we were the largest church, per capita, in the world at the time, at best. 

Bob: Yes; right. 

Dennis: Right. 

Caleb: I kind of eased into the conversation about my parents, then; but there was one Sunday that was very, very profound to them. I kept on asking my mom to come to church with me to hear me preach. I was only, I think, at that time, a junior or a sophomore in college. I’d only had one preaching class at my Bible college, and I just really—that’s how I learned how to preach. 

My mom finally came with me. She wouldn’t come back the ...

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

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Resurrection Eggs: Creatively Sharing Christ

Guest:                         Barbara Craft                                    

From the series:       Resurrection Eggs: Creatively Sharing Christ (Day 1 of 1)

Bob: In 1994, a grandmother by the name of Barbara Craft heard about a way to use plastic Easter eggs to share the Easter story with friends, neighbors and children. She fell in love with the idea.

Barbara: The idea that I like about this is you’re getting the Bible in front of them—you’re getting the Word of God. This is not just a story. We’re using great things to tell a story. This is something—they may remember the donkey, the nails—but it’s a way of engraving the Word on their heart and fulfilling Deuteronomy 6—you know, it says to talk about these things when you get up / when you’re sitting in your house. This is, to me, what this project does.

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, April 2nd. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We will hear some FamilyLife Today history today as we hear about the first time Barbara Craft shared with us the idea for what became Resurrection Eggs®. Stay tuned.

1:00

And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. We have people who will pull us aside, from time to time; and they’ll say to us: “You know who you guys ought to interview? You ought to have so-and-so as a guest on your program.” We often get some great recommendations from listeners who suggest someone that we ought to talk to.

Dennis: We do. I agree.

Bob: We try to dig and say: “Okay, what would our listeners be most interested in? What would be most helpful? What is the best kind of practical, biblical help we can give them related to marriage and family?” 

I remember when somebody on our staff, more than 20 years ago, pulled me aside and said, “Do you know who you ought to interview?” And they told me about a grandma, who was on staff, here at FamilyLife. I have to confess to you, I thought, “Yeahhh, we’re probably not going to do an interview with a grandma who’s on staff.” You know?

2:00

Dennis: This is not just any grandma. This is Barbara Craft. She is a woman of the Word. She is a wife, a mom, a grandmother who has taken her role seriously. When she found out about a way to be able to bring the reality of Easter into her family—but also the families of her neighbors—she jumped all over it.

Bob: This was a craft project she put together: —a basket full of plastic eggs—each one with a symbol of Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection.

Dennis: There must have been 25 to 30 different eggs in the basket that she brought in.

Bob: I just thought: “How are we going to talk about plastic eggs on a radio program? People can’t see it. It’s a nice idea—“

Dennis: Well, we always are interested in helping families have an outreach to others.

Bob: And that’s ultimately why we decided, “Let’s go ahead and have Barbara on.” I remember thinking, in the back of my mind, “You know, if the interview doesn’t go well, we don’t have to use it.” Well, the interview went fine; didn’t it?

3:00

Dennis: It went so well, in fact—just a little bit more to the story. I don’t remember exactly how it occurred; but as we were interviewing her, it all made so much sense. Somehow, we put our heads together and said: “You know, we really can’t put these eggs in a basket and ship them in the mail to listeners who want them. I would think people would like to have a dozen of these eggs of their own.” 

We thought: “What if you took a carton and filled it full of these eggs—with the objects that are in them that tell the story of Easter—that help a mom and dad, grandma / grandpa, or help a young family share Christ in their neighborhood with the world’s largest Easter egg party? What if we had something like that?” Well, we put together a few of them—

Bob: We put together 3,000 sets.

Dennis: Were you out there?

Bob: I was not out there.

Dennis: I was out there—at our kids’ junior high cafeteria. We worked all Saturday. I prayed over those 3,000 sets—I said, “Lord, God, I pray these don’t end up in our warehouse for the next 20 or 30 years.”

4:00

Bob: We were putting little donkeys into one egg, and putting coins in another egg.

Dennis: A rock representing the stone that was put in front of Christ’s grave in another, and then, of course, there was the easiest one to assemble of all—which had nothing in it.

Bob: That’s right, the empty egg which represents the tomb. And here’s the thing—we did the 3,000 sets; and we also made available a list so, if anybody wanted to create their own set, they could just—“Here, you need to find a donkey, and you need to find a little pebble, you need to find the coins…” and all that. “Get your own plastic eggs.” Well, we had people calling us saying, “We want multiple sets of those.” Those 3,000 were gone like that! That first year, we wound up assembling an additional 7,000 to send out to our listeners.

Dennis: And I’m going to tell our listeners—I was not there on the second Saturday they had to be assembled. In fact, I think we found someone—a bunch of teenagers to be able to—[Laughter]

5:00

Bob: [Laughter] You scheduled a weekend out of town when you heard that was happening, as I remember. Well, today, we thought it would be fun for our listeners to go back and hear that very first interview, from 20 years ago, when Barbara Craft—that grandmother who was on staff, here at FamilyLife—came into the studio and brought the very first Resurrection Eggs that we had ever seen.

[Recorded Interview]

Dennis: Our table is covered with eggs here. It’s really quite festive here, Bob. Tell us: “What do all these eggs represent, Barbara?” and, “How did you come up with the idea of teaching about Easter through an object lesson like eggs?”

Barbara: Well, I didn’t come up with the idea. I’m not a creative-type person. I’m one that sees an idea and I can go with it. I was in our home, teaching ladies how to do a craft project—using paper bags and paper twists—and mak...

Gone Fishing With Hank Parker (Part 1) - Hank Parker
Gone Fishing With Hank Parker (Part 2) - Hank Parker
Gone Fishing With Hank Parker (Part 3) - Hank Parker

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.

Hooked on Christ

Guest:                        Hank Parker                                      

From the series:       Gone Fishing with Hank Parker (Day 1 of 3)         

Bob: Everybody in the little town where Hank Parker grew up knew that Hank’s dad, Mo, was the town drunk. But he still had friends who never gave up on him, including one friend who dropped by the house one Saturday afternoon. Here’s Mo Parker’s son, Hank.

Hank: He said, “Mo, I wanted to talk to you; but I see you’ve got Hank here with you. I‘m not going to bother your father/son time; but Mo, I want to leave you with one thought: “If you died today, where would you spend eternity?”  My dad was about half drunk. I heard him say later that he had drunk the rest of the bottle of alcohol and opened another one and could not get drunk enough to get that thought off his mind.

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, June 7th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We’ll hear about the dramatic turnaround in Mo Parker’s life; and we’ll meet his son, Hank, today. 

1:00

Stay with us.

And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. So this is for real; right?—“the rod-and-reel answer to Michael Jordan,”—that’s what it says right here. That’s the guy we’ve got today?

Dennis: I’m just telling you, Bob—there is a big difference in fishing with a true professional fisherman and just being a good amateur.

Bob: Help our listeners understand, because some of them are not fishermen or fisherwomen. They’ve never been to a pond with a rod and a reel. They’re going, “So you want me to listen to a guest who is a pro fisherman.”

Dennis: Well, you’re going to hear a compelling story of how the God of the universe created a young man to use for His purposes. But he didn’t take the normal route to find that purpose. We are going to listen to Hank Parker’s story today. Welcome to the broadcast, Hank.

Hank: Well, it is certainly a privilege to be here. 

2:00

I’m excited.

Dennis: Yes; I thought Bob was actually going to ask you just about when you had me on your fishing show.

Bob: I was going to get there, because he came back bragging about—[Laughter]

Dennis: Oh, I was not bragging.

Bob: He said, “I could do that. I could be just like Hank Palmer.” That’s what he was telling us. [Laughter]

Dennis: No; I did not say that, Hank. I came back and I said, “There is a big difference between someone who has won the national championship of bass fishing twice and the rest of us who grew up on little lakes and streams around the country.”

Bob: We should explain you have a television show, where you go—you take people fishing on your show; right?

Hank: I had Dennis Rainey as a guest. How big is that? [Laughter] He did well. Let me tell you—he’s being modest.

Dennis: He took me to a fish hatchery. [Laughter]

Hank: Yes; we were fishing in a great place, no doubt. 

Dennis: Hank, I have to ask you this—you had an ambition, as a boy, at the age of 15.

3:00

Hank: Yes; I didn’t have a lot of options. I was not an academic achiever—that is an absolute understatement. I don’t know—when I was just a kid, I went fishing and just fell in love with it. It just mesmerized me. It was bigger than life itself to me. I started reading about these guys, who were making a living bass fishing; and I said: “That is me. That’s what I’m going to do.”

Dennis: I want to go back to a statement you just kind of slipped by. [Laughter] You said you were not an academic achiever. There was something taking place in you—you didn’t understand until you became an adult, later on. Explain to our listeners what happened.

Hank: Yes; I had dyslexia. The little school system I was in—we were in a little small town of Maiden, North Carolina—about 2,400 people I think. I may be off some there—but a very, very small town—just a little school. I don’t know that any schools knew anything about dyslexia in 1958 or -9. 

4:00

I just read everything backwards. The harder I tried, the worse it became. I felt like I was the dumbest guy in the world.

My mom would sit down with me at times and really try to get me to buckle down and do my homework. The more I tried to really get it right, the more I got it wrong. I just felt stupid.

Bob: Did you grow up with nobody believing in you?

Hank: Pretty much I did. I had a very dysfunctional home. My dad was a drunk. My mother later—by the time I was probably in the third grade—by that time, my mom had really started taking medication for [depression]—antidepressants. She’d stay in the bed all the time. So pretty much after the time I was probably fourth/fifth grade on, I was kind of on my own.

Dennis: —like into the wee hours of the night on your own.

Hank: Yes; I would do whatever. My mom and my dad separated. My dad was a drunk / my mom finally got tired of that—she left. At that time, it was no adult supervision or guidance; or I didn’t have to report to anyone. 

5:00

Bob: And no spiritual direction in your life at that point?

Hank: No; we had gone to church when I was a kid. We went to a church that was not really a Bible-basic church. I never heard the gospel until I was 16 years old.

Dennis: You actually robbed vending machines to get cash to do what?

 ...

Gone Fishing With Hank Parker (Part 1) - Hank Parker
Gone Fishing With Hank Parker (Part 2) - Hank Parker
Gone Fishing With Hank Parker (Part 3) - Hank Parker

 FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

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A Legacy of Faith

Guest:                        Hank Parker                                      

From the series:       Gone Fishing with Hank Parker (Day 2 of 3)            

Bob: Hank Parker is an award-winning, world champion fisherman. In the process of chasing that dream, Hank looks back and realizes he neglected something even more important.

Hank: I was not the husband that God called me to be and the result was total devastation. The Bible says you love your wife as Christ loved the church and died for it. It is not contingent—God tells the wife what to do, and God tells the husband what to do. So my behavior is not contingent on how well she does her job, and God showed me that clearly.

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, June 8th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. It is easy in the pursuit of our dreams to neglect what’s really important in our lives. Hank Parker talks about that with us today. Stay tuned.

1:00

And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. I have been inspired this week. I think I can do it—I think I can become a world class bass fisherman. [Laughter] I mean—

Dennis: Bob— 

Bob: Yes?

Dennis: Bob, I’ve seen you fish. 

Bob: Well—

Dennis: Bob, tell the audience what kind of fishing pole I gave you.

Bob: We have been fishing together up on the—what was it?

Dennis: The White River.

Bob: It’s in Arkansas. They’re—what are the fish called? They’re trout?

Dennis: That’s what they are called. They have fins. 

Bob: Right

Dennis: They live in water.

Bob: Right.

Dennis: That is correct.

Bob: And there was a nice man in the boat who took those fish off that hook for me—I appreciated him a lot!

Dennis: But tell them about the pole I gave you. It was a kiddie pole—

Bob: It was a Zebco®.

Dennis: —a little pink kiddie pole, that was about two feet long and—

Bob: We’re going to post on our website, at FamilyLifeToday.com, a picture of the fish I caught with that big fishing pole—

Dennis: I was—that was where I was going.

Bob: —because I caught a pretty good-sized fish.

Dennis: I wanted to tell—

2:00

Bob: It was the big fish of the day.

Dennis: It was the big fish of the trip!

I got to introduce Hank Parker. Welcome back to Bob Lepine’s Outdoor Program. [Laughter]

Hank: The big-fish man caught it on a kid’s rod and reel, and it was two feet long!

I’ve never done that—that’s pretty special. [Laughter]

Dennis: Hank is a world champion bass fisherman. He has a TV program called Hank Parker’s Outdoors—also has a hunting program with your sons. Share with our listeners about that broadcast.

Hank: Okay. My fishing show is Hank Parker’s Outdoor Magazine, been running for 

34 years. Then, for 10 years now, I’ve been doing a show with my two older sons called Hank Parker’s Flesh and Blood. It’s a hunting show over on the Outdoor Channel. We’ve had a lot of fun with that.

Bob: So, I can look at myself in the mirror and know that I can’t make it in the NBA—[Laughter]—okay? I’m not tall enough / I can’t jump that high. I can look at myself in the mirror and know the NFL is out for me. Can anybody be a world class fisherman?

3:00

Hank: Absolutely! And that is what is so cool about our sport. I was talking earlier with some folks about the growth of high school fishing. These kids that are not athletic / these kids that don’t necessarily qualify for any type of team sport—the water is level. Whether you’re a little girl, a little boy, whether you’re tall—it doesn’t make any difference. You know, the water’s level; and fish are not partial to anybody—they’re non-discriminate.

Bob: Well, the guy that we went fishing with that day, who was in the boat—who took the fish off the hook for me? [Laughter] I saw what Dennis paid him at the end of the day. He’s making a good living doing that. He’s doing alright; you know?

Dennis: There are a lot of days when you don’t go to work though, Bob.

Bob: Okay!

Dennis: Alright. I want you to talk to our listeners—we’ve got other stories that I want you to tell—but I just—for a moment, talk to moms and dads about doing something like fishing or hunting with your son / with your daughter; because it really is a great way—

4:00

Bob is kind of kidding about this—but it really is a great way to bond and build relationships with your kids.

Hank: I have the opportunity—when I do fishing seminars, people will ask questions from time to time. I take every opportunity that I can to spread the word that fishing will break down a lot of barriers. In my life, it was everything. But almost every kid that you will ever see catch a fish—whether they are 2 years old or 80 years old / old kids— everybody catches a fish smiles / it’s fun.

But you know, we all are guilty—I’m guilty of driving the kids to school—the bell is going to ring at 8:15, and we’ve got to hurry and hurry. You kind of force feed a conversation when the mood’s wrong. Man, you can tak...

Gone Fishing With Hank Parker (Part 1) - Hank Parker
Gone Fishing With Hank Parker (Part 2) - Hank Parker
Gone Fishing With Hank Parker (Part 3) - Hank Parker

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.

Life’s Next Chapter

Guest:                        Hank Parker              

From the series:       Gone Fishing with Hank Parker (Day 3 of 3)

______________________________________________________________________________

Bob: When Hank Parker’s marriage dissolved, he was hurting. When we’re hurting, we can do or say things we wish later we hadn’t done or said. Hank remembers getting some very wise counsel.

Hank: I had a great Christian friend that came to me. I was living with Hank, Jr. When you’re hurting, you tend to vent. This man came up to me and put his arm around me; and he said: “I know you’re hurting, and I know you’re living with Hank, Jr. I’m not accusing you of anything, but I just want to tell you—if you are venting anything about your marriage to your son, that’s his mom; and you’re making a horrible mistake.”

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, June 9th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We’ll talk today to world champion fisherman, Hank Parker, and hear some of the lessons life has taught him as he has learned to walk with Jesus. 

1:00

Stay with us.

And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. You know, we have some listeners who have been tuned in—and we’ve been talking about hunting and fishing this week—and really talking about family and—

Dennis: Yes; I have to say, Bob, there have been some pretty gritty conversations with Hank Parker.

Bob: It has been, but I know we have listeners, who are going: “I’m just not an outdoor fish-and-hunt kind of guy, and I’ve just never been into that kind of thing. Can a guy just go do it by himself?” They’re wondering whether this is something they ought to give a whirl to; and if they should, how do they do it?

Dennis: Well, they just need to find someone who can mentor them a little bit, because no one just walks in the woods and becomes a hunter. And frankly, being a fisherman as well—it helps to find somebody who knows how to do it. Would you agree, Hank?

Hank: Well, we live in a unique time. It is incredible how much information is on the Internet—so you can get it all. 

2:00

You can go to any of the archery companies: “How to,” “Where do I start?” “What do I need?” Any of the boat companies can tell you how to get started fishing. You can go to the game and fish sites, and they can tell you where all public fishing is at. It’s all out there; so it’s so easy to find if you’re an Internet searcher. That doesn’t fit me very well, but for most people they go for that. [Laughter]

Bob: But if a guy’s a novice—he’s never done any of this before—and he’s thinking: “Well, maybe this weekend we should go do something. Maybe I should take my sons fishing.”

Hank: Absolutely, without a doubt. You could go and you could hit your local fish and game website. They tell you where there’s public fishing / where there’s public access to launch boats—anything you want to know, it’s all there.

Bob: Well, if anybody should know, the guy we’re talking to this week should know; right?

Dennis: No doubt about it. 

3:00

He’s won the national championship of B.A.S.S. fishing twice / in the Hall of Fame of bass fishing as well—and has his own outdoor show called Hank Parker’s Outdoor Magazine.

Hank: That’s it.

Dennis: I’ve had a chance to be a guest on his show.

Bob: In fact, how could people watch the episode of you and Dennis? Is there some way they could see that? 

Hank: You know, I don’t know—that will air on Pursuit Network next year / it aired this year on the Outdoor Channel—so I’m really not positive. You can go to our website, HankParker.com, and you can get information on where that show will air or how to obtain a copy of that show.

Bob: Okay.

Dennis: Yes; there you go / there you go.

So here’s my question for you, Hank—and by the way, Hank Parker’s married to Martha, has four sons and a daughter, eleven grandchildren. I saw them all on Hank Parker’s Outdoor Magazine—he took them fishing together. It looked like a man in an anthill with all those kids fishing.

4:00

Hank: I have to clarify also—Martha has a wonderful daughter and two sons—so we’re a blended family. I have five and she has three; collectively, we have eleven grandkids—how awesome is that?

Dennis: Oh, that’s great. I’m glad you did correct me there.

So, if I said to you: “Hank, you had one place to go fishing. Conditions were going to be perfect—you could go anywhere in the world—where would you go and why?”

Hank: Oh, man, that is so tough. I have those decisions that I have to make each year. [Laughter]

Dennis: —because you can go wherever you want to go!

Hank: I do; I literally do. This year, I chose my favorite place to fish in the whole wide world—is Venice, Louisiana, on the Gulf of Mexico. You guys went on a cruise and left from the port of Louisiana. You went right by my fishing hole at the southwest path, where the Mississippi river meets the Gulf of Mexico.

Dennis: So are you fishing for red fish?

Hank: Big, giant red fish on bass tackle—it is unbelievable.

Dennis: I think I’ve seen one of those shows.

5:00

Hank: Oh, it’s so much fun.

Dennis: You caught a lot of fish doing that.

Hank: Oh, we caught 200 on top water one year. I took a group of guy...

Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New (Part 1) - Chris and Cindy Beall
Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New (Part 2) - Chris and Cindy Beall
Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New (Part 3) - Chris and Cindy Beall

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.

Desperate for Freedom

Guest:                         Chris & Cindy Beall                                      

From the series:       Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New (Day 1 of 3)                   

Bob: Chris Beall had a secret and it came to a point where he realized as long as he kept his secret a secret—it was affecting his marriage and his spiritual life. 

Chris: All the things that God wanted to do in my life wouldn’t happen until I had the courage to bring what was in the dark into the light. There’s something about bringing it into the light—confessing it to another person and praying for each other—that brings an exposure and a healing. The moment that I took that step was the beginning of radical healing in my own heart. 

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, August 28th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We’ll learn about Chris Beall’s secret today—and how it almost destroyed his marriage. Stay with us.

1:00

And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. 

We have a couple with us today who—some of our listeners will recognize them because their story. They’ve shared it on FamilyLife Today before. It’s been shared as a part of The Stepping Up® Video Series. It’s a great story of beauty coming from ashes.

Dennis: It is indeed. We have the author of the book Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New - Cindy Beall. Cindy, welcome back to the broadcast.

Cindy: It’s great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Dennis: And her husband, Chris—welcome back to you as well.

Chris: We are excited. We love you guys.

Dennis: The Beall’s have been married since 1993. They have three teenage sons and their story is one of the classics on FamilyLife Today in terms of God showing up and truly not only redeeming but reconciling their marriage.

Bob: If our listeners would like to hear the complete story of what brought your marriage to the brink,

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they can go to our website—FamilyLifeToday.com—and listen to the interviews we’ve done with you. But Chris, it’s rooted in you growing up with the exposure to pornography that lead you to some dark places. 

Chris: Right. Eight years old I saw the first pornographic image—and for the next twenty years I was a prisoner—in one form or another—to the struggle. In 2002 we were invited to be a part of Life Church in Oklahoma City and we came. At that moment I really feel like there was kind of a do-over because I had an enormous amount of baggage and an enormous amount of lifestyle moral failures. Honestly, multiple affairs prior to us moving to Oklahoma City.

Dennis: That weren’t really known to anyone.

Chris: Correct. It was total double life. Cindy knew something wasn’t right in our marriage, didn’t know exactly what that meant or what it looked like. 

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I would say that I was a master deceiver—of myself and other people—to keep those worlds separate—but it was when we came to Life Church that it really seemed like, “Okay, God. We thought we were coming to be the next worship leader at this church”

—and the reality was God brought us there to heal us. That starts with the exposure of what the sin was.

Bob: Cindy, for you that exposure came out of the blue one morning when your husband came home from work unexpectedly and said, “We need to talk.” You had no idea was coming.

Cindy: I had no idea. As he began to unfold the things he just shared with you—the pornography addiction, the infidelity—as he began to say all those things, things just started happening in my mind. Of course, instant desperation, despair, everything terrible you can imagine that you could think, I thought it—but at the same time was—”Oh, it’s making sense now.” 

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Because it wasn’t our entire nine years of marriage leading up to this point—it was about a two and one half year period of really intense difficulty—so it was a total shock. I would never have imagined that he would have gone this far—this deep—into such a wretched place.

Dennis: You knew at that point that something was missing in your marriage. You just couldn’t say, “This is it”—but all of a sudden it was disclosed.

Cindy: Absolutely.

Chris: Correct.

Cindy: For me, I remembered during that two and a half year period I felt very alone where we were in our church. My husband was the worship pastor, the youth pastor and so I really—people looked to me—so who am I going to talk to? I just—it was really a lonely place for me so I became very well acquainted with my heavenly Father. He became everything to me. I remember just praying, “God, something’s wrong. Something’s wrong.” I just remember Him saying, “Trust me. Trust me.” 

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So, I believed that had we not come to Oklahoma, been a part of Life Church—under Craig and Emily Groshell—that we might not have survived this.

Chris: I remember seeing a book that was always next to Cindy’s chair during her quiet times in the mornings during those two and a half years that I was living this double life. It was the Power of a Praying Wife. 

Dennis: Yes.

Bob: Yes.

Chris: I will tell you, looking back, my wife was praying God’s word over my life in the period that I was the most prodigal that I had ever been. I know we’re going to get to this, but I truly believe where we are today—there are so many things how the church...

Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New (Part 1) - Chris and Cindy Beall
Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New (Part 2) - Chris and Cindy Beall
Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New (Part 3) - Chris and Cindy Beall

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

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Gradually Rebuilding Trust

Guests:                      Chris & Cindy Beall                                                  

From the series:       Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New (Day 2 of 3)

Bob: When Chris Beall was unfaithful to his wife Cindy, she faced a decision. Was she going to forgive him, or not? Here’s how she thought that through.

Cindy: I really do believe—with all my heart—he never wanted to hurt me. He still did—but he did not want that—so forgiving him, was really rather easy. Trusting him? That was something had to be earned for months—and years—to come. 

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, August 29th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. What does the process of rebuilding trust in a broken marriage relationship look like? Chris and Cindy Beall join us today to talk about their experience. Stay with us. 

And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. One of the things that we’ve talked with couples about over the years is the whole issue of how trust gets rebuilt in a relationship when that trust has been violated. 

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Usually the violator is hoping that that trust can get rebuilt—like really quickly. The violated person is going, “No, no, no, no, no—this is a much slower process than you imagine—or than it feels like it ought to be to you—because you’re not the one who got kicked in the gut; right?

Dennis: Yes. Usually the one who confesses the sin—especially in a marriage relationship where a betrayal is so personal—feels like they can empty the garbage can and it’s like a dump truck comes and takes it away.

Bob: And they feel free because they’ve become unburdened!

Dennis: They’ve finally gotten rid of it and their spouse is left to know—what do I do with this—

Bob: In the garbage!

Dennis: —with this garbage? We’ve got a couple with us—first of all the author of the book Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New, Cindy Beall—welcome back, Cindy.

Cindy: Thank you.

Dennis: And her husband Chris, joins us.

Chris: Thank you. So excited to be here.

Dennis: They’ve been married since 1993. They have three boys.

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You shared earlier about how your marriage had to deal with Chris’s deceit, betrayal, pornography, an affair, the birth of a child outside of marriage that you knew nothing about—and your world was shattered instantly. Yet, one of the great parts of your story is that you were part of a church—Life Church—where you now work—

Chris: Correct.

Dennis: —Chris. I actually love this part of the story, Bob, because many of us have heard a lot of couples, where things have gone wrong and they kind of drop off the face of the planet, and you never hear from them again. Well, that’s not the case with Chris and Cindy Beall. They received forgiveness from one another—they have experienced healing. That’s what I really want to explore here—and begin with you, Cindy, to just unpack. 

After you initially responded with grace and forgiveness and a commitment to the marriage some three weeks into the discovery that your husband had been unfaithful for a number of years—

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—not only with pornography but also with affairs with multiple women.

How did you experience that healing on an ongoing basis—because there are a lot of listeners who are in the midst of their own deep trauma and trial right now—they need to know where to look for help and hope. 

Cindy: Grief is not enjoyable. Nobody wants to grieve. We experienced grief when we lose something—it could be a job, it could be a relationship, it could be a person—so our marriage—I felt like—died that day. So I began a grief process. There’s different stages—you can research and find about all that—but I didn’t really experience a ton of anger or denial—I went straight into the ‘pit of despair’, is what I call it. 

For me, I tried for a little bit to kind of push it away when triggers would come. That’s what I used the phrase a lot in my book and when I’m talking to women. 

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Triggers would come to remind me of something he had done or something he had said that would trigger back to that two and a half year period. I had an option—I could suppress it—push it aside—forget it—not think about it—or I could feel it and I could push through it and I could move through it.

Dennis: Let’s talk about one of those triggers. One of the ways would be when he came home late. Maybe a bit later than he had told you he would be home.

Cindy: Oh, yes! And I’m thinking, “This reminds me of that time period and what am I going to do with it?” An even better trigger—I want to tell you about this—that I wrote about—I was in Walmart and I was grocery shopping. 

I remember looking up on the shelf for a particular item for this recipe I was making. This was probably three months after confession. I see it and I’m reminded of something that I used to do when we lived in the other town and it reminded me of, “Oh, he often wasn’t home when I did this.” “He was doing a ministry appointment.”

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“Oh, he was—,“ and it triggered and I started thinking...

Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New (Part 1) - Chris and Cindy Beall
Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New (Part 2) - Chris and Cindy Beall
Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New (Part 3) - Chris and Cindy Beall

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.

Embracing Hope

Guest:                        Chris and Cindy Beall                                 

From the series:       Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New                 

Bob: Rebuilding a broken marriage is not a simple process; it’s not a painless process. But Chris Beall—who is doing it—says it is a worthwhile process to go through.

Chris: You’re walking through a betrayal—you don’t know the where to go. The best thing you can do for other people is not tell a story but live a story. It’s not time for you to focus on helping other people. Every day you’re going to choose to forgive the other person, you are writing a sentence in a paragraph of a story that years from now will be worth telling—and we do that by submitting to God at every moment of this process of healing.

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, August 30th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. If there has been damage done to your marriage, there is a path forward—and it’s a path worth walking. Stay with us.

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And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. 

I sent out a tweet a while back and I got a response to it. I’m thinking maybe our guests could help—knowing how I should respond to the response. The tweet I sent out said—it was from when Gary Thomas was here and we were talking about cherishing and what it means to cherish one another in marriage. I said, “Cherishing another person means I’m going to look out for your interests as more important than my own.” 

The tweet I got back was from somebody who said, “How do you get there with a lying, betraying husband who has no idea what passion or intimacy is?” I don’t know how to answer that in 140 characters—I don’t think you can answer that in 140 characters—but it’s a very real issue for a lot of people thinking, “How do I fulfill my vows? How do I love and trust and cherish another person when they are a lying, betraying individual?”

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Dennis: That really is a good question—and I’m glad we have the guests that we have on FamilyLife Today. 

Bob: So we’re off the hook! 

Dennis: Chris—

Bob: So, we’ll let them answer it!

Dennis: Chris and Cindy Beall join us again on the broadcast. Welcome back.

Chris and Cindy: Thank you!

Dennis: Chris is a pastor at Life Church in Oklahoma City. Cindy is an author of a book called, Rebuilding a Marriage Better Than New—and Cindy, you’re the expert on this because this is what you’ve done. 

Cindy: One of the things that people often say is, “Well, I’m going to do this to them because they are doing this to me”—so through revenge they are getting back at someone. I believe that when we get back at someone, the first person that we’re hurting is God. If Chris sins against me and then I then turn around and say, “I’m going to go cheat on him.” I’ve wounded the heart of God first—I have broken covenant with Him first—and then I might hurt my husband. 

For me, I would say to that woman—or to anyone—you’ve got to do the right thing regardless of someone else’s actions. 

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That’s it. Someone else’s sinful life does not give me the right to sin against my God. That’s where I lived. It’s not easy. It’s very challenging, and I can’t say I did it 100% perfect all the time—but I don’t want to break my God’s heart—I don’t want to do that.

Bob: You’ve had the opportunity, over that last half dozen years, to sit down with lots of couples who have gone through what you lived through. What you lived through was years of your husband looking at pornography—ultimately that lead to affairs outside of marriage—he fathered a son. You didn’t know any of this. He finally comes clean. You have to decide—“Am I going to stay with him? Am I going to try to rebuild this marriage? Can I ever trust him again?”—all of these things facing you. 

When you sit down with these couples today, they are at a place that you were at, where there is a road in front of them. 

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You can pick one path and that’s a path that can feel like it will cause the pain to stop right away—or you can pick the other path which feels like this is going to take me right into the pain. What kind of hope do you give them and how do you point them in a God-ward direction?

Cindy: The first thing, I think— just the fact that maybe it’s the four of us—maybe it’s a couple and Chris and me. I think the fact just seeing us brings them some hope—just the fact that we’ve lived through it. So when I’m faced with that question a lot of women will say, “What should I do?” Honestly, I cannot make that decision for them. I tell them, “You don’t you have to decide the rest of your life today.” I steal that little phrase from my friend Kevin. 

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But I also just encourage them, “Look, whatever path you take is going to hurt. Where is God leading you? Let the peace of God be your guide.” If you’ve got a spouse that is willing to do whatever it takes—you’re willing to lay your life down and rebuild this. Consider this path. If you’ve got a spouse that’s still with someone else, or is acting like all this is your fault. Then you might have to play some hardball there, and show some tough love. 

Dennis: I’m just thinking of the command in Genesis 2, that says, “for this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, shall cleave to one another, and the two shall become one.” If you had not made a covenant between three—a man, and a woman, and their God—there’s no way this marriage would be standing today. 

Chris: Right!

Dennis: There wouldn’t be a title of a book, Rebuilding a Marriag...