Michael Lewis is an American author, journalist, and former bond trader. His best-known book, The Big Short, explains the 2000s US housing bubble and helped many people understand the 2008 financial crisis. In this interview, Lewis speaks with Aaron Bastani about his latest book, a collection of essays on federal government employees.

Lewis finds that many of these workers are actually doing a good job, far from the stereotype of inefficient bureaucrats and the ire the likes of Trump and Musk direct at them. Why is Trump so effective at capturing public anger? Could Trumpism continue without Trump? What is Obama’s true political legacy? And what is the next major crisis?