When being right is more important to you than being in relationship, difference and questioning become something to fear.

And fear shuts down connection and curiosity.

Unattended grief and rage are fertile ground for fear to have a party with our capacity to stay curious and welcome the discomfort of doubt and questions. 

And trust cannot exist without the ability to share and question the norms and beliefs of a community. 

When we lead or are led this way, questions become a threat to belonging and status quo. 

And when you are in the public eye, there seems to be even less room for doubt and more momentum for digging heels into being right, at the sacrifice of relationships and dignity.

Today’s Unburdened Leader guest and her husband lost friends, community, and much of their livelihood when they started to question some of the foundational tenets of their beliefs, which were deeply intertwined into their community.

Instead of their doubt and curiosity being welcomed and honored, their questioning came at a great cost that reflected that many in their community were more invested in being right over their relationships.

Lisa Gungor has been scribbling down songs since she was seven years old. A maker at heart, Lisa studied art in college, and in 2005 she began recording and traveling with the band that eventually turned into the two-time Grammy-nominated musical collective known as Gungor. She has new solo music under the name Isa Ma, and is co-founder of Sacred Feminine.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

• How Lisa’s beliefs and identity got publicly subsumed, first with her band then with her husband’s questioning
• What Lisa learned from the solidarity of the friends and community members who stuck by them
• How Lisa found her songwriting voice while struggling with her faith and infertility
• What embodied leadership means to Lisa

Learn more about Lisa Gungor:

• Isa Ma
• Sacred Feminine
• Instagram: @LisaGungor, @Isa_Ma_Music
• The Most Beautiful Thing I've Seen: Opening Your Eyes to Wonder, Lisa Gungor

Learn more about Rebecca:

• rebeccaching.com
• Work With Rebecca
• Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Resources:

• Paths to God: Living the Bhagavad Gita, Ram Dass
• The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide: Safe, Therapeutic, and Sacred Journeys, James Fadiman
• Awakening the Body, Will Johnson
• Women Who Run with the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype, Clarissa Pinkola Estés
• Everything Everywhere All at Once
• The Princess Bride