In this raw, unfiltered, and unexpectedly moving conversation, Jay Allen sits down with Ben Goodheart—founder of Magpie Human Systems and co-host of Punk Rock Safety—to talk about what happens after you buy into the principles of Human & Organizational Performance. From pediatric heart surgeries to punk rock field trips, Ben brings honesty, humility, and humor to the safety world in a way few can.

They explore:

• What it's like observing literal life-saving work in hospitals
• Why “being human” is a philosophy, not just a polo shirt
• The tension between simplicity and certainty in safety leadership
• How AI tools are helping safety pros reclaim time for human connection
• The real story behind Punk Rock Safety (and Neanderthal DNA)
• Why asking “now what?” might be the most important part of your HOP journey

Recorded live at Energy Safety Canada, this episode is more than a chat—it’s a signal to stay grounded, stay curious, and never believe your own hype.

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