The Unburdened Leader

The Unburdened Leader

Download on the App Store

The Unburdened Leader episodes

  • EP 166: How Family Patterns and Grief Shape How We Lead with J.S. Park

    None of us move through the world in isolation. We all carry histories, our nervous systems, familial and cultural narratives, and the strategies we unconsciously adopted to get by into every single room we enter.

    If we want to be better at being human with each other, we have to understand the systems we’re human inside of –– internally, in our relationships, and the larger social, political, and cultural systems we all live and work in. Those systems impact our choices and behaviors as we navigate life, often unconsciously, and it requires deep work to break out default patterns and learn what is really ours to carry.

    I’m thrilled to have returning guest, J.S. Park, back to the show to discuss his new book, We Are Made of Us, and do a deep dive into the journey of family systems and how they shape us.

    J.S. Park, MDiv, BCC, is a hospital chaplain whose roles include grief counseling, attending deaths, assisting with end-of-life care, and patient and family advocacy. His work has been featured on CNN, NPR, Today, and Good Morning America, among others. J.S. also served for three years as a chaplain at one of the largest nonprofit charities for the unhoused on the East Coast. He has a sixth-degree black belt and is the author of several books, including The Voices We Carry, As Long As You Need, and We Are Made of Us. He lives in Tampa, Florida, with his wife and two children.

    Listen to the full episode to hear:

    • How J.S.’s work as a hospital chaplain illuminated the ways we exist in systems and their capacity to hurt and to heal us
    • What he’s learned about holding space and compassion for people to be bad at grief
    • Why J.S. believes that people being able to feel and express grief is a justice issue
    • Why he has let go of the expectation that he should be regulated all the time in his work
    • How he approaches rupture and repair in his interactions with patient

    Learn more about J.S. Park:

    • Instagram: @jspark3000
    • Bluesky: @jspark3000.bsky.social
    • Substack: @jspark
    • We Are Made of Us: Uncovering Our Hidden Family Dynamics, Rewriting Our Stories, and Returning to Ourselves

    Learn more about Rebecca:

    • rebeccaching.com
    • Work With Rebecca
    • The Unburdened Leader on Substack
    • Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

    Resources:

    • Constructing the Sexual Crucible: An Integration of Sexual and Marital Therapy, David Schnarch
    • What My Bones Know: A Memoir of Healing from Complex Trauma, Stephanie Foo
    • The Autobiography of Malcolm X, MALCOLM X
    • “Golden,”  KPop Demon Hunters
    • The Odyssey
    • Widow’s Bay
    • Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story
    • Paddington


    Chapters:

    • (00:39) - Introduction
  • (09:22) - Welcome Back and New Book
  • (10:04) - Chaplaining Family Systems
  • (13:41) - Rethinking  What Health is Supposed to Look Like
  • (17:11) - Grief Catching Presence
  • (21:28) - Grief, Rage, and Justice
  • (27:02) - Staying Regulated in Chaos
  • (31:50) - Mistakes and Missed Moments
  • (35:38) - Rupture and Repair Practice
  • (44:58) - Why Psych Grad School Now
  • (51:10) - Quick Fire Questions
  • (01:04:42) - Where To Connect
  • (01:05:27) - Closing Thoughts

  • 1 hr 9 min
  • EP 165: The Cost of Invisibility: Power and Leadership with Crystal Echo Hawk

    So many of us have felt invisible at one time or another.

    We feel passed over, diminished, or unknown. And it takes a toll on our wellbeing.

    But many people are continually unseen in their full existence –– because of the color of their skin, the faith they hold, where they live in the world, the resources they don't have, or the various identities they carry.

    Not only does that impact an individual’s wellbeing, but when someone is invisible to us, we lose the ability to see them as human. And when someone isn't seen as human, we don't make decisions that consider their existence, their priorities, their needs. That is dehumanizing. And dangerous.

    Those of us with more access to role, status, or systemic power have a responsibility to notice who's being unseen and use that power and take action that actually changes circumstances.

    We're at a precarious place in our timeline, and for many people, waiting to be seen, chosen, and valued is not an option because the costs continue to be so great.

    My guest today kept asking herself, “Why are we not being seen?” She used her skills as a bridge builder, community connector, and fundraiser to build thriving and sustainable organizations and businesses where people in her community are seen in their fullness.

    Crystal Echo Hawk (Pawnee) is a nationally recognized strategist, movement builder, and cultural architect shaping the future of narrative power, media, and Indigenous leadership. She is the founder of Indigenous House, a next-generation global entertainment, culture, and lifestyle brand working with visionary Indigenous and diverse creators to shape culture across film, digital, and emerging platforms. Previously, she founded and led IllumiNative, driving a transformative shift in Indigenous representation nationwide.


    Listen to the full episode to hear:

    • How her daughter’s experiences of being bullied in school galvanized Crystal to focus her work on Native people’s visibility in our systems, institutions, and culture
    • Why Crystal and her colleagues started with building a dataset by, for, and about Native people as the basis for building visibility
    • How the educational and cultural landscape of the US perpetuates the erasure and dehumanization of Native people
    • What COVID laid bare about the life and death consequences of not being accounted for by government officials and policy makers
    • Why pop culture representation of contemporary Native people and life matters
    • How staying connected to joy and celebration of Native communities, as well as the legacies of her ancestors, keeps Crystal going
    • How the changing political and economic landscape caused Crystal to shift the vehicle for her work to founding Indigenous House
    • How racist team names impact fan behavior and culture and reinforce Native dehumanization

    Learn more about Crystal Echo Hawk:

    • Indigenous House
    • Instagram: @crystalechohawk; @indigenoushouse

    Learn more about Rebecca:

    • rebeccaching.com
    • Work With Rebecca
    • The Unburdened Leader on Substack
    • Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

    Resources:

    • EP 88: Right-Use-of-Power: Navigating Leadership Dynamics with Dr. Cedar Barstow
    • EP 153: Power Dynamics and Personal Power: Dr. Amanda Aguilera on the Right Use of Power
    • EP 125: Power, Regulation, and Leadership: Connecting to Your Personal Power with Dr. Amanda Aguilera
    • IllumiNative
    • Reclaiming Native Truth
    • Dr. Stephanie Fryberg
    • From Here to the Great Unknown, Lisa Marie Presley and Riley Keough
    • Start With Yourself: A New Vision for Work & Life, Emma Grede
    • Ella Langley
    • Kacey Musgraves
    • The West Wing
    • Ferris Bueller’s Day Off
    • Sixteen Candles
    • The Breakfast Club

    Chapters:

    • (00:42) - Introduction
  • (05:41) - Meet Crystal Echo Hawk
  • (09:22) - Origins of Indigenous House
  • (17:29) - The Cost of Invisibility - Dehuminization
  • (22:20) - The COVID Wake Up Call
  • (25:09) - Changing The Story
  • (32:21) - Sustaining The Long Game
  • (35:38) - Sunsetting IllumiNative, Opening Indigenous House
  • (40:08) - Economic and Cultural Power Shift
  • (45:04) - Sports Mascot 'Debate'
  • (51:31) - Defining Leadership
  • (53:41) - Quick-fire questions
  • (58:48) - Where to connect
  • (59:51) - Closing Thoughts

  • 1 hr 3 min
  • EP 164: Understanding Is Not Excusing: Dr. Ross Oakes Mueller on Conflict, Forgiveness, and Leadership

    What comes up for you when you think about conflict?

    For most of us, our reaction to real or perceived conflict happens before we even realize it or know why.

    The way we respond to conflict is shaped by our histories and temperaments, and it shapes how we lead ourselves and others. And if you have a fraught relationship with conflict, the real work isn’t becoming comfortable with conflict, it’s learning to stay with discomfort when you experience friction, rejection, or blowback.

    We have to learn not to personalize disagreement and update our internal narratives, coping strategies, and protective systems so that we can show up with more vulnerability, but without taking ourselves out.

    Easier said than done, as my guest today can attest. Ross Oakes Mueller is a dear friend, colleague, and psychology professor and researcher, who describes himself as conflict-avoidant by temperament. He joins me for a conversation reflecting on his regular rumble with conflict avoidance, what it really means to forgive, and what keeps us stuck in patterns of avoidance, resentment, and disconnection.

    Dr. Ross A. Oakes Mueller is a Professor of Psychology at Point Loma Nazarene University, where he has taught since 2007. His teaching and research focus on moral psychology and character development, with courses exploring virtue formation, moral emotions, the science of moral change, and the integration of psychological science with narrative and literary perspectives to foster empathy, self-understanding, and prosocial growth.

    Listen to the full episode to hear:

    • How Ross’s formative understanding of conflict and reconciliation led to years of self-denial and repressing his anger and grief
    • How he’s learned to recognize and tune in when he’s suppressing negative emotions
    • Unpacking the differences between decisional forgiveness and emotional forgiveness
    • Why experiencing grief is a vital part of coming to emotional forgiveness
    • What we know about the neuropsychology of empathy, its real limitations, and why it’s still not a bad thing
    • Two beliefs that often block our ability to emotionally forgive

    Learn more about Dr. Ross Oakes Mueller:

    • Faculty Page
    • Connect on LinkedIn

    Learn more about Rebecca:

    • rebeccaching.com
    • Work With Rebecca
    • The Unburdened Leader on Substack
    • Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

    Resources:

    • Piranesi, Susanna Clarke
    • Mumford & Sons, Chris Stapleton - Here
    • Hamnet
    • The Wonder Years

    Chapters:

    • (00:45) - Introduction
  • (06:02) - Welcome and Connections
  • (07:20) - Early Faith and Divorce
  • (10:22) - The Roots of Conflict Avoidance
  • (13:28) - Growing from Community Feedback
  • (18:43) - Avoidance Patterns
  • (21:24) - Decisional Forgiveness and Emotional Forgiveness
  • (33:06) - Grief as the Path to Forgiveness
  • (35:58) - Why Old Wounds Resurface
  • (39:32) - Internal and Interpersonal Tells
  • (42:38) - Empathy, Compassion, and Mindfulness Connections
  • (50:54) - The Blocks to Forgiveness
  • (56:42) - Defining Leadership
  • (58:59) - Quick-fire questions
  • (01:08:22) - Closing Thoughts

  • 1 hr 12 min
  • EP 163: The Cost of Going It Alone: David Gate on A Rebellion of Care and Collective Leadership

    We’re better together. We need community. We need the collective.

    We hear these ideas and believe in their truth. But when so many of us grew up learning that we’re supposed to do it all on our own, letting go of individualism takes a lot of conscious unlearning.

    An individualist lens on leadership tells us that when things go wrong, we’re both the source of the problem and responsible for the solution. We get stretched thin. We people please. We overfunction and overachieve, and still it never feels like we’re doing enough.

    Shifting to a systemic lens on leadership, one that asks what the whole system needs and who else belongs in the conversation, is the difficult work we need to do in order to embrace the collective not just in heart and mind, but in action.

    My guest today speaks to the challenges of navigating systems that still reward hyper-individualism and the need to build real trust in others and our communities through his poems, essays, and artwork with deep conviction and clarity. I am so excited for you to listen to our conversation.

    David Gate is a poet, writer and visual artist who hails from London, UK and now resides in the mists of the ancient Blue Ridge Mountains in Asheville, North Carolina.

    His work centers around care for the individual (heart, mind, body & soul) and the nurture of community (culture, the earth &  environment, the dignity of others and spiritual communities).

    Listen to the full episode to hear:

    • How the emotional distance and perspective of being in his 40s has shifted the lens of David’s writing
    • Why true caring for each other is an act of rebellion in our hyper-individualist culture
    • How a filter of care influences the choices David makes, both in the big picture and the day-to-day
    • How having experienced financial precarity can shift how people relate to their resources and communities
    • How the process of writing and editing A Rebellion of Care helped David rediscover the power of writing essays
    • The experience that helped David detach the practices of faith from the leadership norms that exist in many churches

    Learn more about David Gate:

    • davidgatepoet.com
    • Instagram: @davidgatepoet
    • A Rebellion of Care on Substack
    • A Rebellion of Care

    Learn more about Rebecca:

    • rebeccaching.com
    • Work With Rebecca
    • The Unburdened Leader on Substack
    • Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

    Resources:

    • Reclaiming My Theology Podcast
    • Absalom, Absalom! William Faulkner
    • Let the Poets Govern: A Declaration of Freedom, Camonghne Felix
    • Father John Misty - The Payoff
    • Andor
    • House of the Dragon
    • Masters of the Universe
    • He-Man and the Masters of the Universe
    • Joker: Folie à Deux

    Chapters:

    • (00:39) - Introduction
  • (06:42) - Reevaluating Inherited Culture
  • (09:47) - Unlearning Evangelicalism
  • (12:43) - Finding Emotional Stability
  • (14:15) - Power and American Evangelicalism
  • (16:22) - Why Care Is Rebellion
  • (19:35) - Defining Care In Practice
  • (22:34) - Mutual Aid And Money Fears
  • (27:20) - Work Myth And Poverty Proximity
  • (30:33) - Writing Process And Clarity
  • (34:40) - Seattle Church Breakthrough
  • (39:34) - Relationship with Privilege
  • (41:31) - Servant Leadership Redefined
  • (43:23) - Rapid Fire Questions
  • (51:59) - Where to Connect
  • (53:12) - Closing Thoughts

  • 57 min
  • EP 162: Dr. Alison Cook on the Secure Soul and Self-Leadership

    No matter how much we’d like it to be true, we can’t think our way into changing.

    We have so much information, language, and so many tools to help us understand what makes us tick right at our fingertips. And who doesn’t love a quiz, a personality test, a self-help book, or (ahem) a podcast that helps us make sense of ourselves and others in our personal and professional lives?

    Whether it’s Myers-Briggs, StrengthsFinder, your Enneagram, or your astrological chart, you probably have years’ worth of exposure to various categories, frameworks, and language to call on. And yet, you still feel like a stranger to yourself in the moments that matter most.

    Because we can’t intellectualize our way through change. We have to feel it. We have to do it.

    This is where trauma-informed leadership work actually lives, not in collecting more language for what's wrong with you or others, but in helping you recognize the echoes of your own story that are still running the show, and developing the skills to help you take action and choose differently.

    Today’s guest has spent her career studying people, the soul, and how we relate to ourselves and others. But in writing her most recent book, she found she had to dig deeper into her own story and start to really live the work herself. And when she started living things differently, she realized there was no looking back.

    Dr. Alison Cook is a therapist, psychologist of religion, bestselling author, and host of the top-ranked The Best of You podcast. Widely recognized for her ability to bridge faith and psychology in a way that is both deeply practical and spiritually alive, Dr. Alison has spent over two decades helping people move from feeling disconnected to feeling secure, grounded, and loved. Her books, including Boundaries for Your Soul and The Best of You, have sold over 150,000 copies. She and her husband, Joe, are the parents of two adult children and call the mountains of Wyoming home.

    Listen to the full episode to hear: 

    • How Alison navigated the personal and professional anxieties raised as she brought her own story into her new book
    • Why revisiting her adolescence was a deeply vulnerable but necessary piece of learning to notice her inner bids for connection
    • How minimizing our everyday wounds impacts us individually and as a culture
    • Why doing the inner work of witnessing yourself is part of getting your needs met in the outside world
    • Why self-awareness and conscious choice matter when it comes to engaging our controllers and escape hatches
    • How developing trust in her fundamental belovedness gives Alison the security to be accountable to the people in her life

    Learn more about Dr. Alison Cook:

    • Website
    • The Best of You Podcast
    • Instagram: @dralisoncook
    • Facebook: @dralisoncook
    • The Secure Soul: Finding Inner Strength and Connection When Trust Doesn't Come Easy

    Learn more about Rebecca:

    • rebeccaching.com
    • Work With Rebecca
    • The Unburdened Leader on Substack
    • Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

    Resources:

    • Footloose
    • Irvin D. Yalom
    • Dopamine Nation: Finding Balance in the Age of Indulgence, Anna Lembke MD
    • Into the Quiet: Following Jesus in a World of Noise, John Mark Comer
    • Taylor Swift - The Fate of Ophelia
    • Pretty in Pink

    Chapters:

    • (00:43) - Introduction
  • (09:46) - Belonging to Our Story
  • (15:53) - Anticipating the Costs
  • (19:28) - Rage Journaling and Attachment Wounds
  • (30:01) - Inner Work and Right Sized Needs
  • (34:22) - Controller Parts Explained
  • (40:22) - Recognize, Return, and Divine Love
  • (43:58) - Leadership Without Othering
  • (48:46) - Inner Life Shapes Leadership
  • (51:25) - Rapid Fire Questions
  • (55:30) - Where to Connect
  • (56:14) - Closing Thoughts

  • 1 hr
  • EP 161: Why High Performers Don’t Always Make a High-Performing Team with Jamie Shapiro

    What does connection mean to you? How do you know when you're feeling connected?

    Connection is foundational to building trust, and trust is an essential quality that any team or relationship needs to grow.

    Yet in many relationships, both personally and professionally, we tolerate disconnection. We miss the early signals of missed deadlines, the subtle cues of quiet resentment, and the team that’s compliant and even productive, but not engaged. 

    Until disconnection creates the distrust, the dis-ease, and the erosion of psychological safety that, left unchecked, hijacks even the strongest relationships, teams, and organizations.

    Leaders and their teams need to not only learn to identify markers of disconnection early, but to also develop the skills to repair it. The goal isn’t a team that never ruptures. It’s a team that knows how to reconnect.

    That’s why I’m so excited to talk with my guest today about her work that integrates well-being science, positive psychology, and systems-level leadership to help organizations uncover what it takes to build connected, thriving teams where well-being and high performance can truly coexist.

    Jamie Shapiro, PhD, is a Keynote Speaker, Master Certified Executive Coach, organizational psychologist, researcher and the CEO of Connected EC. Jamie’s approach blends science, strategy, and lived leadership experience to her work with CEOs and executive teams navigating growth, complexity, and cultural transformation.

    Jamie is the author of Brilliant: Be the Leader Who Shines Brightly Without Burning Out and Connected Culture: The New Science for Thriving Teams and Cultures. She is also the founder of the Leader and Organization Vitality (LOV) Center, a research institute that advances the science of leadership vitality, culture, and performance and bridges the gap between research and real-world practice.

    Listen to the full episode to hear: 

    • How Jamie’s personal experience with cycles of burnout in the corporate world informs her research and coaching practice
    • The physical, mental, and emotional impacts of trust and connection on teams
    • Why Jamie’s model for thriving teams has trust, care, and connection at its core
    • What corporate culture consistently gets wrong about candid communication and the number one way to improve it
    • What we can learn from chickens about building high-performing teams
    • How psychological safety and connection positively drive performance

    Learn more about Jamie Shapiro:

    • Connected EC
    • Connect on LinkedIn
    • Brilliant: Be The Leader Who Shines Brightly Without Burning Out
    • Connected Culture: The New Science for Thriving Teams and Cultures

    Learn more about Rebecca:

    • rebeccaching.com
    • Work With Rebecca
    • The Unburdened Leader on Substack
    • Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

    Resources:

    • Links 
    • The Gifts of Imperfection, Brené Brown
    • Loneliness: Human Nature and the Need for Social Connection, John T Cacioppo and William Patrick
    • The Neuroscience of Trust, Paul J. Zak | Harvard Business Review
    • The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth, Amy C. Edmondson
    • Right Use of Power Institute
    • Shaping Power for Good: Wayfinding to Right Relationship, Amanda Aguilera
    • Super-Chicken Model
    • Just One Word: The Surprisingly Simple Method to Discover Your Purpose and Unleash Your Power, Erin Weed
    • ILLENIUM
    • Off Campus
    • Voicemails for Isabelle
    • Sixteen Candles

    Chapters:

    • (00:22) - Introduction
  • (07:33) - New Book and Career Pivot
  • (11:33) - Support Systems
  • (13:38) - Burnout to Vitality Research
  • (16:10) - Trust Fuels Team Energy
  • (21:29) - Connection Model and Accountability
  • (24:36) - Defining candid communication
  • (27:59) - Psychological Safety Reframed
  • (30:00) - Listening and Power Dynamics
  • (32:58) - High Performer Chicken Study
  • (37:46) - From Doing To Being
  • (41:21) - Safety Versus Accountability Myth
  • (48:30) - Defining Leadership
  • (49:52) - Quick Fire Questions
  • (55:51) - How to Connect
  • (56:35) - Closing Thoughts

  • 1 hr
  • EP 160: Hiding Doesn't Keep You Safe: Mike Ganino on Visibility and Storytelling

    When the stakes rise and more is on the line, everything about visibility shifts –– what it means, what it costs, and what it asks of you.

    And if you ever experienced bullying, relational trauma, betrayal, or abuse, visibility can be more than just awkward or uncomfortable. Unprocessed echoes of those burdens can make the past feel like it is happening in the present.

    We have to do the work of building more trust within, getting clear on who and what really matters, and learning to follow our values even when we do not know the results.

    As my guest today reminded me, when we go silent, we may feel safe, but our voices are not out there, and others will step in to define the direction of conversations and the topics that matter most to us.

    Showing up and letting people see and hear you isn’t always easy, but with practice and courage, we can reshape the narratives we carry about ourselves and our visibility.

    Mike Ganino works with professional speakers, keynote speakers, and executives to help them create transformative speaking experiences worthy of standing ovations. As a keynote director with a background as an actor, writer, director, producer, hospitality executive, and corporate trainer, Mike learned to view storytelling and performance from the audience’s perspective and uses these insights and experiences to help his clients develop talks and performances that go beyond just wowing the audience to truly transform their thinking.


    Listen to the full episode to hear:

    • How a fourth-grade substitute teacher showed Mike the power of making people feel seen
    • Why getting comfortable with visibility requires us to address the relational wounds that have kept us quiet
    • What we can learn from actors about the choices we make as we show up and interact with others
    • Why developing as a speaker is a physical practice before it’s an intellectual practice
    • Two essential elements for telling an effective story
    • How fears of losing status and being misunderstood keeps us from showing up for ourselves and others

     

    Learn more about Mike Ganino:

    • https://mikeganino.com/
    • Instagram: @mikeganino
    • Facebook: @mikeganino
    • Connect on LinkedIn
    • Make a Scene: Storytelling, Stage Presence, and the Art of Being Unforgettable in Every Spotlight

    Learn more about Rebecca:

    • rebeccaching.com
    • Work With Rebecca
    • The Unburdened Leader on Substack
    • Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

    Resources:

    • The Face: A Natural History, Daniel McNeill
    • Ariana Grande
    • E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial

    Chapters:

    • (00:43) - Introduction
  • (08:36) - Fourth Grade Lessons
  • (13:28) - Healing Through Visibility
  • (16:59) - Safe Reps on Video
  • (21:40) - Authenticity vs Performance
  • (25:29) - Questioning the 'new and fresh'
  • (28:59) - Top Visibility Blocks
  • (31:24) - Gendered Speaking Habits
  • (37:36) - Storytelling For an Integrated Life
  • (41:05) - Status Loss and Feedback
  • (45:45) - Who you take notes from matters
  • (49:56) - Inner Child And Leadership
  • (50:51) - Defining Leadership
  • (52:00) - Embracing the Complexities
  • (53:56) - Rapid Fire
  • (58:05) - Making Connections
  • (59:00) - Closing Thoughts

  • 1 hr 3 min
  • EP 159: MILCK on Self-Trust, Healing, and Creative Leadership


    A lot of people feel like they know who they're supposed to be, how they're supposed to show up, and what they're supposed to value, and they assume those things come from themselves instead of external influences. 


    But we all have internalized beliefs and expectations from others, our culture, and the systems we live in. It takes a beat, sometimes a long one, to get clear on who you actually are and what is actually important to you. It requires building the kind of deep self-trust that allows you to act from your values even when the world is suggesting otherwise.


    And if you carry relational wounds or other interpersonal or socio-cultural burdens, those experiences can slow down or block your capacity to deepen self-trust, trust in others, grow in courage, and fully inhabit your whole story. That is not a character flaw. It is a developmental reality.


    My guest today models what becomes possible when you stop performing the version of yourself the world approved of and start trusting yourself and leading from that space. She is building a career and a creative practice rooted in self-trust and values alignment, and she is far from done.


    MILCK, born Connie K. Lim, is a self-proclaimed gentle rebel whose artistry and advocacy is fueled by her music. Her breakout anthem “Quiet” became a global sensation, championing women’s rights and resonating with movements around the globe. MILCK has collaborated with notable artists such as John Legend, Natasha Bedingfield, Phillipa Soo, Ani DiFranco, Aloe Blacc, and LeAnn Rimes, blending soulful melodies with poignant, socially conscious lyrics. 


    Beyond the recording industry, MILCK is expanding her creative reach into musical theater, advocacy, and mentorship; MILCK and artists Sam Chanse, Jess Mcleod, and AG have partnered with La Jolla Playhouse to develop The Family Album, an award-winning seriocomedy musical. Inspired by MILCK's life journey, the musical explores themes of healing and family.


    Listen to the full episode to hear:

    • How “Quiet” began as a means to process her own story and turned into an anthem
    • How personal, creative, and therapeutic supports came together to help Connie find her truth and her voice and connect with audiences
    • The discouragement of her dreams Connie received as a kid and why her younger self is delighted with her now
    • How working on The Family Album has been healing for Connie and her family
    • Developing the confidence and self-trust to push boundaries and be an emotional bridge
    • How the all-female creative team behind The Family Album musical came together


    Learn more about MILCK:

    • Website
    • Instagram: @milckmusic
    • MILCK on Bandcamp
    • Get tickets to The Family Album



    Learn more about Rebecca:

    • rebeccaching.com
    • Work With Rebecca
    • The Unburdened Leader on Substack
    • Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

    Resources:

    • Childhood and Society, Erik H Erikson
    • In Over Our Heads: The Mental Demands of Modern Life, Robert Kegan
    • Roxy Music - Avalon
    • Couples Therapy
    • Tears For Fears



    Chapters:

    • (00:37) - Introduction
  • (07:35) - Meet Connie Kim aka MILCK
  • (13:36) - Quiet - Origins and Cost
  • (18:22) - Therapy and Support Mirrors
  • (20:55) - Musical Beginnings
  • (25:31) - Younger Self and Healing
  • (29:14) - Turning Life Into A Musical
  • (32:36) - Fighting to Stay Connected to Family
  • (37:15) - Pushing Boundaries for Healing and Growing
  • (41:19) - Conflict and the Wisdom of the Past
  • (46:12) - Family Album Origin Story
  • (55:35) - Opening Night Emotions
  • (57:29) - Defining Leadership
  • (58:48) - Quick Fire Questions
  • (01:02:55) - How to Connect
  • (01:04:34) - Closing Thoughts

  • 1 hr 8 min
  • EP 158: Stop Waiting Until You’re Ready: Sylvia Kwan on Women, Wealth, and Leadership

    How many times have you talked yourself out of pursuing an opportunity, telling yourself it wasn't for you, that you weren’t ready, or you weren’t qualified?

    What if that hesitation wasn't self-awareness but a script you internalized?

    Many women have a complicated relationship with their ambitions for greater leadership and greater wealth. And it isn’t because women are somehow inherently less suited for leadership or financial independence. The systems of power, patriarchy, sexism, and misogyny that we live in every day shape the voice in women’s heads that tells them they’re not meant to be a leader.

    We are in a political and cultural moment where women’s rights and autonomy are facing incredible pushback at all levels. It’s vital that we examine our internalized biases towards ourselves and others, where we limit our ambitions for roles we have the skills and abilities for, and where we’re giving up our power because of the stories we’ve been told by our society.

    My guest today is a beautiful example of a woman who hadn’t considered herself for a CEO role, but who stepped into the position and has grown into the kind of leader we just might need most right now. In our conversation, we talk a lot about women and finances and also about what we believe about our abilities and the opportunities we deserve to pursue.

    Sylvia Kwan is a Chartered Financial Analyst with more than 30 years of industry experience. Prior to Ellevest, she founded SimplySmart Asset Management and held senior portfolio management positions at Financial Engines and Charles Schwab. Sylvia serves on the Board of Exit 182, the investment committee that oversees the endowment of Grinnell College.
     


    Listen to the full episode to hear: 

    • How Sylvia’s commitment to Ellevest’s mission bolstered her through the abrupt and sometimes isolating shift into being CEO
    • How she navigated the tension between wanting to be transparent with her team and needing to project calm
    • The scripts about who she is and the work she excels at that Sylvia had to rewrite, and why it’s a continuing process
    • How the financial industry subconsciously reinforces sexist ideas about women and money
    • Why taking the stigma out of women talking about money is a key piece of closing the gender wealth gap
    • How women accruing wealth actually supports communities and creates more equity
    • How convoluted jargon and perfectionism keep women from getting started with investing

    Learn more about Sylvia Kwan, PhD, CFA, CAIA: 

    • Ellevest
    • Instagram: @ellevest
    • Connect on LinkedIn

    Learn more about Rebecca:

    • rebeccaching.com
    • Work With Rebecca
    • The Unburdened Leader on Substack
    • Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

    Resources: 

    • EP 88: Right-Use-of-Power: Navigating Leadership Dynamics with Dr. Cedar Barstow
    • Right Use of Power: The Heart of Ethics: A Guide and Resource for Professional Relationships, Dr. Cedar Barstow
    • The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love, bell hooks
    • Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny, Kate Manne 
    • Women leaders make work better. Here’s the science behind how to promote them
    • Power with purpose: How women's leadership boosts the economy and society | Devex
    • Whidbey, T Kira Madden
    • CeCe Winans - Goodness of God
    • Ted Lasso

    Chapters:

    • (00:42) - Introduction
  • (11:55) - Sudden CEO Transition
  • (14:15) - Self Trust and Mission
  • (17:45) - Leading Through Uncertainty
  • (22:48) - Rewriting the Leadership Script
  • (27:10) - Finance Industry Gender Gap
  • (33:48) - Myths About Women and Wealth
  • (36:24) - Complexity Masquerading as Sophistication
  • (39:46) - Roadblocks and Getting Started Now
  • (44:31) - Defining Leadership
  • (46:22) - Embracing the Complexities
  • (48:27) - Quick Fire Questions
  • (53:35) - How to Connect
  • (54:26) - Closing Thoughts

  • 58 min
  • EP 157: The Ambition Penalty: Stefanie O'Connell on Why Wanting More Still Costs Women

    Say the word ambition, especially around women, and it brings up a complicated mix of emotions and beliefs.

    If you're not succeeding, you're not ambitious enough. If you are succeeding, wanting a lot, and going for it, you're too ambitious, and you get penalized or punished. It happens at work, at home, and in the communities we move through every day.

    There are so many mixed messages about ambition and success coming at us from every direction. And it's not just imposed from the outside.
    For many women, those messages get internalized and shape the way we present ourselves and communicate about our work and personal lives. We start to police our own ambition, and we police each other's ambition.

    My guest today names the invisible norms around women’s ambitions, and calls out the ways that organizations perpetuate bias, even as they think they’re playing fair. Her work is extensively researched, tracing the roots of the tension around ambition, and also offers language and an opportunity for us to reclaim our ambitions together.
     
    Stefanie O’Connell is an award-winning journalist and author of The Ambition Penalty: How Corporate Culture Tells Women to Step Up– and Then Pushes Them Down. Her work dismantles the myths keeping women from equitable pay, leadership and power — one data point at a time.


    Listen to the full episode to hear:

    • The material costs of what happens when women speak up, lean in, and get ambitious
    • How implicit and gendered double standards around power keep women out of leadership
    • Why encouraging ambition in girls doesn’t translate into celebrating ambition in women
    • How people and organizations that believe they are meritocratic end up reinforcing the most bias
    • Why we can’t self-optimize our way out of systemic inequality, and why we need collective action
    • Six key elements for reframing burnout as an environmental problem, not a personal one
    • Why we need to push back against framing women being pushed out of the work force as “empowerment” and challenge sexism in our everyday lives 

    Learn more about Stefanie O'Connell:

    • Website
    • Too Ambitious on Substack
    • Instagram: @stefanieoconnell
    • Threads: @stefanieoconnell
    • TikTok: @stefaniemoconnell
    • The Ambition Penalty

    Learn more about Rebecca:

    • rebeccaching.com
    • Work With Rebecca
    • The Unburdened Leader on Substack
    • Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

    Resources:

    • EP 155: Hidden Cost of Caretaking at Work: Nilofer Merchant on Invisible Norms Limiting Your Leadership
    • Stop Punishing Women for Being Ambitious | Bloomberg
    • Maslach, Christina. (1998). A Multidimensional Theory of Burnout. 10.1093/oso/9780198522799.003.0004. 
    • My Mother's Daughter: Finding Myself in My Family's Fractured Past, Tracy Clark-Flory 
    • Ragtime (2025 Broadway Cast Recording)
    • Mad Men

    Chapters:

    • (00:07) - Introduction
  • (07:14) - Meet Stephanie OConnell
  • (10:30) - The Ambition Penalty
  • (14:06) - The Ambition Double-Standard
  • (19:51) - The Shame of Ambition
  • (22:34) - Women Colluding with The Harm
  • (28:50) - Hustle Culture
  • (32:26) - Maslach's Burnout Framework
  • (39:01) - Reframing Empowerment
  • (42:06) - Leveraging our Collective Power
  • (48:16) - Quick Fire Questions
  • (53:02) - How To Connect
  • (54:05) - Closing Thoughts

  • 57 min

About The Unburdened Leader

From the publisher's feed

Meet leaders who recognized their own pain, worked through it, and stepped up into greater leadership. Each week, we dive into how leaders like you deal with struggle and growth so that you can lead…

More shows like The Unburdened Leader

Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson by Rick Hanson, Ph.D., Forrest Hanson

Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson

2,514 Listeners

The Daily by The New York Times

The Daily

111,825 Listeners

The One Inside: An Internal Family Systems (IFS) podcast by Tammy Sollenberger

The One Inside: An Internal Family Systems (IFS) podcast

279 Listeners

Trauma Rewired by Elisabeth Kristof & Jennifer Wallace

Trauma Rewired

365 Listeners

We Can Do Hard Things by Treat Media and Glennon Doyle

We Can Do Hard Things

41,351 Listeners

Pulling The Thread with Elise Loehnen by Elise Loehnen

Pulling The Thread with Elise Loehnen

1,106 Listeners

The Mel Robbins Podcast by Mel Robbins

The Mel Robbins Podcast

18,916 Listeners

The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant by Vox Media Podcast Network

The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant

370 Listeners