The recent National Conservatism conference in Britain brought together an array of politicians, journalists, and academics of varying stripes of conservatism, but united by their hostility to so-called woke politics. I spoke to Aurelien Mondon about his recent article in Jacobin, Right-Wing Grifters Love to Say They’re “Canceled” — but Get All the Elite Support They Want, in which Aurelien provided ten rules for making a successful career in the anti-woke grift. We talked about some of those rules, and the extent to which liberal media outlets that have provided platforms for the Matt Goodwins and Jordan Pertersons of this world might now be regretting doing so. We also talked about the extent to which the 'war on woke' is a rehashing of traditional conservative themes, and Aurelian addressed the claim that, in spite of being sometimes poorly paid and living in rented accommodation, left wing academics and cultural producers can plausibly be described as being part of a 'New Elite' that dominates our politics.