Ep.08 ~ Perceived Liberation 

“I don’t know. You know, I’ve read a lot of stuff, I’ve been taking teachings from a lot of different types of schools of philosophy, of practice. They say that liberation is being able to live in your natural state, the natural state. On the Hindu side, it’s called sahaja samahdi, the easy natural state. In Tibetan Buddhism, it’s called Mahamudra or Zogchen or Rigpa, awareness, natural, natural state.  I don’t think about it that much anymore, you know? I want to be living a good life in a good way. I want to be happy. I want to at least be in the ring with my bullshit, you know? So I’m not knocked out of the ring by it. I want to be in there with it.  And to me, that’s a good place to be.” –  Krishna Das

Transcription:

Q:  So I think you already answered it, but I wanted to ask you what is it that you perceive as liberation?

KD: That’s a good question for somebody.  I don’t know. You know, I’ve read a lot of stuff, I’ve been taking teachings from a lot of different types of schools of philosophy, of practice. They say that liberation is being able to live in your natural state, the natural state. On the Hindu side, it’s called sahaja samahdi, the easy natural state. In Tibetan Buddhism, it’s called Mahamudra or Zogchen or Rigpa, awareness, natural, natural state.  I don’t think about it that much anymore, you know? I want to be living a good life in a good way. I want to be happy. I want to at least be in the ring with my bullshit, you know? So I’m not knocked out of the ring by it. I want to be in there with it.  And to me, that’s a good place to be. I would simply say, I would, I want to be with Maharajji all the time. That would be my liberation, my state, and in order to do that, since He lives within me as my own true nature, my own true Self, in order to get there, I have to go through all my nonsense, my own stuff, to live in that place. We touch it at times, but then our own stuff, our minds, our stuff pull us out of it. So we have to keep coming back again. That’s the way I see it.

Q: You’re there when at certain times, maybe not 24-7.

KD: Well, we’re  always here, 24-7. We’re just not aware of it. Simple. We’re always here. Where else would we be? But our minds and our attachment to our thoughts and our emotions and our perceptions and our sensual sense information fascinate us. It’s like being a kid at a carnival, you know? “Wow, I want that ride.” So, the price to pay for that is you have to take the ride and then when it’s over, you’re back, screwed up again, so yeah, it’s coming and going all the time but really we’re always here. Where else could we possibly be? In the depths of despair, you’re still here, it just hurts like hell, you know? On the height of pleasure, you’re still here but you’re not paying attention, because we’re immersed, we’re lost in that stuff.

Q: So you are liberated sometimes?

KD: Well, there’s schools of thought that nothing ever happened, ever. Anywhere. Prove it to me. I think I’m me. That’s the problem. You know? As long as I think that, as long as I believe that, based on my daily experience, which includes those moments when I’m liberated from it, temporarily. Most of the time, it’s not where I live yet, you know? It’s not the ground I walk on. So, yeah, of course, we’re always here, but you can’t talk yourself into that.

Suggestions for your practice: Devi Sadhana | Sri Ram Kirtan Sadhana

Call and Response podcasts are made possible by the Kirtan Wallah Foundation

Your support via direct donations go toward offerings such as this series, new teaching materials,  as well as the the compilation of all of KD’s work on the Path, for the purpose of sharing it with everyone in a variety of media. Kirtan Wallah Foundation is also be able to offer assistance to...