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The guest on episode 4 was Investigator McCulloch, a fire captain and fire investigator, who shared his experience preparing for a jury trial involving a fire started by a transient person and causing fire damage to a concrete sidewalk. He detailed the challenges he faced, including the defense citing and questioning specifics from Kirk's Fire Investigation, like concrete discoloration caused by the fire, biases, and more. Ryan explained how he utilized AI to prepare for questioning on certain sections of NFPA 921 and emphasized the importance of paying attention to objections during his testimony. The hosts also covered Ryan's transition from working in fire suppression to becoming an investigator.  The word of the day, "saponification," was defined and used in a sentence related to commercial kitchen fires, and a new "phrase" of the episode was given. The episode teased an interview with an author of Kirk's Fire Investigation for the next episode.

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