What does it mean to be good?

It’s a little word that carries a lot of weight for many of us. Be a good girl. Be a good friend. Be a good leader. Do good.

Good can sound like praise, but become a cage of expectations and shoulds, a performance that chips away at our authenticity. Good is no longer something we are, but is how others see us. It leads us to people please and keep the peace at all costs. And that’s especially true for women.

All too often, when women are in leadership, their goodness is measured by how they make others feel–good, comfortable, understood. All of that matters. But when the measure of leadership becomes how comfortable other people feel around us, we lose something essential.

We perform and manage emotions instead of building trust and respect. We seek to be liked and to fit in at the cost of real integrity and effectiveness. And likability is oh-so fleeting.

Respect, integrity, and true belonging take time and discomfort to build, but they last.

My guest today has written beautifully and bravely about the cost of being good, the truth of belonging, and the courage it takes to lead ourselves and others through discomfort.

Elise Loehnen is the New York Times bestselling author of On Our Best Behavior: The Seven Deadly Sins and the Price Women Pay to be Good and the host of the podcast, Pulling the Thread, where she interviews cultural luminaries about the big questions of today, including people like Joy Harjo, John and Julie Gottman, Dr. Gabor Maté, and Esther Perel. In addition to On Our Best Behavior, she is the author of a corresponding workbook—Choosing Wholeness Over Goodness—with coach Courtney Smith (July 2025), and the co-author of True & False Magic, with legendary psychiatrist Phil Stutz. Elise lives in Los Angeles with her husband, Rob, and their sons, Max and Sam.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

• How Elise traced the cultural roots of the “good woman” back to early Christianity and the many additions, erasures, and mistranslations of Biblical stories
• Why we need to pay attention to our envy and how it shows up in relation to other women
• How envy, pride, and greed fuel each other and the ways we stay small and tear other women down
• How social media has heightened the risk of reputational damage and changed how women work and lead, for better and worse
• Why we latch onto ideas of goodness and purity more deeply in times of greater uncertainty
• How current narratives about the “natural” order are ahistorical manipulations that limit what we believe is possible

Learn more about Elise Loehnen:

• Website
• Pulling the Thread on Substack
• Instagram: @eliseloehnen
• On Our Best Behavior: The Price Women Pay to Be Good
• Choosing Wholeness Over Goodness: A Process for Reclaiming Your Full Self
• True and False Magic: A Tools Workbook

Learn more about Rebecca:

• rebeccaching.com
• Work With Rebecca
• The Unburdened Leader on Substack
• Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Resources:

• Braving the Wilderness: The Quest for True Belonging and the Courage to Stand Alone, Brené Brown
• EP 123: Befriending Your Nervous System: Building Capacity for Regulation with Deb Dana
• The Intrinsic Order that Emerges from Within Chaos (Elinor Dickson, PhD)
• Dancing in the Flames: The Dark Goddess in the Transformation of Consciousness, Elinor Dickson and Marion Woodman 
• EP 88: Right-Use-of-Power: Navigating Leadership Dynamics with Dr. Cedar Barstow
• EP 125: Power, Regulation, and Leadership: Connecting to Your Personal Power with Dr. Amanda Aguilera
• The Reprioritization of Relationship (Lori Gottlieb)
• Maybe You Should Talk To Someone: A Therapist, HER Therapist, and Our Lives Revealed, Lori Gottlieb
• Lessons from Hollywood’s Most Powerful Woman—And How They Can Help You (with Donna Langley) | Aspire with Emma Grede
• Answer to Job, Carl Jung
• Aion: Researches Into the Phenomenology of the Self, Carl Jung
• The Science of Magic: How the Mind Weaves the Fabric of Reality, Dean Radin PhD
• Mistakes Were Made (but Not By Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts, Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson
• Sigur Rós - YouTube
• Jónsi - YouTube
• Love Island
• The Gilded Age
• Maiden
• Stutz

We live in an age where truth twists into confusion, opinion drowns out data, and it’s increasingly difficult to figure out whose expertise we can trust.

Where did our mistrust in expertise come from? Its roots stretch back to deliberate misinformation campaigns beginning in the 1950s spread by the likes of Big Tobacco, Big Oil, and conservative church movements. Then social media poured gasoline on the fire, accelerating the spread of misinformation and making sowing division highly profitable.

Misinformation campaigns take advantage of our brains’ natural tendency to protect the familiar and mistrust outgroups. And they capitalize on the very real betrayals people have experienced at the hands of corporations, governments, schools, and healthcare systems.

Our challenge now isn’t just knowing the facts, it’s interrogating our own beliefs, asking where our evidence comes from, and resisting the pull of certainty. As leaders, we need to discern who we give our attention to, practice critical thinking, resist manufactured controversy, and platform voices committed to both truth and connection.

Today’s guest is a neuroscientist and author of Why Brains Need Friends, who works to make science accessible, relational, and rooted in respect. He doesn’t focus on winning arguments or shaming people into submission. He focuses on bridging divides, building trust, and reminding us that our brains–and our lives–are wired for connection.

Ben Rein, PhD is an award-winning neuroscientist and science communicator. He serves as the Chief Science Officer of the Mind Science Foundation, an Adjunct Lecturer at Stanford University, and a Clinical Assistant Professor at SUNY Buffalo. He has published over 20 peer-reviewed papers on the neuroscience of social behavior, and is the author of Why Brains Need Friends: The Neuroscience of Social Connection. In addition, Rein educates an audience of more than 1 million social media followers and has been featured on outlets including Entertainment Tonight, Good Morning America and StarTalk with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. He has received awards for his science communication from the National Academies of Science, Engineering, and Medicine, the Society for Neuroscience, and elsewhere.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

• How an especially vivid nightmare redirected Ben’s path to neuroscience
• Why the division and isolation of modern life is so bad for our brains and overall health
• How engaging with strangers isn’t as awkward as we often think it is, and why we should do it more
• How small social interactions build our sense of belonging, community, and wellbeing
• Why we need to recognize and then override our gut reactions to those we perceive as belonging to outgroups
• How social media sound bites vastly oversimplify the complex and unknown systems in our brains
• Why Ben’s primary mission to to help people understand the value of looking to data and evidence rather than personalities and experiences
• Why we all have to get better at fact-checking and questioning why we’re ready to believe something

Learn more about Dr. Ben Rein:

• Website
• Instagram: @dr.benrein
• Why Brains Need Friends: The Neuroscience of Social Connection

Learn more about Rebecca:

• rebeccaching.com
• Work With Rebecca
• The Unburdened Leader on Substack
• Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Resources:

• Golden Holocaust: Origins of the Cigarette Catastrophe and the Case for Abolition, Robert N Proctor
• "Assessing ExxonMobil’s climate change communications (1977–2014),” Geoffrey Supran and Naomi Oreskes, 2017 Environmental Research Letters 12 084019
• The Creationists: From Scientific Creationism to Intelligent Design, Ronald L. Numbers
• "Misinformation and Its Correction Continued Influence and Successful Debiasing,” Stephan Lewandowsky et al., 2012 Psychological Science in the Public Interest, 13(3)
• The Logic of Scientific Discovery, Karl Popper
• SciSpace
• Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, Yuval Noah Harari
• Dune, Frank Herbert
• The Poisoner's Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York, Deborah Blum
• Tory Lanez - Gangland x Fargentina 4EVR (feat. Wolfgang Peterson & Kai)
• Hard Knocks: Training Camp
• Courage the Cowardly Dog

Have you ever thought of being an amateur as a good thing?

Many of us learned from an early age that our worth was tied to excelling at what we do and turning it into something productive. And many leaders carry the belief that they must be certain, skilled, and polished at all times.

But what if the exact opposite were true?

When we allow ourselves to dabble, to be amateurs, to be just okay at things, our brains literally become more adaptable and our nervous systems learn to stay grounded in the midst of risk, uncertainty, and vulnerability. Just as importantly, leaders who model dabbling create spaces where families, teams, and communities are safe to embrace curiosity and exploration. 

Resilient leadership requires us to meet high-stakes challenges with adaptability, grounded presence, and compassion. Intentional amateurship prepares us for life’s curveballs by building those skills in low-stakes settings.

Today’s guest returns to make the case for being a dabbler as a practice of freedom, resilience, and leadership. She shows us how choosing to play, experiment, and simply try expands our capacity for presence and courage.

Karen Walrond is an award-winning author, speaker, and leadership coach on a mission to create a kindness revolution.

Her books encourage readers to identify their values and inner light and use them to make the world brighter for others.  Audiences around the world have left her keynotes inspired with hope and a renewed determination to serve.  And her one-on-one leadership coaching sessions, workshops and retreats, rooted in the tenets of positive psychology coaching, have helped hundreds of clients unearth their gifts and past triumphs to lead with confidence, compassion and kindness.

Karen and her family split their time between Houston, Texas, USA and Bath, Somerset, UK.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

• The restorative power of doing something purely for the love of it
• How following her curiosity has shaped Karen’s career and how she protects her amateur pursuits
• How Karen’s dabbling adventures tapped into her seven attributes of intentional amateurism
• How intentional amateurship helps embed self-care, self-compassion, and self-transcendence into our lives
• How practicing being an amateur helps us bring curiosity, compassion, and resilience to our leadership
• Why the humbling experiences of dabbling are a vital reminder for leaders that they’re in it alongside their teams

Learn more about Karen Walrond:

• Website
• Instagram: @heychookooloonks
• Facebook: @chookooloonks
• Connect on LinkedIn
• The Make Light Journal on Substack
• In Defense of Dabbling: The Brilliance of Being a Total Amateur
• Radiant Rebellion: Reclaim Aging, Practice Joy, and Raise a Little Hell
• The Lightmaker's Manifesto: How to Work for Change Without Losing Your Joy
• The Beauty of Different: Observations of a Confident Misfit

Learn more about Rebecca:

• rebeccaching.com
• Work With Rebecca
• The Unburdened Leader on Substack
• Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Resources:

• Cherished Belonging: The Healing Power of Love in Divided Times, Gregory Boyle
• Tattoos on the Heart: The Power of Boundless Compassion, Gregory Boyle
• George Michael, Mary J. Blige - As
• Conclave
• Homeboy Industries

We’ve all had bad bosses.

We might have even been one. At the very least, we’ve probably let people down who counted on us.

We all carry burdens from our past that show up in how we lead. And we’re all confronting systems that foster toxic workplace cultures where overwork and blurred boundaries are the norm, spaces that don’t feel safe or generative, and where there is little to no accountability.

The question we face is simple, but urgent: How do we want to lead?

Our leadership can reinforce toxic systems and norms. Or we can learn to recognize our own burdens and do the work to become more aware, adaptable, and flexible. We can create spaces where people feel seen, heard, and valued, even when systems feel unstable or unfair.

Because leading is about deciding, in every moment, whether we respond from our burdens or from our values. 

And my guest today helps us reflect on those choices and decide how we want to lead through her own lived experiences with bad bosses. 

Mita Mallick is a Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestselling author who is on a mission to fix what’s broken in our workplaces. She’s a corporate change maker with a track record of transforming businesses and has had an extensive career as a marketing and human resources executive. 

Mallick is a highly sought-after speaker who has advised Fortune 500 companies and start-ups alike. She is a LinkedIn Top Voice and was named to the Thinkers 50 Radar List. She’s a contributor to Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Adweek, and Entrepreneur. Mallick has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Time Magazine, Forbes, Axios, Essence, Cosmopolitan Magazine and Business Insider.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

• Three scenarios where leaders commonly shift into being bad bosses
• Key reasons why we tolerate bad bosses and what we can do to shift the culture
• Why Mita’s 13 archetypal bad bosses persist in our workplaces
• Why leaders have to invest time and connection in their team members if they want to retain them
• Why another executive coaching program will not fix a truly bad boss
• The number one skill leaders can focus on to become a better boss
• Why corporate America needs more humility and vulnerability

Learn more about Mita Mallick:

• Website
• Connect on LinkedIn
• Reimagine Inclusion: Debunking 13 Myths to Transform Your Workplace
• The Devil Emails at Midnight: What Good Leaders Can Learn from Bad Bosses

Learn more about Rebecca:

• rebeccaching.com
• Work With Rebecca
• The Unburdened Leader on Substack
• Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Resources:

• EP 102: Toxic Leadership: The True Cost of Workplace Trauma with Mita Mallick
• Give and Take: A Revolutionary Approach to Success, Adam Grant
• The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth, Amy C Edmondson
• The Normalization Of Corruption In Organizations, Blake E. Ashforth and Vikas Anand
• Managing to be ethical: Debunking five business ethics myths, Linda Klebe Treviño and Michael E. Brown
• Examining the Link Between Ethical Leadership and Employee Misconduct: The Mediating Role of Ethical Climate, David M. Mayer, Maribeth Kuenzi, Rebecca L. Greenbaum
• The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma, Bessel van der Kolk M.D.
• The Pocket Guide to the Polyvagal Theory: The Transformative Power of Feeling Safe, Stephen W. Porges
• Primal Leadership: Unleashing the Power of Emotional Intelligence, Prof Daniel Goleman PH D, Richard E Boyatzis, and Annie McKee
• Psychological Conditions of Personal Engagement and Disengagement at Work, William A. Kahn
• Emotional Intelligence: Theory, Findings, and Implications, John D. Mayer, Peter Salovey, David R. Caruso
• Working with Emotional Intelligence, Daniel Goleman
• The 5Ds of Bystander Intervention - Right To Be
• EP 52: Charlie Gilkey: Leading With What Matters Most
• EP 85: Team Habits: Redefining Workplace Dynamics with Charlie Gilkey
• Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear, Elizabeth Gilbert
• The Anxious Achiever: Turn Your Biggest Fears Into Your Leadership Superpower, Morra Aarons-Mele
• Sia - Unstoppable
• The Sopranos
• Breaking Bad
• Fresh Off the Boat
• The Fresh Prince of Bel Air

How we care for ourselves is inextricably connected to how we lead.

In a culture where we moralize health and sell wellness as a symbol of worth, where we’re obsessed with productivity and optimization, our relationships with food and our bodies go beyond personal struggles.

They shape how we lead, how we show up for others, and how we define success. When leaders model extreme routines, restrictive regimens, or performance-based wellness, they may unintentionally perpetuate shame and comparison–even if they intend to inspire or be helpful.

This isn’t a dismissal of health. Caring for our bodies, feeding ourselves well, and seeking movement that feels good and helps our bodies be strong are powerful acts of self-respect. 

But when an obsession with performance and purity–whether through hustle culture or “clean” living–erodes our self-trust and amplifies our inner critics, it becomes a leadership issue.

Today’s guest is an eating disorder specialist who understands how shame, perfectionism, and chronic striving get tangled up in how we feed and care for ourselves, and how we show up in the world. Unburdening our relationship with food and body isn’t just about health; it’s a powerful leadership move.

As a clinical psychologist, Dr. Jeanne Catanzaro has specialized in treating eating issues and trauma for close to 30 years. She trained in psychodynamic psychotherapy, Somatic Experiencing and Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) before discovering the Internal Family Systems (IFS) model. Dr. Catanzaro served as the director of a day treatment program for eating disorders for two years and is currently the Vice President of the Internal Family Systems Institute. She is the author of the book, Unburdened Eating: Healing Your Relationships with Food and Your Body Using an Internal Family Systems Approach.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

• Why unburdening our relationship with food and body is a continual process, not a three-step plan
• How to approach your motivations for how you eat and exercise with curiosity and compassion
• How diet culture isn’t just about weight, but reflects wider cultural and systemic beliefs about bodies, health, beauty, and worth
• How value judgments about how we and others eat protect us from vulnerability and reinforce hierarchies
• Why it’s impossible to fixate on your own body without your self-judgment rubbing off onto others
• Common wellness traps that can feed our inner managers and protectors at the expense of our core self-knowledge

Learn more about Dr. Jeanne Catanzaro:

• Website
• Unburdened Eating: Healing Your Relationships with Food and Your Body Using an Internal Family Systems Approach

Learn more about Rebecca:

• rebeccaching.com
• Work With Rebecca
• The Unburdened Leader on Substack
• Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Resources:

• Health Food Junkies Orthorexia Nervosa: Overcoming the Obsession with Healthful Eating, Steven Bratman, David Knight
• Health At Every Size: The Surprising Truth About Your Weight, Lindo Bacon
• Health at Every Size® (HAES®) Principles – ASDAH
• Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself, Dr. Kristin Neff
• Jessica Wilson
• Sonya Renee Taylor
• Sabrina Strings
• Da'Shaun Harrison
• Jessica Knurick
• Evelyn Tribole
• Why Can’t Americans Sleep? - Jennifer Senior, The Atlantic
• Original Sin: President Biden's Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again, Jake Tapper, Alex Thompson
• Celeste, Pete Kuzma
• Lincoln's Dilemma
• The Great British Baking Show
• The Breakfast Club
• The Buggles - Video Killed The Radio Star

What does it take to lead when your story becomes the story, and the stakes are survival and justice?

When you’ve experienced relational trauma or institutional betrayal, as Judith Herman wrote in Trauma and Recovery, “The ordinary response to atrocities is to banish them from consciousness.” 

But silence protects systems, not survivors.

When we do speak up, at best we’re often told to move on, and at worst we might face violent pushback. The stress and fear from the blowback can all too easily silence us and chip away at our integrity and adaptability if we don’t do the important work to address the toll it takes.

But when we give ourselves permission to feel the overwhelm, and still take one step forward, we shift from silence into action. Sometimes that step is public and loud. Sometimes it's private and steady. All of it counts. There is no one right way to advocate for change.

My guest today did more than just share her story; she used it to create meaningful change in her home state of Texas. In this conversation, we discuss what it means to bear the weight of your trauma while advocating for others, the emotional toll of being a public face for change, and what it looks like to keep showing up, even when the system makes it difficult.

Summer Willis is an endurance athlete, advocate, and mother of two who ran 29 marathons in a year to raise awareness for sexual assault survivors. She is the namesake of the Summer Willis Act, landmark consent legislation passed in Texas. Through storytelling, extreme challenges, and her nonprofit Strength Through Strides, she empowers others to turn pain into purpose.

Content note: discussion of sexual assault

Listen to the full episode to hear:

• The legal loophole in Texas law that ignited Summer’s drive to turn her worst experience into tangible change for millions of survivors
• How sharing her story and raising awareness and support for the law connected Summer to a wide community of survivors and allies when she was feeling isolated
• Why she decided to run 29 marathons before her 30th birthday while sharing her story, and how that challenge evolved into legislative advocacy
• How being an endurance athlete helped Summer through legislative challenges and setbacks to get the Summer Willis Act passed
• How Summer is bringing in lightness to her life after sharing her story over and over while trying to pass the bill
• Why taking the first step and learning along the way are crucial to shaping change

Learn more about Summer Willis:

• Website
• Strength Through Strides
• Instagram: @likesummerwillis

Learn more about Rebecca:

• rebeccaching.com
• Work With Rebecca
• The Unburdened Leader on Substack
• Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Resources:

• Trauma and Recovery: The Aftermath of Violence–From Domestic Abuse to Political Terror, Judith Lewis Herman MD
• Dr. Dan Siegel
• Truth and Repair: How Trauma Survivors Envision Justice, Judith Lewis Herman MD
• Carol Gilligan
• EP 90: Engaged and Consistent Leadership: with Moms Demand Action Founder, Shannon Watts
• Moms Demand Action
• RAINN
• NoMore.org
• Joyful Heart Foundation
• Hisko Hulsing
• Chanel Miller
• The Wedding People, Alison Espach
• Taylor Swift - right where you left me
• Prime Minister
• Cobain: Montage of Heck

What do you care about these days? 

Caring is the currency of leadership, but here’s the paradox: when we care too much about too many things, we can lose sight of the things that truly matter. 

So the question is: How do you direct your energy toward what you value, without becoming overwhelmed by the sheer volume of things you could care about? 

The most effective leaders are those who can connect deeply with their teams, foster trust, and create a sense of safety and belonging. They lead with empathy, not just strategy.

But perfectionism and overfunctioning can lead us to feel like we need to be everything to everyone, at the expense of our well-being and, ultimately, the quality of our leadership.

For many of us, the path to effective leadership begins with finding your enough. When you shift your lens to honoring your enough, you stay connected to your values and to the people and causes that matter most to you, without tipping into exhaustion.

My guest today offers a model of what it’s like to care deeply without losing yourself in the process, and of finding joy and community along the way. 

Ashlee Piper is a sustainability expert, commentator, and speaker whose work has been widely featured on television and in print media. She is the author of Give a Sh*t: Do Good. Live Better. Save the Planet. and No New Things: A Radically Simple 30-Day Guide to Saving Money, the Planet, and Your Sanity.

Piper has spoken at the United Nations,  SXSW, and has a popular TED talk. She is the creator of the #NoNewThings Challenge, for which she received a 2022 Silver Stevie Award for Female Innovator of the Year, and is a professor of sustainability marketing. She holds a BA from Brown University and a master’s degree from the University of Oxford. She lives in Chicago in a home that’s 98 percent secondhand and can often be found singing Seal’s “Kiss from a Rose” at any not-so-fine karaoke establishment.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

• How #NoNewThings grew from a personal 30-day goal to attracting thousands of participants and becoming a book
• How taking a break from consumption helped Ashlee refocus on the values and relationships that matter most
• How marketers game our mental and physical states to sell us things, and a simple way to bring awareness to our own consumption patterns
• Why #NoNewThings emphasizes intentionality with purchases over strictly not spending
• Why “sustainable” is the new “natural” and tips for making more informed choices
• How recognizing our “enough” makes space for building community, getting involved, and living our values

Learn more about Ashlee Piper:

• Website
• Instagram: @ashleepiper
• Substack: The Ethical Edit
• Give a Sh*t: Do Good. Live Better. Save the Planet.
• No New Things: A Radically Simple 30-Day Guide to Saving Money, the Planet, and Your Sanity

Learn more about Rebecca:

• rebeccaching.com
• Work With Rebecca
• The Unburdened Leader on Substack
• Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Resources:

• Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ, Daniel Goleman
• Interpersonal Neurobiology - Dr. Dan Siegel
• EP 02: How Self-Leadership Saves You From The Relentless Drive To Succeed with Dr. Richard Schwartz
• EP 72: Identifying and Addressing the Burdens of Individualism with Deran Young & Dick Schwartz
• EP 131: Leadership, Accountability, and the Self: A Special Anniversary Conversation with IFS Founder Richard Schwartz
• Why 'Underconsumption' is a wild term - by Ashlee Piper
• Grandma Gatewood's Walk: The Inspiring Story of the Woman Who Saved the Appalachian Trail, Ben Montgomery
• Usher - Hey Daddy (Daddy's Home)
• Temptation Island
• Out of This World
• Small Wonder

We persist for what matters most—for the people we lead, and the people we love.

But persistence can start to feel like just another weight to carry, another demand that drains us. 

And people are tired. So many of us are balancing caregiving, leadership, advocacy, a constant firehose of urgent crises, and maybe sneaking in some rest. So sure, persistence sounds good, but how do we keep going without flaming out?

We learn how to prune our proverbial gardens.

Pruning, whether a tomato plant or an out-of-control to-do list, requires focusing on the present so we can remove what no longer serves, while protecting what still has life in it. It’s persistence in action. It’s what keeps us from burning it all down and walking away or from our commitments taking over our lives.

Today’s guest offers us a masterclass in persistence. She started small. When resistance showed up, she didn’t just push through. She revisited her vision. She stayed in relationship with mentors and worked in community. And over time, she has built a global movement for disability, visibility, equity, and justice.

On today’s 35th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act, Tiffany Yu shares a reminder that persistence isn’t about doing it all right away or quitting when it’s too much. It’s about staying focused, refining our vision, and staying connected to supportive people and your mission.

Tiffany Yu is the CEO and Founder of Diversability, a 3x TEDx speaker, and the author of The Anti-Ableist Manifesto: Smashing Stereotypes, Forging Change, and Building a Disability-Inclusive World. She started her career at Goldman Sachs and was named to the 2025 Forbes Accessibility 100 List. At the age of 9, Tiffany became disabled as a result of a car accident that also took the life of her father.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

• How the seeds of Tiffany’s disability activism were sown during her time at Georgetown
• How Tiffany’s delayed processing of her grief and trauma impacted her ability to connect with disabled joy
• Why it matters that all of us get invested in prioritizing accessibility and inclusion for the disability community
• Why accessibility is about more than just utility and needs to address the wholeness of people with disabilities
• What leaders can do now to craft more accessible and inclusive spaces and events
• The importance of community and using your influence to build bridges in the face of setbacks

Learn more about Tiffany Yu:

• Website
• Diversability
• Instagram: @imtiffanyyu
• Connect on LinkedIn
• The Anti-Ableist Manifesto: Smashing Stereotypes, Forging Change, and Building a Disability-Inclusive World

Learn more about Rebecca:

• rebeccaching.com
• Work With Rebecca
• The Unburdened Leader on Substack
• Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Resources:

• The Persist Network
• EP 134: Focus, Feel, Forward: Redefining Leadership for the Long Haul with Amanda Litman
• Janina Fisher
• Dr. Dan Siegel
• Stephen Porges, PhD
• Best Buddies International
• Stigma Fighters
• Made of Millions
• Francis Weller
• The Power of Exclusion | Tiffany Yu | TEDxBethesda
• Judith Heumann - Defying Obstacles in "Being Heumann" and "Crip Camp" | The Daily Show
• What My Bones Know, Stephanie Foo
• Benson Boone - Beautiful Things
• Severance
• Schitt's Creek
• Oppenheimer
• Reading Rainbow
• Arthur
• Mister Rogers' Neighborhood
• Shine Theory: Why Powerful Women Make the Greatest Friends
• The Problem with Positivity | Tiffany Yu | TEDxYouth@CaliforniaHighSchool

How do we lead in the face of fear, when the stakes feel sky high and relentlessly personal?

The realities of political violence, hostility, and burnout shape how we show up. And they can chip away at your generous heart, opening the path for cynicism and doubt.

But if we can focus on what matters most, feel through our emotions–and help others do the same–and orient our gaze forward to the vision of our lives, work, and world that we want, we create an energy that cynicism can’t easily break down, even through setbacks.

We need to protect our hope and conviction that change is possible. The future is not a done deal. We have choices about how it unfolds.

In this Unburdened Leader conversation, we explore what it takes to lead with clarity, protect our capacity, and still believe that change is possible, even when everything around us tries to tell us otherwise.

Amanda Litman is the cofounder and president of Run for Something, which recruits and supports young, diverse leaders running for local office. Since 2017, they’ve launched the careers of thousands of millennials and Gen Z candidates and in the process, changed what leadership looks like in America. She’s the author of two books: When We’re In Charge: The Next Generation’s Guide to Leadership and Run for Something: A Real-Talk Guide to Fixing the System Yourself, a how-to manual for people running for office.

Before launching Run for Something, Amanda worked on multiple presidential and statewide political campaigns. She graduated from Northwestern University and lives in Brooklyn with her husband, two daughters, and their sometimes rowdy dog.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

• How Amanda and the team at Run for Something support candidates in the face of real and present fears for their safety
• Why Gen Z’s refusal to accept “the way things are done” is energy we need 
• Why Amanda believes in the optimism of looking to what is possible
• Why getting involved on the local level is a powerful counter to pessimism
• The major disconnect of pop leadership advice with how most people encounter leadership
• How our current moment is making leadership uniquely challenging, isolating, and exhausting
• Why leadership isn’t about being your full self at work, but about responsible authenticity

Learn more about Amanda Litman:

• Website
• Run for Something
• Instagram: @amandalitm
• TikTok: @amandalitman
• Bluesky: @amandalitman.bsky.social
• Facebook: @amanda.litman
• Connect on LinkedIn

Learn more about Rebecca:

• rebeccaching.com
• Work With Rebecca
• The Unburdened Leader on Substack
• Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Resources:

• Run for Something: A Real-Talk Guide to Fixing the System Yourself
• When We're in Charge: The Next Generation's Guide to Leadership
• Dark Winds
• Along Came Amor, Alexis Daria
• You Had Me at Hola, Alexis Daria
• The Breakfast Club

Nostalgia can be a balm. Especially when we’re in what feels like a never-ending season of upheaval and change, where every time we start to get our footing, something shifts yet again.

When we’re in the throes of change–in the liminal space, the in-between, the in-betwixt–we as human beings are neurologically wired to seek out what’s known, to reach for comfort and what feels like home. And nostalgia does that for us. It’s no wonder we look back fondly on simpler times, real or imagined.

Because nostalgia isn’t necessarily the truth. And nostalgia doesn’t always serve our growth. Connecting over “Remember when?” can too easily divide us when it becomes a rigid longing for a past that excludes and harms others or ignores painful truths.

So many of us are living and leading in the confusion, disorientation, and discomfort of these liminal spaces of change. Which is why I invited today’s guest to join me for a conversation about the pulls of nostalgia, the discomfort of liminal space, and the courage it takes to lead ourselves and others through uncertainty without losing our way.

Chris Hoff, PhD, LMFT is a narrative therapist, educator, podcaster, and founder of the California Family Institute. His work explores the intersection of psychotherapy, poststructural theory, and speculative futures. Chris is known for his ability to translate complex ideas into pragmatic tools for clients and clinicians alike. He is the host of The Radical Therapist Podcast and co-editor of An Encyclopedia of Radical Helping. Chris’s teaching, writing, and consulting center the creative, relational, and political dimensions of healing and change.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

• How the concept of liminal space can help us normalize the push-pull of the known and the possible
• How the process of Narrative Therapy can help people reclaim agency and possibility 
• Why building coalitions with shared commitments is vital for making change across our differences
• How intentional scenario planning can help people and organizations see what they need to make the best-case scenario more likely
• How nostalgia can keep us stuck in problematic storylines about the past

Learn more about Chris Hoff, PhD, LMFT:

• Website
• California Family Institute
• The Radical Therapist Podcast
• Liminal Lab on Substack
• Instagram: @drchrishoff
• YouTube: @drchrishoff
• An Encyclopedia of Radical Helping, Erin Segal, Chris Hoff, Julie Cho

Learn more about Rebecca:

• rebeccaching.com
• Work With Rebecca
• The Unburdened Leader on Substack
• Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Resources:

• Man's Search for Meaning, Viktor Frankl
• The Gift of Therapy: An Open Letter to a New Generation of Therapists and Their Patients, Irvin Yalom
• Narrative Therapy
• Collective Cultural Action | The Critical Art Ensemble
• Beyond Community | Liminal Lab
• Therapy Rocks! | Against Nostalgia | Liminal Lab
• Zen at the End of Religion: An Introduction for the Curious, the Skeptical, and the Spiritual But Not Religious, James Ishmael Ford
• Philosophy for Militants, Alain Badiou
• The Years of Theory: Lectures on Modern French Thought, Fredric Jameson
• The 1975 - Somebody Else
• Andor
• Valley Girl
• Some Kind of Wonderful