Discussion of climate change mainly focuses on mitigating rising temperatures, de-carbonising and getting to ‘net zero’.

Author and broadcaster Gaia Vince argues that we also need to focus on how we’ll deal with with’s already happening and about to get much much worse: huge swathes of the planet becoming uninhabitable and 2 billion people needing to find somewhere new to live.

She argues the solution to this problem is a radical reframing of how we think about migration.

She sat down with Aaron to talk wet bulb temperatures, demographic aging and the Japanese nappy market.

Gaia’s book Nomad Century is available from Penguin.