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What do Top Guns get wrong about leading in complexity.? What do they get right?

The conversation explores some common flaws of “TOPGUN” thinking—those bounded lessons borrowed from the cockpit and applied as gospel by business leaders—and the uncomfortable truths TOPGUNs know about business, leadership, life and teamwork. 

Three former “TOPGUNs” turned business consultants and authors challenge established practices often preached by former military consultants to include closing the execution gap, the limitations of the Swiss cheese model in complex environments, and the overuse of checklists.

Throughout our discussion, we peel back the layers of organizational safety and psychological dynamics that govern team success. We address the often overlooked value of cognitive diversity and the role of leadership in fostering environments where honest feedback fuels progress. Discover how the principles of cockpit resource management can revolutionize the way you approach team interactions and planning processes. And prepare to be intrigued as we delve into the surprising connection between effective debriefing and the potential of psychedelics in personal growth and team building.

Finally, we reflect on poignant lessons from corporate giants and the evolving battle between alternative healing modalities and big pharma. With an eye on the market dynamics of the future, we anticipate the significant shifts this conflict may bring. Our conversation stands as a testament to continuous growth and the relentless pursuit of organizational excellence. So buckle up and join us for a journey that promises to challenge your preconceptions and inspire innovation at every turn.

No Fallen Heroes Foundation

John R. Boyd's Conceptual Spiral was originally titled No Way Out. In his own words: 

“There is no way out unless we can eliminate the features just cited. Since we don’t know how to do this, we must continue the whirl of reorientation…”

March 25, 2025

Flow Learning Lab

Find us on X. @NoWayOutcast
Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation

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Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch:

The No Bell Podcast Episode 24
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