How do artists decide what to say when everything from grassroots music to the climate is in crisis?

Backstage at Reading Festival, Drowned in Sound’s Sean Adams and Emma Wilkes sat down with Rou Reynolds, the frontman of Enter Shikari, one of the UK's most politically engaged bands. We discuss a range of topics including the St Albans music scene and how they pioneered the grassroots music venue levy - adding £1 to arena tickets to support small venues.

With 20 years of activism and seven albums under the band’s belt, Rou’s learned that having a platform means constantly choosing which crisis at a time or polycrisis deserves the spotlight. And we chat a lot about the interconnected issues and the need for system change.

Chapters:

03:00 – How the £1 venue levy actually works in practice

"To be silent in times of atrocity is to assist in maintaining that atrocity"

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Is rage the soundtrack of summer 2025? Can joy exist alongside political solidarity when climate change turns fields into dust clouds? Are main stages becoming platforms for resistance? And how do grassroots venues create the community foundations that allow festivals like Reading to exist at all?

This DiSpatch captures Reading Festival 2025 as both a celebration and political flashpoint - a weekend where Chappell Roan's euphoric main stage triumph coexisted with Palestine solidarity, climate crisis manifestations, and urgent conversations about the grassroots music ecosystem that supports it all. Sean Adams and Emma Wilkes navigate backstage conversations revealing how artists choose which urgent topics to address when "there's a lot of things happening in the world."

From Enter Shikari's pioneering grassroots levy work to Cliffords’ Cork scene community building, the episode maps how small venues create the collaborative culture that eventually reaches festival main stages. These conversations connect individual artist journeys to systemic challenges: venue closures, climate impacts, and the intersection of music with broader political movements.

00:00 – Introduction: Festivals as cultural battlegrounds in climate crisis era

Chappell Roan, Cliffords, Sofia Isella, Enter Shikari, Heartworms, The Linda Lindas, Mannequin P*ssy, Amyl and the Sniffers, Lambrini Girls, and more

DiSpatch episodes capture music events as cultural moments that reveal broader political and environmental currents. These aren't traditional festival reviews - they're explorations of how live music spaces become essential infrastructure for community building, political discourse, and cultural resistance in the climate crisis era.

What happens when the tech platforms care more about engagement and profits than music?

DiS meets music & technology journalist Cherie Hu, the founder of Water & Music, who's spent years mapping how tech giants from Spotify's recommendation algorithms to the venture capital funding streaming platforms. She's built one of music's most essential research operations to help fans and artists understand who really benefits from the current system and how best to use the tech of tomorrow..

00:00 – Introduction

03:20 – Defining practical futurism and collaborative research

05:40 – From Forbes freelancer to community builder

07:55 – The evolution of Water & Music's collaborative model

12:40 – What collaboration enables now vs. the past

17:25 – Music and media's parallel challenge

22:15 – Building relationships and networks in the attention economy

23:50 – Domain specialisation vs. generalist approach in a noisy media landscape

29:20 – Artists and founders engaging with Water & Music

31:40 – Evergreen content, catalog lessons, and growth strategies

37:25 – Community building fundamentals: patience, trust, and institutional memory

40:05 – Math, music, and creativity

42:10 – Defining what community means

43:30 – Sean's Outro

Guest Links:

About the Host:

Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, championing independent music since 2000. Through DiS, he maps music's future while supporting artists and fans building alternatives to platform control.

Nirvana, TikTok, analogue aesthetics, and virality don't usually go together. Meet the creator who is bucking all the trends.

How do you build genuine community around music in an attention economy designed for extraction? What happens when Nirvana's DIY punk ethics meets TikTok algorithms? Can analog aesthetics and primary source research create alternatives to clickbait culture?

This week, Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams talks with Royce aka ShoshinBoy - the TikTok creator behind viral music history videos that blend VHS cameras, rotary phones, and deep cultural excavation. From viral Nirvana content (2 million views) to uncovering forgotten Cure folklore, his analog-meets-digital approach reveals how authentic passion can cut through algorithmic noise.

Inspired by DIY punk rock culture, ShoshinBoy developed research methodology that prioritises primary sources and contemporary context over Wikipedia aggregation. His anti-gimmick gimmick - talking through vintage technology while analysing YouTube clips of Arctic Monkeys, The Clash, Pavement and many more - started as platform critique but evolved into genuine community building around shared musical mythology.

The conversation explores creator economy extraction, the death of mysterious rockstars in parasocial media landscapes, and why nostalgia both preserves and destroys cultural memory. Most importantly, it reveals how DIY ethics can survive on corporate platforms when creators prioritise community service over algorithmic optimisation.

00:00 – Introduction

"I think that like. At its core, I just wanna be genuine and, and like I said, I'm only doing this 'cause it's fun and it's what I'm compelled to do anyways." [24:00]

"I don't think the idea of selling out exists in the year 2023. Acknowledging the idea that just to even pay rent or, or exist as a creative online in the current economy is, is it's so difficult." [26:00]

Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication that has championed underground and independent artists since 2000. Through the DiS podcast, newsletter, and community, Sean explores how to build a fairer, more sustainable music industry while supporting the artists and fans who make it meaningful.

This evergreen episode of the DiS podcast was recorded in 2023 and explores how DIY punk ethics can survive and thrive in platform capitalism, revealing alternative paths for creators who prioritise community building over algorithmic extraction in the attention economy.

How do music journalists spot breakthrough artists before they become household names? What does it take to get leftfield artists like Zola Jesus into mainstream publications like Vogue? How can music journalists build trust that transforms both interviews and careers?

This week, Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams talks with Ilana Kaplan - the music editor at People Magazine and author of "Nora Ephron at the Movies" (Abrams Books, 2024). Following conversations about discovery and algorithms, this episode explores the craft of music journalism: how experienced writers develop taste, build industry relationships, and create the stories that shape how we discover music.

From researching artists at the Barnes & Noble magazine racks to recognising Billie Eilish's potential at a Mercury Lounge show to creating the viral boygenius Brokeback Mountain-inspired cover stories for Alternative Press, Ilana's career journey reveals the human curation that algorithms can't replicate.

The conversation covers discovery methods, editorial strategy, the changing definition of "alternative music," and why building trust with artists creates better journalism than aggressive questioning.

Chapters:

00:00 – Introduction

Key Takeaways:

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Referenced in Episode:

About the Host:

Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication that has championed underground and independent artists since 2000. Through the DiS podcast, newsletter, and community, Sean explores how to build a fairer, more sustainable music industry while supporting the artists and fans who make it meaningful.

This episode was recorded in November 2023 during Ilana's transition between staff and freelance work, capturing insights about journalism craft and industry navigation during a period of significant media industry change.

In this special Q&A episode, DiS founder Sean Adams explores the uncomfortable truths about streaming economics, social media burnout, and why the music industry's success metrics are fundamentally broken.

From debunking the myth that millions of streams equal financial stability to reframing social media as an extension of artistic practice, Sean answers your questions and offers practical wisdom for navigating an industry designed to exploit rather than support creators.

This episode strips away the glossy veneer of streaming success stories to reveal the harsh mathematical reality: an artist with 25 million streams over a decade might earn just £6,000 annually - less than minimum wage, before expenses. Sean explores why massive streaming numbers rarely translate to sustainable live audiences and how platforms like Spotify actively prevent artists from connecting with their own listeners.

Timestamped Chapters:

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What if the very thing that makes you feel like an outsider in the music industry could become your greatest business advantage? How do you build something meaningful when you're convinced you're not qualified? And why might starting before you feel "ready" be the secret to creating lasting change?

This week, Sean talks with Isobel Anderson - founder of Girls Twiddling Knobs, one of music tech's most important feminist voices. Following on from the Mary Spender episode about converting online reach into sustainable income, this conversation explores a different path: how small, mission-driven businesses can create industry change without needing massive audiences.

From a PhD in Sonic Arts to over 25 million Spotify streams to building Girls Twiddling Knobs into one of music tech's most important feminist voices, reaching thousands of women through courses, community, and her acclaimed podcast, Isobel's journey proves that feeling like an imposter might actually be your qualification.

In essence, this episode is about turning industry frustrations into business opportunities, why multiple revenue streams are now reality for musicians, and how to value your work when the world expects creativity for free.

Chapters:

00:00 – Sean's Introduction: Building Your Independent Music Business

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About the Host:

Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound and manages artists including Charlotte Church and The Anchoress. Beyond founding one of the original music blogs, he's worked with BBC 6 Music and co-produced political podcast The Trawl. Through the DiS podcast, he maps the future of music by exploring culture, politics, and the systems shaping how we create and consume music.

Note: This conversation originally took place a couple of years ago but feels more relevant than ever as musicians navigate the realities of building sustainable, independent careers. If this episode sparks any business ideas, we'd love to hear about them in three years' time.

While most music industry coverage focuses on (poly)crisis and collapse, Mary Spender argues we're living through the greatest era for independent artists in history.

But, but but... what about streaming economics, venue closures, and platform dependence? Don't worry, we get into it.

With over 100 million YouTube views, 34,000 newsletter subscribers, and significant album sales achieved before releasing a single track to streaming, Mary demonstrates there are viable alternatives to industry doom-spiralling.

In this conversation, she reveals her strategies for converting YouTube viewers into album buyers, why artists need to think like entrepreneurs, and what she'd build with Spotify's $400 million Joe Rogan budget.

Sean also asks her about her recent video about why artists should embrace YouTube. Speaking of which, you will be able to see clips from this interview over on Drowned in Sound's YouTube: youtube.com/@DrownedinSound

Timestamps

00:00 Sean's Intro

03:21 What will music be like in 2050?

06:25 Why artists should think like entrepreneurs

12:45 What does the future hold for independent artists?

16:56 The 1000 true fan theory

18:51 Should YouTube be the #1 platform for musicians?

24:36 Researching with an open mind. A rare skillset?

29:45 How to convert an audience from YouTube

34:17 What can the UK government do for music?

36:35 How would Mary spend the $400 million Spotify paid Joe Rogan?

38:39 Is long-form content on the return?

43:29 Sean's Outro

Quotable Moments

Continue the Conversation📧 Email [email protected] with your questions for future episodes🌐 Join the Drowned in Sound Community📰 Subscribe to the Drowned in Sound newsletter

Guest Links

Referenced in Episode

About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound (est. 2000), manages artists including Charlotte Church and The Anchoress, and has worked with BBC 6 Music. Through this podcast, he maps the future of music by exploring culture, politics, and the systems shaping how we create and consume music. At its peak, Drowned in Sound had over 3 million readers. Stay tuned for details about its 25th anniversary celebrations.

What does it feel like to attend Glastonbury for the first time?

Music journalist Emma Wilkes brings us along for her debut pilgrimage to the UK's landmark musical gathering. She spins us a sonic diary with interviews from Terminal 1 and Laima Layton, along with reactions to some of the politically charged moments of the festival (shouts to Amyl and the Sniffers).

Along the way, there are vox pops with strangers, overlooked corners, and moments that slipped under the mainstream radar…

00:00 Introduction

01:51 Pre-festival preparation with Emma Wilkes

03:26 Attendees' expectations of Glastonbury 2025

04:22 First impressions and Thursday observations

06:19 Terminal 1 and an interview with Laima Layton

18:32 The sounds of Worthy Farm

19:12 How does the real-life festival compare to the coverage seen previously?

21:45 The political moments of Glastonbury 2025

30:42 The journey home, the Tuesday after, and a summary from a slightly raspy Emma

34:11 Expectations vs. reality with the people of the festival

Mentioned in the episode:

Laima Layton

In Place Of War

GRRRL

Terminal 1

Amyl and the Sniffers

JADE

Seun Kuti

Maruja

Lambrini Girls

• Join the conversation: Drowned in Sound Community

How do you build genuine community when algorithms reward viral moments over real connection? What if sustainable music careers start with just five super fans rather than chasing millions of followers?

Drowned in Sound founder & artist manager Sean Adams speaks with Nikki Camilleri - music strategist, Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree, and founder of mana - about the ground-level realities of building a music career in 2025.

From growing up in Malta and navigating geographic disadvantage to working with breakthrough artists like Cat Burns, Nikki breaks down what actually works in today's oversaturated landscape.

This conversation digs deep into authentic community-building versus audience accumulation, the "five super fans" principle that challenges conventional wisdom, and why most artist advice around social media is fundamentally broken.

Plus: Nikki's vision for fixing music industry infrastructure by 2050, including transparency tools and direct fan connection platforms that don't rely on algorithmic gatekeepers.

"You need five super fans to start getting going - that's equal to about 250 passive fans. When you start looking at it that way, it doesn't seem as daunting."

— Nikki Camilleri on why quality beats quantity in fan building

Episode Timestamps:

• 00:00 Introduction: Music Reality Check for 2025

Mentioned in the episode:

Nikki Camilleri

ROSTR

Royal Society of Arts

Volt.fm

Kat Abu

The Anchoress

Kevin Kelly on 1000 True Fans

Join the conversation: Drowned in Sound Community

Email [email protected]

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