E31 - The Fifth Court

Presented by Peter Leonard, BL and Mark Tottenham BL

21'.30"

"In recent weeks the DPP cannot get Senior Counsel to act in criminal cases, I'm assuming because their fees, relative to other work, are so low." - Luigi Rea, BL

Luigi Rea BL (joined the profession in 1977 and Darren Lalor BL (2015) join our hosts Peter Leonard and Mark Tottenham to talk about the 'burning issue' in the Law Library - the campaign to reverse the cuts in legal criminal aid fees. These were cut during the time of the Troika, but the fees that were cut were State fees, so legal aid fees (not other fees), and these cuts have never been reversed.

Luigi talks about preferring criminal law over other areas such as property related cases where he didn't like when cases were being 'dragged out' 'so that fees would be generated'. 'Criminal (legal) work was easier to live with'.

Luigi says that in criminal cases nowadays that you 'can't touch client's money (for fees) because such monies might be the proceeds of crime' and therefore could be a criminal offence to accept such a payment. 'Drugs dealers have money, but you can't touch it' - so it's legal aid or nothing.

Peter Leonard asks Luigi 'how can you defend the bad guys' but Luigi interrupts and asks his own similar question that he's often asked, 'How do you defend people who are guilty' and he counters that by pointing out that 'on the other side' that there may be barristers prosecuting people who they know are innocent'.

Darren Lalor left school at 14 and decided to go back to school and college. A chance encounter with Luigi in the taxi that Darren was driving [he happened to be reading a law book so a conversation ensued] that has forged a lifelong and life changing friendship, and Darren joined the profession in 2015 specialising in criminal cases. Jokingly, he refers to media mentions of the Four Courts as being the Four Goldmines, while the Criminal Courts of Justice as being the Four Coalmines.

15.00" Luigi and Darren get into the meat of the campaign for the restitution of their fees back to the 2002 levels as he could work all day on a case and be paid €25. Luigi refers to one of his formal 'devils' who has fees outstanding from a solicitor of €7,000 - a 'loss' that she can't bear. They discuss the likelihood of a strike - which they say should happen 'sooner rather than later'.

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