In this episode Dr. Bill Miller, Professor of Psychology and Psychiatry may be best known for his framework on motivational interviewing.

Dr. Miller shares a bit of his path as a clinician and how he finds his work at the intersection of psychology and spirituality.

He and Eli discuss his most recent work with ambivalent clients, and client systems. Which utilizes techniques such as rolling with resistance and changing how systemic therapists can reframe the concept of low motivation by engaging with empathy and alliance.