The conversation discusses the recent TV moment where Beth Rigby questioned Keir Starmer and Rishi Sunak individually. It explores the lack of inspiration and vision from both leaders and the sense of distrust and cynicism among the public. The conversation also touches on the manifestos of the Labour and Conservative parties, highlighting the Conservatives' blizzard of policies and the cautious approach of Labour. It emphasises the need for an honest debate about tax and spend and the impact of spending cuts on local government. With former Special Adviser Giles Wilkes, who's now at the Institute for Government.

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