By Diana Butler Bass, Kristin Du Mez, Robert P. Jones, and Jemar Tisby
Welcome to "The Convocation Unscripted," a free-wheeling conversation between Diana Butler Bass, Kristin Du Mez, Robert P. Jones, and Jemar Tisby. We are each scholars (three historians and one soc
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The podcast currently has 11 episodes available.
In this episode of The Convocation Unscripted, Kristin Du Mez sits in the host chair for a conversation with Diana Butler Bass, Jemar Tisby, and Robert P. Jones. We reflect on the recent vice presidential debate, possibly the last debate of the election season. Beyond the performances, we talk about what the debate revealed about the deeper stakes for democracy: outright lies in a post-truth political world, Vance’s refusal to say Trump lost the 2020 election and his admission that he would not have protected the Constitution the way Mike Pence did in 2021, and the dangers of a “normal” sounding debate in these abnormal times. We wrapped the session with a conversation about the connections between the white evangelical “theo bros” and Christian nationalist vision of Project 2025. The team also announced the first two stops on The Convocation Unscripted’s “Faith and Democracy Tour,” inviting listeners to join us in person at First Baptist Church in Greensboro, NC on October 13th at 6pm ET and Dayspring United Methodist Church in Tempe, AZ on October 20th at 5pm MST. Links to register for those events can be found on the Convocation Unscripted substack home page.
In this special episode of the Convocation Unscripted, we record a live in-person conversation from Washington, DC. The four of us came to town to participate in “A Test of Faith: A Summit to Defend Democracy,” which was organized by Rev. Jim Wallis, Director of the Center for Faith and Justice at Georgetown University. The summit included the unveiling of a new statement presenting a theologically centered Christian defense of Democracy and a rich set of panel discussions. Kristin Du Mez kicks off the conversation, describing her experience as one of the drafters of the statement. Jemar Tisby and Robby Jones talk about the problematic term “polarization,” which implies a “both-sidesism” that distorts the moral nature of the choices we are facing in our contemporary politics. As Jemar often notes, “Justice takes sides.” Diana Butler Bass talks about the politeness and niceness pervading particularly white mainline Protestant churches that prevents Christians from calling out injustice and argues that confrontation, done rightly, can be an act of deep Christian kindness. Finally, Kristin Du Mez rounds out the conversation by giving us a preview of her new documentary short film, “For Our Daughters,” which discusses the sexual abuse scandal in white evangelical denominations. This special in-person episode covers a lot of other ground as well, including anti-semitic statements Trump made at a conference to fight anti-semitism and the disturbing racist and misogynistic comments made by Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson that were recently uncovered by CNN. The Convocation Unscripted team would like to say a heartfelt "thank you" to Jesse Dollemore and Brittany Page of the “I Doubt It” podcast for the generous use of their studio and for editing assistance for this episode. - The Convocation Unscripted [S1E10]
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
Diana Butler Bass hosts this “grab bag” episode with Jemar Tisby, Robert P. Jones, and Kristin Du Mez. Jemar talks about his new book, "The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance,” which was just published this week. And Robby gives a preview of his analysis of Christian nationalism in the new Afterword in the paperback edition of "The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future,” which will be published next week. We also talk about Trump’s awkward flip-flops on abortion--which are anything but “pro-life”--but which seem not to matter at all to his white Christian Right base. In the second half of the show, we tackle the disintegration of the “church growth” industry in the wake of the rapid decline of white evangelicals over the past two decades, delve into a 2016 interview J.D. Vance gave about his conversion from evangelicalism to high-brow Catholicism, and flag the growing evidence of Russian money stoking some of the loudest online voices on the right.
Christian Right leaders still regularly accuse Democrats of being godless liberals, or some similar phrase. Trump has claimed that no true Christian should be able to vote for a Democrat. But as Kristin Du Mez, who was on the ground at the Democratic National Convention, reports, Christianity and other religions are alive and well among not only the rank and file but the high profile speakers in Chicago this week. Similarly, Jemar Tisby talks about his experience as part of the “Evangelicals for Harris” group, which has been the target of attacks by the Christian Right merely because of its existence. Robert P. Jones also brought in the numbers, emphasizing—despite the Republican stereotypes--that 70% of Democrats identify with some religious tradition. As Jones notes, when Republican activists say the Democratic Party is devoid of Christians, what they really mean is that they are lacking white evangelical Protestant Christians (who only make up 4% of Democrats vs. 30% of Republicans). Jemar, Kristin, and Robby rounded out the show by talking about the different way religion functioned at the Republican vs. Democratic national conventions—weaponized at the former to draw us/them boundaries versus an inclusive image at the latter, emphasizing America as a place where all belong.
The Convocation Unscripted [S1E8]
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
What is the significance of Tim Walz's Midwestern Lutheran Dad Vibe for the 2024 presidential election? In this episode, we talk about what it means to be Lutheran and how Walz upends the old culture war trope of "God, gays, and guns" (he's authentically religious, has long supported LGBTQ+ rights, and both served in the military and is an avid hunter). Together with Kamala Harris's mixed-race identity, interfaith marriage, and blended family, the Harris-Walz ticket promises to redraw the traditional cultural and political fault lines (exhibit 1: A Harris-Walz version of his trademark camo hat has already sold over 25,000 units). Perhaps more importantly, compared to the gilded and testosterone infused Trump-Vance ticket, the democratic duos' identities more closely reflects the beautiful messiness of most everyday Americans' lives.
Follow:
The Convocation - convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones - robertpjones.substack.com
Diana Butler Bass - dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez - kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby - JemarTisby.Substack.com
The Convocation Unscripted [S1E7]
The last two weeks have been head spinning: the attempted assassination of Donald Trump, the Republican National Convention, and Joe Biden passing the torch to Kamala Harris. We opened the conversation today by holding space for Sonya Massey, the African American woman who called the police for help but was senselessly and callously killed by a white officer in her own home in Springfield, Illinois. We also talked about the vibe at the Republican National Convention, and how its carnivalesque atmosphere (e.g., ex-professional wrestler Hulk Hogan introducing Donald Trump), with its mix of spectacle and transgression, undermined the norms and civic virtues that are important to a healthy democracy. Finally, we talked about the example of selflessness and patriotism Joe Biden exhibited in stepping down to allow Harris to rise.
The Convocation Unscripted [S1E6]
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
The State Superintendent of Oklahoma announced a plan to overhaul the social studies curriculum in the state. He named some members of the Executive Review Committee which included: David Barton, Dennis Prager, Kevin Roberts (president of the Heritage Foundation), and Steve Deace. These men are not committed to historical truth-telling as much as propagandists pushing the idea of a “Christian America.”
We also discuss Project 2025. It’s finally hitting the mainstream, even though we and others have been warning about it for far longer. What is it, and why does it pose a threat long before and after the November 2024 election?
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
The Convocation Unscripted [S1E5]
Late on the evening of June 27, 2024, we came together to discuss the first 2024 presidential debate between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. In this episode, Jemar Tisby, Kristin Du Mez, and Robert P. Jones talk about this train wreck of a debate (Diana Butler Bass is on vacation). While Biden clearly lost the debate, the real loser was democracy and the America people as Trump filled the airwaves with unchecked lies and hateful rhetoric dehumanizing immigrants. We may have just witnessed the last presidential debate in modern American politics.
The Convocation Unscripted [S1E4]
Many of us grew up singing the old time hymn "May the Circle Be Unbroken," a song about connection and continuity. But today many denominations seem to be preoccupied with shrinking the circle. In these increasingly narrow places, curiosity is extinguished, complexity is anathema, and dissent from orthodoxy is suppressed.
This week at @The_Convocation Unscripted, Diana Butler Bass co-hosts a conversation with Jemar Tisby, Robert P. Jones, and Kristin Du Mez about the bewildering and painful experience so many have had when a congregation or denomination declares there is no longer any place for them because of their beliefs or identity—or even their questions. We talk about our own reasons for staying, the challenging but rewarding journey through the wilderness after leaving, and the possibilities of finding another spiritual home.
The Convocation Unscripted [S1E3]
One hundred and thirty thousand dollars. Two days of deliberation. Thirty-four utterances of “Guilty!” Backed unanimously by twelve ordinary citizens sitting on the jury. May 30, 2024, will forever be a day that marked a new era in American history, when Donald J. Trump became the first former president to receive a felony conviction.
But what does it all mean:
*For our country as a whole?
*For the political party who is poised to coronate Trump as their candidate just four days after his sentencing?
*And for Trump’s white Christian supporters who in the not so distant past crowed about their integrity as “values voters”?
Join us for a special edition of our new podcast “The Convocation Unscripted,” where Jemar Tisby, Kristin Du Mez, Robert P. Jones, and Diana Butler Bass talk about this historic moment and its implications for the presidential election and the future.
The Convocation Unscripted [S1E2]
The podcast currently has 11 episodes available.