Elizabeth Woodson

Kay Daigle

As Christians in a world that doesn’t follow Christ, it’s essential not to let the culture around us form us. God desires his children to become more and more like Jesus. Too often, however, we fail to be aware of the voices around us that are forming us instead. Elizabeth Woodson shares from her latest book, calling us to resist the culture’s formation rather than the Spirit’s.

Elizabeth not only helps us recognize common ways we are being formed by culture, she also provides the antidote. She suggests specific spiritual practices to implement. Don’t miss this important conversation.

This episode is available on video if you prefer.

00:21 Introductions

Kay >> Hi. I’m Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. Welcome to our podcast today. I’m very excited to welcome Elizabeth Woodson, who has been with us before.

Welcome, Elizabeth. We’re so glad that you’re here.

Elizabeth >> Thanks for having me, Kay. It’s great to be here.

Kay >> Oh, you’re welcome. Elizabeth is a Bible teacher, an author and a speaker. She has a degree from Dallas Seminary in Christian Education. And she has a new book out, and we’re going to be talking about it today. The name of the book is Habits of Resistance. And the subtitle is Seven Ways You’re Being Formed by Culture and Gospel Practices to Help You Push Back. So right there, hopefully the title will just pull people in, Elizabeth, because I think it’s a great title and it helps us understand what’s in the book.

So it’s Habits of Resistance. What are you suggesting that we need to resist?

Elizabeth >> That is definitely an interesting title. We wanted to be able to draw people in with something that would make them ask that question. And so what we are wanting people to resist, or what I hope for people to resist, is being formed by the culture.

And so it’s the idea that our discipleship is not neutral, right? So being disciples isn’t just being disciples of Jesus. We are disciples of whoever we follow. And unfortunately, I think we’re in a space where maybe some of us have drifted from the path of Jesus more than we like to admit. And the fruit of our lives reflect that we’re being formed by the culture. And so the encouragement through the book is to be aware of that, but also to practice these spiritual disciplines that help us resist that formation current that the culture is trying to keep us in.

Kay >> Well, I certainly see the need for that. What did you see in us in the church that motivated you to write this particular book?

Elizabeth >> Yeah. I saw things pop up in the place where a good portion of us like to hang out, which is social media, the gathering spaces that we have online. And so it’s probably no surprise to the people who are listening that sometimes the comments sections on social media can be a bit of a dumpster fire even between Christians as we are disagreeing about things that we have difference of opinion. But in doing so, we dishonor one another as image bearers.

And also is maybe just the subtle habits of what we’re purchasing! And so I think there are aspects of overconsumption that we’re just being pushed things and maybe our houses are full of too many things. Mine too, Kay, the Amazon boxes are showing up at my door, but the question is what is motivating us to push that buy button? And are we stewards of what God has given us?

And so there’s a couple other things I could list, but it’s really the fruit of how we’re showing up. And so we know spiritual fruit. We see it outlined in Galatians 5— that peace, love, joy, patience, self-control, gentleness, kindness, all of these things. And is that the witness we’re having online or is it something else?

But it’s not just what I saw in other people, Kay, it’s what I saw myself. And so there was a season of my life just experienced really a really person I loved a lot went to be with the Lord. And so that grief led me into a season of busyness and achievement. I’m trying to deal with my pain through just having a busier schedule and not leaning into the comfort that comes from God.

And so it’s even in my personal conversations of God making me aware that— are you dealing with your life in a way that aligns with how I tell you to deal with your life? Or are you doing something else? And all of that is we are doing what the culture puts before us and not necessarily what we see in Scripture.

Kay >> And it happens to all of us doesn’t it from time to time. We just sort of fall away from some of the things that we know are right and we begin being influenced by what’s around us and what we’re listening to and what we’re reading. What we’re consuming. It’s so easy to do. It’s easy to get angry online because everybody else is angry.

Elizabeth >> Yeah.

Kay >> So I think this is a very needed book. I’m thrilled that you wrote it. Each chapter of your book describes something we seek that is better in Christ than what the culture gives us. And we can’t go through all of those chapters in this short podcast. So I would certainly encourage you out there to read the book because there will be many more chapters than those we talk about. But I did want to talk about a couple of them.

And I thought we might really start with the fact that right now many people I talk to are struggling to find peace. They’re telling me that they’re upset all the time, that they’re fearful. And I feel that, too, because our world really appears to be out of control right now. And we sense that, and we don’t know what to do about it. And so it makes us angry or it makes us anxious, fearful of the future. We just don’t know what to do about it.

And your first chapter is about a better peace that Christ gives us. So you describe our efforts to seek peace through control. Would you explain what that looks like?

Elizabeth >> Yeah, I think a lot of us are really resourceful. And so our feelings of that life is a little scattered. We feel the lack of peace within our person? We see a lot of things going around us that we feel like we don’t have the agency to control or to fix. But we still want to try to get rid of the feeling of a lack of peace, to find peace.

And so one of the ways, I think in the West that we believe to be really effective which I don’t think is as effective, is information. And so the more information I have, the more security I have. And so whether that is information through AI it is ChatGPT it is Gemini or Claude or that is just consuming a lot of information on social media. Studies show that our ability to be empathetic has decreased because we just see so many things that there’s a limitation to how much we can consume as humans.

And I think that we are reaching and exceeding that. But we felt like as long as I have the information, maybe I can create a plan, or maybe this information gives me a prediction of what might come in the future.

And because I have that knowledge, then I feel secure and safe. And that’s where we try to get peace from. But the thing is, sometimes the information we get isn’t true. It isn’t the full picture. It can change. There are limitations to that. What the Scriptures point us towards is where we place our hope is—not the information but wisdom.

And there’s only one for whom the Christian wisdom comes from, and that is Jesus. But it’s just so tempting because we have all of this access around us and we’re being told the more you have, the better it will be. You have the ability to control your situation, trust in yourself, and we are just limited. There’s only so much we can do. And eventually we kind of hit the wall in our capacity to try to hold all the plates to keep them spinning and the plates start to fall.

And what that points us back to is, oh, I need to be connected and abide in the one who has in some sense an unlimited wingspan that he can capture and control all things. And it is by being connected to him that I’m able to make it not just what I can grab or reach for on my own.

Kay >> And that’s just so true. I mean, I feel like the more I consume of social media or something like that, it really doesn’t help me control anything and it doesn’t give me peace, that’s for sure. It just makes me more anxious, actually.

You go into the idea here of something that’s going on in our culture manifesting. And I’d never really heard of this until I read your book, and I really appreciated it.

Would you talk about that? What does that mean? What does the word manifest mean? And then what is that looking like in our culture?

Elizabeth >> Yeah, manifest is kind of a word that I believe has been popularized in the recent past few years, maybe past 20 years or so. But to me it’s a reinvention of the power of positive thinking. And so which would be familiar to many of your listeners. And so for me that is I can control what’s happening in my life just by putting in some people’s language, good energy out into the universe, right?

So I’m going to create a plan. I’m going to think positively. I’m going to surround myself with things that will help me get to said plan. And when it happens then what I will say is, Oh, I’ve manifested this.

And the reality is there’s nothing wrong, Kay, with creating a plan. There’s nothing wrong with being intentional about speaking the things that are true and right and beautiful about the world and about life.

I would not be surprised if someone who has a more positive disposition tends to have more successful things happen than someone who has a negative disposition. But the thing is, we are not fully in control of what happens. And so when people say that they manifested things, what I share in the book is they say,” I manifested this successful business”, but what they leave out is the advantages that they might have had because of their network or because of the wealth that they brought in before they quit their nine to five.

It gives you this belief that all you need to do is work hard, that good things come to those who work hard. And with the Christian knows is that’s just not the full truth, that the things that come to us are by grace and by God’s blessing. And so it doesn’t mean we don’t plan. It doesn’t mean we don’t speak what’s true to ourselves.

But what it does mean is anything that comes our way is ultimately not because we just worked hard. It’s because of the grace of God. And so I think that manifesting gives people a false sense of control when in reality it’s still not enough to find the peace that they’re hoping for.

Kay >> I certainly agree with that, and I’m happy to know about this manifesting thing. I guess maybe I had just never heard that terminology to the positive thinking, or if I just think about it enough, I will succeed. If I think well enough of myself, you know, I can do this, that kind of thing.

How does God’s way counter that and provide a better peace for people?

Elizabeth >> Yeah, I think part of it is you do have these New Age spiritual things that people are turning to. And so again, it’s the resourcefulness it could be manifesting. It’s also crystals that I have seen people use. And sometimes it feels to a younger generation because this tangible thing gives me power.

I think I want to be compassionate in the book of what gap people are trying to fill by. And so people long to have connection with something greater than themselves, to be able to find this desire again, whether it’s manifesting or some other new a spiritual reality. The universe, in the words of one of my friends, does not have ears. It cannot hear you, but we know one who does. And the Scriptures point to that Jesus cares, and he is the one that helps us.

And so I think about Jesus in the boat with the disciples. And there is a storm that is raging all around them and he is asleep, and they are losing their minds. They wake him up and he calms the winds and the waves. And they are quickly reminded that the reason he is living in peace is because he is in full control of all things, even the things that we don’t think about.

So the Scriptures keep bringing us back. I think of Jesus’ words in John 15 “to abide.” That unless we abide in him (He is the vine; we are the branches), we can’t do anything. And so, the one who does have the ability to change my situation. To do the miracle. To what I like to say open doors that don’t have handles on the outside. Right? It’s the opportunity or connection that you couldn’t even have dreamed of and the Lord just brings your way. That’s because he controls all things. So come back to him, right?

Whatever we do that he is a starting place. He is who we root ourselves in. And it is from his wisdom and guidance that we are able to move forward. It’s not just hard work, it’s the grace of God. Doesn’t mean we don’t work hard, but that our hope is ultimately in what he can gain for us and not what we can do for ourselves.

Kay >> Right. Well, in each chapter at the end of each chapter, you suggest a spiritual habit that will help us form resistance to those ways of the world that are tugging at us constantly. What is the habit of resistance that brings peace?

Elizabeth >> The habit of resistance that brings peace is prayer. And what’s interesting is the habits that I present in the book aren’t anything new. They’re things that Christians have been doing for centuries. I think it’s because they knew the formative power of them. And prayer reminds us of many things, but one—that we’re limited and God is limitless. I think about the words that Jesus speaks in Matthew 6, in the Lord’s Prayer, of “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done.”

It’s He whom we start with, he is the one that gives us our daily bread. He is the one that protects us from temptation. He is the one that helps us forgive one another so that we might receive his forgiveness but it is prayer and that the Holy Spirit shows up and something dynamic happens. And so it’s staying tethered to God through that consistent conversation.

That reminds us of the bigness of our God and what we have access to through him.

Kay >> Yeah, I love that. Well, the next one of your topics that I wanted to talk about, I feel like Christians are commonly falling into this problem of their search for identity. And they are really often out there finding their identity in just the wrong things you know. So what are some common identities that you feel like we cling to even as believers?

Elizabeth >> Yeah. I think when it comes to identity, where we find our value and worth, sense of significance from, it’s not that can just be what we produce. And so it is whether it’s the business, it is being an influencer online and maybe it’s not what you produce, it’s what your children produce or what your husband produces. It’s our job, it’s our careers, it’s our education.

And so we are just big achievers and we find a lot of value and significance in what we’re able to achieve. And the way you can know is if you find your value in something is thinking about what would happen if it was taken away. If you no longer had that job, if your kids were no longer in the picture perfect and making every mark that made you say, oh, my kids are at the top of the class or they’re the top athlete, how would things go, then?

And we start to see how I would feel like I don’t have as much to contribute or as valuable to this community. Or maybe I feel like I’m not treated as well. But I think productivity and achievement is a big one.

I think for us as Christians, it’s also in our appearance. I think this is one for women that women constantly struggle with, have struggled with for a generation. And so the way we look and the temptations around whether it is body image is weight and size. It is conversations about plastic surgery all of that. What the images we see placed before us of people again on social media, who our culture would consider beautiful.

And so how we may or may not measure up against that. We feel this pressure to whether it is the face creams, it is the hair treatments, it’s the clothes we buy. Again, some of the stuff is really subtle. But what we see as, oh, those people look really happy and I want to be happy too. And so I’m going to do what they do.

And we find ourselves maybe in a space of trying to achieve something through our appearance that maybe is not lining up with what we claim to believe as Christians. So kind of appearance and achievement are two I think that pop up at the top of the list, but there’s definitely other ones that are included in there too.

Kay >> Right? Where should our identity be found.

Elizabeth >> Our identity is found in the fact that we are made in the image of God. And so I still marvel at this, Kay, that God in his creation of humans, created us in such a way that we represent him, that people get to understand what he is like simply by interacting with us. Now, we know our ability to do this is made more difficult by sin. Jesus shows us how to image Christ perfectly, but that we have inherent dignity and worth simply because we are made in the image of God.

And it is something we did not give ourselves. And so therefore it’s not something that we can take away the things with the places we find value in our world. Are things we have to earn. And so when we stop earning them that, we start to see things taken away our place, again our sense of significance of self-worth.

But the Lord never does that to us. And so I think there’s a lot of beauty in how we’ve been created and how that should give us confidence, regardless of whether we’re meeting the mark of whatever affinity group that we want to belong to.

Kay >> Yeah.

So what habit of resistance should we follow in order to counter these false identities?

Elizabeth >> Yeah, for this one, I think it was an interesting one for me to be able to include, but it is the church it is being a part of the community of God. And the language that we use to talk about Christians in the New Testament is family.

And so what would it be like? And I think especially for our kids, as they think about belonging and you think about bullying, you think about identity issues among our children.

What would it be like if they showed up to youth group and they showed up and had friends who cared for them? They had leaders who were their big sister and big brothers in Christ? And regardless of whatever is happening in the world around them, when they came to this space, they in some sense are coming home.

And so I think that is magnified for us as adults that when we walk through that door, that we agree to that, that we are welcome, that we find a place of “Man, these are my people and they know me and when life is going well, they’re going to love me.”

And when I’m a little struggling, they’re going to love me too, because they are mirroring the love that we receive from Christ. And so I think there’s a powerful opportunity for us when it comes to the church of the belonging we can offer people that contrast to the conditional belonging that’s offered by the world.

Kay >> And that doesn’t work if you’re just watching television.

Elizabeth >> Yes.

Kay >> Or you have it on your computer streaming your church services. It requires actually being present with people, doesn’t it?

Elizabeth >> It does. Present, showing up, serving, making that step to join the small group and to press through when it gets a little difficult, messy or awkward, right? Because we’re imperfect humans trying to live out what we see in Scripture together. But it is that the screen limits what we’re able to do as embodied humans, and that we would show up together and see the beauty that comes from just being in the same place with one another.

Kay >> Yeah. Yeah, it really does. Well, the third topic I’d like for you to talk about is the idea of a better justice in Christ. What is the culture teaching us about justice? What ideas are we falling for?

Elizabeth >> Yeah, I think the big one is cancel culture. And so we just get rid of people. And if people do not meet our expectations. I will say from the front, some there are many times that relationships get really complicated in ways that are painful and messy.

And what I believe is a culture is not encouraging us to lean in. It’s not encouraging us to forgive. It’s not encouraging us to have a conversation. It is encouraging you to block someone and move on with your life. And that’s just not the way of the gospel.

We have received grace from the Lord that we do not deserve that he has forgiven us of things that have eternal consequence and so that should motivate us to lean in to the space of forgiveness and reconciliation for our relationships here on Earth.

And so in the book, I wanted to lean into sometimes we can look at the big things that are happening in our world, and those tend to be other people’s problems because other people have the agency to fix them. But we have the agency to fix our relationship with our neighbor. For some of us, it is our literal neighbor that we are not getting along with, but it is our relationships in the church, relationships in our family, our friends.

And instead of cutting people off, protecting our peace, marking them as toxic and moving away or ghost or quiet-quitting our relationships, we just start quietly showing up less that we’ll be courageous enough to lean in again in the way that Jesus has modeled in Matthew 18. And have those difficult conversations and movements forward towards forgiveness and reconciliation.

Kay >> Those are hard things to do. But if we want to be like Jesus, everything you just described is exactly what he was.

Elizabeth >> Yeah.

Kay >> What he is, you know.

So what habit of resistance helps us to counter those messages about, you know, shutting people off and tearing up relationships and all those kinds of things.

Elizabeth >> Yeah. The habit, I think is really powerful is the habit of confession. And so both to God and to trusted community that we confess the moments in which we sin, the moments in which we need grace and receive the forgiveness of the people around us if it is a sin that we have done against them and received the forgiveness of God.

And so I think what that does is that remind us we need grace. That reminds us afresh that we are broken people and we need people to extend to us grace. Paul Tripp, in several of his books I found, has this really powerful quote about people who understand how much they need grace are people who dish it out a lot to others, and it just is an acquaintance of it.

And so as kind of this evangelical Baptist space I live in, sometimes confession is something that is connected to the traditions of our high church brothers and sisters. But I think it’s something that we need to recapture because we need to be reminded of how much we receive from God and therefore what we are supposed to dish out to other people.

And again, it does not mean there are not consequences. It does not mean boundaries are not wise. But what it does mean is that maybe we have a little bit more spiritual energy of sorts to lean into those hard places because we remember how much God is leaning for us too.

Kay >> Yes. And I totally agree this and I just— many churches have emphasized that you’re already forgiven and have gotten away from suggesting that you really need to look inside and actually repent and confess these things before the Lord. So, you know, I think this takes a little work because we’re out of the habit of doing that.

The church that I’m in now, we do have corporate prayer from the front. And there’s always some confession in there. And I just appreciate that a whole lot. I think it really makes a difference because you’re hearing it at least once a week. You’re hearing that you need to confess before the Lord.

Elizabeth >> Yeah.

Kay >> Lean on his grace.

Well, there’s so many other good chapters here, Elizabeth. So I just encourage all of you out there to buy her book. And where can they buy your book? You said something about Amazon earlier.

Elizabeth >> It’s available on Amazon. It’s also available on Lifeway.com. And so those are the two main places I encourage people to go.

Kay >> Well, thank you so much for being part of our conversation today.

And for those of you out there, we do have other resources to help us live in a godly way on BeyondOrdinaryWomen.org. And I just encourage you to go to our website. Go to the pulldown menu at the top under Resources and go down to Godly Living. You can watch or listen to via podcast a number of resources that we have that will help you in some of these areas. We talk about prayer a lot in there. Just other ways to live the way that God wants us to live.

So thank you, Elizabeth. I think you have hit on something that we need right now in our culture. And I appreciate your spending the time to write the book and to talk to us about it.

Elizabeth >> Definitely. So enjoyed our conversation.

Kay >> Okay. And for all of you out there, we’ll hope to see you again soon.