Moderated again by host Steve James, Rupert and award-winning poet and author Henry Shukman pick up their discussion from a few months earlier. Here they discuss the practice of art and its connection with spirituality.

Amidst sharing observations on one another's artistic evolution, they discuss in depth their respective apprenticeships. At first artistic, then spiritual, the training for both men involved total immersion in traditional forms and, crucially, surrender to a master teacher. They consider such lengthy, one-to-one training in relation to their desire to make the teaching available to large numbers of people. Is it possible to go deeply with those few who are interested and, simultaneously, widely to many?

Regarding what makes impactful spiritual art, they concur that artists with great humanity can enter very deeply into the whole human drama with powerful empathy and understanding, and thereby convey what is eternal and universal.