Trent and Caitlin talk to their old friend Clay Jackson, a former litigator and current licensed attorney in Texas. They discuss his plans to embrace a life in his new home on the range, recent developments in immigration rights, and the death penalty in the US. They discuss the history and justifications for the practice, highlight the stories of some Texas men who are wrongfully convicted, and ask listeners to advocate for the people currently sentenced to death.

Support the Innocence Project: https://innocenceproject.org

Upcoming executions: https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/upcoming-executions

Police abuses in LA: https://bbc.com/news/articles/cj93d3r0zz0o

Inhumane conditions in ICE facility: https://cbsnews.com/news/immigrants-at-ice-check-ins-detained-and-held-in-basement-of-federal-building-in-los-angeles/

Legislators denied entry to ICE facility: https://nytimes.com/2025/06/08/nyregion/ice-detention-federal-plaza-nyc.html

Stephen Milller & Kristi Noem pushing for more abuses: https://newrepublic.com/post/195787/stephen-miller-screams-ice-not-arresting-enough-people

Portland, OR: https://opb.org/article/2025/06/06/asylum-arrest-portland-yzlh/

JD Vance threatens Menswear Guy: https://axios.com/2025/06/09/vance-post-suggests-deporting-the-menswear-guy

Sources for the history of execution:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/history-of-the-death-penalty/#fn6

https://archive.org/web/20131129221302/http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/jamestown-browse?id=J1023

https://encyclopediavirginia.org/entries/lawes-divine-morall-and-martiall/

https://encyclopediavirginia.org/entries/yeardley-sir-george-bap-1588-1627/

Wilkerson v. Utah: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/99/130/

Furman v. Georgia: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/408/238/

Gregg v. Georgia: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/428/153/

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/criminal-defense/second-degree-murder/

Public opinion on death penalty: https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/research/analysis/reports/year-end-reports/the-death-penalty-in-2024/public-opinion

“Eye for an eye” dominates reasons for support https://news.gallup.com/poll/1606/Death-Penalty.aspx

No evidence for deterrent effect: https://scientificamerican.com/article/evidence-does-not-support-the-use-of-the-death-penalty/

Financial costs: https://cato.org/blog/financial-implications-death-penalty

Bryan Stevenson’s Book: https://justmercy.eji.org/

Our hero Gretchen Sween: https://gsweenlaw.com/uploads/1/3/1/1/131145032/light_got_in.pdf

Robert Roberson: https://themarshallproject.org/2023/09/15/texas-shaken-baby-syndrome-baby-death-robert-roberson

Charles Flores: https://freecharlesflores.com/

Pablo Torres Finds Out: https://youtu.be/JUm2YgmBG1o?si=z4FCTmrrblxpAwIZ