The Systemic Way

In this episode, we sit down with David Denborough, a leading figure in narrative therapy and community work, to explore the fascinating journey that brought him to this transformative approach. David shares the early influences that connected his values and beliefs with narrative ideas, offering insight into the foundational stories that shaped his practice.

We dive into his relationship with the Dulwich Centre, the renowned hub of narrative therapy, uncovering how he became part of this vibrant community and the ways it bridges local and global communities. David reflects on the bi-directional flow of influence between the Dulwich Centre and the communities it engages with—work that has taken him from Australia to the UN, and to partnerships with Aboriginal communities, Ncazelo Ncube, and projects in Palestine.

Through projects like Tree of Life, Team of Life, and Kite of Life, David illustrates how narrative practices can transform lives and empower communities. We discuss the core ideas—what David calls the “spirits of practice”—that guide his work, including the life of stories, storytelling rights, reclaiming our lives, and challenging normality.

Finally, David shares his hopes for the future, envisioning how narrative practices can continue to inspire activism, resistance, and community building. This is a must-listen episode for anyone curious about the intersection of therapy, community, and social justice.

In this episode with speak with Dr Dwight Turner who shares his thoughts, ideas and reflections on his two books Intersections of privilege and otherness in counselling and psychotherapy: Mockingbird (2021) and The Psychology of Supremacy: Imperium (2023).

Dwight shares his personal stories around his early life, career and training as a psychotherapist weaving through themes of race, power, intersectionality and privilege. He talks about the creation of otherness and ways to deepen our understanding and relationship to the concepts so that we can develop anti-oppressive and safe spaces for people we meet, live and work with. He invites us into an exploration of interdental difference, alongside discussing the deeper unconscious understanding of difference, and how privilege plays a role in the construction of otherness. Dwight shares from the filed of post-colonial theory, feminist discourse, amongst other theoretical areas. 



BIO

Dr Dwight Turner is Course Leader on the Humanistic Counselling and Psychotherapy Course at the University of Brighton, a PhD Supervisor at their Doctoral College, a psychotherapist and supervisor in private practice. An activist, writer and public speaker on issues of race, difference and intersectionality in counselling and psychotherapy, Dr Turner can be contacted via his website www.dwightturnercounselling.co.uk and can be followed on Twitter at @dturner300.

References:

Turner, D. (2021). Intersections of privilege and otherness in counselling and psychotherapy: Mockingbird. Routledge.


Turner, D. (2023). The Psychology of Supremacy: Imperium. Taylor & Francis.

In this episode we are joined by the Association for Family Therapy (AFT)'s Diversity Working Party (DWP) - Race Group. 

The group share their experiences of meeting and working together and their ongoing commitment to bring race to the forefront of our practice. The members talk about the complexity of grappling with this. Alongside this, they share the energy, passion and playfulness with which they endeavour to create safety to explore race in a meaningful way that can support changes in training, therapeutic practice and organisational contexts. 

We are joined by Shakira Maknoon, Prudencia Woode, Jennifer Achan, John Burnham, Amell El guenuni, Jan Lampard, and Emma Louise.

In this episode we talk with Khara Croswaite Brindle about her book Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships.

We hear about how therapists can prepare to address ruptured mother daughter relationships in a therapeutic space. Whether it is repairing the estrangement or preparing for it, Khara takes us through the cycle of estrangement and offers tools to manage the different stages. We focus on areas such as identifying the cycle, challenges of each stage and how to attend to these in a skilful and therapeutic way.

Khara bio:

Khara Croswaite Brindle is a licensed mental health therapist in private practice in Denver, Colorado. She holds various roles, including financial therapist, TEDx Speaker, burnout consultant, author, and professor. Her book is Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships: Guiding the Adult Daughter’s Healing Journey through the Estrangement Energy Cycle (Rowman & Littlefield, July 1, 2023).

In this episode we are joined by Ozlem Kose PhD to discuss an article she co-wrote with Fatma Arıcı-Şahin & Ahmet Abakay, A Tale of Three Sisters: A Movie Analysis from Critically Informed Family Therapy Perspective. Journal of Feminist Family Therapy, 33(4), 315-329 (Kose et al 2019).

Özlem Köse, an associate with Couple and Family Therapy Montreal, holds a Ph.D. in medical family therapy and is a registered clinical counsellor boasting 15 years’ experience in individual, couple and family therapy.

Ozlem invites us to talk with her about the film A Tale of Three Sisters (2019) by acclaimed Turkish film maker Emin Alper. The film follows the stories of three young girls who are taken from rural, central Anatolia to work for affluent families as foster children. We discuss systemic themes such as intergenerational patterns, roles, gender, culture and power and how these ideas are woven into this intimate family drama.


Ozlem bio:

Özlem Köse, an associate with Couple and Family Therapy Montreal, holds a Ph.D. in medical family therapy and is a registered clinical counsellor boasting 15 years’ experience in individual, couple and family therapy. With a strong background in trauma-informed and evidence-based systemic therapy, Özlem counsels individuals and couples on issues such as relationship conflict, separation and divorce, relational traumas (e.g., C-PTSD, emotional neglect and abuse), infidelity, management of chronic illness as a couple, couples’ sexual desire discrepancy and early childhood trauma. Özlem has extensive training and supervision in Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), which is one of the only scientifically validated couple therapy approaches.

Besides her clinical work with couples and adults, Özlem has a background in school counselling and enjoys working with teens on a variety of issues. She is also trained as a behavioural health specialist, helping individuals and couples improve their overall health and achieve their behavioural health goals such as weight loss, exercise and illness management. Özlem works in English and Turkish.

Paper reference:

Köse, Ö., Arıcı-Şahin, F., & Abakay, A. (2021). A Tale of Three Sisters: A Movie Analysis from Critically Informed Family Therapy Perspective. Journal of Feminist Family Therapy, 33(4), 315-329.

Film:

Original title: Kiz Kardesler
Director: Emin Alper

Dr Jamila Holcomb is a marriage and family therapist and supervisior in Florida joins us to discuss racial trauma. Given the current climate and the ongoing wrestle with racism and its impact on communities and individuals this episode offers essential tools for anti racist practice.

Jamila takes us through the important area of racial trauma in clinical settings. We hear her talk about defining racial trauma, barriers to addressing it, clinical best practices for therapists and supervisors and a call to the field!

https://www.holcombcounselingandconsulting.com/

In this episode we speak with Marianne Le Coyte Grinney about mental health and tech. Marianne is the founder of Held Mind an organisation that offers training, support and consultation on mental health, sobriety and recovery on platforms such as web 3 and discord. She takes us through her personal and professional journey with the world of tech and the need to understand this world and why mental health matters in these communities. We hear about the culture of these platforms, inclusivity and the growing dilemmas and conversations around making these spaces safe and accessible to everyone.

Bio:
Marianne Le Coyte Grinney, the founder of Held Mind and Founding Member of Therapist’s DAO is a dynamic force in mental health services. Juggling roles as a psychotherapist and clinical lead in the UK’s NHS, Mental Health advisor for World of Women, Director of IRIS Psychotherapy and Labour Party councillor.

She’s a recognized presence in web3, relentlessly advancing social justice and mental health access. As one of the 100 most inspirational women in web3, Marianne utilises this momentum to destigmatise and advocate for universal access to mental health and recovery support. Her passion, innovation, and steadfast commitment to social justice continue to make her a vital figure in web3 and beyond.


https://www.heldmind.com/

In this episode of The Systemic Lens, we delve into the enchanting world of Disney's "Encanto" through the lens of systemic psychotherapy. Join us as we explore the complex dynamics of the Madrigal family, analysing how intergenerational trauma, familial roles, and cultural expectations shape their magical and emotional experiences. 

We examine the dual nature of the family's gifts as both blessings and burdens, the impact of secrecy and communication breakdowns, and the journey of healing and reconciliation. Discover how the symbolism in the film represents psychological and emotional states and how Mirabel's unique role highlights themes of self-acceptance and family unity. Whether you're a fan of the film or fascinated by family therapy, this episode offers a captivating and insightful perspective on one of Disney's most heartfelt stories.

We meet with our colleagues Anokh, Naz and Danilen to share personal & professional connections, inspirations and questions about Encanto relationship with our field. Through its imagery, stories and songs we go on a journey that invites you to playfully engage with systemic ideas.

Our home is the theme for Refugee Week in 2024. In this special episode, we are dedicating our discussion to exploring and highlighting the crucial work being done to support refugees and young asylum seekers. We have the privilege of speaking with Nsimire, a leading professional in the field, who will share her direct experiences in building supportive relationships with refugees and also challenging the single stories that can dominate the fields description of refugee mental health.

Nsimire will take us through her personal journey and deep commitment to this work, revealing how she creates a sense of home for those she helps. Her approach is deeply informed by narrative practice, teamwork, and a culturally attuned perspective. She will discuss the key considerations for effective support, emphasizing the importance of understanding each individual's unique story and cultural background.

Join us as we delve into Nsimire's impactful work and learn about the strategies and insights that enable her to foster a welcoming and supportive environment for refugees and young asylum seekers. This episode is a tribute to the resilience and strength of those who seek a new home and the professionals dedicated to helping them find it.

Link to Refugee week:

https://refugeeweek.org.uk/

David Pocock , Systemic Family Psychotherapist, Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist, author and lecturer, joins us to discuss his influential paper, "A Philosophy of Practice for Systemic Psychotherapy: The Case for Critical Realism." (2015) In this session, we revisit the paper almost ten years after its initial publication to examine its enduring themes and its significant contribution to the field of family therapy. David explains what critical realism is and how it manifests in therapeutic practice, highlighting its role in bridging the gap between structuralism and post-structuralism and combines moderate realism with moderate constructionism. 

David provides an accessible and insightful overview of the paper, demonstrating how critical realism supports a coherent, accountable, and robust understanding of therapeutic practice. Through this discussion, we gain a deeper appreciation for the practical applications of critical realism in systemic psychotherapy, and how it enhances the therapist's ability to navigate complex relational dynamics within diverse family systems. This review underscores the continued relevance and value of critical realism as a philosophical foundation for effective and ethical therapeutic practice.

Reference:

Pocock, D. (2015). A philosophy of practice for systemic psychotherapy: The case for critical realism. Journal of Family Therapy, 37(2), 167-183.