Nearly 80 years after the death of Benito Mussolini, you can still find some Italians who openly proclaim their loyalty to the dictator and give the fascist salute at rallies. That behaviour would be punished with jail time in Germany. But in Italy it’s mostly met with indifference. So why do Italians seem so casual about the country’s links to fascism, past and present? And what does it mean at a time when right-wing forces are on the rise across Europe? Katya Adler speaks to the BBC’s Rome correspondent Mark Lowen, who’s just made a documentary about neo-fascism, and the Italy correspondent for The Economist, John Hooper.

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This episode was made by Peter Goffin and Beth Timmins. The technical producer Mike Regaard and Philip Bull. The assistant editor is Sergi Forcada Freixas and the senior news editor is Sam Bonham.