On the Gist, using poker logic to analogize the upcoming presidential debates with Annie Duke. She is a former professional poker player, cognitive scientist and author of the forthcoming How to Decide: Simple Tools for Making Better Choices.

In the interview, Mike passes the baton to Annie Duke once more to dig into gerrymandering. Duke talks with Moon Duchin, a mathematician and professor at Tufts University, about her research into understanding how voting districts work. Through redistricting analysis at the Metric Geometry and Gerrymandering Group, an organization Duchin co-founded, she describes how in this democracy, fairness isn't always as easy to find when you're considering where people live and vote.

In the spiel, messing up several thousand absentee ballots was inevitable.

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Podcast production by Margaret Kelley and Jamila Bey.

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