Today I sit down with journalist Astead Herndon, whose award-winning political reporting has appeared in The New York Times, on CNN, and now in Vox, where he serves as editorial director.

Astead and I explore how President Donald Trump’s 2016 victory reshaped our own views of American politics. We disagree—cordially—about how much of Trump’s rise was driven by racism, and what that moment revealed about the country. From there, we discuss why more black voters have been moving to the right, and what that shift says about ideology, class, and generational change.

We also dive into Astead’s take on New York City politics, including Zohran Mamdani’s victory, touching on debates over Israel and Palestine, and Mamdani’s pivot away from “Defund the Police” and his evolving stance on rent control. 

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