Jamie always wanted to work with his hands. But after 18 years in roofing, he learned the hardest lesson in trades: if you can't step away from the job, you don't own a business, you own yourself. It took 15 years to build a team that could run without him. He's not shy about what that cost. Robbie is his 19-year-old apprentice and this year's Apprentice of the Year. Two years ago, he was scanning medical samples in a warehouse, wondering what his life would look like. Then he found roofing, and everything changed.In this episode, Alex sits down with both of them to hear the full story. Jamie talks through coming off the tools, building a management team, why he reads every business book he can get his hands on, and what he wishes someone had told him at 16. Robbie talks about what it actually feels like to find something that grabs you — and why winning Apprentice of the Year wasn't even on his radar until Jamie pushed him. Between them, they cover the education system, the skills shortage, social media, mentorship, pensions, and why the best investment any tradesperson can make is in themselves. "Train people well enough so they can leave — but treat them well enough that they'll stay."