David Axelrod and Karl Rove are two of the most influential political strategists of our time. Axelrod helped shape President Barack Obama's journey to the White House. Rove was "The Architect" behind President George W. Bush's victories. Their careers were built on defeating people like each other in some of the most bitter, high-stakes political battles in modern American history. Yet, despite their history over the years, today they share a genuine friendship. "We were able to build a relationship because even though we gave different points of view about some issues, I've never questioned Karl's patriotism or love of country. And we have this bond because we know that we have shared something much bigger than politics," David says.

That something bigger than politics is a shared understanding of what it is to grieve. Both David and Karl have parents who have died by suicide and in this week's episode, Tim talks with them about the shared loss that brought them together, the mutual respect that sustains their friendship, and their advice to a country struggling to stay in relationship across deep divides. At a moment when so many Americans feel disillusioned by politics or estranged from loved ones with different views, David and Karl offer a model of how to disagree without dehumanizing the other person, how to argue and stay connected, and how believing in each other and in America requires moving beyond labels and preconceived notions. "See them as human beings," Karl reminds us, "I don't want to be around people without character, but I'm not going to say that the determinant of their character is their political beliefs."

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Karl Rove was the senior advisor and deputy chief of staff to President George W. Bush, and “The Architect” of his presidential victories. He now writes a weekly column for The Wall Street Journal and is a Fox News contributor. David Axelrod is a political strategist and senior advisor who helped shape the message and vision of Barack Obama’s historic presidential campaigns. He hosted The Axe Files and is the founding director of University of Chicago’s non-partisan Institute of Politics. Learn more about Karl’s work on his website rove.com and David’s work at Politics.UChicago.Edu and find The Axe Files wherever you get your podcasts.

“Need A Lift?” will be on a hiatus for the summer and back this fall. Follow us on Instagram (@timothyshriver and @needaliftpod) and Facebook and let us know what you’d like to see on the show.

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Our theme music was written by Andy Ogden and produced by Tim Lauer, Andy Ogden and Julian Raymond. All other music that you hear in this episode is courtesy of Epidemic Sound.

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