Hosts: Emma Stark, Phil Sanderson, Louise Reid

In this rich and often humorous conversation, Emma, Phil, and Louise unpack what God truly means by leadership — contrasting worldly authority with the biblical model of rulership that looks more like gardening than domination. They share personal stories from their Irish childhoods (including firework misadventures!), then dive deep into mantles of leadership, the shock when leaders fall, and the crucial need for an authentic inner life.

Key takeaways include:

• Biblical leadership is about tending, nurturing, and bringing fruitfulness — not controlling others.
• Leaders must steward their private life with honesty and death to self, casting crowns before God rather than seeking earthly applause.
• Honor and appreciation for leaders is healthy — but becomes toxic when shaped by worldly entitlement or obsession with awards.
• True leaders must learn to laugh at themselves and stay humble.
• As Phil reminds: “If you get your claim here on earth, you’re sacrificing it in heaven.”

This episode is a clarion call for leaders to live congruently before God and people — gardening souls, stewarding truth, and resisting the temptation of earthly rewards.