The Convocation Unscripted

By Diana Butler Bass, Kristin Du Mez, Robert P. Jones, and Jemar Tisby

Welcome to "The Convocation Unscripted," a free-wheeling conversation between Diana Butler Bass, Kristin Du Mez, Robert P. Jones, and Jemar Tisby. We are each scholars (three historians and one soc

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FAQs about The Convocation Unscripted:

How many episodes does The Convocation Unscripted have?

The podcast currently has 31 episodes available.

The Convocation Unscripted episodes:

April 18, 2025 The Crucifixion of Jesus and our Political Moment
This week Jews are observing the eight days of Passover, while Christians are observing Holy Week leading up to Easter Sunday. In this episode, The Convocation Unscripted team (minus Jemar who is on the road) discuss the parallels between the crucifixion of Jesus and the current political moment, particularly the abduction and disappearance of Kilmar Abrega Garcia without due process. We express concern about the lack of action from Congress resisting Trump’s attacks on the rule of law and democratic norms and the need to move beyond partisanship to save our democracy. On the Democratic side of the aisle, we express frustration that most have been reluctant to act beyond the normal expectations of their office; but we give thankful shout outs to senators Cory Booker, Chris Van Holland, AOC, Bernie Sanders for their actions. On the Republican side, we acknowledge and appreciate Sen. Lisa Murkowski’s recent confession of fear for her own safety, but we also note that if just four sitting Republican senators would even temporarily side with the 45 Democratic and 2 Independent senators, they could stop the worst of Trump’s actions and halt our nation’s slide into fascism.

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44min
April 11, 2025 As Trump Wrecks the Economy and the Government Bans Books, the Importance of Standing Up
The Convocation Unscripted team kicked off this episode by talking about our encouraging experiences from the road, where we’re feeling the energy building to resist the attacks on our democracy. Jemar spoke at a conference in DC sponsored by Americans United for the Separation of Church and State and visited elected officials at the US Capitol to encourage them to stand up for religious freedom. Kristin spoke to a rowdy (in a “good trouble” way) audience at St. Mary’s College in Indiana and is preparing for an upcoming “Free to Be Faithful” event in Grand Rapids, sponsored by by the Institute for Christian Studies. Robby just returned from a conference on “Telling the Story of Religion in Texas through Journalism” conference, where he urged journalists to interrogate the religious language used by leaders like Trump who are using it to justify authoritarian policies. Robby also applauded the American Academy of Religion for standing up and condemning book bans after his book, White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity, was banned at the US Naval academy along with six other authors writing about religion, race, and gender in American history. These are all beacons of hope as Trump continues to undermine democracy and devastate the US and world economy.

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Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
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44min
April 04, 2025 Building Resistance, The Great Digital Book Burning, and Attacks on the Keepers of Truth and History
In our latest LIVE episode of The Convocation Inscription, we all report from our experiences from the road over the last two weeks—from California, Indiana, Tennessee, and New York. We’re sensing that all of the destruction unleashed by the Trump administration is finally sinking in to a broader swath of Americans, including folks in predominantly white Christian spaces. People are beginning to wake up, not only to the incompetence, but to the critical threat Trump and his presidency is to our pluralistic democracy. We urge people to understand the purges of websites, databases, and exhibits of the lives and work of women, LGBTQ Americans, and Americans of color for what they are—the modern day equivalent of a massive book burning. And we give a grateful shout out to Sen. Cory Booker, who took the record from segregationist Strom Thurman, for the longest speech given in the Senate in our nation’s history—this time calling for a more inclusive vision of America. Finally, we urge people to channel their anxiety, anger, frustration into action by looking for local ways to be loud and to use whatever resources they have now, before it gets even harder, to protect democracy.

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Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
...more
1h 4min
March 21, 2025 Quiet and Steady Resistance: the Work of Racial Justice and Repair Continues in Local Communities
In this episode, the Convocation Unscripted team takes a break from the daily outrages coming from the Trump administration to talk about the work for racial justice, healing, and repair that is taking place in unexpected places. Jemar talked about his recent travels to Jackson, Mississippi, and Montgomery and Selma, Alabama. Robby talked about his recent trips to speak at First Baptist Church of Richmond, Virginia, where his book White Too Long was chosen as a city-side book read for Black History Month, and to the Zacchaeus Foundation in Little Rock, Arkansas, which is facilitating reparations payments from white residents and historically white churches to support Black nonprofits in Northwest Arkansas. Diana is also about to be on the road for much of April, speaking with churches and groups who are continuing the work of social and racial justice, even against the prevailing winds. We wrapped the episode with a tribute to Roger Freet, a literary agent to and friend of Diana and Robby, who passed away this week. He was a great soul who supported so much good work in the world, and we miss him.

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Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
...more
42min
March 14, 2025 Finding Bright Lines, Embracing Empathy, and Taking Sides
Amid the continued onslaught against our Constitutional rights by the Trump administration, Robby, Kristin, and Diana discuss the importance of focusing on “bright lines” that are being crossed. We celebrate the institutions that continue to hold courageous conversations in these challenging days, such as First Baptist Church of Richmond and St. Mary’s College in Indiana, which are hosting Robby and Kristin for public conversations. We discuss the likely illegal detaining of Mahmoud Khalil--a Palestinian recent graduate of Columbia University, U.S. green card holder, and husband of an American citizen—for speech the Trump administration did not like. We also talk about the dangers of Trump’s usurpation of power by declaring a national emergency. This emergency declaration, made without any legitimate grounds, gives Trump the power to unilaterally impose tariffs and to invoke the Alien Enemies Act, as he is likely to do shortly to institute mass deportations.

Finally we talk about the heresy circulating in Christian circles that empathy is a threat to the gospel. We point out that previous purges of empathy as a Christian virtue among white Christians in America prepared the ground for the genocide of Indigenous people and the enslavement of people of African descent. We know where that road leads. We also discussed the importance of universities and churches to avoid the trap of neutrality, since, as our colleague Jemar always reminds us, justice takes sides.
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59min
March 07, 2025 Trump's State of the Union and the Season of Lent
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Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
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1h 3min
February 28, 2025 Don't Lose Your Humanity
In this episode of The Convocation Unscripted, Diana, Jemar, and Kristin talk about the AI-generated video about Gaza that Trump shared, the ongoing relevance of the "God & Country" documentary, Jeff Bezos' interpretation of "free speech", and how not lose your humanity from an article by Kelly Brown Douglas.

Watch "God & Country"
Read about the AI-generated video
Read Kelly Brown Douglas's article

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...more
51min
February 21, 2025 Money, Lies, and God
The Convocation Team (minus Diana, who was traveling this week) opened the show by talking about the importance of Katherine Stewarts’s important new book, Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy, which was released this week. The hosts agreed that Money, Lies, and God is a must-read book to understand the coalescing of white Christian nationalism, the tech bro oligarchy, and authoritarianism that is actively wrecking the nation under Trump. We also discuss emerging alternative platforms of courageous journalism happening on platforms like Substack. And we note the hypocrisy of Trump’s executive order establishing an “Anti-Christian Task Force” at all federal agencies, which is simultaneously a vehicle for white evangelical Protestant Christian favoritism and a weapon against other Christians and religious groups Trump considers disloyal.

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Follow on Substack:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
...more
44min
February 14, 2025 The Rise of Religious Resistance, MAGA DEI Hysteria, and Theological Anthropology
In this episode, the Convocation Unscripted team highlights the religious resistance to the Trump administration’s abandonment of three decades of guidance that prohibited the government from conducting immigration enforcement raids in “sensitive locations,” including places of worship, schools, and hospitals. In response, a diverse group of 27 Christian and Jewish organizations filed a lawsuit against the Department of Homeland Security, claiming that such raids would violate their religious liberty and duty to welcome the stranger. We also talked about the role the law played in securing civil rights for African Americans when the executive and legislative branches failed to do so. Finally, we talked about the absurd turns the MAGA DEI hysteria has taken and the opportunity for Christians to develop a new theological anthropology consistent with a pluralistic democracy.

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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
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1h 5min
February 07, 2025 New PRRI Study on Christian Nationalism, Trump’s Redefinition of Religious Liberty, Signs of Resistance and Hope
On our second live Convocation Unscripted show, we were glad to be joined by over 600 live participants. Robby kicked us off by highlighting the main findings of PRRI’s recent study of support for Christian nationalism in all 50 states, reminding us that while the 3 in 10 Americans who are Christian Nationalism Adherents or Sympathizers are enjoying a moment of extraordinary influence, they are actually outnumbered by a margin of 2 to 1 in the general population. They are neither the best of us nor the majority of us. Jemar reminded us, particularly those of us who are white Christians, that in addition to examples of courageous, justice-seeking leaders like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, we have an often overlooked resource closer to hand in the witness the Black church here in the US. Kristin and Diana talked about Trump’s jarring speech at the National Prayer Breakfast, where he announced the establishment of a task force on “anti-Christian bias,” making it clear that this administration’s commitments to religious liberty are narrowly focused on protecting the interests of conservative white Christians alone. Trump’s attacks on Lutheran and Catholic social service agencies are just the beginning. After discussing a dozen listener questions, we wrapped the episode by each sharing a passage about resistance and hope from our recent books.

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1h 5min

FAQs about The Convocation Unscripted:

How many episodes does The Convocation Unscripted have?

The podcast currently has 31 episodes available.

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