Equiosity

Dr Sarah Memmi is a behavioral scientist. She teaches at the University of Louisville in Kentucky where she’s an Assistant Professor of Marketing in the College of Business. Her main area of research is how people pursue goals; how they handle conflicts between multiple goals, and how they manage their personal resources (time, money). She also teaches in the University of Louisville’s unique equine business program.

Sarah is a lifelong horse person. In September 2021 we had a long conversation with Sarah about that part of her life. In this second round we are focusing more on her research. In Part 1 of a three part conversation we are talking about control and choices.

In the positive reinforcement community we talk about control being reinforcing and we are drawn to training strategies that give our animal learners choice. The challenge is finding the right balance for choice. No choice is restricting, but too much choice can be paralyzing. So how do you find the balance, and how do you learn how to make good choices? That’s what we explore in this podcast.

This is part 3 of our conversation with Dr. Susan Friedman. We began in part 1 with a discussion of crucial conversations - what do you do when the stakes are high and emotions are becoming heated? How do you keep the dialog going and maintain a relationship? And what is a relationship? That’s what we explored in Part 2. We often think emotions get in the way, but Susan reminded us that emotions are diagnostic. They track contingencies. All of this brought us to a discussion of the hierarchy of behavior change procedures.

The hierarchy has been a great guideline for many trainers. When Susan first wrote about it in her article: “What’s Wrong with this Picture? Effectiveness in Not Enough”, it was common for trainers and educators to go straight to punishment to solve behavior problems. The hierarchy offered an alternative, one that is now in wide use in the training community. But there were critics of the hierarchy. Many questioned where negative reinforcement was placed in the hierarchy. Some thought it was too low, some too high. In this episode we explore the complexity of negative reinforcement and consider why both may be right.

This is part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Susan Friedman. When Susan presents at the Clicker Expo, I always make a point of sitting in on her presentations. But more than that, I like spending time with Susan in between talks. I learn a lot watching how generously and kindly she handles every situation. I have developed a mantra as a result - what would Susan do? I’m in a restaurant with slow service and frazzled staff - what would Susan do? I’m in a long line that isn’t moving, behind a young family with cranky children - what would Susan do? I’m in a conversation on the internet that’s becoming heated - what would Susan do?

Susan is never one to shy away from difficult situations. And that’s what prompted this current conversation. What do you do when the stakes are high and emotions are becoming heated? How do you keep the dialog going and maintain a relationship? And what is a relationship? That’s what we explore in Part 2. We often think emotions get in the way, but Susan reminds us that emotions are diagnostic. They track contingencies. If you think we are just at the mercy of our emotions, Susan offers us a very different perspective.

What a treat we have for you. Once again we are in conversation with Dr. Susan Friedman. Dr. Friedman is a professor emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University. She has pioneered the application of Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) to captive and companion animals. ABA, with its roots in human learning, offers a scientifically sound teaching technology and ethical standard that can improve the lives of all learners. Susan runs an on-line course - Living and Learning with Animals for Professionals. She has written chapters on learning and behavior for five veterinary texts, and she’s a frequent contributor to popular magazines. Her articles appear around the world in 15 languages. Susan has presented seminars for a wide variety of professional organizations around the world, and she is a member of the faculty of the clicker expo which is how I first met her.

When Susan is with us we forget about time. We just keep going until our animals shout out a collective Enough! Thankfully on this afternoon they were all content to let us talk, and talk we did! We have a great three parter for you. We’ll start with Crucial Conversations. We’ve all been there. It might be someone is criticizing how you’re training your horse, or maybe they’ve attacked something you’ve posted on the internet. How do you handle the situation? That’s the start for a complex, multi-layered conversation.

This week we’re talking about changes we have both made in how we care for our horses. The important message here is our ideas can evolve and change. Whether we are talking about training strategies or questions about turnout our horses are our teachers. We need to stay open to the possibility that what we have learned from others, what we have always done, doesn’t need to be set in stone.

This week we’re joined by Dr. Steve Naile. Dr Naile was my vet for over thirty years. He retired in 2020 just as the lockdowns began for the corona virus. When he was at the barn, Steve would often take time to talk about training, and about new updates in veterinary medicine. We’ve both missed those conversations so this podcast gave us a great excuse for a visit.

In parts 1 and 2 we talked about deworming, foot care, all the fancy new imaging technology that are available now for diagnosing lameness, vaccinations. In part 3 we were about to dive into a discussion of the horse’s digestive system when we had a little interruption. Dr Naile’s cat was doing what cat’s are so very good at. She was training Dr. Naile to give her attention, and she wasn’t at all shy about using more than a little negative reinforcement. So we took a quick short cut into the world of behavior analysis.

But Steve got us back on track with a discussion of feeding practices. We also talk about colics and laminitis and even the use of marijuana for horses. We end with the end - meaning we talk about the veterinarian’s role in end of life decisions. It’s a James Herriot ending to a wonderful conversation.

This week we’re joined by Dr. Steve Naile. Dr Naile was my vet for over thirty years. He retired in 2020 just as the lockdowns began for the corona virus. When Steve came to the barn, he would make extra time to talk about training, and about new updates in veterinary medicine. I’ve missed those conversations so I thought this podcast gave us the perfect opportunity for a visit.

It was fun to swap stories about my horses, but that’s not really what this conversation is about. I wanted to look back with Steve over the changes that have occurred in veterinary medicine over the past thirty to forty years. It’s interesting to think about procedures that were common when Peregrine was a foal that Dominique has never even heard about never mind seen.

So last week we talked about deworming practices and the impact they have had on our horse’s health. This week we’ll look back at another procedure, one that always seemed like to me to be straight out of the dark ages. That takes us to a discussion of the advancement in x-rays and other imagining technology that help in the diagnosis of lameness. That of course took us straight to feet, what makes a good trim, and the relationship between vets and farriers. We end with a discussion of vaccines for horses.

This week we’re joined by Dr. Steve Naile. Dr Naile was my vet for over thirty years. He retired in 2020 just as the lockdowns began for the corona virus. Whenever he was at the barn for our horses, Steve always made extra time to talk about training, and about new updates in veterinary medicine. I’ve missed those conversations. This podcast created an opportunity for an especially interesting conversation. I wanted to ask Steve to look back over the changes he’s seen in veterinary care over the fifty years he was in practice.

One of the things that makes this conversation with Steve especially interesting is he met Peregrine well before I started clicker training. He knew him as a young horse when Peregrine’s locking stifles were a major problem. And he saw the changes that occurred as I began to explore clicker training. He even learned a little clicker training - enough to help with horses who were afraid of injections.

It was fun to swap stories about my horses, but that’s not really what this conversation is about. I wanted to look back over some of the changes in veterinary medicine that have occurred over the past thirty to forty years. In many ways Peregrine was born in what I think of the as the dark ages in terms of some of the practices that were part of routine care. Dominique is newer to the horse world so she had never even heard of some of the things I wanted to talk about. It really is remarkable the changes that have occurred during the lifetime of my horses. We begin with worming - then and now.

This is Part 3 of our conversation with Sarah Memmi. Sarah is a behavioral scientist. She teaches at the University of Louisville in Kentucky, where she’s an Assistant Professor of Marketing at the College of Business.

Sarah’s main area of research is how people pursue goals, handle conflict between multiple goals, and manage their personal resources (time, money). So in this episode we take a deep dive into goals. We revisit the marshmallow test and look at what self control really is. And then we explore the way that habits can either assist in achieving our long term goals or undermine them completely.

This is Part 2 of our conversation with Sarah Memmi. Sarah is a behavioral scientist. She’s an Assistant Professor of Marketing in the College of Business at the University of Louisville. Sarah’s main area of research is how people pursue goals, handle conflict between multiple goals, and manage their personal resources (time, money). She also teaches in the University of Louisville’s unique equine business program.

There are so many rabbit holes we could go down relating to Sarah’s professional work, but last week we began with Sarah’s lifelong love of horses. I met Sarah twenty years ago when she was feeling in over her head with her young trakehner/TB homebred. We began there. Sarah’s situation at that time was one many people share. She kept her horses at home. She had to figure out clicker training on her own. I wanted Sarah to talk to us about that part of her horse journey. Her youngster became a super partner, but sadly she lost him when he was just eleven. So this opened another chapter in her life. Sarah has been wonderfully successful staying connected to the horse world.

She not only had horses to ride, but people have even invited her to clicker train the horses she works with. So many people get the door slammed in their faces when they try to talk about clicker training. Instead Sarah has been in invited to clicker train the horses she’s riding. She’s been a successful ambassador for the work. So it’s an important question that we’re exploring. How does she introduce clicker training to the owners of the horses she’s riding? What is she doing that facilitates being accepted by them?

That’s the question we explore in part 2 of our conversation.