Are downloads still the right way to measure podcast success?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Dan Misener, co-founder of Bumper, about why the download has lost its value as the industry’s currency and what new measures should define growth. Dan shares how brands like Ford and Shopify are rethinking ROI, what top-of-funnel really means for branded podcasts, and why audience clarity is the key to sustainable strategy.

As he puts it:

“Why are we selling the number that’s declining? Why are we not selling the number that’s going up?”
Here are some insightful moments within the episode:

• The limits of downloads as a measure of success
• Verified listeners, time spent, and playback as stronger metrics
• Why branded podcasts often win on top-of-funnel strategy
• What Bumper has learned from working with companies like Ford and Shopify
• How creators and publishers should define growth before chasing it

Dan Misener is the co-founder of Bumper, a podcast growth and strategy company. Previously head of audience development at Pacific Content, Dan has worked with brands including Ford, Shopify, Slack, and Dell on award-winning shows. With a background in public broadcasting at CBC, he has become one of podcasting’s most influential voices on measurement, growth, and the evolving value of audio.

Connect with Dan on LinkedIn.

Learn more at wearebumper.com.

Episode Chapters

01:15 – Where’s the Money? | How brands monetize podcasts directly and indirectly

04:15 – Top of Funnel | What Shopify taught Dan about brand shows

07:33 – Brand ROI | What Ford and the Met want from podcasting

12:23 – The Death of the Download | Why it’s no longer the right yardstick

16:47 – Verified Listeners & Playback | Measuring people, not impressions

20:26 – Audience Clarity | Why knowing who you serve drives growth

24:23 – The Hidden Work | Why good podcasting looks effortless but isn’t

27:54 – Redefining Growth | Asking the right questions before you scale

28:46 – Looking Ahead | A new era of measurement and sustainability

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz…“The smartest teams we’re working with are actively working on de-risking their podcast businesses because the download number… I don’t think that’s coming back.”“When podcasting works, it looks really easy. What people don’t see is the hundreds of decisions behind the scenes that make it successful.”“The least successful shows we’ve worked with have tried to reach everybody.”“Growth looks different to every single creator and brand out there. The key is clarity on what growth means for you.”“I am excited by a renewed interest in the measures that matter: people, playback, and time spent.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

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