On this episode of Crazy Wisdom, I’m joined by David Pope, Commissioner on the Wyoming Stable Token Commission, and Executive Director Anthony Apollo, for a wide-ranging conversation that explores the bold, nuanced effort behind Wyoming’s first-of-its-kind state-issued stable token. I’m your host Stewart Alsop, and what unfolds in this dialogue is both a technical unpacking and philosophical meditation on trust, financial sovereignty, and what it means for a government to anchor itself in transparent, programmable value. We move through Anthony’s path from Wall Street to Web3, the infrastructure and intention behind tokenizing real-world assets, and how the U.S. dollar’s future could be shaped by state-level innovation. If you're curious to follow along with their work, everything from blockchain selection criteria to commission recordings can be found at stabletoken.wyo.gov.

Check out this GPT we trained on the conversation!

Timestamps

00:00 – David Pope and Anthony Apollo introduce themselves, clarifying they speak personally, not for the Commission. You, Stewart, set an open tone, inviting curiosity and exploration.

05:00 – Anthony shares his path from traditional finance to Ethereum and government, driven by frustration with legacy banking inefficiencies.

10:00 – Tokenized bonds enter the conversation via the Spencer Dinwiddie project. Pope explains early challenges with defining “real-world assets.”

15:00 – Legal limits of token ownership vs. asset title are unpacked. You question whether anything “real” has been tokenized yet.

20:00 – Focus shifts to the Wyoming Stable Token: its constitutional roots and blockchain as a tool for fiat-backed stability without inflation.

25:00 – Comparison with CBDCs: Apollo explains why Wyoming’s token is transparent, non-programmatic, and privacy-focused.

30:00 – Legislative framework: the 102% backing rule, public audits, and how rulemaking differs from law. You explore flexibility and trust.

35:00 – Global positioning: how Wyoming stands apart from other states and nations in crypto policy. You highlight U.S. federalism’s role.

40:00 – Topics shift to velocity, peer-to-peer finance, and risk. You connect this to Urbit and decentralized systems.

45:00 – Apollo unpacks the stable token’s role in reinforcing dollar hegemony, even as BRICS move away from it.

50:00 – Wyoming’s transparency and governance as financial infrastructure. You reflect on meme coins and state legitimacy.

55:00 – Discussion of Bitcoin reserves, legislative outcomes, and what’s ahead. The conversation ends with vision and clarity.

Key Insights

1. Wyoming is pioneering a new model for state-level financial infrastructure. Through the creation of the Wyoming Stable Token Commission, the state is developing a fully-backed, transparent stable token that aims to function as a public utility. Unlike privately issued stablecoins, this one is mandated by law to be 102% backed by U.S. dollars and short-term treasuries, ensuring high trust and reducing systemic risk.
2. The stable token is not just a tech innovation—it’s a philosophical statement about trust. As David Pope emphasized, the transparency and auditability of blockchain-based financial instruments allow for a shift toward self-auditing systems, where trust isn’t assumed but proven. In contrast to the opaque operations of legacy banking systems, the stable token is designed to be programmatically verifiable.
3. Tokenized real-world assets are coming, but we’re not there yet. Anthony Apollo and David Pope clarify that most "real-world assets" currently tokenized are actually equity or debt instruments that represent ownership structures, not the assets themselves. The next leap will involve making the token itself the title, enabling true fractional ownership of physical or financial assets without intermediary entities.
4. This initiative strengthens the U.S. dollar rather than undermining it. By creating a transparent, efficient vehicle for global dollar transactions, the Wyoming Stable Token could bolster the dollar’s role in international finance. Instead of competing with the dollar, it reinforces its utility in an increasingly digital economy—offering a compelling alternative to central bank digital currencies that raise concerns around surveillance and control.
5. Stable tokens have the potential to become major holders of U.S. debt. Anthony Apollo points out that the aggregate of all fiat-backed stable tokens already represents a top-tier holder of U.S. treasuries. As adoption grows, state-run stable tokens could play a crucial role in sovereign debt markets, filling gaps left by foreign governments divesting from U.S. securities.
6. Public accountability is central to Wyoming’s approach. Unlike private entities that can change terms at will, the Wyoming Commission is legally bound to go through a public rulemaking process for any adjustments. This radical transparency offers both stability and public trust, setting a precedent for how digital public infrastructure can be governed.
7. The ultimate goal is to build a bridge between traditional finance and the Web3 future. Rather than burn the old system down, Pope and Apollo are designing the stable token as a pragmatic transition layer—something institutions can trust and privacy advocates can respect. It’s about enabling safe experimentation and gradual transformation, not triggering collapse.