Catherine is joined by Dr. Tom Ginsburg, Professor of International Law and Political Science at the University of Chicago, to discuss his recent article “Authoritarian International Law?” in the American Journal of International Law. Their wide-ranging conversation explores the liberal foundation of international law, how countries with authoritarian governments may be re-writing those very foundations, and the implications that can have for democracies. Catherine and Dr. Ginsburg also discuss the responses to the COVID-19 pandemic in states around the world and why those responses may not quite be a harbinger of new authoritarian trends.