Distinctive Christianity

Original title: Parables

In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the thirteenth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Mar. 20-26) covers Matthew 13, Luke 8 and 13 - and is titled "Who Hath Ears, Let Him Hear".

We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!

LDS Sources:

Individuals and Families; Sunday School

The Parable of the Sower (Dallin Oaks)

The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (ed. Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr.)

Resources:

Rule of Faith (Irenaeus)

Westminster Shorter Catechism, ch.'s 23-26

Redemption Accomplished and Applied by John Murray

American Gospel (also here)

Jesus and His World by Craig Evans (also here, here and here)

New Testament History by F.F. Bruce

Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner

Why Does Jesus Tell Stories? (D. A. Carson)

Terry Johnson sermons on Matthew 13 (here, here, and here)

The Coming of the Kingdom by Herman Ridderbos

Stories with Intent by Klyne Snodgrass

Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes; Poet and Peasant and Through Peasant Eyes by Kenneth Bailey (and here)

The Challenge of Jesus' Parables ed. Richard Longenecker

The Mysterious Parable by Madeleine Boucher

The Evidence For Jesus; The Gospel of Matthew (NICNT); The Gospel of Mark (NIGTC) by R. T. France

Matthew (The Expositor's Bible Commentary) by D. A. Carson (also here, here, here, and here)

Mark 1-8 (AYBC) by Joel Marcus

Paul's Two-Age Construction and Apologetics by William Dennison

Grace and Glory by Geerhadus Vos (also here)

What Is Faith? by J. Gresham Machen (also here)

Who Is God? by Richard Bauckham (also here)

Original title: "I will give you"...more work!; Self-reliance or Christ-reliance?

In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the twelfth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Mar. 13-19) covers Matthew 11-12, and Luke 11 - and is titled "I Will Give You Rest".

We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!

Note 1: Scholar R.T. France notes that animal yokes are to be distinguished from human yokes, "which are worn by a single person" - and argues (though some disagree) that "it is more likely the single human yoke which is in view." Later on, he points out that the "beneficial effects of Jesus' yoke derives from the character of the one who offers it." (pp. 449-450; more below.)

LDS Sources:

Matthew 11:28-30; Mark 2:23-3:6 (Sunday School Manual)

Bear Up Their Burdens With Ease (David Bednar)

The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges

A Rational Theology by John A. Widtsoe

Brigham Young: JD 8.206-207

D&C 130:20-21

Note: D&C 130 was also a source of the expectation among LDS leaders that Jesus would come back in around 1890:

• Prophet/President Wilford Woodruff, alone, predicted British LDS would remain on earth "until the coming of Christ" (Jan. 26, 1840); told the LDS in northern Arizona "There will be no United States in the year 1890" (June 28, 1879); stated (by revelation) that the second coming was "nigh at the door" (Jan. 26, 1880); promised LDS in Manti "that thousands of the children...would not die but would live to see the Saviour come" (Aug. 14, 1881); told LDS in St. George that "there were thousands living in [the] mountains at [that] time that would see the son of God come and many would not taste death" (Mar. 20, 1881) - and similar predictions on Dec. 31, 1885, and then on Feb. 16, 1886. And that is just one of the early apostles/prophets! (As a Thief in the Night by Dan Erickson, pp. 83, 187-88, 190-191, 197)

It should be noted that this is the context for the Manifesto on polygamy - esp. in light of Wilford Woodruff (then senior apostle!) even prophesying in the Manti Temple that "we are not going to stop the practice of plural marriage until the coming of the Son of man." (ibid., p.200, also here)

The Vanishing Lamanites (Jason Wallace)

The Mound Builder Myth: Fake History and the Hunt for a "Lost White Race" by Jason Colavito

Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner (esp. ch.'s 5-6,13, and 24)

Temple Made With Hands? (Jason Wallace)

Divinity School Address (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

The American Religion by Harold Bloom

Resources:

Definition of Chalcedon (Sinclair Ferguson)

• The Defense of the Faith (esp. pp.37-39); or Christian Apologetics (esp. pp. 46-51) by Cornelius Van Til
• The Incarnation of God by John Clark and Marcus Johnson (ch. 1)

Saved By Grace Through Faith (White Horse Inn; also here)

What is the Gospel? (Voddie Baucham)

Christianity and Liberalism; The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen

Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here and here)

Another Gospel? by Alisa Childers (also here and here)

The Ten Commandments of Progressive Christianity by Michael Kruger

Matthew (The Expositor's Bible Commentary) by D.A. Carson (also here)

Cultish: Debunking the Cosmic Christ of the New Age (Part 1, Part 2)

Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan

The Gospel of Matthew (NICNT) by R.T. France

Kenneth Bailey on Luke 15.11-24

Note 2: A pattern we have consistently noticed is the stating of a sentence with Jesus mentioned - and then the repeating of the thought in a more honest way without Jesus being mentioned (whether consciously or unconsciously). Here are three examples:

• "'Is the load I am carrying producing the spiritual traction that will enable me to press forward with faith in Christ on the straight and narrow path and avoid getting stuck? Is the load I am carrying creating sufficient spiritual traction so I ultimately can return home to Heavenly Father?'" (Elder Bednar)

Notice: it is the load one is carrying that produces the traction - with apparently not even a desire to try to articulate how faith is any part of that process. The second sentence is more honest in that way, since Bednar doesn't even try to shoehorn "faith in Christ" into the middle of it. His teaching more naturally flows without those three words, anyway.

• "The Lord loves effort, and effort brings rewards. We keep practicing. We are always progressing as long as we are striving to follow the Lord. We keep climbing our personal Mount Sinai. As in times past, our journey does indeed take effort, hard work, and study, but our commitment to progress brings eternal rewards..." (President Joy D. Jones)

Notice: it is ultimately a commitment to "progress" which brings the rewards, and in the third sentence - it is more honest in not trying to shoehorn "follow the Lord" into the sentence. The concept truly doesn't even need those three words, anyway.

• "By cleaving to the Lord of hosts, who is mighty to save, and by cleaving to those holy principles of life and power which he has revealed. The more the floods of iniquity surge up against us, the closer let us cling to those principles, for they will bear us off victoriously to exaltation and glory in this world and in the worlds to come. The same principles have exalted out Father and our God to his present state of glory and power, and they will exalt you and me and all who will abide them in the scale of human existence and eternal progression." (President Daniel H. Wells)

Notice: it is by "cleaving" to "those principles" that one is progressing and exalting. The second subsequent sentences are more honest that way, since those principles are the necessary part of the teaching, without trying to shoehorn "cleaving to the Lord of hosts" into the sentence. The concept truly doesn't even need those six words, anyway, let alone that bit about him being "mighty to save". Save from what? It's by applying the principles that one is exalted.

Note 3: This R.T. France comment deserves to be quoted in full: "'You will find rest for your souls' echoes the Hebrew text of Jer. 6.16..., where it is the reward Yahweh offers those who find and walk in the good way. That Jesus now issues the same promise under his own authority says much for the christology underlying this extraordinary pericope. As in the beatitudes of 5.3-10, there is no doubt an eschatological dimension to the rest which Jesus offers, but that does not mean that the offer has no relevance to the problems encountered by disciples in this life, it is for the present as well as for the future, just as the 'sabbath rest which still remains for the people of God' in Heb. 4.1-11 is nonetheless one which its readers are exhorted to enter 'today'." (p. 450)

Original title: Modern Day Apostles and Prophets?

In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the eleventh lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Mar. 6-12) covers Matthew 9-10, Mark 5, and Luke 9 - and is titled "These Twelve Jesus Sent Forth".

We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!

Note 1: There are two prophet-presidents of the LDS church named Joseph Fielding Smith; one (Sr.) is typically called Joseph F. Smith (1838-1918), and the other (Jr.) is typically called Joseph Fielding Smith (1876-1972). They are father-son, and indeed - were Hyrum Smith's son and grandson, respectively. When the Reed Smoot Hearings are mentioned, it is Joseph F. Smith (or Joseph Fielding Smith, Sr.) who is being referred to.

Note 2: Moses warns against false prophets who lead people after other gods (Deut. 13.1-5; 18.20-22); and Paul warns in Galatians that "even if we or an angel from heaven" preach a different gospel, let him/her be anathema, as well as warning against false apostles, men who preach "another Christ" - saying that "even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (Gal. 1.7, 2 Cor. 11.4,13-14) And of course, the apostle John warns against "false prophets" and commands we "test the spirits". (1John 4.1-3)

Sources:

Seminary Manual (here and here)

Nourishing and Bearing Your Testimony (Gary Stevenson); some of this emphasis, though less emotion-based, came from Joseph Smith himself who taught that: "Salvation cannot come without revelation; it is in vain for anyone to minister without it...Whenever salvation has been administered, it has been by testimony." (TPJS, p. 160)

The Ongoing Restoration (LeGrand Curtis); also here. Does this actually sound like a conservative religion? Don't mistake the mere value for decorum for the conservative mind toward preservation.

D&C 84 (false prophecy about New Jerusalem)

• JD 9.71 (George A. Smith)
• JD 10.344 (George Q. Cannon)
• JD 13. 360,362 (Orson Pratt)

D&C 114 (false prophecy about apostle David W. Patten - who would die Oct. 25, 1838 in the Battle of Crooked River; also see DHC 3.170-175)

D&C 130 (expectation that Jesus would come back in around 1890)

• Prophet/President Wilford Woodruff, alone, predicted British LDS would remain on earth "until the coming of Christ" (Jan. 26, 1840); told the LDS in northern Arizona "There will be no United States in the year 1890" (June 28, 1879); stated (by revelation) that the second coming was "nigh at the door" (Jan. 26, 1880); promised LDS in Manti "that thousands of the children...would not die but would live to see the Saviour come" (Aug. 14, 1881); told LDS in St. George that "there were thousands living in [the] mountains at [that] time that would see the son of God come and many would not taste death" (Mar. 20, 1881) - and similar predictions on Dec. 31, 1885, and then on Feb. 16, 1886. And that is just one of the early apostles/prophets! (As a Thief in the Night by Dan Erickson, pp. 83, 187-88, 190-191, 197)

It should be noted that this is the context for the Manifesto on polygamy - esp. in light of Wilford Woodruff (then senior apostle!) even prophesying in the Manti Temple that "we are not going to stop the practice of plural marriage until the coming of the Son of man." (ibid., p.200, also here)

Joseph Smith's Instructions to the Twelve Apostles (TPJS, pp. 155-163; given on July 2,1839 to those "who were about to depart on their mission to Great Britain".)

Oliver Cowdery Commission

The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges

Jesus the Christ by James Talmage (ch. 16, under Disciples and Apostles, and footnote 2 - where the reason and precedent is given as to why they are addressed as "Elder so-and-so", and not as "Apostle so-and-so"; also, notice Talmage's claim that it was only "knowledge" that was requisite - when Peter, in the Acts passage Talmage himself cites - actually requires "men who have accompanied us during all the time...beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us." The number 12 was actually fixed to those historical twelve, Judas was replaced not for death but for betrayal/apostasy, and the requirement was one of someone being an historical eyewitness to the entire earthly ministry of Jesus. Talmage himself would not qualify, as he himself should've understood from the citations he himself presents.)

1 Nephi 12.9; compare D&C 20.38-44 and D&C 107.26,33

• Also note the role and authority of the seventy in D&C 107, even stating that they are "equal in authority to that of the Twelve" (v.26); Joseph Smith stated that "[t]he Seventies are to be taken from the quorum of Elders, and are not to be High Priests. They are subject to the direction and dictation of the Twelve, who have the keys of the ministry." (TPJS, p. 112) He also stated that the Council of the Seventy was "ordained to that apostleship." (D.H.C. 2.346)

• The Twelve Apostles were/are to be "acknowledged" as "Prophets, Seers, Revelators, and special witnesses to all the nations of the earth." And they were to preach, not preside over churches. (TPJS, p. 109)

• "President Smith proposed the following question: 'What importance is there attached to the calling of the Twelve Apostles, different from the other callings of the Church?...President Joseph Smith, Jun., gave the following decision: They are the Twelve Apostles, who are called to the office of the Traveling High Council, who are to preside over the churches of the Saints, among the Gentiles, and where there is no presidency established; and they are to travel and preach among the Gentiles, until the Lord shall command them to go to the Jews. They are to hold the keys of this ministry, to unlock the door of the Kingdom of heaven unto all nations, and to preach the Gospel to every creature. This is the power, authority, and virtue of their apostleship." (TPJS, p.74) Smith also warned: "Be careful about sending boys to preach the Gospel to the world; if they go let them be accompanied by some one who is able to guide them..." (TPJS, p. 43)

JD 19.230-237 (George Q. Cannon)

JD 10.214; JD 24.236 (Wilford Woodruff) (also see D&C 46.2)

JD 13.292 (George A. Smith)

President-Prophet Joseph F. Smith, recalling the last remarks by President-Prophet Lorenzo Snow, stated, in part: "He had been thinking of late whether we were justified in keeping at home the Apostles and Seventies the way we were now doing. They were really ministers to the nations of the earth; their duties were clearly marked out by the Lord, and until the Gospel was preached thoroughly to the world he doubted whether the Savior would come, as the preaching of the Gospel to the world is certainly part of the work that has to be done before He does come. The duties of the high priests were also clearly marked out, their duties being to labor at home...

…the President said he very much regretted that it should have become necessary for him to call attention of the Apostles to their plain duty, that they should have sensed the situation themselves without rendering it necessary for him to point it out to them. Upon this particular occasion he said there was no doubt in his mind that the time was near at hand when the Savior would make His appearance, and he trembled at the thought that the Apostles were spending so much of their time in matters that should be attended to by others, while so little comparatively was being done in their own line of calling."

It is also interesting to note that Brigham Young, several times, referred to himself as "an apostle of Joseph Smith". (JD 3.212, JD 5.296, 5.332, JD 9.364) This connects to other views sometimes held by LDS/Mormons.

Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner (esp. ch.'s 2, 7, 11, 13, 17); also here and here.

Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera (esp. ch. 3; noting also the interesting point that even Joseph was somewhat ambiguous on the point - stating "The Twelves, and their authority, which is next to the present Presidency", yet that "also the Twelve are not subject to any other than the First Presidency, viz., 'myself,' said the Prophet, 'Sidney Rigdon, and Frederick G. Williams, who are now my Counselors, and where I am not, there is no First Presidency over the Twelve." So, the Twelve is "next to the First Presidency"...unless Joseph is around. TPJS, pp.104-105, 190)

Mormonism and the Magic World View by D. Michael Quinn (esp. pp.142-144, 167, 223-224)

Power from on High: The Development of the Mormon Priesthood by Gregory A. Prince

The Mormon Jesus by John Turner (esp. pp. 74, 80, 83-88, 110-115,143)

"This Is My Doctrine": The Development of Mormon Theology by Charles Harrell (see esp. pp. 79-80, 89)

Dan Vogel (here and here)

An Earnest Plea to LDS (Jason Wallace)

Letters to a Mormon Elder by James White

Simply Put (Barry Cooper)

Article by Nathan Busenitz

Jesus and the Eyewitnesses by Richard Bauckham

Canon Revisited: Establishing the Origins and Authority of the New Testament Canon; The Question of Canon: Challenging the Status Quo in the New Testament Debate by Michael Kruger (also here and here)

John Calvin's Letter to Cardinal Sadoleto

Who Needs the Church? by Terry Johnson

Christianity and Liberalism; The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen

Original title: Miracles

In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the tenth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Feb. 20-26) covers Matthew 8, Mark 2-4, and Luke 7 - and is titled "Thy Faith Hath Saved Thee".

We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!

Correction: Skyler accidentally said "Orson Pratt" when he was actually citing George Q. Cannon (citation below)

LDS Sources:

Joseph Smith: "In knowledge there is power. God has more power than all other beings, because he has greater knowledge; and hence, he knows how to subject all other beings to Him. He has power over all." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.288)

D&C 130; D&C 131; Alma 32; Mormon 9; Moroni 10.24

Miracles; Healing the Sick (Dallin Oaks)

Christ is Risen; Faith in Him Will Move Mountains (Russell Nelson)

Waiting On the Lord; and The Only True God (Jeffrey Holland)

How To Invite Miracles Into Your Life (Michael Dunn)

Gospel Principles (2009), in the chapter on Gifts of the Spirit: “Some have the faith to heal, and others have the faith to be healed. We can all exercise the faith to be healed when we are ill (see D&C 42:48)”

Lectures on Faith (what used to be the doctrine of the Doctrine and Covenants, or D&C; here)

True to the Faith (2004) - under "Faith": "Like all blessings from God, faith is obtained and increased through individual obedience and righteous action. If you desire to enrich your faith to the highest possible degree, you must keep the covenants you have made."

JD 13.33 (Brigham Young)

JD 25.150-151 (George Q. Cannon): "And so, if we understood the law by which Jesus operated when He fed the multitude, it would be as simple to us as the law of electricity is today. If we understood the law by which the sick are healed, and sight restored to the blind...they would be simple to us, as all laws are when they are understood."

John A. Widtsoe, A Rational Theology: As Taught by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:

In the chapter "The Priesthood of the Church" - under the heading "Priesthood Defined": "The Church is composed of eternal, intelligent beings, moving onward in eternal progression, who have accepted God's plan of salvation. It is God's church. The Lord directs the work of all his children on earth, and he naturally gives attention to the Church composed of his obedient children. Nevertheless, although the Lord is the directing intelligence, he is not here in person, nor are other superior beings sent to take direct charge of the work, for that would be contrary to the law that through his free-agency and by self-effort, man on earth must move onward and upward. Therefore, that the earth-work may be done authoritatively God has delegated to man the necessary authority to carry out the provisions of the Plan. Priesthood is the name given this authority. The body of the Priesthood consists of the men who have received this authority and who may act for God, on earth, in matters pertaining to the Church or themselves." (p. 99)

In the chapter "The Authority of the Priesthood" - under the heading "The Foundation of Authority": "The power or right to command or act is authority. In the beginning, man, conscious and in possession of a will, reached out for truth and gained new knowledge. Gradually, as his intelligence grew, he learned to control natural forces as he met them on his way. Knowledge, properly used, became power; and intelligent knowledge is the only true foundation of authority. The more intelligence a man possesses the more authority he may exercise. Hence, 'the glory of God is intelligence,' and 'intelligence is the pathway up to the gods.' This should be clear to all who exercise authority." (p.111)

In a later chapter, under the heading "Miracles": "Man is of limited power; whatever he cannot understand or duplicate may be called miraculous; and only in that sense can miracles be allowed. The miracles of the Savior were accomplished by superior knowledge. Nothing is unnatural. All that has been done man may do as he increases in power. The conception of an intelligence guiding the destinies of men, makes it possible that, in our behalf, wonderful things are often done, transcending our understanding, but which are yet in full and complete harmony with the laws of nature. For ourselves we must discover all of nature that we can. In time of need, when our own knowledge does not suffice, the Master may give His help. Thus, after man has used his full knowledge and failed, the sick may be healed, the sorrowing comforted, or wealth or poverty may came, provided we draw heavily enough upon the unseen forces about us. Help so obtained is not unnatural. A miracle is simply that which we can not fully understand or repeat and at which we therefore marvel." (pp. 167-168)

Folk-Mormon stuff (mingled with some official or semi-official material): here, here, here, here, and here.

Resources:

Of Saving Faith (LBC 1689, ch. 14)

American Gospel

Reformed Dogmatics by Herman Bavinck

Miracles: A Philosophical Analysis by Robert Sloan Lee

Miracles by C.S. Lewis

The God of Miracles by C. John Collins

The Christian Faith; and Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (also here and here)

The Miracles of Jesus by Vern Poythress

An Earnest Plea to Charismatics (Jason Wallace)

Justin Peters' plea to Kenneth Copeland

The Defense of the Faith by Cornelius Van Til

What is Faith? by J. Gresham Machen: "salvation does not depend upon the strength of our faith, it depends upon Christ. When you want assurance of salvation, think not about your faith, but about the Person who is the object of your faith. Faith is not a force that does something, but it is a channel by which something is received...Such is the blessed end of the man even of little faith. Weak faith will not remove mountains, but there is one thing at least that it will do; it will bring a sinner into peace with God. Our salvation does not depend upon the strength of our faith; saving faith is a channel not a force. If you are once really committed to Christ, then despite your subsequent doubts and fears you are His forever." (pp. 250-251)

Simply Put (Barry Cooper; here, here and here)

None Greater by Matthew Barrett

In this episode, Skyler flies solo and goes over a few things that had stood out to him in the curriculum so far (Jan-Feb) - which had not yet made it into the standard episodes.

The table of contents for the Come, Follow Me manual.

Some resources:

Reformed Dogmatics by Geerhardus Vos

Sermon by Pastor Ed Romine on Mark 1

1) Does the Book of Mormon (BOM) teach the Trinity?

No. Joseph Smith went from teaching the heresy of modalism in the BOM to rejecting that very heresy (which he teaches in the BOM!) during the Nauvoo period (as if it was the Trinity) and transitioned into teaching open polytheism. To my knowledge, there is no source in which Joseph Smith communicates an informed understanding of what the Christian doctrine of the Trinity even is - even if only to then reject it. Smith may never have understood the Trinity - but he wasn't shy about teaching that the Trinity is a "monster".

Though not seeming to see that "modalism" is an outright heresy to creedal Christian thought (w/ the unfortunate use of the expression "lay trinitarianism") - the treatment on the issue (as far as the BOM is concerned) by Charles Harrell was helpful, and included the excellent quotation by Dan Vogel. ("This Is My Doctrine": The Development of Mormon Theology, pp. 109-112, 121)

Mosiah 15:2-5, Mosiah 16:15, Alma 11:38-39, Ether 3:14, Ether 4:12

Dan Vogel: "The Book of Mormon therefore violates a major tenet of Trinitarianism by confusing the persons of the Father and Son and by referring to Jesus as the Father."

Joseph Smith - between the 1830 original (first edition) and the 1837 edition changed several passages that originally said "the Eternal Father" to say "the Son of the Eternal Father" - and Mary from "the mother of God" to "mother of the Son of God". (1 Ne 11. 18, 21, 32, 13.40)

Joseph Smith even changed Luke 10:22 to read: "No man knoweth that the Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it." (click footnote b)

In the basics of any articulation of orthodox trinitarianism, the non-negotiables are that 1) God is One - and 2) The Father is not the Son or Holy Spirit, The Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. The Nicene Creed honors the non-negotiable of monotheism, as well as the non-negotiable of the distinctions scripture reveals of the Persons of the Triune God.

Joseph Smith's King Follett Discourse and Sermon in the Grove

Heavenly Mother (here, and here)

Keep in mind, even those who debated and disputed the full-deity of Christ in the early Christian church were doing so thinking they were defending monotheism. Not even the early christian heretics believed God could change at all, let alone was once a man and became god by obedience to self-existent eternal laws - and that all men have that potential just as all the gods before them did. At that time, the reason the full-deity of Christ became an issue (at all) was because of his full humanity, and the changes that occurred by virtue of that human nature. Thus, in some ways, the reasoning of the damnable heretics were still closer to orthodoxy than the overt polytheism of Mormonism/LDSism.

The Forgotten Trinity by James White

Core Christianity by Michael Horton

Simply Trinity by Matthew Barrett

None Greater by Matthew Barrett

The Trinitarian Theology of Cornelius Van Til by Lane Tipton

On the Incarnation by Athanasius (also here)

2) Who is Elias? What is the spirit of Elijah? Malachi's Prophecy and John's Fulfillment -

Though in the Bible Elias and Elijah are the same person, with just a difference in the transliteration of the name - Joseph Smith claimed they were different people, and that they (both) appeared to him. In other words, Elias is simply the Greek form of the OT prophet Elijah's Hebrew name. They are the same person. Yet, according to Joseph Smith, they are two different people who both appeared to him.

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 335-338; D&C 110

Why did Moses, Elias, and Elijah appear in the Kirtland Temple? (Notice the footnotes on Elias)

Not only do LDS see the coming of Elijah as actually fulfilled in the Kirtland Temple (though some, including a Mormon prophet outside the LDS church, dispute this) - but they connect the "spirit of Elijah" to temple work (including vicarious rituals for the dead). One irony about this is that John (who is biblically associated with Elijah and the prophecy of Malachi) is born to parents of a priestly lineage (of Aaron) - and yet, one of the LDS distinctives is that the Aaronic priesthood is unable to do sealings, and thus, John would not have qualified in their system.

The Malachi prophecy that the Bible teaches as fulfilled in John the Baptist preparing the way for The Lord features in a key place in Joseph Smith's story (JSH 1. 38-39, D&C 2:1-2); and the spirit of Elijah is described in ways linked to genealogy and temple work, such as: "Elijah would restore the sealing powers so families could be sealed together. He would also inspire people to be concerned about their ancestors and descendants." (here, here also here)

Yet, Jesus says this prophecy of Elijah/Elias (who are one and the same) was fulfilled in John the Baptist. (Matt. 11. 13, 17.12-13). In fact, the prophecy - including the language about turning the hearts of the fathers to the children and vice versa (language of covenant, and covenant-faithfulness, in context) - is literally stated by the angel Gabriel to Zechariah in Luke 1:13-17 to be about the mission of John, specifically.

Moreover, Luke's presentation of John the Baptist fulfilling prophecy in 3.4-5 is changed by Joseph Smith in order to make these verses about events associated with the second coming. (JST Luke 3, D&C 49.23)

Even the utilization of the ministry of Elijah by Jesus in Luke 4 (where Jesus reads from Isaiah 61) is likewise obfuscated in Mormon teaching - since they have historically treated Isaiah 61 as about liberating spirits from spirit prison (also linked to their temple rituals). (here, D&C 128, D&C 138) Harrell states, relative to this, "Of course, in Mormonism it is more than hearing the gospel that delivers spirits from spirit prison." And "In current LDS discourse on salvation for the dead, Isaiah 61.1-2 is interpreted almost exclusively as having reference to the liberation of spirits from spirit prison, or hell, into paradise once the living perform saving ordinances on their behalf." (p.344)

Mormonism and the Magic World View by D. Michael Quinn

Temple Made With Hands? (Jason Wallace)

"Most modern KJV's follow the revision made by Benjamin Blayney in 1769." (There was the original 1611, the 1612, 1613, 1616, 1629, 1638 - and then in 1769 Cambridge Edition of Benjamin Blayley; The King James Only Controversy by James White, pp. 124-126; also see p. 288, and footnote 13 on that page)

On the LDS version of the KJV - "Leaders took steps in the early 1970s to produce their own edition of the KJV that would fill such desires, completing the effort in 1979...[Their] new Bible boasts seven major features distinguishing it from other editions of the KJV..." (Mormons and the Bible by Philip Barlow, pp. 227-228, also here)

God's Secretaries: The Making of the King James Bible by Adam Nicolson

In the Beginning: The Story of the King James Bible and How it Changed a Nation, a Language, and a Culture by Alister McGrath

3) Jacob's "Ladder", the Heavenly Temple, the Son of Man - and the Gospel of Jesus on the Cross

Kingdom Prologue by Meredith Kline

Who Is God? by Richard Bauckham (also here, and here)

The Jewish Gospels by Daniel Boyarin (also here, and here)

Ziggurats (here, here here)

From pp. 22-23 in Bauckham, on Matthew and the parallel correspondences between the beginning and end of the gospel, and how they should inform each other:

1- Jesus is a ruler: he is king of the Jews (2:1-6) and has authority over all things in heaven and earth (28.18);

2- Jesus is the Messiah for the nations as well as for the Jews (1.1; 2.2-11), and the nations are to be baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (28.19);

3- Jesus is worshipped (2.2,8,11; 28.17);

4- Jesus is "God with us" (1.23; 28.20)

Bauckham then states: "There [1.23] Jesus was said to be 'God with us'; here [28.20] he says, 'I am with you.' God's presence is equated with Jesus's own presence. He speaks as God, giving the assurance of divine presence with God's people that throughout the story of Israel had been given by God. Indeed, careful readers of Genesis might well be reminded of God's promise to Jacob at Bethel ('Behold, I am with you' Gen. 28.15)"

Not only Gen 28.15 linking with Matt. 28.20 (in light of Gen. 48.15-16, identifying that angel with "The God") - but the promise of Gen 28.14 linking with the commission of Matt. 28.19 as well.

4) Faith as a "power" - and prayer a means of "power"?

Matthew 4:1-11, Part 1 (seminary manual for teachers)

"How can these principles help you access the Savior's power to help you and others resist temptation?"

Faith in Him Will Move Mountains (Russell Nelson)

Speaks of faith as a "conduit of power"; and states "It is our faith that unlocks the power of God in our lives." Later: "Faith always increases our access to godly power." Also connects it with "Ordinances unlock the power of God for your life."

Drawing the Power of Jesus Christ into Our Lives (Russell Nelson)

"Faith that motivates us to action gives us more access to His power. We also increase the Savior's power in our lives when we make sacred covenants and keep those covenants with precision. Our covenants bind us to Him and give us godly power."

Sweet Power of Prayer (Russell Nelson)

Notice the tendency to de-personalize, to abstract, and to assume the self is the central purpose and the goal, rather than God. Man is not for the glory of God; rather, the gods are there for the glory of man - as long as we just work hard enough. And Christ (as maybe one of those gods) is a means of "godly power" - rather than the unique God who is both the means (who is personal), and the end (who is personal).

For Mormonism - Jesus is ultimately an "example of faith", rather than the object of our faith (regardless of how subjectively "strong" that faith feels at any given moment); Jesus reveals abstract principles (even secret restored "truths") - rather than being the personal savior of even the thief on the nearby cross.

Mormonism, at it's core, is not taking a real God (biblically-defined, classically-understood) - and confusing His nature by adding more persons to it than scripture reveals and reason would demand. Rather, it is atheism - with imagined evolving gods and men being mirrors of the immanent-mundane, an MLM ladder of eternal progression, and the material universe being a theatre for the self-improvement of truly-autonomous agents. Thus, faith is a power - and prayer, a means of power....and Christ, a means of power.

Compare this to the words of J. Gresham Machen, a creedal-Christian professor and pastor who was a NT scholar committed to the scriptures and the historic Christian faith, in his great book What is Faith?:

"Bring even modern men to a real sense of sin, and despite all the prejudice against the gospel story, they will be led to cry at least: 'Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.' That cry of the distressed man in Mark was not the cry of perfect faith. But through it the man was saved. So it will be today. Even very imperfect and weak faith is sufficient for salvation; salvation does not depend upon the strength of our faith, it depends upon Christ. When you want assurance of salvation, think not about your faith, but about the Person who is the object of your faith. Faith is not a force that does something, but it is a channel by which something is received. Once let that channel be opened, and salvation comes in never to depart. It is a great mistake to suppose that Christians win salvation because they maintain themselves by their own efforts in an attitude of faith. On the contrary, saving faith means putting one's trust once for all in Christ. He will never desert those who are committed to Him, but will keep them safe both in this world and in that which is to come...

Such is the blessed end of the man even of little faith. Weak faith will not remove mountains, but there is one thing at least that it will do; it will bring a sinner into peace with God. Our salvation does not depend upon the strength of our faith; saving faith is a channel not a force. If you are once really committed to Christ, then despite your subsequent doubts and fears you are His forever." (pp. 250-251)

Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin

When Grace Comes Alive: Living through the Lord's Prayer by Terry Johnson

The Lord's Prayer by Wesley Hill

Original title: Magic, Manipulating God(?), and The Lord's Prayer

In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the ninth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Feb. 20-26) covers Matthew 6-7, and is titled "He taught them as one having authority".

We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!

Note: Russell Nelson taught that: "The Lord prefaced His prayer by first asking His followers to avoid 'vain repetitions' and to pray 'after this manner.' Thus, the Lord’s Prayer serves as a pattern to follow and not as a piece to memorize and recite repetitively. The Master simply wants us to pray for God’s help while we strive constantly to resist evil and live righteously." This is why some LDS will even say that the prayer is a "rote incantation" for Christians.

Yet, Nelson doesn't even anticipate the objection about the many prayers, blessings, and ordinances in LDSism in which words must be repeated precisely, or they are considered invalid (including their sacrament prayer) - and none of which actually come from reliable records about the real Jesus. Well, in this episode we dive in to see who actually promotes the worldview of "vain repetition" and "many words"!

Correction: Skyler said "Parley Pratt" when who he meant was Orson Pratt (3x; roughly 51:49, 1:17:10, 1:17:20)

Note: Moses warns against false prophets who lead people after other gods (Deut. 13.1-5); and Paul warns in Galatians that "even if we or an angel from heaven" preach a different gospel, let him/her be anathema, as well as warning against false apostles, men who preach "another Christ" - saying that "even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (Gal. 1.7, 2 Cor. 11.4,13-14) And of course, the apostle John warns against "false prophets" and commands we "test the spirits". (1 John 4.1-3)

LDS Sources:

JSH 1; JST Matthew 6-7

The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges

D&C 76 (also here); 93 (also here); 130 (*85 yrs old - 1890);131, 132

D&C 8 (also here; see footnotes 5,7); D&C 82 (also here), D&C 88

2 Nephi 2, Alma 42.13,22,25; Abraham 3, Abraham 5

John A. Widtsoe (1872-1952) - A Rational Theology

James E. Talmage (1862-1933) - Jesus The Christ, The Articles of Faith

Jesus Christ Chosen as Savior (also here)

Achieving a Celestial Marriage (student manual)

Brigham Young: JD 10:5, JD 2:31 (also cited here), JD 7:2, JD 7:57

JD 10:7 (Daniel H. Wells)

God Is The Gardener (Hugh B. Brown)

The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent (Holland)

LDS Leaders like Russell Nelson will really emphasize that the LDS should only prayer to "Heavenly Father", and may even use the Lord's Prayer as a prooftext for this. Keep in mind, they see the Father and the Son as two distinct beings and persons - i.e. two distinct gods. (They also will minimize early Christians praying to Christ, even on His word in John 14.14, if it is acknowledged at all.) There is also controversy behind the anxiety that most Christians will not be aware of - and that is Mormons/LDS (some of whom are) praying to "Heavenly Mother" (see here and here). Notice also that Nelson speaks of prayer (like he talks about faith) - as a means of "power" and things similar - to "achieve our divine potential". (here, here, here)

Picture of seer stone (here and here)

Source on the temple, and polygamy.

Also note that the verse about "not casting pearls before swine" is often used by LDS to be secretive (even deceptive at times) with those who don't accept and/or understand the rituals, signs, tokens, veils, apron (and other attire) and key words of their sacred temple rituals (done for themselves, and vicariously for the dead.) Some will just be simply sensitive about talking about such things; others will even "lie for the lord" if they feel to when talking to some. (LDS scholars will sometimes cite gnostic texts as precedent for this. Christians have had a long history of responding to such groups and their worldviews, e.g. Irenaeus of Lyons.)

The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 247: "He showed that the power of the Melchisek P'd was to have the power of an 'endless lives.'"

President Heber C. Kimball stated: "You might as well deny Mormonism and turn away as to oppose the plurality of wives. Let the presidency of this Church, and the twelve apostles, and all the authorities unite and say with one voice that they will oppose that doctrine, and the whole of them would be damned." (JD 5.203)

Hugh Nibley, in Old Testament and Related Studies, p. 49: "The Latter-day Saints are the only Bible-oriented people who have always been taught that things were happening long, long before Adam appeared on the scene. They have never appreciated just how revolutionary that idea is. It does away with creatio ex nihilo..."

• "Salvation" (rather, Exaltation/s) by Knowledge - as taught by Joseph Smith: all quotations are from the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (TPJS, edited by Joseph Fielding Smith):

"God has more power than all other beings, because he has greater knowledge." (p. 288); "The principle of knowledge is the principle of salvation...every one that does not obtain knowledge sufficient to be saved will be condemned. The principle of salvation is given us through the knowledge of Jesus Christ." (p.297) "Now for the secret and grand key...knowledge through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the grand key that unlocks the glories and mysteries of the kingdom of heaven." (p.288) "Knowledge saves a man; and in the world of spirits no man can be exalted but by knowledge...If a man has knowledge, he can be saved." (p. 357) Also: "the keys of the kingdom...consist in the key of knowledge". (D&C 128.14)

• Salvation (rather, exaltation/s) via experience:

Jeffrey Holland, in a conference talk, states - in a context of irony (implying the opposite): "In fact, Lord, be careful to keep me from all the experiences that made thee Divine." (here; note also that in this same talk - he uses the term "omniscience" when speaking of God, showing this is not classically or biblically understood. They mean this quantitatively, not qualitatively.) There is precedent in this view as found in Brigham Young. (JD 8.31)

• Salvation (rather, exaltation/s) by obedience (or, "covenant path"):

Russell Nelson said in general conference: "Your commitment to follow the Savior by making covenants with him and then keeping those covenants will open the door to every spiritual blessing and privilege available to men, women, and children everywhere...we're speaking to you from a temple. The end for which each of us strives is to be endowed with power in a house of the Lord, sealed as families, faithful to covenants made in a temple that qualify us for the greatest gift of God - that of eternal life." (here; also see here) Also: 2 Ne 25:23, Moroni 10:32. It is common to hear LDS (general authorities, scholars, and laity alike) speak of "covenants and rituals necessary for salvation" (or something similar). This it integrally tied to LDS claims of being the only church with the (restored) priesthood keys necessary to properly perform these "covenants" and "rituals". (here) Joseph Smith taught that "to get salvation we must not only do some things, but everything which God has commanded." (TPJS, p. 332)

"Lightning out of heaven" (Terryl Givens)

The Kolob Theorem by Lynn Hilton

The First 2,000 Years by W. Cleon Skousen

The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil by H. Verlan Andersen

Eternal Man by Truman Madsen

Temple and Cosmos by Hugh Nibley (also here)

No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie

Mormonism and The Magic World View by D. Michael Quinn

• Fayette Lapham interview with Joseph Smith, Sr. (here) wherein he records "This Joseph Smith, Senior, we soon learned, from his own lips, was a firm believer in witchcraft and other supernatural things; and had brought up his family in the same belief." If a group such as those at the Interpreter would dispute this source, it is interesting to note that they are more than willing to use this same interview if it seems to help a point that they like. (e.g. their publication of an article by Don Bradley). To be clear, we do not think that the context for the BOM is actually ancient, whether among ancient Israel or ancient (white; though some cursed-brown) Native Americans who were supposedly simultaneously practicing the Law of Moses and baptizing in the name of Jesus, who had yet to be born in his humanity. The context, as we see it, was actually Joseph Smith's own time, and the civilization as his own vain imaginings, regardless of his sincerity. (here, here, here, here, here, here)

The Angel and the Sorcerer by Peter Levenda

The Mormon Jesus by John Turner

Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera

The Mormon Hierarchy: Wealth and Corporate Power by D. Michael Quinn (also here)

Standing Apart: Mormon Historical Consciousness and the Concept of Apostasy (edited by Miranda Wilcox and John D. Young)

The Mormon Church On Trial: Transcript of the Reed Smoot Hearings edited by Michael Paulos (also here)

Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner (ch.22,24)

By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri by Charles Larson (also see here, here, here, here, here)

Joseph Smith said: "Paul saw the third heavens, and I more." (TPJS, p. 301) Elder Orson F. Whitney said later: "Both these men [Paul and Joseph Smith] had looked upon the face of Deity. Paul had been 'caught up to the third heaven' [2 Cor 12.2-5], Joseph to the 'seventh heaven' and there 'heard things unlawful to be uttered.' [D&C 76.115] Each was a divinely commissioned preacher of the gospel at the opening of a new dispensation." (Conference Report, October 1912, p. 70; see also his book Elias: An Epic of the Ages)

Compare President Wilford Woodruff and Elder Bruce R. McConkie on the question of eternal progression:

• "If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent and reflecting mind. God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end. It is just so with us. We are in a probation, which is a school of experience." (Wilford Woodruff, JD 6.120)
• "Now may I suggest the list of heresies. Heresy one: There are those who say that God is progressing in knowledge and is learning new truths. This is false - utterly, totally, and completely. There is not one sliver of truth in it." (Bruce R. McConkie; Seven Deadly Heresies; Notice the condemnation of earlier men of higher church-rank then himself - including but not limited to Presidents/Prophets Brigham Young and Wilford Woodruff.)

The Search For God In Ancient Egypt by Jan Assman

Knowledge for the Afterlife: The Egyptian Amduat - A Quest for Immortality by Theodor Abt and Erik Hornung

Myth and Symbol In Ancient Egypt by R.T. Rundle Clark

The Gnostics by David Brakke (also here)

The Nag Hammadi Scriptures (edited by Marvin Meyer)

Resources:

Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen

Matthew: A Mentor Commentary (2 vol.) by Knox Chamblin

When Grace Comes Alive: Living Through the Lord's Prayer by Terry Johnson

Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes by Kenneth Bailey

The Lord's Prayer by Wesley Hill

Who Is God? by Richard Bauckham

Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi (or roughly - "the law of what is prayed is the law of what is believed" and vice versa; see here)

Jesus and His World by Craig Evans

American Gospel: Christ Alone

An Earnest Plea to Charismatics (Jason Wallace)

Justin Peters' Personal Plea to Kenneth Copeland

Justin Peters (here, here, here; also notice that Jesse Duplantis teaches a somewhat similar view of Isaiah 9 as Brigham Young - JD 10:5 and here)

The Bible Among the Myths by John Oswalt

Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (here and here)

Counterfeit Gods by Timothy Keller

The Trinity: An Introduction by Scott Swain

All That Is In God by James Dolezal (also here, here, here, here)

The Trinitarian Theology of Cornelius Van Til by Lane Tipton

Al Mohler sermon on John 9 (here)

Jesus's Sermon on the Mount and His Confrontation with the World: A Study of Matthew 5-10; The Sermon on the Mount: An Evangelical Exposition of Matthew 5-7 by D. A. Carson

Original title: Be Perfect and the Beatitudes

In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the eighth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Feb. 13-19) covers Matthew 5 and Luke 6 - and is titled "Blessed Are Ye".

If you are in the Provo or Salt Lake City area - we invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!

LDS Sources:

Individuals and Families

Be Ye Therefore Perfect - Eventually (Jeffrey Holland)

The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges

The King Follett Discourse (Joseph Smith)

JD 24:259-270 (John Taylor)

JD 24:271 (George Q. Cannon)

D&C 93

D&C 130

Brigham Young: JD 8:206-207, JD 10:5, JD 18:260

John Taylor: JD 11:164, JD 23:176-177

Wilford Woodruff: JD 6:120

Heber C. Kimball: JD 1:355-357, JD 3:108, JD 4:329

Orson Pratt: JD 1:332-333

Erastus Snow: JD 21:23-25

A Rational Theology by John A. Widtsoe

Elias: An Epic of the Ages by Orson F. Whitney

Resources:

When Grace Transforms by Terry Johnson

Who is God?: Key Moments of Biblical Revelation by Richard Bauckham

Jesus's Sermon on the Mount and His Confrontation with the World: A Study of Matthew 5-10; The Sermon on the Mount: An Evangelical Exposition of Matthew 5-7 by D. A. Carson

The Gospel of Matthew (NICNT); Divine Government: God's Kingship in the Gospel of Mark by R.T. France

God's Glory in Salvation through Judgment: A Biblical Theology by James Hamilton, Jr.

WCF ch. 16 (pure motive, right manner, and God-centered goal)

The Person of Jesus by J. Gresham Machen

Christless Christianity by Michael Horton (here and here)

Voddie Baucham (here and here)

Note: The congresswoman's name was Jeanette Rankin. Her reasoning was more based on a general pacifism, as far as I could tell without looking too deeply. However, to be more clear, the point was more aimed at trying to rescue Jesus' teaching from over-familiarity, rather than a blanket endorsement of pacifism, as such. We are in the already-but-not-yet; and although peace should always be the goal, there may be times when fighting is necessary, akin to Jesus' teaching on divorce in this same passage. I try to avoid the extremes of both an under-realized eschatology and an over-realized eschatology.

Just War Theory: e.g. see Augustine's City of God (and here); see the writings of Francisco de Vitoria - and more generally, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization by Thomas Woods (esp. ch.'s 7, 11). On the precedent that Augustine is interacting with - see here. A Reformed thinker often overlooked is Johannes Althusius. (here, here and here.) See also American Awakening by Joshua Mitchell.

On this episode, we interview Pastor Jason Wallace - an OPC Pastor who will have been evangelizing in Utah for 25 years, as of May 2023.

If you are in the Provo or Salt Lake City area - we invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!

Jason's Youtube Channel is Ancient Paths TV

• Temples Made With Hands?

• Sandra Tanner Playlist; also see the indispensable Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner
• An Earnest Plea to Latter-day Saints
• The Vanishing Lamanites
• After Mormonism...Now What?
• After Mormonism...Atheism?
• Interview with Alma Allred
• Interview with Charles Larson (here and here)
• Debate on Homosexuality (See also here)
• LDS, Islam, GayChristian, RomanCatholic
• Hyper-Preterism
• Dispensationalism

Resources:

By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look At the Joseph Smith Papyri by Charles Larson (See also here, and here)

Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen

The Courage To Be Protestant by David Wells

"Mormons Approaching Orthodoxy" by Richard Mouw

The Last Superstition by Edward Feser

Christian Theistic Evidences by Cornelius Van Til

Greg Bahnsen v. Gordon Stein

The Gospel Code by Ben Witherington III

The Apology of Aristides

Destroyer of the gods by Larry Hurtado

Christianity at the Crossroads by Michael Kruger

Josephus

Temple of Presence by Andrea Robinson (Also here and here)

God Dwells Among Us by Gregory Beale and Mitchell Kim

The Temple and the Church's Mission by Gregory Beale

Sandra Tanner (here and here); also see the indispensable Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner

Early Mormonism and the Magic World View by D. Michael Quinn (see especially pp. 226-236)

Symbols in the Wilderness: Early Masonic Survivals in Upstate New York by Joscelyn Godwin

Kolob (Abraham 3)

Temple and Cosmos by Hugh Nibley

Development in the Mormon Temple

Original Title: Marriage and God is Spirit

In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the seventh lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (Feb. 6-12) covers John ch.'s 2-4 and is titled "Ye Must Be Born Again".

If you are in the Provo or Salt Lake City area - we invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!

LDS Sources:

Individuals and Families

Achieving a Celestial Marriage (student manual)

Orson Hyde (JD 4.259f)

King Follett Discourse by Joseph Smith

A Rational Theology by John A. Widtsoe

In These Three I Believe (Gordon B. Hinckley)

JST John 4

D&C 131.7-9

Brad Wilcox Fireside

Joseph Smith: Behind the Mask (Jason Wallace)

Sandra Tanner (here and here); also see Mormonism: Shadow or Reality?, ch. 16.

Conflict In the Quorum by Gary Bergera includes accounts of Joseph Smith not only sending men on missions and then trying to secretly marry their wives - but also Joseph Smith secretly isolating and then marrying even teenage girls (with the promise of exaltations depending on their submission to him) - and of course, behind Emma's back. (Some of the evidence even includes Smith writing the line: "burn this letter as soon as you read it".) More notes below.

Resources:

Westminster Confession of Faith, ch. 2

Reformed Dogmatics by Herman Bavinck

The Gospel Code by Ben Witherington III

The Gospel According to John by D.A. Carson

God, Marriage, and Family: Rebuilding the Biblical Foundation by Andreas Kostenberger and David W. Jones

7 Myths About Singleness by Sam Allberry

Redeeming Singleness by HyoJu Lee

Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin

On the Trinity by Augustine

The Trinitarian Theology of Cornelius Van Til by Lane Tipton

Temples Made With Hands? (Jason Wallace)

On the development of the LDS temple (here)

Temple of Presence by Andrea Robinson (Also here and here)

God Dwells Among Us by Gregory Beale and Mitchell Kim

The Temple and the Church's Mission by Gregory Beale

Additional Notes/Resources:

It should be noted that there is no evidence even from the so-called "gnostic gospels" that Jesus was married, either (whether in history or even in the imagination of later heretics) - contrary to what many may suppose. And the so-called 'Gospel of Jesus' Wife' has now been proved a forgery. What served as supposed evidence for the position when believed authentic is often ignored as evidence against the position when proved a forgery. (here, here, here, here, here and here)

One example of an early mormon leader teaching not only that Jesus was a polygamist - but that he was crucified for polygamy is: "The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in the doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were 'Mormons.'" (Jedediah Griant, JD 1:346 )

Brigham Young also claimed that the Lord was a polygamist. (JD 13:309)

Conflict in the Quorum by Gary Bergera (e.g.):

• During the LDS April general conference in 1875 - apostles Orson Hyde and Orson Pratt (the senior members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles) who were next in line for the church presidency were quietly demoted below John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff. (prologue) "No explanation was offered before or after the voting."(p.2) This power-play by Brigham Young shifted the direction of Mormonism and disproves many current LDS claims to a direct line of priesthood authority back to Smith. Orson Hyde would have replaced Brigham Young as president of the church in 1877 - and would have been followed by Orson Pratt the following year. Instead, it was John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff. (p. 3)

• This book also documents the debates surrounding the re-institution of a First Presidency. A quorum higher than the Quorum of the Twelve was not an obvious thing at the time, as the book documents. (esp. chapter 3, p. 53f)

In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith by Todd Compton (also: here)

• Joseph Smith denied the polygamy, stating publicly in May 1844: "...What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers." (HC 6.411) At the time he made this statement he (secretly) had over 25 plural wives. Now even the LDS church admits that the "exact number of women to whom he was sealed is unknown...Careful estimates put the number between 30 and 40."

Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman (e.g.):

• p.39 "Probably in early 1820"; if you look at footnotes 27, 30, and 34 - he acknowledges the work of Wesley Walters which shows that the revivals of 1824 were likely the background of the "First Vision" account although Smith published in JSH that it was the spring of 1820.
• On footnote 35 of p. 118 (p.588) Bushman states that "Neither Joseph nor any of the other early chroniclers mentioned the event in their histories...Joseph inserted the first reference to Peter, James, and John in a revelation dated August 1830." (And yet, it only gets more problematic the closer one looks. here and here)

Joseph Smith told Alexander Neibaur that he saw Jesus with a light complexion (white skin) and blue eyes (A.N. Journal, May 24,1844). Yes, Jesus is a white man, according to the founding Mormon/LDS prophet. And if the son looks just like the father, then...! This is related to some racial issues in LDS history - but has clearly impacted LDS art to this day, as should be obvious throughout any official sources. Whiteness is also true of Mary in 1 Nephi 11.13-15, who is even claimed by some LDS (e.g.) to actually be from England. Also see Mormonism - Shadow or Reality?, ch. 21.

On Joseph Smith being the Holy Ghost - many have in mind the teachings where Smith said (e.g. KFD) he couldn't tell the congregation who he was. This is then linked with the quote: "Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has." (WPJS, p. 245; also here) This is hinted at in even mormon prophecies of Joseph's part in the last days. Many who believe this will deny it.

Lying For the Lord (also here, here and here)

On this episode, we interview Pastor Jason Wallace - an OPC Pastor who will have been evangelizing in Utah for 25 years, as of May 2023.

If you are in the Provo or Salt Lake City area - we invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!

Jason's Youtube Channel is Ancient Paths TV

• Sandra Tanner Playlist; also see the indispensable Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner
• An Earnest Plea to Latter-day Saints
• Was the Burning in Your Bosom from God?
• Joseph Smith: Behind the Mask
• Interview with Kathleen Kimball Melanakos (book here)
• Debates (e.g. here and here and here and here)

• The Bible vs. Shawn McCraney
• An Earnest Plea to Seventh-day Adventists
• An Earnest Plea to Charismatics
• An Earnest Plea to Muslims
• The Atheist Illusion (and atheism debate)
• The Truth about Calvin and Servetus
• The Church Impotent (Dispensationalism)

Note: To be technically accurate, in the LDS temple endowment ceremony before 1990 - Lucifer (or Satan) used to mention that he would "buy up...popes and priests". Then, there was a scene where Lucifer hires a minister (thus, a "hireling of Satan") who is interviewed to make sure he's been to school - and then, Lucifer has him promote "the orthodox religion" (including a God "without body, parts, or passions") to Adam/Eve. Lucifer tells the minister that he will pay him well for conversions. (here, here, here, here)

Correction: *Goshen*, not Magna. (Though it is technically not in Goshen.)

Resources:

Terry Johnson (here and here)

When Grace Comes Home by Terry Johnson

Speaking the Truth in Love to Mormons by Mark Cares

The Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin

Augustine's Confessions

Amusing Ourselves To Death by Neil Postman (also: here, here, here)

The Courage To Be Protestant by David Wells

My Servants The Prophets by Edward J. Young

Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen

C.S. Lewis's Introduction to On the Incarnation by Athanasius; here's a sample quotation: "Every age has its own outlook. It is specially good at seeing certain truths and specially liable to make certain mistakes. We all, therefore, need the books that will correct the characteristic mistakes of our own period. And that means the old books."

Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther

John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion and Letter to Sadoleto

Dialogue On the Two Natures of Christ by Peter Martyr Vermigli

Reformation Day Lecture; and here (Michael Horton)

Calvin and the Anabaptist Radicals by Willem Balke

War Against the Idols by Carlos Eire

Christianity at the Crossroads by Michael Kruger

Defending Constantine by Peter Leithart

How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization by Thomas Woods

Dominion by Tom Holland

Approaching the Book of Mormon (Bill McKeever)

LDS sources mentioned:

Joseph Smith taught: "Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow -- three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization. "Father, I pray not for the world, but I pray for them which thou hast given me." "Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one as we are." All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God -- he would be a giant or a monster." (Sermon in the Grove) 

JSH 1:20 (cited, with an inaccurate period added, by David Bednar)

2 Nephi 2:25 (See also here and here)

Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet by Ezra Taft Benson, wherein he even states (quoting another GA): "always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.” (Also: Sheri Dew)

All Are Alike Unto God by Bruce R. McConkie (Also: here)

Examples of LDS view of reformers and American founders here, here, here, and here

Brad Wilcox fireside here (40:30); I have asked several protestant ministers of different denominations if they have ever heard of someone doing this, let alone for extra money - and I have found no example of this even being allowed.