Just as the world was coming to grips with the seriousness of COVID-19 and countries were locking down, parts of China were getting over the worst of the pandemic and life was beginning to return to normal. This was the case when we recorded this interview with Mauricio 'Momo' Estrella, an Ecuadorian digital designer based in Shanghai with his wife and young son. In fact, Momo tells me that now, life is very much back to normal there.

In this chat he's going to explain how a city of more than 24 million people handled the outbreak, and what that experience was like. We also discuss how he adjusted culturally to life in China when he first made the move a decade ago. We also chat about the country's social credit scoring system: Momo explains why it's not as creepy as that episode of Black Mirror makes the concept out to be!