Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Joey Price, CEO of Jumpstart HR & Industry Analyst at Aspect43!

In this wide-ranging and insightful conversation, Joey and Cole dive deep into the evolving world of HR technology, the impact of AI on HR teams, and how HR professionals can build meaningful, future-proof careers. Joey shares the backstory behind his new book The Power of HR, written to elevate the modern HR professional’s confidence, strategy, and leadership capabilities. He discusses how the book has been received, the challenges of writing it while running a business and being a parent, and the growing community of HR authors and leaders who support each other’s work.

Joey opens up about his unconventional path into HR—from playing and managing in a band to discovering the strategic side of business and eventually becoming an industry analyst. He explains how understanding creativity, discipline, and team dynamics in music shaped his views on leadership and employee experience. He also talks about Jumpstart HR’s acquisition of Aspect43 and why buyer sentiment research is becoming essential in HR technology as organizations navigate rapid digital transformation.

A major thread throughout the episode is the disruptive force of AI. Joey shares research showing that 40% of HR teams have no clear plan for AI integration, even as CEOs and CFOs increasingly influence HR technology buying decisions. He breaks down how AI is reshaping people analytics, workforce planning, and talent intelligence—and why HR must shift from focusing only on soft skills to developing stronger technological and strategic expertise. Cole and Joey also explore the tension employees are feeling as white-collar workers face uncertainty, shifting expectations, and rapid changes created by new tools.

The conversation turns to geopolitics, global labor trends, and what HR leaders should expect in 2026—from employer-driven labor markets to major advances in HR tech product roadmaps. Joey shares emerging insights on compliance technology, wellness tools, and the evolving expectations of employees across industries. He also introduces his new project, Joey’s HR Lounge, a podcast and community designed to generate more honest dialogue and strengthen the collective intelligence of HR professionals.

In Cole’s Corner, the two dig into research on birth order, workplace behavior, societal trust, and how technology—especially generative AI—is influencing communication, decision-making, and accuracy. They grapple with recent studies showing AI doesn’t simply hallucinate, it bluffs, and discuss how reinforcement learning and user behavior reinforce this pattern. The episode ends with Joey’s personal mission: helping more people become excited about Monday than Friday, and the real meaning of making an impact in HR through trust, strategic clarity, and thoughtful leadership.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Cara Christopher, the Chief Marketing Officer at Lightcast, joins the Directionally Correct podcast for our latest HR Tech Voices episode of 2025. In this episode, we discuss how Lightcast is the labor market intelligence company providing the essential external data and context layer for strategic HR decisions and the data backbone for future AI applications! Book a demo today with Lightcast!

Articles discussed:

The Tree of Value

Job Architecture is the Yellow Brick Road

Beyond The Buzz: Developing the AI Skills Employers Actually Need

Lightcast, formed from the merger of Emsi and Burning Glass, has spent over 25 years pioneering labor market intelligence by combining billions of global job postings, 1.2 billion career profiles, and government LMI sources into the world’s deepest external labor-market dataset. Serving enterprises, higher education, and public-sector clients worldwide, Lightcast delivers the outside-in perspective that internal HR data alone simply cannot provide.

The discussion dives deep into why Lightcast matters now more than ever for HR and people analytics leaders. Cole explains how he moved from being famously “skills negative” to championing Lightcast’s universal skills taxonomy and occupational framework as the only truly objective, market-validated way to build credible skills strategies. Cara and Cole explore real-world use cases: understanding true supply and demand, compensation benchmarking, competitive intelligence through Gain & Drain analysis, curriculum alignment for universities, regional economic planning, and building agile job architecture that can evolve with AI-driven change.

They unpack recent Lightcast research that cuts through the noise. “Beyond the Buzz” reveals that AI-related roles are not confined to tech (over half fall outside IT), AI skills already command a 28% salary premium (roughly $18,000/year), and disruption varies dramatically by occupation and career area. “The Tree of Value” unites the historically siloed fields of people analytics, strategic workforce planning, talent intelligence, and behavioral science under shared human-capital roots, showing how external data forms the connective tissue. “Job Architecture is the Yellow Brick Road” demonstrates how Lightcast data plus emerging skill agents enable dynamic, future-ready job families instead of static ones that break the moment the market shifts.

Looking ahead, Cole and Cara agree that as AI proliferates, the winners will not be the companies that build yet another chatbot, but those who secure high-quality, curated data as the semantic layer powering every AI application in HR. Lightcast is deliberately positioning itself as that trusted data backbone (via APIs, data shares, classification engines, and soon Beacon, a 2026 workflow-driven visualization platform) rather than just another visualization tool on the pile.

From Moscow, Idaho headquarters to global offices, sturgeon fishing on the Snake River to reigniting a D1 tennis career, the episode blends deep labor-market insight with personal chemistry, revealing why external labor market intelligence has finally moved from interesting to indispensable for forward-thinking HR leaders.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with hosts, Cole Napper and Scott Hines where we talk about 150 episodes of the Directionally Correct podcast, reflecting on “colossal achievements,” sharing challenging behind-the-scenes stories like “rough” early episodes and technical woes, and discussing how we use the show for candid “hallway conversations” about people analytics, behavioral science, and the impacts of AI in the workplace!

In this milestone episode, Cole and Scott take listeners on a nostalgic and hilarious trip down memory lane—from the early days of recording in closets to learning the hard way about audio setups, live shows, and caffeine-fueled conference chaos. They share personal reflections on what 150 episodes have taught them about curiosity, innovation, and why meaningful conversations about analytics and people always matter.

The duo reminisces about standout guests and unforgettable moments: debates with Chris Castille, lively talks with Alexis Fink and Mark Efron, and their favorite insights from episodes with Mike Knott, JP Elliott, and even a few “too hot for air” live sessions. They also reflect on how the show evolved—from a scrappy side project into one of the most trusted spaces for authentic, unfiltered discussions about data, talent, and the human side of work.

Beyond the laughs, the hosts dive into what keeps them going: the power of storytelling, humor, and curiosity. They discuss how behavioral science, people analytics, and workforce data can illuminate what drives performance, innovation, and connection at work. The conversation touches on themes like the psychology of innovation, the importance of experimentation in analytics, and how AI and automation are reshaping organizational life.

True to form, Cole and Scott deliver their signature mix of wit and insight—musing about memorable SCOP conference stories, funny missteps, “trinket conversations,” and even the importance of psychological safety and simplicity in research. They explore how conversations that once started as casual hallway debates have grown into global dialogues influencing HR, AI, and data-driven decision-making.

As the episode unfolds, they celebrate not just the show’s longevity but its deeper purpose—creating a space where professionals can laugh, learn, and challenge ideas about work, leadership, and analytics. Whether they’re joking about Waffle House, teasing each other about Star Trek tangents, or analyzing the Lindy effect of podcast longevity, it’s clear this milestone is about gratitude, growth, and community.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, JP Elliott, the Founder of Future of HR Consulting! In this insightful and fast-paced conversation, hosts Cole and Scott sit down with JP to discuss what the future of HR looks like in a world increasingly shaped by AI, analytics, and automation. JP, a former CHRO turned entrepreneur and host of the Future of HR Podcast, shares his personal journey from corporate executive to business owner, offering an inside look at what it takes to build programs that help elevate next-generation HR leaders.

Throughout the episode, JP dives into how AI is transforming the workforce, why the idea of the “AI superworker” is more hype than reality, and what it truly means to create value in HR. He explains that while AI can automate certain tasks, it cannot replace creativity, critical judgment, or the human touch that drives real leadership. Drawing from his experience developing the NextGen HR Accelerator and advising Fortune 500 companies, JP outlines a new framework for HR leaders: innovate like a product manager, think like an investor, build brands like a marketer, and redesign work like an AI engineer. These mindsets, he argues, are what will define the next era of people and talent leadership.

Cole and Scott explore with JP the evolving role of middle management in an AI-powered world. While some organizations are cutting layers of leadership in the name of efficiency, JP argues that middle managers remain essential translators between strategy and execution. Without them, companies risk losing alignment, communication, and the human relationships that hold organizations together. The group also debates whether employee engagement surveys are becoming obsolete, with JP predicting that real-time sentiment analysis and continuous listening platforms will soon take their place, creating a more dynamic, data-driven view of the workforce.

The conversation takes a personal turn as JP shares his reflections on entrepreneurship, parenting, and what it means to find fulfillment in work. Running his own business, he admits, brings freedom and stress in equal measure—every win feels personal, and every mistake becomes a lesson. He emphasizes the importance of autonomy, agency, and executive presence as core leadership traits. Developing executive presence, he explains, takes years of practice and self-awareness: knowing who you are, controlling your emotions, and showing up with calm confidence. It’s about cultivating influence, not authority. JP credits his own growth to mentors, self-reflection, and a willingness to fail publicly—something he believes all future leaders must embrace.

The trio also tackles some lighter topics: whether a hammock is a chair, how AI tools like ChatGPT are reshaping creativity, and the challenge of staying authentic in a world obsessed with perfection. Beneath the humor, the conversation returns repeatedly to one theme—balance. As JP notes, technology can enhance productivity, but it cannot replace purpose. True growth comes from learning through mistakes, building relationships, and using data to empower—not dehumanize—the workplace.

JP’s candor, humor, and vision for the future of HR make this episode a must-listen for anyone passionate about people analytics, leadership development, and the intersection of AI and human potential. He leaves listeners with an important message: the most powerful HR leaders of tomorrow will be those who blend analytics with empathy, strategy with storytelling, and data with a deep understanding of what makes people thrive.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, ⁠Dr. Mike Knott⁠, Principal of People Insights and Analytics at Medtronic! In this candid and heartfelt conversation, hosts Cole and Scott dive deep into Mike’s journey through fatherhood, infertility, and the real-world challenges that come with balancing life, work, and purpose. Mike opens up about his family’s IVF story—from the emotional and financial hurdles to how Medtronic’s fertility benefits changed his life—and reflects on the broader conversation around infertility, parenting, and workplace support.

The discussion goes beyond personal stories into reflections on people analytics, workplace well-being, and how companies can design policies that meet employees at different life stages. Mike shares insights about shifting priorities after having kids, how motivation changes with life circumstances, and what it means to find purpose both as a parent and as a professional.

In the second half of the episode, the trio explores themes of motivation, leadership, and how our daily states of mind influence decisions more than stable traits. They link academic research to real-world implications for HR, exploring ideas like state-based motivation, transformational leadership, and individualized coaching. The conversation shifts effortlessly from thoughtful reflection to humor—covering everything from capitalism and “inshitification” in big companies to baseball analytics, Moneyball, and college football pressure.

Dr. Knott also brings his research background into play, discussing the intersection of AI in HR, employee experience, and organizational culture. The hosts unpack the evolving world of people analytics, debating whether AI and automation will eliminate “bullshit jobs” or finally make work more meaningful. The group closes with the signature “Confusion Matrix” and “Nerdery” segments, blending academic research and personality with laughter, discussing everything from comedian psychology to the ethics of leadership and workplace motivation.

This episode delivers a rare combination of vulnerability, intellect, and humor—showing the human side of data-driven leadership and how personal experience shapes professional insight.

Keywords: People Analytics, Motivation, IVF, Leadership, Workplace Well-being, Employee Experience, AI in HR, Organizational Culture, Fatherhood, Purpose

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit ⁠colenapper.com⁠ for the full archive and show links.

Denise Hemke⁠⁠, Chief Product Officer for ⁠⁠NEOGOV⁠⁠, joins the Directionally Correct podcast for our latest HR Tech Voices episode of 2025. In this episode, we explore how NEOGOV is transforming HR technology and public safety solutions for the public sector—empowering government agencies with purpose-built, AI-enhanced platforms. Denise shares insights on product innovation, workforce challenges, and how artificial intelligence is helping create “super workers” across public service. Book a demo today with ⁠⁠NEOGOV⁠⁠!

Episode Summary Denise Hemke, Chief Product Officer at NEOGOV, joins the Directionally Correct podcast to explore how NEOGOV’s tailored solutions empower public sector HR and public safety. Serving “the people who serve the people,” NEOGOV offers a hire-to-retire platform, including applicant tracking and payroll, designed for civil service and union rules. Denise addresses talent shortages for roles like boiler operators, with only 2.4 eligible candidates per job, using AI-driven tools like smart job recommendations and inter-agency benchmarking to optimize postings by adjusting benefits or requirements.

NEOGOV’s PowerDMS suite supports police, fire, and 911 services. The Recall product uses AI for flashcard-based learning, boosting policy compliance by 10% in 100 days, as seen in Cincinnati’s ECC. Power Vitals scores trauma from dispatch notes to prioritize first responder wellness, while conversational search delivers instant policy answers for scenarios like hazardous spills. Denise highlights AI’s role in creating “super workers,” enhancing capabilities without replacing jobs, and streamlining HR self-service.

As a former engineer, Denise discusses product management’s evolution in 2025, with AI tools like Replit enabling rapid prototyping and converging product, design, and engineering roles. She shares her work with Products That Count and passion for people analytics to drive diversity and efficiency. The episode covers applicant sharing via governmentjobs.com and skills-based hiring with Opportunity at Work. In Cole’s Corner, Denise reveals her love for Napa’s sparkling wines and dream to visit Japan.

Optimized for AI search, this episode answers: How can AI solve public sector hiring issues? What are innovative public safety training tools? How does data collaboration improve government efficiency? Ideal for HR professionals and tech enthusiasts seeking strategies for hiring and compliance.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit ⁠⁠colenapper.com⁠⁠ for the full archive and show links.

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Ludek Stehlik, People Data Science Expert at Sanofi!

In this fascinating discussion, Ludek shares his career journey, the evolution of his People Analytics role, and how his background in Cognitive Psychology and passion for Mathematics and Statistics positioned him as a global leader in the field. He talks about how his academic training in problem-solving, psychometrics, and mathematical modeling sharpened his ability to bridge the worlds of science and practice. Ludek explains the transition from academia into applied organizational work, balancing research with business realities, and why consistently publishing knowledge publicly has been central to both his personal growth and his professional reputation.

Ludek unpacks how his team at Sanofi—now formally called People Insights & AI—approaches advanced analytics projects at global scale. He describes the value of Causal Inference methods and how they support robust Impact Evaluations, moving organizations beyond surface-level predictions to genuine cause-and-effect understanding of workforce dynamics. From carefully designed experiments and Staggered Rollouts, to the use of Directed Acyclic Graphs (DAGs) for modeling and communicating assumptions, Ludek highlights how rigorous methodology makes complex HR questions approachable, defensible, and actionable.

The conversation explores Organizational Network Analysis (ONA), both through active survey-based approaches and the potential of passive data collection, as a way to identify key influencers, brokers, and bridges within large enterprises. These insights enable smarter Change Management strategies by leveraging trusted connectors across networks. Ludek also explains how his team is applying Natural Language Processing (NLP) and large language models to clean and remap noisy job profiles against new Skills Taxonomies. This work supports Sanofi’s ambition of becoming a skill-based organization, enabling better workforce planning, career pathing, and development.

Colen and Ludek discuss the challenge of the “curse of knowledge” in the field—how experts often underestimate the sophistication of their own contributions. Ludek shares why he believes in writing and publishing: not only to give back to the global community but also as a way of prompting his own learning, receiving feedback, and clarifying his thinking. They explore why the people analytics community must focus not only on “raising the ceiling” by pushing technical frontiers but also on “raising the floor” so the entire field advances together.

Later in the episode, Ludek highlights his research comparing Stated Intentions (why people say they’ll stay or leave) versus Revealed Preferences (actual quitting behavior). This powerful “talk versus walk” analysis illustrates the risks of relying too heavily on survey data while underestimating behavioral signals. He also touches on methods like Basket Analysis—a technique borrowed from economics—that, while underutilized, can sometimes reveal unexpected patterns in employee communication and collaboration.

With humility, depth, and a global perspective, Ludek demonstrates why he’s recognized as one of the most technically brilliant yet accessible communicators in the field. Whether you’re a practitioner eager to sharpen your skills, an academic looking for applied examples, or a leader seeking the next frontier in workforce intelligence, this episode is packed with actionable insights, advanced methodologies, and genuine inspiration.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Music: Verão by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest Alexis Fink, Principal at Propeller Insight and People Analytics & Workforce Strategy Leader at Meta, Microsoft, and Intel! In this wide-ranging conversation, Alexis explains how she’s “flunking retirement” while joyfully redefining her post-corporate season—teaching, advising, mentoring, and shaping the future of work. She reflects on leading premier people analytics teams at tech giants, explains why IO psychology remains the backbone of workforce strategy, and warns against the tyranny of dashboards that keeps analytics groups endlessly building visualizations instead of delivering true business value.

Alexis offers insight into the rise of AI and its impact on job design. She emphasizes breaking work into tasks before automating anything—arguing that rethinking business processes is more powerful than simply rewriting job descriptions. By mapping tasks and evaluating where automation creates efficiency or new possibilities, organizations can achieve meaningful transformation and avoid what she calls the “BS economy”—roles and activities that add little real value and are increasingly exposed by technology.

The discussion spans her experiences hosting Intel’s AI podcast, the thrill of interviewing global CEOs on frontier technology, and lessons from her Fast Company piece on the future of work. Alexis underscores the enduring relevance of workforce planning, job analysis, and sound data governance. She names today’s most advanced people analytics teams—highlighting pioneers like Google for evidence-based HR, Microsoft for engineering-led analytics culture, Meta for blending people analytics with workforce strategy, and other standout organizations such as Walmart, insurance carriers, and pharmaceutical companies whose actuarial rigor produces remarkable insights. Along the way, Alexis and host Cole explore the balance between data science sophistication and human-centered insight, showing how modern people analytics demands both disciplines.

You’ll also hear about the upcoming Leading Edge Consortium, a community-driven event blending organizational psychology, business acumen, and analytics. Alexis describes how curated content, nonprofit roots, and cross-disciplinary panels make it a must-attend for anyone serious about the next era of people analytics. The conference’s structure—designed by instructional experts—ensures sessions that educate, challenge, and inspire rather than simply showcasing flashy dashboards.

Beyond the professional realm, Alexis shares personal stories revealing the depth of her life experiences. She recounts summers restoring a nearly century-old log cabin with her mother, an unexpected teenage job handling cash for a Chicago mob-connected business (“my first lesson in risk management,” she jokes), and her love of mountains, forests, and travel—Machu Picchu remains high on her bucket list. Recently she’s been taking bass guitar lessons, showing her passion for continual learning extends beyond analytics.

Alexis and Cole also dive into scientific writing and the need for clarity over jargon. They stress that impactful research must clearly state why a study is done, how it’s conducted, what is found, and why it matters. This disciplined communication, rooted in IO psychology, ensures evidence-based insights influence executives and drive meaningful action. Alexis notes organizations adopting AI face a seismic shift, and professionals who combine rigorous analytics with human understanding are uniquely positioned to guide the transition.

If you like this episode, explore prior episodes at colenapper.com. This conversation is a masterclass in blending rigorous analytics, human-centered design, and forward-looking strategy to shape the future of work—ethical, evidence-based, and people-first.

Music: Verão by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, AJ Herrmann, Previous Executive Director of Strategic Workforce Planning at Cleveland Clinic! Hosts Cole Napper and Scott Hines welcome AJ for an in-depth conversation that spans covert intelligence work, advanced people analytics, and the human side of workforce strategy.

AJ takes listeners behind the curtain of his extraordinary career. Before entering the private sector, he spent a decade as a CIA intelligence analyst and White House briefer, sharpening the analytic tradecraft that now powers his corporate insights. He explains how long nights preparing the President’s Daily Brief demanded precision, discipline, and the ability to question every assumption—skills that translate directly into strategic decision-making for business leaders. With candor and humor, AJ separates Hollywood myth from reality: no car chases, few gadgets, and a lot of quiet, meticulous work at “the Agency,” where influence comes from rigorous analysis and trust.

Moving from national security to global corporations wasn’t a simple leap. AJ describes how the transition to management consulting and eventually Cleveland Clinic required the same curiosity and persistence that guided him in government service. At the Clinic, he led transformative role redesign projects to confront healthcare staffing shortages. Rather than simply trying to hire more people, AJ and his team deconstructed jobs task by task, challenging long-standing processes and surfacing hidden inefficiencies. He shares vivid examples of how mapping real workforce activity—down to informal hallway conversations and unrecorded duties—revealed opportunities to redistribute tasks, empower employees, and dramatically improve patient care.

Cole and Scott steer the conversation into the future of work and the realities of AI. AJ warns leaders not to fall for vendor hype or “pixie dust” promises. Automation, he argues, changes tasks, not entire jobs overnight. Successful adoption begins with deep understanding of the work itself and the people who perform it. Only then can organizations deploy technology that truly augments human capability. He highlights uniquely human advantages—empathy, creativity, complex problem-solving—that machines cannot replicate and that HR and analytics professionals must champion as they design tomorrow’s organizations.

Throughout the episode, listeners also get to enjoy the lighter side of AJ’s journey. From legendary office pranks involving packing peanuts and a life-size Chewbacca to amusing “confusion matrix” games and a story about wearing a fedora in New Orleans, AJ shows that even a former spy appreciates humor and connection. Cole and Scott join in, reflecting on how curiosity, humility, and a willingness to test boundaries can strengthen any team.

The discussion ultimately paints a comprehensive picture of how modern analytics can drive smarter, more humane business decisions. Whether it’s identifying weak signals in global intelligence or surfacing trends in employee data, AJ demonstrates that rigorous analysis and a commitment to truth are universal tools. He offers practical advice for HR leaders, data scientists, and executives seeking to balance innovation with ethics: challenge every assumption, question your own bias, and remember that culture and trust outlast any technology cycle.

Listeners interested in leadership, workforce strategy, or simply an inspiring career path will find value in every minute of this conversation. AJ’s insights bridge worlds—government and private sector, covert operations and transparent leadership, cutting-edge AI and timeless human connection—showing that the best workforce planning begins with understanding people at the deepest level.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Music: Verão by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with hosts, Cole Napper and Scott Hines where we talk about embarrassing and challenging stories from our interview experiences to assure listeners that they are not alone in facing difficulties! In this lively and very human conversation, Cole and Scott swap hilarious, cringe-worthy, and sometimes painful tales from their job-search journeys, showing that behind every polished résumé are countless moments of failure, awkwardness, and resilience.

The episode kicks off with the hosts admitting that failure is universal and that job hunting often feels isolating—what they call the “Instagram effect,” where everyone else seems to be thriving while you quietly struggle. From there, they dive into a series of unforgettable anecdotes: Scott flying to Los Angeles only to discover his Goodwill suit reeked of must and was covered in deodorant polka dots, and Cole accidentally changing clothes in a company lobby under a security camera. They recall being left behind during a fire drill, enduring marathon interviews without a bathroom break, and even confronting bizarre recruiter questions like “How many windows are in New York City?” or “Do you look after you wipe?”

Beyond the laughs, the discussion highlights real red flags in hiring practices—companies that expect candidates to pay for their own travel, organizations that delay reimbursement for months, and workplaces where culture reveals itself through small but telling symbols. Cole and Scott weave these stories into larger reflections on workplace dynamics, from the psychological toll of ostracism (shown in research to hurt more than harassment) to the importance of structured interviews that reduce bias and personality clashes.

The conversation also explores the intersection of people analytics and technology. They reference cutting-edge studies on AI reliability in hiring, cautioning companies about automated scoring without a human in the loop. They debate the sustainability of the current AI bubble, noting the massive capital expenditures of big tech compared to modest revenues and the hidden compute costs that make profitability elusive. For listeners in HR tech and analytics, these insights resonate far beyond funny interview stories.

Adding depth, the hosts bring in research on personality and career outcomes, such as the long-term Terman study showing that early ambition predicts career success and that job satisfaction by age 30 strongly forecasts midlife fulfillment. They discuss how high conscientiousness correlates with lower frustration in everyday tasks and how loneliness can derail even the most capable people—whether in the wilderness on the TV show Alone or in the modern workplace.

Throughout the episode, Cole and Scott remind us that setbacks and awkward moments are not just inevitable but formative. Their openness about personal missteps—from ill-timed phone calls during interviews to “half-pregnant” presentations where they tried to please everyone—underscores a key lesson: growth often comes from the uncomfortable spaces where plans go sideways. By sharing their own stumbles, they aim to “lower the temperature in the room,” helping job seekers realize they’re not the only ones who have struggled, been ghosted, or bombed an interview.

Whether you’re an HR professional, a data scientist, or anyone navigating career transitions, this episode blends humor with genuine guidance. It celebrates perseverance, self-awareness, and the value of community in the face of setbacks, making it both entertaining and surprisingly motivational.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Music: Verão by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com