Keith Weinhold and Caeli Ridge discuss the benefits of a type of loan that combines mortgage and banking features. This loan allows deposits to reduce principal first, every deposit acts like a payment, minimizing interest accrual. And can be used for cash-out refinancing, providing flexibility and potential tax benefits. 

Hear about the importance and the difference between open-ended and closed-ended loans.

If you pay down the loan balance over time, you can have a spread that allows you to access that equity without having to requalify or pay additional closing costs.

Resources:

Explore the loan simulator at RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE 

or e-mail: [email protected]

Show Notes:

GetRichEducation.com/542

For access to properties or free help with a

GRE Investment Coach, start here:

GREmarketplace.com

GRE Free Investment Coaching:GREmarketplace.com/Coach

Get mortgage loans for investment property:

RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE 

or e-mail: [email protected]

Invest with Freedom Family Investments. 

You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866

Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” 

For advertising inquiries, visit:

GetRichEducation.com/ad

Best Financial Education:

GetRichEducation.com

Get our wealth-building newsletter free—

text ‘GRE’ to 66866

Our YouTube Channel:

www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation

Follow us on Instagram:

@getricheducation

Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold a discussion about the future mortgage rate direction. Then there's a property loan type where you don't have to make any monthly payments, and if you do make a payment, it all goes toward principal, and nothing is lost to interest. It can save you lots in interest expense over the life of the loan today on get rich education.

 

since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads in 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com

 

Corey Coates  1:13  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:29  

Welcome to GRE from flaccid County, Oregon to Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are back in for another wealth building week here at get rich education, just another shaved mammal with the microphone here, I have a real estate analogy for you. Growing up, my dad told me, whatever you do, do it well. And that was broad guidance for life. I like things that are easy to remember. Our simple home in Appalachian Pennsylvania was headed with a wood fired stove, so we couldn't just turn a dial and feeding the stove with those logs took time and work. It was a family effort. Dad split the firewood. My chore was to regularly move firewood from the wood pile into the home, and then Mom or Dad would start the fire and constantly tend to it and get it up to the right temperature. But you know, when that fire finally roared, it felt like it could have heated five homes. And this is like buying an income producing rental property. You can't just point and click to make income reliably appear. It takes time, and even some of this admin type of work before you feel hot returned the spark that can ignite the fire means first putting your financial house in order. Those are things like getting pre approved for a mortgage loan, and then they're stacking the firewood, which means finding a deal, making an offer, booking a property inspection, scheduling an appraisal, perhaps signing a property management agreement if you're not self managing, and then, of course, placing a tenant. But see when that investment property fire roars after a year or two that can create enough returns for five retail investors, just like our roaring wood fire could have heated five homes, even though you're only one investor getting like 5x returns, and by now, you probably felt, after a year or two of owning it, the profitable warmth of the five ways you're paid that you know so well. Those five ways are leverage, appreciation, cash flow. Tenant made principal pay down a tax benefit basket and the quiet, whispering fire of inflation, profiting on your loan, but you can't get over leveraged, meaning that you can't make the payments, or else you burn the whole house down. This means embracing the right level of debt rather than avoiding debt altogether. So yeah, you know, if you want to be in the top 1% or maybe even top 5% Do you know what that means? It means being misunderstood by the masses. And when you do this right, it's not about getting rich quick, but it's about building wealth. For sure, feel the fire and whatever you do, do it well, just like my dad told me, and oh, by the way, today, my parents still live in that same. House, but they now just turn a dial for heat. 

 

Well, you know, there's been a lot of real estate and financial news lately, just this constant feed of news. And I really need to tell you something about that. I am not a news reporter. If some news just broke an hour ago. A lot of times people are only overreacting to something like that. So here at GRE I infuse the news longer term into our content of the show, because some of it is just too big to ignore. But often let it settle down for a little while and filter out what it really means to you as an investor. I mean, being an educational platform rather than a news platform is what it's about. So I want to make sure you understand the relationships rather than just reporting the news. I mean, for example, what tariffs can do to home prices and rents and inflation. I mean, that really impacts you and your real estate long term. Rather than just doing something like reporting that the tariff on this nation that looked like it was going to be 25% is now only going to be 10% or something like that, that really doesn't affect you so much. So now that you know more about what to expect here, which are the stories that really affect you as an investor? The last inflation report did come in at a hot 3% that startled economists that it was that high. And what that does is that makes bond yields rise, because bond investors need a real return net of inflation, and in turn, that soon makes mortgage rates rise, and also it makes Jerome Powell be in no rush to cut his Fed funds rate after this hot inflation report, either. And here's another long term relationship that can help you learn the Fed's dual mandate is, what do you know? What it is, the two things I've mentioned it to you before, the Fed's dual mandate is maximum employment and stable prices. That right there is inherently volatile, because when employment is maximized, well then employers, they have to compete with higher wages in order to attract workers, and that makes prices go up, destabilizing the prices will stable. Prices is the second part of the dual mandate. So that's why it always seems like there's this lightning rod attention on Jay Powell in the Fed. It is because the dual mandate is inherently volatile. Now, you know what I think about predicting mortgage rates. I don't like to do it because it's an almost impossible task, like the myth of Sisyphus, that Greek myth about rolling a boulder up a hill wells, Fargo says mortgage rates will go down to just six and a half percent by the end of this year, so not much of a drop. And also by the end of next year, almost two years from now, they'll still be just six and a half percent. And other C rates rising from here. So there is broad consensus that there's zero reason to think that artificially low rates are going to return anytime in the near term, perhaps even in the intermediate term, coming up on a future episode of the show here and soon, how to use AI in real estate investing today, let's talk about mortgages and a special loan type.

 

Today, we are back with the national leader in providing Americans with income property loans. She runs the operation at Ridge lending group. She's been doing this 25 years she's an investor herself. It is their CEO and president, Caeli Ridge,

 

Caeli Ridge  9:06  

Keith, thank you for having me. 

 

Keith Weinhold  9:08  

There does seem to be one US president. That makes a lot of news lately, but Caeli is still the most noteworthy mortgage type of President, I suppose. And just like GRE Ridge focuses on education and Caeli mortgage rates. It's the topic that everyone wants to talk about. I don't predict mortgage rates, but I know that you'll Talk That Talk a little. And previously, many expected Jerome Powell and the Fed to drop the rate four times this year, then two and now more and more expect zero rate cuts at all this year, even opening the door for rate increases if inflation persists. So tell us about the propensities of this year's mortgage rate direction. 

 

Caeli Ridge  9:51  

I think that I agree with a lot of the volume out there related to interest rates kind of stay in the course. I don't think we're going to see too much of a decline. There's. Certainly, Keith, we talk about this at nauseum. There's all kinds of things that could derail that statement that we can't prepare for, we couldn't predict for, but I think overall rates are going to stay steady. I think that whether you like them or you don't like them, the tariffs tend to come with an inflationary tone. And if that's the case, it's going to put Jerome and his buddies at the Fed in a tough position to do what they had hoped to do with the easing, the monetary easing. So I don't expect to see it, but I'm hopeful who knows. Who knows? 

 

Keith Weinhold  10:29  

Now, for you, the listener and viewer here, when you really want to know what moves rates around, Caeli talk to us about this persistently high spread, and what that means is that historic difference between mortgage rates and the yield on the 10 year treasury note. 

 

Caeli Ridge  10:47  

I feel like a lot of what that's going to attach itself to is the inflation, and then, more specifically, when we talk about llpas, and I think we've talked about this in the past, loan level price adjustments, mortgage backed securities secondary market, right? This is an investment that is bought and sold on the New York Stock Exchange, right? These are investments that carry value. And while the Treasury is usually the one that people will look at to predict where interest rates are going to go, I feel like in this higher rate environment, the secondary market understands that these mortgage backed securities are going to be paying off in advance of profitability. Now this gets a little bit complicated, but the easy way to explain it is is that if you secure a loan today at, say, seven and a half percent, if the anticipation is that interest rates over the next three years, maybe not in the next year, but two years, even three years, are going to decline. The mortgage that was closed today will likely pay off via a refinance. In that event, it's not reached the maturity date, such that when that initial mortgage backed security was purchased on the secondary market, it will have to pay off before the investor has been made whole or profitable. As a result, the margins it's called on in my world, it's called YSP, yield spread premium will not be met. So they're baking in certain levers, or they're hedging, as another way to say it, so that they're not left with those negative balances when these things do pay off when interest rates come down, because interest rates are not a straight line, they go up, they go down, they go east, they go west. So as a result, they're planning far in advance into the future. So I think that has a lot to do with it. 

 

Keith Weinhold  12:33  

Real Estate industries are shrinking, and it's all related to the fact that back in 2021 the number of existing homes sold peaked at almost 7 million, but last year, it was only about 4 million. That is a huge drawdown. The number of US Realtors is dropping since it peaked in 2023 and Caeli, from what I can see, the number of loan officers, even operating has dropped precipitously over the last four years, it's a reminder that the strong survive and in the mortgage industry, top service is what savvy borrowers need. You go with the people that consistently advise you to take your time and look at your long term strategy and make the correct decision, not always the one giving like 1/8 of a percent lower and an interest rate, so any lender can get you the next loan, and few are going to help you with your long term strategy. With this overall lower volume of transactions taking place, what are your thoughts about how it's impacted the mortgage and lending industries? 

 

Caeli Ridge  13:37  

It's such a good question. I'm glad that you asked it, and I really do think it speaks to the experts in the space consumers, our borrowers, as we call them, have to be, I believe, a little bit more discerning about who they want to align themselves with and who they want to work with as it relates to the interest rate. We've had this conversation off book. Ridge doesn't sell rate or cost. Now we're competitive, but we're never going to be the lowest possible lender out there. There's always going to be somebody that can undercut for an eighth, like you said, a quarter point, a few 100 bucks here and there. And we just don't get into that, our value adds far exceed an eighth of a point in rate, which, by the way, you probably can predict what I'm going to say next, if you're not doing the math, just as a sidebar listener, the difference in payment, and that's really where the focus should be. The difference in payment on an eighth or a quarter percent in interest rate on $100,000 is all of 5,7,8, bucks a month. Okay, so make sure you're doing the math, but the value adds that come with the education that we provide the 49 states, large footprint and the diversity of loan product, I think, far outweigh any eighth or few $100 difference when you're comparing side by side. I'm not saying that you don't want to get comparisons and you don't want to be a smart, informed consumer, but it really does matter that your lender understands known, owner occupied understands how to. Or take you from point A to point Z today and five and 10 years down the road.

 

Keith Weinhold  15:05  

you've been a mortgage industry leader for a long time with this lower volume. Have you seen mortgage companies implode close shop?

 

Caeli Ridge  15:15  

Absolutely, we have access to those data points and the number of loan officers just the individual in the doing the transaction, not including processors and underwriters and funders and doctors, but just the loan officers. I believe, in 2024 reduced by a margin of 53% gosh, yeah, that's a big number.

 

Keith Weinhold  15:35  

Yes, this is really hit the industry substantially. Are there any other interesting industry trends in this environment where we have persistently higher rates, I make sure not to say high, because historically, mortgage rates are still not high. The long term average being seven and three quarter percent on the 30 year fixed rate mortgage Are there any other trends that this loss in activity has created?

 

Caeli Ridge  15:58  

I feel like the informed investor is still finding ways to profit in real estate. They're finding diversity is key, which I'm a big proponent of as are you. That means single family residence to two to four units, cash flow versus appreciation, the short term rental, the long term rental, the midterm rental, making sure that they have a good, rounded portfolio is key. And there are some which I think we're going to be talking about today. There are some mortgage tools that I really feel like, for an informed investor, are allowing them to continue and propel further, even scale into the 25 and 26 years.

 

Keith Weinhold  16:36  

What's happened to the volume of owner occupied transactions versus investor transactions. I would imagine that investor mortgage transactions really aren't down that much.

 

Caeli Ridge  16:47  

not that much. I'd say there was a small blip, but I feel like we've made those up with some of the burr strategy loans we do, of course, all kinds of mortgage related transactions specifically for investors. And one of those products is a short term bridge loan, which would apply to the BRRRR method by rehab, rent and refinance. So we've been seeing quite a bit of that, where the investor will find a good deal on market or off market, where they can put a little bit of lipstick on it and then refinance it at the ARV or after repair value. So anything that we might have lost in just a traditional 30 year fixed straight purchase transactions, I feel like we made up in the other but it wasn't a big margin.

 

Keith Weinhold  17:26  

What if there was a mortgage product out there that just didn't work like other mortgage loan products do? For example, your deposits or the payments that you make on this special type of mortgage is applied to the principal first and only. There are a lot of other interesting characteristics about this particular mortgage product. We're going to discuss that when we come back. You're listening to get rich education. We've got the CEO and President of ridge lending group back with us, an investor centric lender. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold.

 

You know what's crazy? Your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back, no weird lock ups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text FAMILY to66866, to learn about freedom, family investments, liquidity fund, again. Text FAMILY to 66866

 

hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation, because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind @ridgelendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com

 

Rick Sharga  19:48  

this is Rich charga, housing market intelligence analyst. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  20:06  

Welcome back to get rich education. We're talking with a steady guest over time, because not only are they an income property centric mortgage loan company that do mortgage loans in 49 of the 50 states, but they're also centered on education and looking out for you, the investor, over the long term. And cheyley, such an interesting product that you offer is called the all in one loan. It's been a long time since you and I have really talked about this. What it is is a first lien HELOC. It's a way for you to use the equity in your existing properties. You can do it with either a primary residence or investment properties. There are just so many reasons why an all in one load just kicks the butt on a conventionally amortizing loan, including that all payments are applied to principal first and only, and a lot of other exciting things. So Caeli, why don't we back up and just describe what the all in one loan is big picture.

 

Caeli Ridge  21:05  

Now there is a lot to unpack, so we're going to take our time. Listener. First of all, let me just explain. Why is it called the all in one it's called that because it doubles as both a mortgage in the form of an open ended revolving HELOC and checking and savings. Both of those two features are combined, hence the all in one as a way of diminishing the amount of interest that can accrue over time. Let me explain so any revolving account, any account, including a credit card, for example, but first lien HELOC, second lien HELOC, whichever doesn't matter, open ended revolving is the key. Any open ended, revolving account will accrue interest daily based on two factors, the first being that day's balance and that months, in this case, interest rate, fully indexed interest rate. I'll come to interest rate later. As a result, you now have control largely over how much interest can accrue. Now let's take that statement and transfer it and look at it against an amortized, closed ended mortgage. You sign up for a 30 year fixed mortgage today. Let's say it's 7% whatever the interest rate is, is really irrelevant. Your principal and interest payment are defined on day one. There is no changing that monthly payment. Now you could certainly accelerate the payoff of that mortgage debt by doing what applying additional extra principal payments, right? But what happens to that extra principal payment when you send it off with your 30 year fixed mortgage payment,

 

Keith Weinhold  22:34  

it drops your loan balance, but your minimum payment amount is the exact same the next month,

 

Caeli Ridge  22:38  

right? And then what happens to all that liquidity that you had prior, it's now illiquid. Right? Exactly that off

 

Keith Weinhold  22:45  

you've just transferred your cash flow into equity. Financial freedom is created by doing the opposite thing and changing equity into cash flow,

 

Caeli Ridge  22:52  

very illiquid, and not the way an investor typically is going to want to run his or her business. So hence the all in one. Now for those of you that have heard the term velocity banking or infinity banking, maybe whole life insurance policy has a similar tone to this. The all in one, I believe, offers even more flexibility for variety of reasons that we're going to get into. But if you've ever heard those terms, that's similar to what this is. So I want to start by I usually like to give an example, okay, and provide some visual aid so that people can connect the dots. Let's start with the 30 year or a fixed rate mortgage. Just because I feel like, especially in the US, this particular loan product, or its concept is widely used in much of the rest of the world, in the US, I feel like we're sort of preconditioned here to really only understand that closed ended, amortized mortgage. So I'm going to start with an example there that actually highlights or leads into the concept of the all in one. So I want you to imagine a 30 year fixed mortgage and a 15 year fixed mortgage. Both of these mortgages originated or started at $400,000 as the balance on day one. The 30 year fixed mortgage locked at an interest rate of 4% and the 15 year fixed mortgage locked at an interest rate of 7% now, when I go through this exercise and I give this example to people, I ask them the question, Well, which one would you choose? And without exception, if they don't understand amortization, they are going to select that 4% 30 year fixed mortgage, because they don't understand that it's about speed. When you run the math and you look at an actual amortization table, you'll see that you'll pay $40,000 more in interest on a 4% 30 year or 360 month, versus a 7% 15 year or 180 month. So the point here, and what I'm illustrating, is it's speed. Now let's segue back over to the all in one. It's all about speed and how much interest we allow to accrue over time. So as you had mentioned, to start the kick this off, Keith, every deposit acts like a payment. Now here's where I struggled with this in learning. And when this was first introduced to me years ago, this part of it really caught me off guard. I had to really dig in and try to focus on what are they talking about? What do they mean? There's no payment due on the all in one. I'm gonna say that again. There's no payment due on the all in one. Think about your 30 year fixed mortgage. If you don't make a payment, what happens?

 

Keith Weinhold  25:19  

You're defaulting, you're in trouble. You become delinquent,

 

Caeli Ridge  25:23  

right? So that is not how this loan is set up. And it's not smoke and mirrors, okay? It's nothing fancy. The deposits that you make from ordinary income from all sources really Okay, so we want to talk about this is really special for investors, because we have access to gross rents, the rental income that's coming in before we send it back out the door, along with our net wages and every other source of income, deposits that we're getting can be utilized to your advantage. One of the ways in which I describe this is, I like to say you've become your own bank, so you have this line of credit, and your gross rents and all of your net wages are going to deposit into your checking account, driving that principal balance down, dollar for dollar, so that the interest accrual is diminished. Because remember what I said a few seconds ago, the interest is calculated on any open ended revolving account based on two factors, the balance for the day and the interest rate, so the more you have in depository income, and you drop it into your checking account, the longer it stays there, the lower the amount of interest is going to accrue within a 30 day billing cycle. Now let me just paint one more picture, and then we can open up to what questions come from this. So I want you to imagine this is I'm going to use easy, round math. I want you to imagine that you have an unpaid principal balance on your mortgage, on your HELOC of $100,000 just for round easy mouth, and that you bring in $10,000 a month in income from all sources. And just to keep it simple, we're going to say that that 10,000 comes in on day one of month one. Okay, so here's our 100 grand sitting there. My $10,000 is deposited into my checking account. Now my balance is $90,000 right? That 10 grand is not going to be touched. You will not touch that $10,000 for 29 days out of a 30 day billing cycle. And I'm giving you optimal tricks. Okay, this is how you want to use it optimally, yeah. Day one, instead of paying interest on $100,000 you're paying interest on paying interest on $90,000 and you're going to pay interest only on $90,000 for 29 days out of a 30 day billing cycle. Well, how am I going to make all my bills? And how am I going to eat? And how am I going to pay my cell phone? And what am I going to do? You're going to use a credit card, or credit cards of your choice, the ones that provide the best points, or whichever you prefer doesn't really matter. To pay all those monthly living expenses now we don't want to pay any interest on our credit cards. Right? 18, 28% whatever it is. No thank you. So now we're going to go to day 30 of that 30 day billing cycle. Right? 29 days that 10 grand has sat in there. Our balance has been 90. Our interest has accrued on that 90. On day 30, the credit card has amassed $9,000 in expenses. You've spent $9,000 for the month on food, gas utilities, car payments, cell phone, everything goes on that card. Day 30, you go into your checking account where your 10 grand has been sitting, and you write a check to pay off the credit card $9,000 so for one day of the month, we went from 90,000 in a balance to 99,000 right. 9000 had to come out of the 10 to pay off the credit card. We had $1,000 left over. Now I want you to fast forward into month to day one our starting balance, because that $1,000 leftover was our residual income, our discretionary our savings, it's what was not spent, but I have full access to it. Should I need it? So day one, month two 99, 000 is my outstanding balance. I drop in my $10,000 of income. 89,000 is what I'm going to be paying interest on for 29 days of a 30 day billing cycle. So this should allow listeners to connect some dots. There are two components of compound interest savings, the first being daily. We've got our income dropping in there. It's just sitting so daily savings, compound interest savings. And then that leftover savings, that residual, that $1,000 is going to be left in there month after month 24/7, access. That's monthly compound interest savings. So those are the two components that make this product profoundly impactful in diminishing that interest accrual over time. Why don't I take a pause

 

Keith Weinhold  29:30  

so with the all in one loan, we're really integrating our consumer accounts with our mortgage. Absolutely right? Is there a way to automate these payments associated with this?

 

Caeli Ridge  29:43  

Yes, I'm glad you asked. So everything that you have become accustomed to today in your checking and savings is going to be exactly the same with the all in one this mortgage is housed by an FDIC insured banking institution. It'll be one of two places depending on which. Which ends up picking up the rights. It'll be North Point or merchants, bank, those are the two that service this loan. Feel free to check them out when you think about the automation of your checking and savings accounts with your B of A, Chase, Wells, Fargo, whomever, credit union, whomever you bank with. Now there will be no difference to that experience and this experience so online bill pay, debit cards, routing numbers, paper checks. Should you still use those mobile apps? If you get a paper check, you take a picture and it uploads to the account. All the same exact automation as you have become used to today will apply with the all in one

 

Keith Weinhold  30:36  

and you described how the all in one loan is an open ended loan versus your plain vanilla 30 or fixed amortizing loan, which is closed ended. For those that don't know, what do those terms open ended and close ended mean?

 

Caeli Ridge  30:48  

So amortized is predetermined over the period of time that you've gotten the mortgage for. So whether it be a 10 year, a 20 year, 2515, 30, whatever it is, it is closed ended, so the interest rate that you secured against the loan amount that you've taken, they have come up with the formula, the calculation that says, This is how much interest you're going to pay over this length of time. And the longer the amount of time that you have selected, let's say a 30 or maybe even a 40 year. Those do exist, in some cases, the longer the amount of time that closed ended amortized mortgages in play, the more interest you're going to pay. Now, it keeps your payment lower for sure, but they're going to make it up in the interest that you'll pay in the long time. Now the open ended revolving just means that it is available to pay down and draw up, and pay down and draw up. It is not closed

 

Keith Weinhold  31:40  

and then with those conventional mortgages, typically, especially when you originate a new loan for years, most of your payment goes to interest, which would not be the case with the all in one loan. 

 

Caeli Ridge  31:53  

Exa  ctly. Yeah. So anybody that's looked at an amortization table knows the first 10 ish years, we'll just keep using the most common, 30 year fixed first 10 years or so, maybe even a few years past that, 90% of your payment is going to go to the interest. You won't start chunking down any principal until the back end of that mortgage, 180 or complete flip to the all in one every dollar that goes in there drives the principal down first.

 

Keith Weinhold  32:18  

That is huge, even if you pay a higher interest rate on your all in one loan, you can see how you have fewer dollars out of pocket in interest paid, which is what really matters to you,

 

Caeli Ridge  32:30  

exactly, right? So think about a 20% interest rate. If you're paying 20% interest on 50,000 then 7% interest on 500,000 you can see how the math will work in your favor, regardless of the number in the interest rate in comparing side to side. And one of the other things that we haven't touched on, and maybe this is a good segue, Keith, it's not just the daily deposits. We have clients that take out a, you know, a million dollar line of credit, but they have $500,000 sitting idle for whatever it is their business needs. And in the E commerce. It doesn't even matter, but they have this amount of cash that they're simply going to take from this vehicle a regular checking account over here, and drop it in here, and that interest is saved. That $500,000 that was sitting idle doing nothing over here is now saving interest at an incredible rate. So it's not just the daily and monthly deposits. If you just have idle cash, or you know you're going to be getting a bonus or a tax refund, or whatever it is, those monies that would otherwise just sit in a one to 2% maybe interest bearing checking savings account can now be applied over here, driving down that balance further, dollar for dollar saving in that interest.

 

Keith Weinhold  33:39  

So we are opportunistic investors here, when we see an accumulation of equity in a property or cash in an account, we want to get that moving with this all in one loan again, which is like a first lien HELOC, I would imagine that would we get plenty of room to borrow more in there, and there's been plenty of pay down, we might want to draw against it again for another purchase, and let this thing be flexible like an accordion back and forth as you're drawing the balance down and you're extending it out again. So really, the way I see the flexibility with the all in one loan is that you don't have to go through another mortgage loan origination each time you want to buy a property. You can just draw against this account.

 

Caeli Ridge  34:20  

And we're still just scratching the surface in what this thing does exactly right? And I've said this twice now, you've become your own bank. Yeah, okay, if you pay it down over a short period of time, let's say that you had half a million dollars and you were able to reduce that down to 300,000 there's a $200,000 spread there that, at your discretion, do not have to re pre qualify and pay closing costs. Again, you don't have to ask permission or get it approved, for some reason, those are your funds, your equity, your dollars to do what you want, when you want, how you want. The other thing too is probably a good place to point this out, safety net, as long as there is a spread between what you owe and the credit limit. Whatever that is. If something were to happen That was unfortunate, some unfortunate set of circumstance befell the family, whatever, and no income was coming into the household zero. What would happen if you didn't have money to make your 30 year fixed mortgage payment? You're going to ruin your credit and go into default. Well, the reverse is true with the all in one if there is a spread between the balance and the limit and you needed to not make any deposits, the only thing that's going to happen in that case is interest is going to accrue on top of that balance. The only time a payment deposit is mandated with the all in one is when the balance is about to exceed the limit. That's the only time. Now I'm not saying that that's the way people are going to use it, but that's the reality of it. So what if this? Let's take this down the rabbit hole for a second. If you couldn't make a deposit, you're not going to go into default, right? You're simply going to add some interest on top of the existing balance. But what if you needed to draw from it for living expenses for a couple of months? Yeah? What if you needed, you know, $5,000 a month for three months until you got back on your feet, whatever it is you have access to do that. There's your safety net. You just simply draw from it, as long as there's a spread between the balance and the limit, those are your funds to do with what you choose 

 

Keith Weinhold  36:13  

if one takes out a HELOC, whether that's in an all in one loan form or not, something that I've advocated with my listeners for years is that now you do have this line that you can draw against to your point Haley, it's effectively another layer of insurance for that borrower or investor. So if you're interested in keeping down your insurance premium, you can get a HELOC or an all in one loan increase your insurance deductible, which can lower your insurance premium and increase your cash flow.

 

Caeli Ridge  36:43  

Good point. You know, I hadn't even thought about that before. That is a new one on me that is actually brilliant. Yes.

 

Keith Weinhold  36:50  

now we had a listener quite a while ago, Mark from Granite Bay, California, right in Mark's a great long time listener. When he found our show, he wanted to go back and re listen to all the old episodes. And he listens to several episodes multiple times. And Mark wrote in because he heard you on the show quite a while ago. And Mark says, I've been using the all in one loans, amazing mortgage balance deduction. But as a GRE listener, I know I can't be lured in by that alone. I also need to utilize its leverage. I just used my all in one loan Mark continues to say, probably, like a lot of others, to buy a duplex for mid south home buyers in all cash and then refinance that loan into a fanniefreda 30 year from my all in one loan simulations, and Caeli has an all in one loan simulation on her website that she'll tell you about. But to finish Mark's question, Mark says, I have gathered in these simulations that as long as properties are cash flowing, the best use of the all in one seems to be to keep repeating what we did on our first duplex purchase, use the all in one loan, to buy properties in all cash, and then later refi it into better debt or leverage, and then continue to repeat the process. Is that a valid way to use it? That's Mark's question.

 

Caeli Ridge  38:03  

Absolutely. Mark, Well done, sir. And there's a few points here that I want to take a minute and peel back, Keith, so one of the first things that I would say that's really great about that philosophy or that strategy is going to be that on a cash out refinance of the property that was paid cash, using the all in one we get to use the appraised value. So under the circumstances, if you paid $100,000 for it, and perhaps it valued at 110, 151, 20, whatever it is, then we as the lender are going to refinance on a cash out refinance using that higher appraised value, so you have a little bit more leverage there, and potentially get more in that loan to value when you're comparing what you're getting back versus what you put in. The other thing, obviously, is that when you're dealing with a turnkey or a seller, an agent, whatever, everybody knows that when you can come to the table with cash, yeah, right, you become the more desirable buyer. There's that obvious piece, and then in terms of that strategy and that simulation. So please, yes, that is absolutely the first thing that I'm going to do with anybody that calls in is I'm going to get on the phone with them, a teams call, and we're going to do the simulator together. But I encourage everybody to get in there and play around with it. If you're not quite sure what data points it's asking for, let us know, or we'll do one together. But that simulator is going to allow you to compare the all in one to either an existing mortgage on a primary rental property or a new traditional mortgage. Let's say you're thinking about buying an investment property with a 30 year fixed and you want to compare that to the all in one, or maybe you want to refinance one of your existing properties, so you can compare it to existing versus new. And then within that simulation, it will allow you to forecast additional spending. That will allow you to say, I want to take out $50,000 in month 22 and it'll reformulate where the simulation of saved interest, payoff time, all of those things will be available to you within that simulator. It's very slick. 

 

Keith Weinhold  40:00  

 And now that you, the investor, have the ability to pay all cash, not only can you close faster, but a lot of times, sellers are willing to give you a discount, since you can close faster and pay all cash, and then it's up to you down the road to go ahead and refinance that into a conventional product, or however else you want to do it. Caeli, what else should we know about the all in one loan?

 

Caeli Ridge  40:24  

 Couple things I would share. First of all, the qualification metric for the all in one is going to be a little bit more restrictive than a traditional 30 year fixed mortgage, so be prepared for a little extra brain damage. I know that getting qualified for mortgages is not everybody's favorite activity. I get it. There's a lot that goes on to it. It's not like the good old days where some remember you could fog a mirror and get a mortgage, but the all in one does take it to another level, even beyond what you're used to now. So debt to income ratio, I'll give you the specifics really quickly, so just be prepared. I like to set that expectation. Debt to income ratio caps at 43% on the all in one versus 50% that we would have from a traditional Fannie Freddie, 30 year fixed. The reserve requirement is calculated based on the line limit. It's dependent on the debt to income ratio. I'll just leave it there. It'll either be 10% or 15% of the line limit. So if the limit was 100 grand, 10,000 or 15,000 is the reserve requirement, and then the minimum credit score requirement. Owner Occupied is 700 non owner occupied is 720 so a little bit higher on the bar for qualification for the all in one.

 

Keith Weinhold  41:33  

Who is this for? And who is it not for?

 

Caeli Ridge  41:36  

It is for anyone generally that has at least 10% discretionary income at the end of the month. Typically, everybody's circumstances are different. I encourage you to play with the simulator. Get on my schedule. Let's do it together. But more often than not, we find that 10% left over at the end of the month is generally enough for it to work for the individual, and for those of you that got 2% interest rates during the pandemic, I just want you to know that I'm running the simulator against those loans day in and day out. And I would say, I'll give you a 65% of the time the all in one is beaten the, you know, what, out of a two and a half percent 30 year fixed mortgage

 

Keith Weinhold  42:12  

that is really interesting. Well, there's a lot of opportunity and flexibility with the all in one loan. Is there any last thing that we should know about it.

 

Caeli Ridge  42:22  

Start doing your due diligence. This does take a minute to unpack. Don't get overwhelmed by all the information. We've talked about some real tangible stuff here, but there's quite a bit that there would be to uncover. So take your time. Call us. We'll walk through it step by step

 

Keith Weinhold  42:36  

and get started on that simulator and really see what it can do for you to make that actionable. Caeli, Where should one start?

 

Caeli Ridge  42:44  

Head to our website, ridgelendinggroup.com you can email us [email protected] and obviously we're always a phone call away at 855, 74, Ridge

 

Keith Weinhold  42:54  

and again, you can find that all in one loan simulator, where you can plug in some real numbers and see how it can benefit you. A friendly representative from Ridge can help you. Go ahead and do that there. So there's a lot of excitement about the all in one loan, especially, or an investor that has a GRE mindset philosophy and thinks about the opportunity of dead equity. But now that we've talked about that, tell us just quickly about some of the other products that you offer in there at ridge.

 

Caeli Ridge  43:23  

 So I think one of the real value adds for us is that we're not a one size fits all. We have an extremely diverse menu, as I like to call it, of loan programs. The all in one is at the top of a short list of my favorites. For some individuals, you got the fanniefriddies. You've got non QM, which includes DSCR, debt service, coverage ratio, bank statement loans, asset depletion loans. We have ground up construction for those that are interested in that. We have our short term bridge loans that I talked briefly about, where if you need fix and flip fix and hold, potentially, you need shorter term money, commercial loans for commercial products, commercial loans for residential in a cross collateralization way, if that is to your advantage. So as you can see, it's quite diverse. 

 

Keith Weinhold  44:03  

It's been valuable as always, and I definitely learned a few extra things that I did not know about the all in one loan myself. JAYLEE Reyes, it's been great having you back on the show, Keith. Thank you.

 

Now a mortgage company, of course, they have overhead and employees that they have to pay and so on. And you know, from talking with Chaley some more, I learned that they don't even make much profit from all in one loans. We wanted to discuss it together today for your benefit. However, though there are some real fees with the all in one loan, you pay points of three to 4% of the draw in closing costs only, but it's a one time fee, not every time you draw against it. She also let me know that it does not make your taxes substantially. More complicated, if you think that it can help you clear a few minutes, learn more and get hooked up with that all in one loan simulator, where they will help you through it. Big thanks to Caeli Ridge today, they really make themselves available. You can just call 855, 74, Ridge. Or if it's more your style, visit them at Ridge lending group.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 1  45:31  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  45:59  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.

 

 

Keith discusses the impact of baby boomers on the housing market, noting that contrary to popular belief, many boomers are choosing to age in place. He also addresses the negative effects of gambling, particularly sports gambling, on young men, including financial ruin and increased bankruptcies.

54% of baby boomers state that they will never sell their homes. 

People aged 55+ own more than half of U.S. homes.

The overall population growth in the US has grown at its fastest rate since 2001, reaching over 340 million.

Millennials and Gen Z, the largest generations, are driving future housing demand. 

Resources:

GRE Free Investment Coaching:GREmarketplace.com/Coach

Show Notes:

GetRichEducation.com/541

For access to properties or free help with a

GRE Investment Coach, start here:

GREmarketplace.com

Get mortgage loans for investment property:

RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE 

or e-mail: [email protected]

Invest with Freedom Family Investments. 

You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866

Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” 

For advertising inquiries, visit:

GetRichEducation.com/ad

Best Financial Education:

GetRichEducation.com

Get our wealth-building newsletter free—

text ‘GRE’ to 66866

Our YouTube Channel:

www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation

Follow us on Instagram:

@getricheducation

Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

Welcome to GRE. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold. All the baby boomers are about to sell off their homes and downsize, unleashing a glut of supply onto the market, and housing prices crash. Is there cogency to that theory or not? I give you a definitive answer, the Trump bump, then later, a pernicious vice is destroying more people's lives today, especially young men and almost no one is talking about this. It's leading to lower credit scores, more bankruptcies and even more suicides today on get rich education

 

since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com.

 

Corey Coates  1:25  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:41  

Welcome to GRE from Hyannis, Massachusetts to Hiram, Utah and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are inside get rich education episode 541 just another slack jawed and snaggletoothed podcaster here now a popular, I suppose, media narrative that's been out there for a long time is this premise that US housing prices are going to crash hard because all the aging baby boomers are going to sell their homes, and Boomers are the biggest generation in all of American history. This is just going to magnify the price collapse. It means far more home sellers than buyers. So soon enough, sellers will have to keep cutting prices. Everyone's going to undercut everybody to compete with all of these for sale homes. So as a result, everybody's property values are going to collapse today. Let's look at how bad it will get. Should you get ahead of this and sell it all now and then? I'll even tell you when this popular narrative will supposedly happen with boomers selling en masse, or won't it happen at all. That's what we're looking at, the term silver tsunami. You've probably heard that thrown around in the real estate world. It actually refers to pent up housing stock that older homeowners will eventually choose to sell, which would have that effect of flooding the market with all this new inventory. All right. Now let's define what we're talking about here. Baby Boomers are the generation born just after World War Two, between 1946 and 64 that makes them between the ages of 61 and 79 this year. Okay, so basically, these people are in their 60s and 70s. That's their age. My parents are baby boomers. President Trump is at the upper age limit for a boomer, but they're not all as old as you think. I mean the youngest baby boomers include Michelle Obama, Sandra Bullock and Rob Lowe. So not all boomers are like super old, but see, it is a big generation of over 76 million people. So whatever they do really moves the economy. And maybe you've heard it been said, My gosh, what if we have more dyers than buyers? But now a more nascent trend is that you hear about more and more boomers and people older than boomers not selling their home instead wanting to age in place. And that just means they want to stay in their home and not go to a nursing home or assisted living. And that was recently quantified in a survey that Housing Wire reported on it found that 54% of baby boomers say that they'll never sell their homes, some of them passing homes along as inheritance and see often that's because their home is paid off and assisted living care costs are through. To the roof, more than half of boomers don't have any mortgage at all. All right, so we've established that boomers aren't as old as most people think, and then a lot of them aren't planning to sell. But still, let's look for trouble here, because boomers are a huge group, and some portion of them are going to sell is they age, even if a lot of them say that they won't. How about the almost half of boomers with a mortgage? You know what? Here's the thing, if they downsized, like older people have traditionally done. I mean, my grandparents downsized long ago. But do you know what would happen if boomers downsized? Today? For most, their monthly mortgage payment would actually go up if they downsized. That's because of today's higher mortgage rates and home prices. And see, that's a financial reality that keeps them in place. They're never going to downsize. All right, so a lot of boomers are just not going to sell. But still, this wave of selling boomers crashing the housing market, this has been a popular narrative for, I don't know, maybe more than a decade. Now there's been a lot of smoke, so then where is the fire. That's another way to think about this. So there's got to be more to this. And there is, in fact, people age 55 plus, own more than half of the homes in the US. Did you know that? All right? Well, if we pull back from boomers, and let's just take a look at all homeowners of every age, people are staying in their homes longer, whether they're age 30 or 50 or 80, Americans now stay in the same home about 12 years. That is twice as long as 2005 Well, what that means is that homes don't come onto the market and people cannot buy what's not for sale. And then, of course, you've got the well documented interest rate lock in effect. That's a contributor here to people of all ages with 4% mortgages, they are reluctant to sell. And now what we're talking about here are demographics. Remember that quote, demography is destiny, the three word quote from 1800s era French philosopher Auguste Comte, and that's because it's completely predictable. If you're 32 years old today, in 10 years, you'll be 42 totally predictable. All right, if demographics could possibly crash housing crisis, let's step back and see what's going on with overall US, population growth. You know what? It just grew at its fastest rate since 2001 about a full 1% growth last year, yeah, we broke the 340 million population mark for the first time ever. And now, what about the portion that our immigrants, and what if a substantial amount of them get deported? I mean, after Trump settled into the White House for his second term, deportations began almost immediately. Is there enough population growth to buy from the boomers that do sell their homes? Well, if mortgage rates come down into the low fives, then maybe more boomers will sell and bring some more resale inventory onto the market. See, you need a good chunk, though, of buyers to come in from somewhere in order to support future housing prices. Well, where are those buyers going to be? Well, some people still don't realize that the largest generation in American history is, in fact, not baby boomers, it's millennials. They became the biggest group more than five years ago. In fact, Statista tells us that Gen Z isn't far behind them either. Yeah, Gen Z is almost as big as millennials as a group coming right behind them. And of course, this varies a little bit. Demographers parse the generations somewhat differently, but here's what the rise of the biggest generation means, millennials. They're aged 29 to 44 now, and there are over 70 million of them, and then almost as big the next group right behind them, Gen Z. They're ages 13 to 28 they alone number about 70 million themselves, even if you just completely leave the surge in immigration out of the picture and all the additional housing demand that immigration brings. So we're mainly just looking at the domestic side alone here. So. What's happened is that there were 4 million plus births per year from 1990 to 2010 providing a tailwind for housing demand through 2035, 2045, or later. Yeah, we had more births during many of those years than we did in the peak of the baby boom, which was 1957 like I've mentioned on the show before, the average age of a first time homebuyer is now a record high of 38 years old, per the NAR it's really taken a long time for some people to stop playing the video games and moving out of their parents basement. Okay, well, the peak birth year for the US was 2007 I just told you it was elevated between 1990 and 2010 but 2007 was that peak, alright? So take that peak and add 38 years to it, and you know what? The first time homebuyer demand is just going to continue to build, build, build, and not even reach its peak. Then until 2045 or so, the peak birth year 2007 plus 38 years, that is where the crush of future demand is coming from because that person born in 2007 on average, they're not even going to buy their first home until well into the 2040s

 

In fact, the number of Americans turning 35 every single year is High, and it just keeps increasing. It's over 4 million now, already up 25% since 2011 and this number of Americans turning 35 is going to keep rising for another decade or two. In fact, this year, it's going to approach 5 million Americans turning 35 new record territory coming. And I keep bringing this up because 35 is a key age, because by that time, almost everyone has moved out of their parents home, and so that's the time where people either need to rent or own themselves, pushing up both rents and prices, and that's why this wave of demand and pent up demand is just gonna keep coming. And by the way, those stats that I gave you there, they're all sourced from the US Census Bureau. I mean, this is exactly where the housing demand just keeps coming from. It's a big factor about why prices keep going up. The demand just keeps piling on, even though affordability worsened, the demand just keeps coming. And it's just going to keep on coming well in to the 2040s now it could very well ebb substantially by, say, the middle of the 2050s but we'll see, and that is still three decades away. And remember, all of this doesn't even include the additional population growth from immigration and how many non deportees that is going to add to the housing demand on top of this, and then, if that's not enough, there is even more future housing demand expected to come from the declining number of occupants per household. Yes, the reduced household size that Stokes housing demand. I touched on this with you a little before on a prior show. But let me go deeper as we continue to corrode this more dyers than buyers. Theory, as we break this down, people have smaller families today. I think everybody knows that back in 1960 there were 3.3 occupants per household. Today, it's just two and a half. And to give you a simple example of how this itself keeps stoking the housing demand, just say that there's a village of 100 people with three occupants per household, they would need 33 and 1/3 homes over time, when that drops to two occupants per household, that's the direction we're going now that same village needs 50 homes just in order to accommodate the shift in household structure. Well, 50 homes is 50% more than 33 and a third, well, that means 50% more homes are needed, and that's even in a scenario where the population stays the same. Yet it's not staying the same, it's rising, and the population is really rising fast for that key household form. Population age range of 35 to 38 years old. Fewer Americans are living together. I expect the housing market to continue shifting toward smaller household counts. One person households will keep rising. I expect that to be one of the most impactful housing trends of this entire 21st century, and it's also really helping fuel a loneliness epidemic, which is another subject unto itself. Well, the three main drivers of this rise in single person households is that first people are delaying those major life events compared to previous generations. They're attending school longer. They're marrying later. They're buying homes later. They're having children later. And as these events are postponed, the time some young adults spend living alone or without children increases. They're playing video games longer as well. The second driver of these single person households is falling. Birth rates when people have children, many are having fewer than previous generations, reducing the average household size. That's pretty obvious. And then third the population composition is getting older. And older, people tend to live with fewer people. If life expectancy rises, this component of the trend would only intensify. Yes, the whole Brian Johnson thing, he is the health influencer that says we now have alive, the first generation that's going to live forever due to advances in longevity in technology. I mean, my gosh, if he is right, what would that do to housing demand? I mean, and it would also push up our average age even more. Gosh, yet, at the same time that all this demand keeps pushing up. America already has a well publicized overall housing shortage of several million housing units. You already know that story well, construction has picked up a little, but not enough to keep up with demand. In fact, American housing supply is still about 30% below pre pandemic levels. So suffice to say, let me give you a satisfying definitive answer here, when are selling boomers going to crash housing prices? It is highly unlikely that that can even happen at all. In fact, you see fewer stories about this than you used to. More people have come to realize that it is just not happening. And looking at us demographics over the next few cycles, a lot more people will need homes demand continuing to exceed supply. This is why home prices should just keep rising from here. In fact, I have been an active single family rental property investor here myself, single family is where perhaps the greatest shortage is and the greatest demand is at the same time I am owning something that people are definitely going to need more of. Remember, demography is destiny, and they're going to pay more and more for it. When mortgage rates fall, it's probably going to bring in even more buying activity, and now all of this continued upward, long term, future price momentum for housing, of course, that all existed before Donald John Trump step into the White House to start his second term last month. I think the Trump factor, or Trump bump, you know what often gets somewhat exaggerated for what it can do to the economy and housing prices, right? I mean, I've talked to you before, it's about the decisions that you make more so than decisions that a politician makes, but Trump is doing some things on a pretty seismic level these nascent immigrant deportations, that obviously can increase the cost of labor you're exporting away your low cost labor with immigrant deportations. I mean, that is inflation tariffs, though some tariffs have been negotiated away for the time being, that's more inflation. So deportations mean wage increases. That's more inflation. Increased wages mean increased rents. Trump talks lower taxes. Lower taxes can then mean higher rent payments. Proposals to eliminate. Made taxes on tips over time and Social Security, that means that Americans and retirees are gonna have more disposable income. More income means higher rent collections, fewer delinquencies, and potentially rising home prices as affordability improves. That's a lot of the good news. It's not all rosy news. You better look out for high tax states salt adjustments that state and local income tax and a deduction cap could harm their property values. We're talking about places like California, New York and New Jersey, the 2017 Trump tax cuts and Jobs Act that gave real estate investors some really juicy benefits, like 20% pass through deduction for LLCs and bonus depreciation on rental properties and lower corporate tax rates too. Combined this stuff, it all keeps more money in your pocket and allows for bigger deals with better cash flow. 

 

We're talking about Trump bump factors on the real estate market here, other proposals on the table, other things like tax breaks for domestic production that could boost us construction, leading to more badly needed housing supply that could lower building costs and investment opportunities in niche in growth markets. Remember opportunity zones, and then what about targeting wealthy investors? We'll see what happens, but Trump's plan removes tax breaks for hedge funds and billionaire sports owners. But could real estate investors get hurt a little on that side too? Maybe look for changes to the 1031 or depreciation strategies. But you know, the 1031 exchange has been around for over 100 years. I would be surprised if it went away completely, and yes, though they have been postponed, if 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada do go into place and the countries retaliate, as they've been shown to do, it would add point seven 6% to US inflation and subtract 410 of a percent from US GDP growth. Aren't those two projections Interesting? Yeah, those estimates were compiled by the Yale budget lab. So adding about three quarters of a percentage point to the overall inflation rate with these tariffs. I mean everything we're talking about the price of your housing or your car tires or your tomatoes and romaine lettuce. I mean, that effect could take money out of people's pockets. Yes, we know that Trump wants to bring down interest rates, but I don't know how he's going to do that. I mean, as you know, more inflation correlates with higher rates, not lower ones. See, you just can't get it all. You just can't have it all. And of course, mortgage rates are not historically high. They've simply been normalized after years of being artificially low. Rates are normal. So normalized is really a term that I like to use. So really, to help summarize what I've shared with you here in the first half of the show, a housing price crash induced by a boomer sell off is not a thing. In fact, almost Oppositely, demographics in this pent up demand should raise up future home prices, and to a lesser extent, a Trump bump can as well. Yes, gosh, Trump just has an insatiable fascination for tariffs. It is truly amazing, and it has more stick to itiveness than say, Mark Zuckerberg, recent fascination with masculine energy and gold chains, that's for sure.

 

Hey, before we get into the pernicious vice that's destroying more people's lives today, especially young men and almost no one is talking about this, it's leading to lower credit scores, more bankruptcies and even more suicides. First, I've got some cool things to tell you. About two weeks ago here on the show event, host Robert Helms of the real estate guys and I invited you to join us on the terrific Investor Summit at sea, that cruise on the Caribbean. Besides the two of us, there are a number of other great faculty members. Robert Kiyosaki recently announced that he's going to be joining us on the faculty as well. So you'll get to meet and learn from Robert Kiyosaki, and if you happen to be a new listener, he is the top selling personal finance author of all time the. Rich Dad, Poor Dad, author, and he's been our guest here on the GRE podcast four times. Now, I hope to meet you, the listener, in person on the summit at sea in the Caribbean this June, starting out of Miami. Gosh, what an outstanding time that is. It's not a low cost event, however, the minimum cabin in interior cabin is $5,900 and they are more expensive from there if you get nicer accommodations. But all the details are there on GRE podcast episode 539 two weeks ago. I really hope you'll join us and then I can meet you in person.

 

Earlier this month, Trump established a US sovereign wealth fund, and when he did, I congratulated our frequent contributor here, macro economist Richard Duncan, because Richard championed the establishment of that fund for years. He presented to Congress about it, and Richard was the first ever GRE guest with us back here in 2014 on the Panama coffee farm investing that we've discussed here on the show, Villanova University reached out to them, and they're now collaborating together. It's something I find kind of cool, as a Pennsylvania native and one of my tightest best friends is also a Villanova alum, as for future episodes coming up on the show. Here, imagine if you had a property loan, yet you didn't have to make any payments, and if you did make payments on your loan, then every penny of that payment goes to principal, not to interest. Wouldn't that be incredible? Well, such a thing does exist, and it's not new or experimental or avant garde. People just don't know about this vehicle. We're going to discuss that right here on next week's show, along with some other vital mortgage topics. There are three ways to connect with our education at GRE you're listening to one of them right now, our flagship podcast. Also check out our get rich education YouTube channel, because that is different content than this show. That's the second way, and that show is also on other video first, platforms like get rich education on rumble, and finally, you'll have it all, all three when you get our weekly Don't quit your Daydream newsletter if you don't already get it free now, while it's on your mind, simply text GRE 266, 86, more. Next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education. 

 

Hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine, at Ridge lending group NMLS 420056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties, they help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com

 

 Oh geez, the initial average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings, so your bank is getting rich off of you. You've got to earn way more, or else you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work with minimum risk, your cash generates up to a 10% return and compounds year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25k you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back. Their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And you know how I'd know, because I'm an investor in this myself, earn 10% like me and GRE listeners are. Text family to 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text family to 66866.

 

Robert Kiyosaki  29:31  

this is our rich dad Poor Dad. Author Robert Kiyosaki, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold and Don't Quit Your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  29:50  

Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, every once in a while, there's an investing adjacent activity that becomes. Is pronounced or become such a trend that it just can't be ignored, and you need to know about it. I recently presented on how gambling is financially derailing so many people today, especially young men and sports gambling and what makes California and Texas special here, the two most populous states, by the way, you'll see, once they legalize this, it's gonna get worse. There are two states where it's not legal yet now investing in gambling. They are two distinctly different activities. Investing is different from gambling. When you invest, you're purchasing a stake in an asset that has value in an effort to generate profit. But gambling doesn't involve taking ownership of anything of value. Instead, betters are predicting the outcome of an event gambling. It's really not a side hustle. I mean, people are constantly losing their families and businesses over this. This will be all new material here on the show as usual, except for a short snippet that includes super CPA Tom Wheelwright. This is about 10 minutes in length. Shout out to the media team here at GRE on the production side. And then after this, I have more to tell you about real estate. 

 

Speaker 1  31:30  

America is in the midst of an historic surge in legalized gambling.

 

Keith Weinhold  31:37  

This is the worst thing that people are now doing with their time and money today, it's not losing it to inflation, it's not playing video games. It's being a slack jawed gambling degenerate. We are in the midst of an historic surge in legalized gambling, and the devastation on gamblers, especially young men is a lot worse than you think. I've also got a giant ominous warning for you that seasoned gamblers don't even know about when I bring in my CPA for just a minute here today on the seriously punishing tax implications that should scare anybody out of gambling. 

 

Hi, I'm Keith Weinhold, get rich education, founder, Forbes real estate council member, best selling, author, and long time real estate investor. Almost 60% of 18 to 24 year olds have placed at least one sports bet now that's per the NCAA, and that has surged so fast. I mean, just less than a decade ago, major pro sports leagues shunned gambling, disassociating with it because it was illegal in most places. The big turning point was 2018 that's when the Supreme Court ended a decades long ban on commercialized sports betting. 38 states and DC have now legalized it most with minimum age requirements set at 21 and the two biggest platforms are DraftKings and fam duel. They've got about 70% of the market. But look, you can do this if you're under 21 on platforms like prize picks and flip they offer betting like experiences. They operate under fantasy sports or sweepstakes, and having these apps on your phone that just brings the gambling right to you. It keeps it in your face and addictive. Now it's like you're sitting in a casino when you're on your living room so far, or in your bed or even in the bathroom, there is no escape. Two thirds of Americans live in a state where they can access it on their phones. And look how young some of these gamblers are, what they have to say. And then who's showing up in these gamblers Anonymous meetings

 

Speaker 1  33:56  

today's world is the 16, 1718, year olds, 1921, year olds that get addicted years ago, before, unlike casinos, if we had a person coming in and they're 24 years old, it was rare. All right, now the norm, the real norm, it's kids coming in at 17 years old. That's the norm. 

 

Keith Weinhold  34:16  

Well, one big reason why it's such a problem is, look, you can't hide it, so that therefore others can't tell if you're gambling, because you're not, you know, shooting it into your veins, or you're not acting drunk, or you're not smoking anything. See, you can gamble without exhibiting a physical change, so therefore others don't know that you need help. And it is all over the place. I mean, gambling ads air on TV over 60,000 times a year. Celebrities endorse gambling. I mean, some teams put gambling ads right on the field. Brick and mortar sports books are even built inside some stadiums now, Caesars and bet MGM. There are two other big platforms that you might see out there, but I mean, in their commercials, yeah, they can put that one 800 gambler help number on screen and tell you things like, gamble within your limits. But look, here's the thing these platforms, they're not going to cut you off if you continue to lose and they profit. In fact, if you win disproportionately big time after time, and these platforms can kind of tell that you're too smart. You know what they do, like a casino that identifies a card shark in Vegas, they're either gonna curtail your activity or just totally cut you off, alright? So then, by definition, if you have an account in good standing at FanDuel or DraftKings, and you bet a lot, and they keep letting you play well, then you have just signaled to the entire world that you don't know what you're doing, and you are going to lose big, or you already have. I mean, that is baked into the cake. That's how the system works. So therefore these companies are basically mining America to find anyone stupid enough to keep placing these sports bets. Companies are profiting from this, and then states are too. I mean, they've collected billions in tax revenue and FanDuel and DraftKings, see, they're publicly traded companies, so this means that they have shareholders, and those shareholders, they want to see profit and growth. I recently asked decorated CPA and mega popular tax author Tom Wheelwright about tax rates on gambling for just a quick three minutes here. I mean, you won't believe how punishing This is. 

 

Can you tell us about sports gambling taxes and how it's treated

 

Tom Wheelwright  36:43  

yeah. So remember, all income is taxable. So that includes gambling winnings. They are taxable. In fact, you'll get a 1099 just like you would if you rendered services, you know, you'd get a 1099 right? Or you have interest income, you get 1099 you get 1099 from gambling. What you actually have to show is that you actually have gambling losses. So you have to track those gambling losses to show the IRS that you've got gambling losses. But your gambling losses can never be more than your gambling winnings. In other words, you don't you never get to generate a tax loss on gambling. So that means is, is that if you win $10,000 during the year, and you can prove that you lost $8,000 during the year, you're gonna be taxed on $2,000 but if you can't prove the 8000 you're gonna be taxed on 10,000 Yeah,

 

Keith Weinhold  37:39  

so you the gambler have the burden of tracking this, and I guess tracking your losses. I'm not a gambler. How would one track their losses?

 

Tom Wheelwright  37:47  

Oh, I would keep a detailed ledger. Personally, I'd probably have a separate bank account just for gambling. Gosh, that's the way I would do it. I'm not a gambler either. So by the way, it's also a good way to budget your gambling so they, you know, get in trouble, right? So just set up a separate bank account, put whatever money you say, I'm comfortable with this money, I'm going to gamble with this money, put in that bank account, and then you have a ledger that shows the money that went in and the money you lost, the money you won, and don't do anything but gambling in that bank account.

 

Keith Weinhold  38:18  

Hey, that separate account's a great way to hide it from your spouse, not that I'm suggesting.

 

Tom Wheelwright  38:25  

Well, interesting. You went there.

 

Keith Weinhold  38:29  

I'm not a gambler at all. Can't even believe I was thinking that far ahead. What are the gambling tax rates like? They're ordinary

 

Tom Wheelwright  38:35  

income tax rates. So gambling winnings are just ordinary income they're they're the same as your wages. They don't have social security taxes their income, just like any other kind of income, nothing special, okay?

 

Keith Weinhold  38:47  

And this all applies to whether it's sports gambling or general gambling, like lotteries and sweepstakes. 

 

Tom Wheelwright  38:53  

Just remember, all incomes taxable unless the government says it isn't all income, okay? And then there's some types of income that are taxed at special rates, like capital gains, but gambling has no special rate, so it's just your ordinary income rates.

 

Keith Weinhold  39:09  

Gosh, to me, it seems like it's, it's hard to break even with gambling over time, and then when you take the tax adjusted earnings that you get from it, you know, over the long term, you know, I just don't think Harris and Bally's Casino is really incentivized to inform gamblers on how punitive this can be with ordinary income tax rates applied to gambling winnings.

 

Tom Wheelwright  39:30  

No, but they will send you your 1090, 9g I guarantee that.

 

Keith Weinhold  39:34  

 So can you imagine tracking all that and then paying all that in tax, and this is even if you're on the winning side and then keeping a separate bank account as well. And note that Tom and I were talking federal. There. It gets even worse. Some state laws are punishing, like New York, which has a 51% tax rate on mobile sports wagering bank. Up 28% since states have legalized this and credit scores have dropped now, California and Texas are the two big states, and they still haven't legalized sports gambling. They're the two big ones, and when they do, that's when you'll see more bankruptcy and more people, especially young men in financial ruin. I mean gamblers, Anonymous meetings are filled with people hooked on betting and on stock options trading too, and you know, Worse still, among addiction disorders, gambling has a comparatively high suicide attempt rate. And you know, understand that, while both involve risk, investing in gambling are two different things. When you invest, you're purchasing a stake in an asset that has value in an effort to generate profit. But gambling doesn't involve taking ownership of anything with value. Instead, betters are predicting the outcome of an event. Now, I gambled as a teen on sports, and back then, it was just a friend and I, we would each lay a $20 bill on top of the television at the start of like a Mets versus Phillies baseball game, and then it sure made the game more interesting to watch. There wasn't any sort of app to make it easy, suck me in and make it a recurrent practice. I haven't gambled since. Now that you're aware of the gravity of the problem, the best thing you can do for yourself is to delete those apps off your phone. Because look, I mean every gambler that had their lies flipped over and turned catastrophic at one time, they told themselves, you know, I'm doing this, but it's under control. I mean, everybody once said that the best thing you can do is delete FanDuel DraftKings and any other apps like that off of your phone right now and vow to never do it again. I hope you like that. You know, it's sort of interesting and introspective to me that I would produce a piece of media like this because I am a sports fan. I watched more of the NFL this past season than I have in a while. You know, I'm in a phase of my life, or I'm a pretty productive person, doing research and interviewing guests and producing GRE media. But you know, I justified watching more sports lately because there's room for an entertainment bucket in everyone's life. That's how I feel. And you know, I don't really watch movies. Most movies I watch feel like a waste of my time when I'm done after two hours, because I'm usually disappointed in it. If I ever watch movies, I gotta watch movies on the plane, because even if it was lousy, I got somewhere in the process. So in any case, now, if gambling is controlled, well, then it might be debatable about whether or not it's a vice, like, say you go to Vegas and have your $250 spending limit or whatever. 

 

But just remember, every gambling degenerate once told themselves and everybody that they know that they've got it under control, but yeah, often they didn't around here, we champion owning real estate directly yourself, that is something that is in your control. So we're not talking about REITs, Real Estate Investment Trusts. That's just a publicly owned company and a group of them. It's not real estate tokenization. That means owning digital fractional shares of a property or a real estate investment. I mean direct whole ownership also means it's not a syndication now that might be worth doing, though, that means that you're pooling other investors money. It's not direct whole investing. If you are investing in someone else's syndication, meaning that you're a limited partner and direct real estate investing, it means not being a flipper or a wholesaler. Again, those things might be worth doing, but they're really time consuming, and they're not tax advantaged either. But when you own rental real estate directly yourself, you don't even need to be a landlord. If you choose not to you, then will not be that point of contact for your tenants when others manage it. And yes, because of the five ways that you're paid, you can make the case that real estate has hegemony over other assets, and for the demographic reasons and the inflationary reasons, like the ones that I told you about earlier today, real estate appears poised to continue as the. Hegemon. In fact, recently, so many global hedge funds have dumped every stock that they have, except for the real estate stocks. I shared that article with you in our newsletter recently. That's largely a tariff response. Let me tell you about real properties on GRE marketplace right now that are ripe for owning directly. I mean direct ownership. That's also the easiest to understand. You are paid rent by a tenant that lives there, often through your property manager, and unlike the out of control sports gambler, this is very much in your control. A brand new build single family rental in Columbiana, Alabama, that's just south of Birmingham. Rent is $1,925 the price is $269,900 over 1600 square feet, four, bed, two bath. Now with the new build, expect low maintenance costs. Is currently vacant, get an interest rate of six and three quarters percent with a 25% down payment on this new build, single family rental in Alabama. Then another sample here. This is interesting. The rent on this old build Davenport Iowa duplex is $1,900 which is about the same rent as the Alabama single family rental I just described. But yet the price for this Davenport duplex is just $183,000 Davenport is part of America's Quad Cities with a combined population of about half a million with both duplex sides. It's a combined square footage of almost 2700 square feet, five, bed, two, bath. They're on Brown Street in Davenport, and now, as favorable as those $1,900 combined duplex rents are, since this property is vintage, in fact, it's over 100 years old, you better check closely on the renovations that were made to the property and have plenty set aside for any maintenance and repairs as well, with a 25% down payment, expect an interest rate of just six and one quarter percent. And there are more financing details there. And of course, rates are always changing. The last one I'll mention is this new build, another duplex, this one in Inverness, Florida. This is really interesting too. And now, what do you think when you think of Florida, real estate? Does climate change come to mind? For some people, it does. For some it doesn't, maybe even rising sea levels over the long term. Well, Inverness, Florida is 15 to 20 miles inland, and it's 50 feet above sea level. How about high insurance rates? Does that come to mind with Florida? Well, they're not so high on new build properties, since they're built to today's stringent hurricane standards. Is Florida temporarily over built, even though the nation, in aggregate is under built? Yes, some Florida markets are overbuilt, and that's how you could potentially snag a deal and get this with 25% down, you can get an interest rate as low as four and three quarter percent, yes, and that's showing with zero buyer paid discount points, the combined rent from both sides of this new build Inverness duplex is estimated at $2,830 of course, often you need to estimate a rent range or make an estimate on the projected rent for new builds, because often they're not occupied yet, since they were just built, sales price of just a touch under 420k on the Inverness duplex, and as just one of the five ways you're paid the cash on cash return is projected at 5% yes, your return goes up into the positive cash flow zone when your mortgage rate is as low as four and three quarters percent. I mean, that is really attractive. It also comes with a year of free property management. So there you go, a new build single family rental in Alabama, an old duplex in Davenport, Iowa, and a new build duplex with just killer incentives in Inverness, Florida, and that's just the sampling of real estate pays five ways type of properties. We either help you get started or continue on your path to financial freedom and help you do that. With our completely free investment coaching, we work with you to help you with these properties or others like them or none at all, if it's not in your best interest to invest now at GRE marketplace.com All you need to do to get started from GRE marketplace.com is click on the coaching area and you can get on the calendar for a free strategy session until next week, I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 2  50:35  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively, Chris,

 

Keith Weinhold  51:03  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com

 

Keith shares the top amenities tenants want in rental units, based on a survey by GreyStar with over 90,000 responses. He’s joined by long-time friends of the show, Terry and Liz to discuss investment strategies, emphasizing the importance of buying properties in the "sweet spot" and the benefits of allowing pets, which can lead to longer tenant stays. 

They also touch on: 

• Trade-offs Between Buying Multiple Cheap Properties vs. One Expensive Property

• Quality of Properties and Tenant Demographics

• Screening Tenants and Handling Pets

• New Construction vs. Renovated Properties

• Investor Life Cycle and Exit Strategies

Resources:

Visit MidSouthHomeBuyers.com and explore their investment opportunities.

Show Notes:

GetRichEducation.com/540

GRE Free Investment Coaching:GREmarketplace.com/Coach

For access to properties or free help with a

GRE Investment Coach, start here:

GREmarketplace.com

Get mortgage loans for investment property:

RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE 

or e-mail: [email protected]

Invest with Freedom Family Investments. 

You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866

Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” 

For advertising inquiries, visit:

GetRichEducation.com/ad

Best Financial Education:

GetRichEducation.com

Get our wealth-building newsletter free—

text ‘GRE’ to 66866

Our YouTube Channel:

www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation

Follow us on Instagram:

@getricheducation

Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

Welcome to GRE! I'm your host, Keith Weinhold. What are the features that tenants want in their rental units today, and what amenities are most profitable for real estate investors? Bedroom, count, bathroom, count, cover, parking, pet policy and more, what matters what doesn't, and how do you optimize operations to maximize your profit? It's a conversation with me and two terrific real estate pro guests today on get rich education. 

 

Speaker 1  0:31  

Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, who delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com

 

Corey Coates  1:17  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:33  

Welcome to GRE from Tacoma, Washington to the took pony Palmyra bridge spanning the Delaware out of Philadelphia and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education, the voice of real estate investing Since 2014 I'm grateful for your faithful listenership. If you're new around here, join in at GRE we do this one big headline show every week, never more, never fewer, and truly, every single week for more than 10 years now, let's talk about amenities that tenants want in apartments today, before we pivot to discussing properties in general and single family homes in our conversation coming shortly. Now, you might have heard of GrayStar before they are international real estate developers and managers, well, they received more than 90,000 survey responses from apartment tenants on their most preferred features and amenities. So we've got a good sample size here, and Gray star compiled the top 20. Let's just hit the top five. This is important, because your tenant is your customer, and when you serve them, you're not only making them happy, you yourself are positioned to be more profitable long term. Here we go. The number one preferred feature is, do you have any guess what tenants want? It's the walk in closet. 51% of apartment tenants said that they are interested in this feature, and 37% would not rent an apartment without it. On average, they're willing to pay a $75 a month premium, and the survey shows that this is particularly important in Dallas and Miami, where over half said that they would not rent without it. The second most important amenity to apartment tenants is large windows with abundant natural light. 56% that they're interested in this feature. 31% would not rent an apartment without it, and on average, they're willing to pay an $80 a month premium for the large windows. When you think about how more tenants work from home today than five years ago? Well, big windows make more sense. Third most important is fresh air ventilation. 69% said that they're interested in it, and on average, they're willing to pay a $79 per month premium. The highest demand for fresh air ventilation is in Seattle, San Francisco and San Jose. We're talking about the top five amenities that apartment tenants want today in order, the fourth most important one is covered parking or a garage. 52% said that they're interested in this feature. Fully a third would not rent an apartment without it, and on average, they're willing to pay a $75 a month premium, and this is most important in urban areas with a covered parking or garage, where 42% will not rent a unit without it, in those urban areas. And then the fifth one is high efficiency appliances, 71% said they're interested in this feature. On average, they're willing to pay a $79 a month premium, and this, this high efficiency appliance thing, is more important for the high income tenant segment. So there they are, the top five features and amenities that. Apartment tenants want today. So to review, in order, it's a walk in closet, big windows, fresh air, ventilation, covered parking or a garage, and finally, high efficiency appliances. And listen in as I'll have a robust discussion with two season real estate pros. We're going to go beyond apartments about the features that tenants and real estate investors alike want today, and at times, they will talk about their home markets of Memphis, Tennessee and Little Rock, Arkansas, which are some of the most investor advantaged markets anywhere. And you'll have to calibrate some of these numbers to your market, because in these places, the typical single family rental purchase is just 100 to 200k and rent is between$900 and 1600 and at other times, we will talk more nationally and globally. 

 

Hey, well, I'd like to welcome in long time friends of the show, with the emphasis on long time since they were first here with us, more than 10 years ago on episode nine in 2014 those ever steady quality property providers from Memphis, Tennessee, mid south homebuyers, it's the return of their principal, Terry Kerr and investor relations lead, Liz Nalen, Terry and Liz, welcome back.

 

Terry Kerr  6:25  

Thank you, Keith. It's great to be here. Thanks so much, Keith, great to be back. 

 

Keith Weinhold  6:28  

Yes, it's beginning to feel like a high school class reunion or something. I anticipate my high school class reunions just like I anticipate our discussion today. Let's talk about your individual takes on investment philosophy, common investor mistakes, and is some investor conventional wisdom true, or is it not? Because there's probably some of that that we have to debunk, I think a common one. And I know you get that question in there from investors and our listeners, you had that conversation it was it better to buy two cheap properties or one expensive property talk to us about some of those trade offs.

 

Liz Nowlin  7:07  

 It's such an interesting thing, and there's so many factors you can look at. I broke it down for myself personally. Probably 12 years ago, I was asking myself that question as an investor and I ran 2 $50,000 houses, I'm dating myself against $100,000 house, and even when I manipulated the appreciation for the $100,000 house at the higher rate. And actually, we've been talking about investor conventional wisdom, and that is actually a piece of conventional wisdom I've not seen hold true as much, but that a higher end neighborhood is going to appreciate a more rapid pace than a more blue collar neighborhood. So that, as a side note, is a piece of conventional wisdom that I've seen a bit debunked, but it really ramping up the appreciation on the $100,000 house. I think I put it at reselling at like 180 or 190 down the line, and I put my $50,000 houses at maybe 90. You know, not as aggressive for me. Two houses beat one, every kind of way that I shook it out. And of course, the 50,000s had lower individual cash flows, but still, I think matching or higher than the 100. And the one thing I'm not sure that I put in there is two water heaters versus one water heater, two furnaces versus one, but running the same maintenance in general for them. Terry, what do you think

 

Terry Kerr  8:32  

I started out buying houses a little bit lower than I should and what I mean a little bit lower like and a little bit lower quality neighborhoods, and quickly learned that you can't buy too low, you know, you got to buy them, you know, in the sweet spot. So I bought in the A class areas. I bought in the areas that were a little too low, and then found the sweet spot. And then within the sweet spot, I've got a bunch of houses that are in the mid range where we typically operate, and personally, I've also got a bunch of duplexes. I like duplexes. So whether that's duplexes or a little bit upper or a little bit lower, personally, I like a mix of them. And I'm a buy and hold guy. So the stuff that I buy and hold I'm holding for the extra long time, initially, right out of the gate, you've got to look at things like cost segregation, closing costs and all that kind of deal. So really, everyone kind of needs to run their own numbers, because what might make sense for one person just might not make sense for someone else. And again, I'm kind of all over the board. You factor in how much you're going to spend in closing costs, how long do you intend to hold the property? What's it going to cost to sell the property in 1015, 20 years. But again, the cost segregation and just everyone needs to kind of run their own numbers. I think. 

 

Speaker 2  9:47  

closing costs times two versus times one is an interesting point. Paying to mow a yard is paying to mow a yard. But then you get into another rub that I think I put them I don't think I did a square footage variation, but I like smaller Homes. It's less on paint. It's less on vacant utilities. The lower your rent is to a degree, the more people can afford to rent it, and the more recession proof you are, in my opinion. And I wasn't running through that as well, but in my antique valuation from 2012 that $100,000 house is going to be bigger often than the littler guys for the rent. Not you know, you can have a play between neighborhood quality and size of house with rents, which is a determining price. But Keith, what do you think two or one? 

 

Keith Weinhold  10:33  

Yeah, the two thing versus one thing has a lot of trade offs. As an investor, I think about the advantages of where one is going to have less management, even though I use a property manager, but with respect to the size of the property, I think a lot of us know, and the new investor doesn't know, say, a 1500 square foot unit versus a 3000 square foot rental unit. Well, with the 3000 you often have twice the maintenance, but you only get a little more in rent income. So depending on the market you're in, typically something more like a 1500 square foot rental unit is going to work out better.

 

Terry Kerr  11:06  

Yep, I agree. And then also, another one of the things that I found out is buying houses a little too far up market going to be renting to folks that are more apt to buy a house, right? And so you might have more turnover and a more expensive house just because it's in, you're renting in an area where folks may just not stay as long. And one of the things that that, of course, we like about Memphis is it's predominantly a rental market, so we're able to kind of have the best of both worlds there. But 

 

Liz Nowlin  11:32  

kind of, going back to investor conventional wisdom, I think a common mistake, or maybe a mistake isn't the right word, but I hear investors say that they would not buy a house that they would not live in, and I find that they tend to be very expansive times of their life. They often have young children are possibly planning to do it. And one of the best renters I ever had was a little old lady on Social Security, on a fixed income. She lived in my house for seven years. She paid on time like crazy. She added a garden that my home didn't have, and she would have never paid the extra $25 a month that a second bathroom would have called for from that property. And people forget that you'd people downsize as much as they upsize. There's divorce or just retirement, there's empty nesters. Families shift down as much as they shift up. Because investors are often they're talking to me from their four bedroom, two bath house, and they couldn't conceive of renting a smaller thing long term. They just kind of missed that aspect.

 

Keith Weinhold  12:38  

 Right for me, it's definitely not a criterion. Would I live in the property myself? And that makes it eligible to hold as a rental? No, it's just the opposite. Really. I don't think any of my rentals are ones that I would prefer to live in, because it wouldn't upgrade my lifestyle. Yet, it's still doing the clean, safe, affordable, functional housing thing. We're talking about the quality of properties here. Class A, properties are deemed the best class, D, the worst. What are your thoughts? Is B class better than C class? And is a really the best of all? I mean, for example, do you get better renters in a class, or are they finicky and then they have the means to move out and go buy their own place, if they have a 790 credit score and they're living in a class a unit, what are your thoughts here?

 

Terry Kerr  13:22  

 I think c plus to b minus is the sweet spot. You get into the a plus. Like you said, there's going to be more turnover, because folks are going to be buying houses, and then you've got expensive appliances that you're going to be responsible for fixing in and a lot of A plus neighborhoods, but the C minus, and I can only really truly speak to Memphis and Little Rock, but the C minus the B plus I feel is the sweet spot that's for the size of the property, as well as the typical length of rentership.

 

Liz Nowlin  13:52  

I managed a class for about a decade before I came to work for Terry in 2009 and we ran a great ship, and we had a great, beautiful high rise, but a year was really the average stay a class renters are more litigious. I was operating a building next to a law school, and I had young lawyers and law students, but that's going to be true in any kind of a class area. When you're paying a rent of that amount you are going to call in a work order because the doorknob is slightly loose, a lot of it. And very interestingly, I think we still had some collection issues, even renting to nurses, lawyers, just a small percentage. It's the dark side of property management. But I saw alcoholism, divorce just in a small percentage. But it doesn't wipe it out the way that you would think it would. I've seen college students going to WashU and Ivy League level stuff leave apartments in terrible, terrible conditions. Think that's another kind of investor myth around that 

 

Terry Kerr  14:52  

the blue collar folks that we're renting to here in Memphis and Little Rock, they're not going to call us for the loose doorknob. They're just going to pull out the screwdriver. And fix it, just to kind of piggyback on that. It's another one of the benefits of operating in that space

 

Speaker 2  15:05  

 lawn care. It's a little thing, but everything adds up, right? Like our renters are going to mow their own lawns and they expect it, and it's how it was at their last place. You're not pulling that off at the high high end

 

Keith Weinhold  15:16  

when you're screening tenants. Do you have the ability to tell when someone is going to look after the place better, and because a lot of the single family home rentals that you do, I mean the tenants, for example, are even responsible for taking care of their lawn, or are they going to be responsible enough to call in a leak, but not so annoying that they're going to call you to adjust the kitchen cabinet door that's a little bit loose. So how can you help screen tenants to learn some of those things before they even move in.

 

Speaker 2  15:43  

Our typical renter is coming to us from another single family home, and so one of the kind of unique ways that we screen tenants is that you have to have immediate landlord history. It's like with a lot of places, if you go rent somewhere for a couple years, you leave in good standing, you come and live with your mom for a year, everybody else in town would accept that positive rental history from a prior place. But one thing that that I love about working here and then what we do is that being in business for 24 years, we've had a lot of chances to kind of do things the wrong way and figure out how to do it right. And they Terry instituted a system in the early years, where any time a renter fell off the rails, they would look back through that file, was there anything? Was there anything that could have predicted that? And sometimes the answer is no, and it's just the first time somebody's hit hard times. But one of the things they found is, well, hey, this guy hadn't paid rent in a year. He did have good rental history, but he hadn't paid rent in a year, and then that bill, he'd gotten used to not paying so much, and so that just helps.

 

Terry Kerr  16:47  

Absolutely

 

Keith Weinhold  16:48  

 yes, getting that reference from their current or previous landlord can give you so much on what the expectations are going to be for the tenancy there in their place. And then, of course, there's a whole thing where, if you're talking to the current landlord and they're trying to move out, you're really trying to get to the bottom of the things and just find out if their current landlord wants them to move out because they can't get pay, or they're doing something nefarious. They're not paying rent, or something like that. That's sort of something that one needs to decipher as well. But of course, the history is going to help project the future better than anything else. And one thing we're talking about the operations of properties, and you sort of touched on it. Liz, where you had that tenant that started her own garden, she's someone that wouldn't care to pay more for a second bathroom. So why don't we talk about some of the pros and cons with the bathroom? Are two bathrooms always better than one, or is it just one more place to have maintenance and repair problems?

 

Speaker 2  17:40  

real quick, just back on the other thing, for all the philosophies that you can bring, the guy that I worked for before, Terry never did any landlord verifications, because the worst renter he ever had was personally dropped off at the property by the prior landlord. 

 

Keith Weinhold  17:56  

Oh my gosh, making it easy for him. And he said, I'm done

 

Speaker 2  17:59  

so anyway, but the bathrooms is such a hot spot, there's definitely the second bathroom rules crowd. And then I've seen a seasoned investor that says that's just one more toilet to clog.

 

Terry Kerr  18:14  

Yeah, but I would say that right now, I'm pretty sure that the property that I have on Powell is the longest resident I've ever had. She moved in 11 years ago, is still there. It's the smallest house that I own. It's like 794 square feet. It's tiny, and it's got just one bathroom. But she's single, and when she moved in, she said they're gonna have to carry me out of here. And I hope that's not for a long, long time. But like Liz mentioned, there are a lot of folks that just want one bathroom because they're just going to be living in their solo or even married couple. That is downsizing. So we have a mix, and we like to be able to have something, you know, for everyone. So our two bedroom baths perform very well, just like the three twos

 

Keith Weinhold  18:58  

I once owned three rental properties. They were all built the same way. There was one bathroom in each of them, which would have been okay for one or two people to live there, except the only bathroom in these two story places was on the second floor for all three of them, and that did prevent some people from renting it. They didn't like the fact that the only bathroom was upstairs. Yeah, that sounds terrible.

 

Speaker 2  19:20  

Another analogy that's too great, or something I experienced when people think that two bedrooms must be inherently less desirable than three. Kind of connecting to one versus two bathrooms. When I managed that a class high rise, I had a waiting list for my studio apartments. It was the cheapest way that you could live in that neighborhood, period. And I had a three or four month waiting list for the studio apartments. I had a little more trouble renting the one bedrooms and the most trouble renting the penthouse, frankly. And my point with that is that if you price it right, it will always work. You know, if my studios were the same price as my one bedrooms, and of course. Course, I would not have had a waiting list for them. And you know, we have that super unusual lifetime occupancy guarantee mid south it's that, you know, if your property is ever vacant for more than 90 days, we start paying your rent on the 91st day. And I'm often explaining to people that's not us actually being an insurance policy, though it's real, it's in writing, we will pay you if that happens. But what I'm really telling you is that these rents are real. The rent price is meant to perform, and that that's the point. Anything rents well and stays well rented if you price the rent correctly.

 

Keith Weinhold  20:33  

Well, that's an excellent point. We're talking about conventional investor wisdom and the operations of rental properties for investors, with Terry Kerr and Liz Nowlin from mid south homebuyers more than we come back, including is saying yes to pets worth it. This is Get Rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold

 

hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine, at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your [email protected] That's ridgelendinggroup.com

 

Oh geez, the national average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings, so your bank is getting rich off of you. You've got to earn way more, or else you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation, let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work with minimum risk, your cash generates up to a 10% return and compounds year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25k you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back, their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And you know how I'd know, because I'm an investor in this myself, earn 10% like me and GRE listeners are text FAMILY to 66866, to learn about freedom, family investments, liquidity fund, on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text FAMILY to 66866

 

John Lee Dumas  22:37  

this is Entrepreneur on Fire, John Lee Dumas. Don't follow money. Make money. Follow you with get rich education. 

 

Keith Weinhold  22:56  

Welcome back to get rich education. We're talking about efficient operations for real estate investors and the properties that they choose to put into their portfolio, and some of those trade offs with mid south home buyers Terry Kerr and Liz Nowlin. And one thing that seems to be increasingly popular, it sure isn't waning in the past few decades, is the prevalence of pets and tenants that apply and have a pet on there. So there are a lot of pros and cons here. What are your thoughts about pets? Is it worth it or not? 

 

Terry Kerr  23:28  

It's worth it as long as you know what pet is going into the property and you charge a pet fee, amen.

 

Speaker 2  23:36  

I'm a dog lover personally. So I was a renter. I was a good renter with a dog, but you do run into the people I experienced this, where they had the one horror story, and they're like, I never want a pet environmental property again at the end of the day. And that's where you go into what type of pet and a non refundable pet deposit. But what you lose by excluding such a huge percentage of the population from retain your home is going to outweigh the risk of the one off bad pet owner.

 

Terry Kerr  24:11  

I agree.

 

Keith Weinhold  24:12  

We also get into questions of what's legal here. If one does say yes to pets, you mentioned a non refundable pet deposit, why don't you talk to us about the amount of that deposit in relation to the rent, and then can you, or do you also charge more rent monthly in addition to the non refundable pet deposit

 

Terry Kerr  24:33  

 we charge a $250 non refundable pet fee, and that it tends to cover any issues with the pet but one of The things that I'll kind of piggyback on, what Liz said, is, not only are you excluding a large portion of the market, but we find that folks with pets, they just tend to stay in the property longer. I don't know why that is. I can look at my portfolio. I've not like examined all the houses that were managed. Thing, but I know that from with my portfolio, folks that get into the property with pets. I don't know why, but they just tend to stay longer. 

 

Liz Nowlin  25:07  

I may have just had luck, but I have not had any significant pet damages from any of my renters with pets and and kind of more stable, stable folks sometimes. So I think it's worth it. You always understand the person that had the kind of the one bad story, but I really think you could mitigate it. 

 

Keith Weinhold  25:23  

How about hiking up the rent amount for pets? 

 

Terry Kerr  25:23  

We have not done that. It's not something that we've ever done before. I guess it's kind of a if it ain't broke, don't fix it, you know. But we want to be able to provide as much value as we can to the resident to have the leases renew. And so everything that we do, from a rehab standpoint and a property management standpoint, is geared towards resident renewal. I'm not saying we couldn't get maybe an extra 25 bucks a month, but at some point you cause yourself a longer vacancy because you're trying to find someone who's wanted to pay more because they have a pet or may not renew the lease, because they can find some place to go where the rent is cheaper and they're not being charged pet rent, if you will. 

 

Liz Nowlin  25:25  

We charge pet rent at my a class high rise that I managed for a long time. You know, it's not 100% No, it's people complained bitterly about it. I think a pet deposit. Just they stomach it a little bit better. The theme of the show might be, there's a lot of different ways to skin the cat. I got more pushback about that rent charge working directly with the renties than kind of anything else. So I would say we should up the non refundable before we layer it onto the monthly personally

 

Keith Weinhold  26:37  

yeah, if it's paid one time, it seems to be less of an annoyance over time and forgotten. When we talk about pets and think about the long term, after a tenant with a pet moves out, can the place really be adequately cleaned for the next tenant? We know a lot of people are sensitive with allergies today.

 

Terry Kerr  26:56  

Well, fortunately, we bought our own carpet cleaning van. We know what we're doing in regards to, you know, cleaning carpets, and so absolutely you can clean them. I mean, don't get me wrong, there's always going to be like the one off every once in a blue moon, but definitely, you know, we're not throwing the baby out with the bath water there. And fortunately, we're able to mitigate that smells with the right chemicals and our own carpet cleaning van. It's rare that we have that issue.

 

Keith Weinhold  27:22  

Well, the other thing is, is that you're a turnkey real estate investing company, and for listeners that don't know what that means is you basically fix and flip properties at scale and sell them to investors. So what you do in that case, then, is you're using those resilient finishes that can stand up to pets better than if maybe a person were just doing this small scale on their own accord. 

 

Terry Kerr  27:45  

That is true. So I can't really speak to what other property management companies experience or other individuals, but I do know that that's what we've done to mitigate the risk, and again, like I said, increase the likelihood of a lease renewal, that's the name of the game, right?

 

Keith Weinhold  28:02  

Saying yes to pets sure does increase your chances. And Terry and Liz, the three of us, have all been active real estate investors ourselves for quite a long time. And when we became real estate investors, new build properties, especially in the turnkey space, really weren't much of a thing, but today they are. There are build to rent communities and more. And you yourself, there have been more involved in new builds, although renovated properties is sort of your bread and butter business, but now that you've done both for a while, what are your thoughts with how you advise investors? Is the premium on new construction worth it? Are you just paying really upfront for the maintenance that you'd have on an existing property? So what are your thoughts with new versus renovated property?

 

Liz Nowlin  28:46  

I love that. So you know, if anybody goes to our website right now and looks at the available properties, you'll see some really gorgeous houses mixed in with our already pretty houses with a new construction label across the front of that exterior photo, and you're going to see beautifully updated kitchens. Our renovated kitchens are also super nice. But I get that question, you are going to pay a little bit more for a new build than a renovated property? And you know, Terry and I talked about it, there's a really cool, detailed 15 year pro forma that you can look at with every property. And we did turn up the appreciation for a new construction house. And of course, nobody has a crystal ball, but I really think that will hold true for our properties only. We actually didn't change the maintenance metrics solely because our renovated houses have all new roof, all new furnace, all new air condenser, all new water heater, and they're just as new on the renovated properties as the new construction for our renovations. We're replacing all the any galvanized plumbing, you know. We're doing so much new I think maybe we could change it by a half of a percent or something, you know, but we actually didn't change it because. Because of the depth of the renovation on our properties. Now I am planning to have my next purchase from mid south homebuyers be a new construction home. There's the premium on the front end for me, my thought, and again, this gets into individual investor strategies, but my son is three years old. I plan to leave my entire portfolio to him, and my simple thought about it is that, you know, I have wonderful performing properties, the oldest of which was built in 1927 actually, and a lot of my renovated. It's a gorgeous one, by the way, a beautiful neighborhood, and it's been a great property for me. A lot of my inventory was built in the 60s and 70s. But when I think about Rhett, my son, baby, selling a house in 30 years. I have a feeling that 2024, build is going to do him very well. What kind of buy and hold investor Are you? Are you a 15 year or you will leave them to your kids? That's an angle to think about for sure. 

 

Keith Weinhold  30:55  

Well, actually, that's a great next thing to talk about the investor life cycle in the life cycle of a property that's in your portfolio. Talk to us more about when the right time is to sell an investment property. I mean, should we just buy and hold forever and leave it to our children, or is there an ideal exit time? So from your perspective, why don't you talk to us some more about that timing? 

 

Terry Kerr  31:18  

And again, that's just going to be case by case, we've got folks that'll sell a house to put their kids through college. We have had folks to sell their houses when they need to move their parents into assisted living, folks that'll sell their houses when they're looking at retiring. It's typically, life happens and you've got that equity there, and when the time is right to tap it, it's nice to know it's there 

 

Liz Nowlin  31:44  

lot of different ways to look at it. I've actually toured with selling my 1927 house in the next year or two, before that magic 100 year mark. Yes, for people, you know, and is that gonna do things? But really it's been a great little performer for me. I talk to investors so frequently, and I've heard more than one seasoned investor tell me they wish they'd never sold a single house they ever sold. Just wish, they wish they could hit a button and own everything they'd ever owned. And I'm a die hard buying holder, but I don't think there's a magic time in the sense of, you know, a question I get, maybe some from sometimes a newer investor is, when will my house need another renovation like the one you just did? And the answer is never right. We're going to cosmetically bring it back up between every renter every time. And so you're really just left working with the individual lifespans of those big components, right? And those are relatively staggered out, with maybe a water heater at the shortest, at a roof at the longest. And I think for the most part, this might vary per market. And Terry, I'd like to know your thoughts, but I think genuinely, you'll probably get a higher price by spending the money to replace versus selling for less having not replaced that item. You know. Say, trying to say, Okay, I'm going to sell in my roof is 29 years old, is probably better just replace it.

 

Terry Kerr  33:04  

 Yep, I agree. Because you know, if I'm a buyer and I'm maybe not a flipper, but a buyer, and I'd rather buy a house and spend 100,000 bucks on a house that has a new roof, than buy a house for $94,000 with an old roof. Because I know that old roof, if it leaks, it can cause a lot more damage than just the cost of replacing the roof. So I agree. 

 

And from an ROI perspective, if I'm a financed investor, which about 80% of our investors are, I'm financing that new roof when I buy it with a mortgage, and I'm a great point pay out of pocket the next year. So that's a rub. And then very specific, of course, to our clientele. Terry, how much does it cost us to put a new roof on 1000 square foot house? 4500 bucks. That's we're putting on 700 new roofs a year. The roofers are paid by us by the hour. We are buying the shingles in bulk. And on top of that, we don't mark up maintenance and materials for our investors. So for that one story, 1000 square foot house, that's what my investor cost for us to put a new roof on for them is going to be but a potential buyer is going to look at that home and think it's a $7,000 roof that was great

 

Keith Weinhold  34:17  

to learn about how you renovate properties for investors between tenancies there, so that properties don't get excessively dated. And we've been talking about a lot of the physical things that go into a property with that investor deciding what their exit strategy is going to be. Another thing that informs me are the numbers. When I get to about 40% equity on a property, I know my leverage ratio has now been cut down to two and a half to one, and that's when I look to do something maybe a 1031, tax deferred exchange. Or alternately, if it's a property that I really like, do the cash out refinance, get a tax free windfall with the cash out refinance, and get to hold on to the property at the same time. So of course, that's another way to approach it From the number side, rather than so much the physical side. But there sure is a lot to consider there. And you brought up heirs as well. This has been a great chat about the operations of a property, and just how you advise investors in there. Is there maybe any other question that comes up from investors a lot of times with how they should approach a property and the pros and cons within

 

Liz Nowlin  35:22  

we've seen a lot of great growth, but when we're newer into a neighborhood that we've just kind of started putting our foot in as we stay we meaning mid south home buyers renovating and escalating those properties. That's where we've seen some of the biggest rent jumps and some of the biggest depreciation jumps, but it was kind of one of the lesser, prettier neighborhoods when we first offered that home to that investor, just kind of wrapping your head around all the different nuances to account for

 

Terry Kerr  35:49  

yep, buying the path of progress. And fortunately, we've been able to create some of that progress in the neighborhoods that we've worked in throughout the years. 

 

Keith Weinhold  35:56  

If you're not sure where the path of progress is, and you buy on the line. A lot of times, you are the one that is creating that path of progress, and you've got enough bandwidth and volume in there to have actually done that on a number of occasions. How about something actionable? So many of our listeners have become investors there with mid south homebuyers. I imagine it is over 100 by now. So tell us about what you're doing, where you're active, between Memphis and Little Rock, renovated, new build. Really, where's the opportunity for an investor today?

 

Liz Nowlin  36:31  

I'm pretty proud of us. I'll admit we just closed out 2024 having sold 680 houses. Wow. To investors, many of your listeners, and we're very careful. We've always done a little bit more every year. We don't buy everything we could buy. I always say my acquisitions team is not out there thinking about me and my wait list. One of my favorite sayings of Terry's is, you know, pigs get fat, Hogs get slaughtered. And I love the slow, careful way that we do things, but it was still pretty cool to do 680 we're still about, I'd say 75% Memphis, Tennessee, 25% Little Rock.

 

Terry Kerr  37:09  

Yes, that's about, right? I would say also probably about maybe 15% new construction on 85% rehabs, maybe 20% new construction now, yeah

 

Liz Nowlin  37:20  

And our sweet spot is still, well, still, it's that 100,000 to 200,000 that that window has slowly moved up through the years, very much to the benefit of investors as their investment seasons with time. I think we were 46,000 to 86,000 when I started in 2009 so been awesome to see the growth Memphis and Little Rock has had and so yeah, we're still kind of cash flow first appreciation is the icing on the cupcake. There are cupcakes have had more icing than we ever anticipated. If you go to midsouthhomebuyers.com and click on those available properties, they are under contract to investors at the top of the wait list, but they are identical to the houses I will have for anyone that is listening. We're so formulaic, 365 days a year, the cheapest house I may ever have is on that website. The same for the most expensive. We have just kind of figured out what works, and we hit it hard. And you can see the running theme with the kitchens and everything else.

 

Keith Weinhold  38:22  

Well, congratulations on the total volume that you did last year. That's almost two homes a day, including weekends and holidays and everything else. That's really terrific. Yes, I, for the listeners here, have often, over the years, made these examples using a 100k property, but inflation and appreciation has also made it such that I can't do that anymore, maybe, just maybe in Memphis and Little Rock, I still can for a decent rehabbed property in a pride of ownership neighborhood for as little as 100k and that's one reason why so many investors have made mid south home buyers the place that they go for their First ever Income Property across state lines. They really know how to serve that audience, and you've been doing that for our audience for more than a decade now, and you continue to have this really robust interaction with investors. Liz, you do a lot of phone calls with people. You're really proud about what you do there. So proud that you offer field trips,

 

Speaker 2  39:19  

please. I hope folks come so many folks never do so. If for anyone that prefers to do it from your living room, you are in the 95% norm if you never come to town. But man, it pushes folks confidence through the roof. So many of my investors are from high cost of living areas where you cannot get a parking spot in a war zone for the price that we are selling fully renovated houses, we have a deposit taken for a renter from every house I ever offer that really is cash flow from day one, and folks will really see the neighborhoods and that. I can't stress that enough. In fact, one thing that happens so if folks come up, you can sign up for the tours right on the website. It's on the far right, says, come visit us. This, you'll see a drop down with all the dates we do, monthly tours in Memphis and quarterly tours in Little Rock the day before. So you can come out and hit both. You kind of do a Thursday, Friday tour. You'll tour facilities. You'll see the warehouse and all that kind of stuff that I'll find. You know, our vans, we pull it, throw everybody in vans. We're listening to Memphis music and talking the whole tour, and people will want to pour out of that van right into the house. And I actually back everybody back out. I back them back into the front yard. I want to talk to you there and say, look left, look right. This is $120,000 neighborhood. Y'all. I can send you photos of the inside of the house all day, and you're going to get the same great house whether you buy from your living room. But I love it when people get to see that. I'll go ahead and say we do give gift cards to the best barbecue in town at the end of the tour, in addition to a $500 closing cost credit, just as a thank you for coming out and yeah, I love the tours.

 

Keith Weinhold  40:53  

I really appreciate the two of you. Here we are, the three of us, more than a decade after we started talking about the properties and what you offer investors here, and it's just rare to have continuity like that. You can learn more at midsouthhomebuyers.com Terry and Liz, it's been valuable as always.

 

Terry Kerr  41:13  

Thanks so much, Keith. Always enjoy it

 

Keith Weinhold  41:15  

when we talked about pets, did Liz say something about skinning the cat? That would have to be one of the worst pet policies that I have ever heard of. And yeah, I think that long term, you know, the three bed, two bath style that has been so popular in rentals. But today, there are fewer occupants per household than there was 10 years ago and 20 years ago. Okay, that has long been a national trend. So in a lot of instances, two bedrooms can be better than three and one bathroom can be better than two, especially in that case of a sole occupant. And do you know where your best feedback is gonna come from? From what would most improve your unit's appeal to the market? It is not an online resource at all. It is from a showing where your tenant prospect did not want your unit. They know they are in the market. In fact, they are more aware and in tune with the market than you are, because they might have looked at, say, five units in just the last two days, and they might have done that in person. So they will tell you why they did not want the unit, whether the rents too high, or they don't like the parking situation, or your place needs to be closer to the train station, or your only bathroom is upstairs, something that reduced appeal for some of my own properties in the past. But yeah, this, I'll call it an exit interview of your prospective tenant. I mean, that is valuable, or you can have your manager do it well, the one place that really knows what tenants and investors want is with Terry and Liz there. That's why they have been in business since 2002 with 1000s of investors like you. And it's also why when there is an investor wait list for their properties, and you get to the top of the wait list and close on your property, so many investors just get right back in line on the bottom of their list and work the way up again for their next property. They get lots of repeat business. You can do this too. Get started at midsouthhomebuyers.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 3  43:49  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively,

 

Keith Weinhold  44:17  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get rich, education.com

 

 

 

Professional real estate investor, author and host of “The Real Estate Guys” Radio Show, Robert Helms joins us to discuss the nuances of mid-term, short-term rentals, and hotel real estate investing. 

They highlight the impact of interest rates on single-family home affordability and the role of institutional investors. 

Mid-term rentals cater to travelers like traveling nurses and digital nomads, offering higher monthly rents. Short-term rentals face challenges due to oversupply, but can be profitable with strategic planning. Hotels offer consistent experiences, with key metrics like occupancy and ADR. 

Resources:

Join Keith and other faculty experts at the Investor Summit at Sea, a unique networking and learning event for real estate investors. Let the event organizers know if you want to have dinner with Keith during the event.

Show Notes:

GetRichEducation.com/539

GRE Free Investment Coaching:GREmarketplace.com/Coach

For access to properties or free help with a

GRE Investment Coach, start here:

GREmarketplace.com

Get mortgage loans for investment property:

RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE 

or e-mail: [email protected]

Invest with Freedom Family Investments. 

You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866

Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” 

For advertising inquiries, visit:

GetRichEducation.com/ad

Best Financial Education:

GetRichEducation.com

Get our wealth-building newsletter free—

text ‘GRE’ to 66866

Our YouTube Channel:

www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation

Follow us on Instagram:

@getricheducation

Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

welcome to GRE I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, surprising facts about the institutional ownership share of the rental market. Then learn from a great guest tonight about how the midterm and short term rental models work and hotel real estate investing. Then you are invited to join us both on the most special real estate event that I've ever been a part of, and I'm going to return to it today on get rich education.

 

Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being the flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com

 

Corey Coates  1:17  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:33  

Welcome to GRE from London, UK to London, Ontario and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith weinholden, you are inside this week's episode of Get rich education, where we aren't day trading, we are decade trading with gradual patient wealth accumulation through income properties, yet with a path that lets you live the good life of options and freedom when you're still young enough to enjoy it. Now, the shorter the period of time that your guest or your tenant stays at your place, the more that the word hospitality gets involved. Hospitality, that word has little to do with hospitals. It almost means the opposite. Hospitality means that you're now giving a warm reception to or entertaining guests or tenants. Well, that's something that you rarely do at a long term rental, but you do if you're a hotel real estate investor for sure, or maybe even a little in a short term rental, then you're in hospitality like valet parking, having a restaurant, a pool with a swim up bar, a gym, a concierge desk, or even having a lobby with travel desks of various tour companies. Right there. That's hospitality, and today as we discuss mid term rentals, then short term rentals, then hotel real estate investing, think about how the level of hospitality that you give increases as the duration of a guest or tenant stay decreases. Hospitality is one reason that long term rental rates for durations of, say, a year or more, well, they had the lowest daily rates and the least hospitality. And hotels with, say, a two night stay, have the highest daily rates and the most hospitality. 

 

This week's show is presented by ridge lending group and freedom family investments. I mean Ridge is where I get all of my investment property loans, and where I do all of my refinancings. And perhaps you should, too, because they specialize in working with investor borrowers there, so they know just what you need and what you don't Ridge lending group.com, and then freedom family investments, that's where you can make a private money loan and get a higher yield than you can with a high yield savings account. That's where I invest a share of my own liquid funds for a passive 8% return, 10% return. And now this is new. They've got offerings at 12% or more. You can learn more by texting family to 66866, next, we discuss mid term rentals, short term rentals and hotel real estate investing.

 

This week, I'd like to welcome in a good long time real estate friend. He's been on the show here with you and I before. Besides being a deeply experienced real estate investor, he also hosts the terrific real estate guys radio show, which was a substantial influence on the launch of GRE more than 10 years ago. I mean, how many times have I suggested to you over the years that you give his show a listen? He also speaks with some of the best pipes in the industry. Hey, it's great to have back on the show this week, the incomparable Robert Helms.

 

Robert Helms  5:07  

Hey, Keith, so good to see you. Thanks for having me back.

 

Keith Weinhold  5:11  

Let me share with you. Robert is on a very short exclusive list of people that I credit for being where I am today, from how to host a professional show to being a Go Giver and Robert before we discuss mid and short term rentals in the long term rental world generally, just what's important to know in today's residential real estate market, you can take that anywhere you like.

 

Robert Helms  5:38  

Well, I think the big picture has been all about the loans and the interest rates, right? We saw rates go up, not only a lot, but quickly, and then kind of come back down a bit. Now they're headed back up, and that just has a big effect on single family homes, primarily to folks who are living in the homes, because they'll make that decision based on the affordability of their mortgage payment and the rest of the costs investors Well, you know, we think a little differently. We're not limited by a specific interest rate will pay? If I can make 9% would I pay 6% sure, if I can make 9% would I pay 7% well, I might, and so on. So I think that that's something to watch this year. For sure. There's lots of reasons to expect that we're not going to see interest rates get back down into the twos and threes and fours like we wish they would stay. Probably shouldn't happen in the first place, but you and I took advantage of it, and lots of your listeners did as well. But I think that's kind of a big picture thing. And then the other part of it is, you know, the inventory. So when people have this locked in effect, which really doesn't have anything to do with their needs or wants, they have a new job or they have another child and they want to move to a couple of notches up in a neighborhood, they don't want to get rid of their 3.12% loan and have to buy another property with 7% so we see less people moving, therefore less inventory, total inventory now somewhere just around 700,000 or below, and that's lower than it's been for the average of the last 10 years. For sure, I think that has an effect, less people are moving because of the interest rates. But at the same time, you know, there are houses that trade every single day. People do have to move. They have life situations and so forth. And then real estate investors, of course, we just look for opportunity. If we can make a spread and we can be in a property long term where the tenant pays down our mortgage and not us, well, then we're interested at almost any interest rate.

 

Keith Weinhold  7:44  

 Yes, that interest rate lock in effect will persist another year. That continues to get diluted over time. Of course, though you and I both know that mortgage rates are still below their historic rate, but because of the recency bias, no one's really acting that way. By the way, the first ever rental property I bought had a six in three eights percent mortgage rate 20 years ago, and people were raving about what an incredibly low rate that was back then. But this constrains supply. And another thing that constrains available supply in today's market is more institutional players own rental property today we're talking about outfits like invitation homes and even the California State Teachers Retirement System. But one thing a lot of people don't seem to realize is that institutions like this own less than 1% of single family homes in the United States, and that's all institutions combined. And now if you just isolate that to single family rental properties, they still only own two to 3% so where we have this period of low supply and low affordability, you know, Robert, I think institutions, in a lot of these media headlines, they tend to get scapegoated or being a boogeyman. Oh, all these big players are buying up the homes, and that's why you can't buy one. But really, that's pretty overblown. So can you talk to us more about what the institutional entry into the real estate investing space has been like, which really picked up steam after the GFC about 15 years ago? 

 

Robert Helms  9:16  

Yeah, it sure did. I think that folks who were managing big sums of money, and the institutional money comes from all kinds of places, real estate, Investment Trusts, insurance, pensions, funds, and then just big old companies that decide to raise money to go do something, and that money saw opportunity said, hey, you know what? This is a short term anomaly, all these prices that went down after 2008 and 2009 and when a lot of mom and pop investors were very hesitant to touch the third rail of buying more property after what they had just been through, these institutions are like that. Institutional money is not very emotional, right? It's just looking at the numbers at the same time where the nuances of institutional funds is that they also didn't have a ton of real estate experience, and so it was quite common for a couple of years that an institution would come in, and they would typically work through local brokers, and those brokers would know the market a bit. But if you could generalize, you would say that a lot of institutions overpaid. But here's the thing, when you overpay in the moment, you don't really notice that in the long term real estate investment that these guys did, it's interesting. I've been to a couple of conferences I go to almost every year that 10 years ago was mom and pop investors. And today it's a lot of suits, not too many ties. They don't send. Tend to wear ties, but a lot of suits, a lot of folks working for various levels of these funds, and they're looking at real estate as an asset class. Now I'm going to argue their real estate's not an asset class like any other, because every share of stock, every ounce of gold, every barrel of oil that anybody buys, is discretionary. You never have to invest in the stock market, in the bond market and cryptocurrency, but you cannot sit out the real estate market. From an economic perspective, I don't have to own real estate, but I'm going to have to interact financially. And so it really doesn't operate like other quote, unquote, asset classes, but I think the big folks did figure out is that there is stability in real estate. There's not the efficiency they would like, and that's a good thing for us. We like inefficiencies in the real estate market, but more and more we are seeing funds being put together, even today, to acquire property. But to your point, and it's an excellent one, you see the headlines and you see the name calling of these big, faceless, nameless corporations. They're buying up all the inventory. They're not it is a drop in the bucket compared to what mom and pops own and will continue to own

 

Keith Weinhold  11:53  

 yes, and of course, I'm talking nationally. When I bring up those one two and 3% institutional share numbers, it's going to be lower in some areas, it tends to be a higher proportion of buying that the institutions do in Texas and also in a lot of southeastern markets, like Atlanta, Jacksonville, Charlotte and Tampa. Robert you have a good bit of knowledge and some involvement in the mid term rental market. We're talking about rentals of one to six months in duration. Here, can you talk to us about trends in the midterm rental market?

 

Robert Helms  12:25  

 Yeah, it's a fascinating area. You know, back in the day, these would be referred to as corporate rentals, so a corporation might lease an apartment and furnish it, and then they would have different people stay there over the years, so the corporation would be responsible for the lease. I had some tenants like this many, many years ago, and it wouldn't be up to me. It'd be up to them who had the keys at the time. And a tenant might stay six or seven months. A tenant might make four or five weeks their stay. And so the idea was they needed a place for these contractors who would come in and work for a period of time to stay. But hotels were a lot more expensive. Well today you see even the folks who got involved in short term rentals making a decision to invest in people like traveling nurses who come and stay for four to six weeks, or these clients who will come in and work for two months in this location, two months in this location, two months in another location. And so they will simply stay in a short term rental type of property for a longer term. And you know, the most expensive things when it comes to real estate or turnover in vacancy. So if we can get the tenant to stay longer and pay a bit of a premium, these are often furnished units, and they don't have to worry about much. And we've had a few opportunities where what started out as a three week rental turned into a six month rental, because sometimes when they bring these folks on these companies, don't know exactly how long they're going to stay, and it's been a great kind of marketplace. There's a few folks that specialize in it. But my experience is that a lot of the people that have gravitated towards midterm rentals used to be in the short term rental business, thinking they'd rent for one or two nights, and lo and behold, they get a client that would stay for a month, and they'd say, Hey, this is pretty cool.

 

Keith Weinhold  14:13  

Some conversion rate there from short term rentals to these midterm rentals here, as Robert touched on, you do tend to get more monthly rent for a midterm rental than you do a conventional long term rental. You're going to have some experience for furnishing there. But Robert, you bring up a great point. You mentioned traveling nurses. And of course, here as real estate investors, we're often interested in who we're serving and what that demographic looks like. I also think of midterm rental clients or tenants as students in digital nomads, and oftentimes it's a person relocating where they just want to check out a place for a few months before they consider setting down roots in an area with a long term rental or buying their own place. So can you talk? More about the demographic that we're serving there, because oftentimes you want to follow their trends.

 

Robert Helms  15:04  

Yeah, very much. So, you know, today, I think there's a lot of folks that can work from a variety of locations. They do need some things, they need quiet they need a good internet connection, but they will come and go for weeks at a time. And I also think that you see more and more employers looking to contract labor. They have a job to get done. They're not sure they want to bring on a full time employee with all the cost of benefits and onboarding and all that. So they find somebody in the niche that comes in for six or eight or 12 weeks at a time, and they're the perfect candidate for short term rental. But we also see folks that are between gigs. So I might have a six week gig, and three weeks later I have another six week gig, and the three weeks in the middle, I want to go somewhere that's kind of fun to hang out. And so you do see those kind of rentals as well.

 

Keith Weinhold  15:55  

Are most long term property management companies open to managing midterm rentals?

 

Robert Helms  16:02  

Yeah, good question. There are certainly those that are, but I think we're starting to see a specialty on the aggregator side, folks that are reaching out specifically to the kinds of people who are candidates for midterm rentals from the tenant side and looking to accumulate inventory. So that's been kind of a neat thing to watch. So the focus of most property managers, they're hired by the owner of the property. Well, these groups are really their their salary gets paid for by the tenant, and they're able to negotiate on the behalf of some of these groups, you know, a better rate, better terms. They may negotiate some flexibility and the time for these folks that don't know exactly how long they're going to stay, it's an interesting new area of management, for sure.

 

Keith Weinhold  16:52  

Now, of course, we're concerned about a high occupancy rate in midterm rentals, just like we are any type of rental. What does one look for when it comes to advertising platforms. And this could be, you know, going beyond just a well known website. It might be, hey, if you have inroads with the local hospital system, oh, well, can you then funnel some of the traveling nurses, for example, into your midterm rental?

 

Robert Helms  17:15  

Yeah, most definitely, it is a specialty niche, for sure, if you're after a robust rental solution. You know, many people in midterm rentals, like in short term rentals, the vast majority of short term rental owners are not making a killing. They are. They're liquidating some cost of what they consider their second home. So the average short term rental landlord has just one property, and that's a property they bought, probably not as a rental. They brought it as a second home, and they're discovering that when they're not there, they can lease it out, and that pays for some of the costs. But there are obviously a few folks who have cracked the code and figured out which markets and where the best opportunity is, and what size units it takes to maintain a really healthy occupancy, and it's the same for this midterm rental. It's a different kind of tenant. It's mostly not families, so it's not larger units with lots of bedrooms. It's also mostly not your higher end rentals with views of the water or up near ski resorts, it's in the bigger towns where there is employment, and that employment triggers most of the midterm rental business.

 

Keith Weinhold  18:29  

You, as an investor owner, maybe your cash flow negative on your midterm rental or short term rental, however, you might be using it for a few weeks or months yourself and getting back more of the benefit that way you're listening to get rich education. We're talking with the host of the real estate guys radio show, Robert Helms, more when we come back, we discuss short term rentals, including, is there an air be in bust? I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, 

 

hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally, start now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com That's ridgelendinggroup.com.

 

Oh geez, the initial average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings, so your bank is getting rich off of you. You've got to earn way more, or else you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work. With minimum risk, your cash generates up to a 10% return and compounds year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% in your bank account, the minimum investment is. 25k you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back. Their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And you know how I'd know, because I'm an investor in this myself, earn 10% like me and GRE listeners are text family to 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text family to 66866

 

Kristen Tate  20:39  

this is author, Kristen Tate, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  20:54  

Welcome back to get rich education. We're talking about midterm short term rentals and hotels and hospitality with a long time friend of the show here, Robert Helms and Robert a few years ago, there seemed to be this word airbn bust that was beginning to be associated with Airbnbs. A lot of the difficulty in that market. So tell us, what was that all about, and where are we now with industry trends in the short term rental market?

 

Speaker 1  21:21  

 Yeah, great question, Keith. What I think happened is the allure of a short term rental, having a beautiful property that people would pay a premium on a nightly rate, sounded wonderful, and it was, and it worked for a lot of folks. But then what happened is, what happens people got the word, they got excited about it, and a lot of people started holding webinars, teaching classes, doing boot camps, and before you knew it, there was way more supply than there was demand. See, the hospitality industry is amazing. The hospitality industry employs 9% of all people in the world and accounts for nearly 9% of the GDP of our planet. Travel is a gigantic industry, and it's led by smart, big, storied institutions. So for folks to come and figure I'll just compete with them with my little apartment didn't necessarily turn out so well. So there was an airbn bust, and it is still lingering today. If you want to make a profit in short term rentals, you absolutely can, but you need to be super strategic. You need to think long and hard about where and what and why and how, because it's very specific. There are certain markets that short term rentals do very, very well, and there's a lot of markets, the majority of markets, where they don't. So as long as you're willing to study and take a look and be realistic and go kick the dirt a little bit, you certainly can get the upper hand. And the reason it's exciting is the average person who owns a short term rental is not professional in any way. They probably don't have too many other rental properties. It's not a big part of what they're paying attention to in their life. And they're simply trying to liquidate some of the costs of ownership. You know, I might rental here or rental there. And the way you can tell Home Away, VRBO, Airbnb, most of the hosts, the owners, make their calendars public, and so it's easy to tell how busy they are. It's amazing to me. I'll look at a marketplace and look at a property and see that month after month after month they're at a six to 8% occupancy, which I wouldn't be excited about myself, but for someone who's got a second home and they don't mind having people stay there for a few nights, they'll pay a premium for that. They legitimately can carve down a lot of their expenses just by renting six or eight or 10% of the time. 

 

Keith Weinhold  23:58  

Of course, the conventional guidance is before you buy a short term rental, you're really helping yourself out. If you have to fall back on turning that into a long term rental, it would cash flow. But of course, now you're really narrowing your criteria in what is going to work there. And Robert, when we talk about that demographic that we're serving, we touched on that in the midterm rentals. Who are we serving in short term rentals? I think conventionally, we think about vacationers and business travelers

 

Robert Helms  24:24  

it's both of those things. I think that originally, people were certainly inspired by the vacation traveler who wanted to have a little more privacy, maybe their own kitchen, maybe a little more space for the dollar. And we still see that for a family, especially a family with small kids, staying at a hotel, ordering room service, eating in the restaurant, all that adds up. And if instead you can go to the grocery store and make breakfast at home, right, you can save the costs. And so there is definitely that clientele, but you also have people in short term rental that are visiting family. They're not really on vacation. In there, just going to an area for a short period of time. We see people that criss cross the country staying in short term rentals, two nights here, three nights there. And so it does have kind of a wide variety. A lot of the markets are very seasonal. Though. There are markets like Branson, Missouri that does really good at some parts of the year and not as well as other parts of the year. Then, of course, there's year round markets. So back to if I'm thinking about it with an investor's hat on, I want to be a little more specific, in particular about what and where I buy. But if I have single family house as my second home, maybe it's in a ski area, maybe it's in a beach area, and it's fairly expensive to maintain. Well, then considering renting it out on a short term basis might help the overall cost of maintaining that property. 

 

Keith Weinhold  25:52  

You know, my own personal experiences really started to get bad in short term rentals, when I would go stay in a place. And I think we've all seen those memes out there about, my gosh, I had to wash all the dishes and walk the owner's dog and still play some exorbitant cleaning fee. I think we've all kind of grappled with that at some point, but STRS are still a really viable investment for the majority of the operators. But yeah, Robert, most of my experiences in short term rentals recently, including showing up at a place where they had not done the turn. The cleaning person did not stop by. And, yeah, okay, they came over there properly. But it's like, you cannot unsee the mess that was left there before you were there. So I had a series of experiences lately that have actually steered me into staying in hotels more often. And hotels really fit my lifestyle pretty well. I like to work out at a gym. I like to have a gym on site. It's convenient to have a restaurant on site and so on. And you've been in the hospitality and hotel space serving that for a while. Why don't you talk to us about industry trends in hotels. 

 

Robert Helms  27:03  

Yeah. So travelers, to a great degree, love consistency. They want to be able to rely on cleanliness, on amenities, the very things you mentioned for sure. And so hospitality has a wide range, right? There's the lower end airport hotel where nobody stays more than a night, and it doesn't have a lot of amenities, and then there's the beautiful resort properties and everything in between. But what the hotel industry has done a good job of is providing a consistent experience, and that's what people crave more than anything else. You know, we would call a short term rental more of a unique or boutique or co chair kind of experience, and you don't know what you're going to get. You don't have that consistency. Some folks don't mind that, but for the majority, especially of business travelers, they want to know what they're getting. I can remember years ago, my sister wanted to take us on a family vacation to Maui. It sounded like a good idea. And then she was the one tasked with finding us a place, and decided we would stay at the Ritz Carlton and I looked at the Ritz Carlton website and said, Ah, you know, this is not exactly where I would probably stay in a she's a chiropractor. She says, in order for me to take a week off work, I'm losing $10,000 of the business. I'm not staying in some cheap hotel. I want to stay in a luxury hotel. And we did it, and it was fabulous, and I would stay again. So the point is, if you want to be able to work out, if you want to be able to have 24 hour room service, if you want grab and go that you don't have to walk outside in the cold or the heat, then hotels make a lot of sense, and it's not an either or. They're just both elements in hospitality. I would consider a short term rental property, a hospitality property, and I would consider a 1200 room, four and a half star hotel hospitality property as well.

 

Keith Weinhold  28:58  

Sure. Of course, hotels aren't monolithic. There are so many different types. You might have a boutique hotel with a few dozen rooms to a large scale, something like you've been involved in. You've been in a large scale, ground up development for a hotel. And I don't know if you had a hope when you built your large hotel that a big chain like a Hilton or Marriott would buy it from you, or would brand it along with you. But that branding and that consistency of experience can be really important. That's something we especially associate with those larger hotels. So we have some of these things in mind. I mean, where does a new prospective hotel investor begin?

 

Robert Helms  29:40  

Yeah, it's pretty difficult to get started, because the properties are big and expensive and risky upfront. So there's a terminology we use the hotel business, which is stabilization. And stabilization is when a hotel gets to the point where it's doing about the occupancy and rate that you would expect. Respect it too long term, and that might be anywhere from two to four years. Well, in the first year, boy, there's hardly anybody there. We have a 300 plus room hotel, and the first night we were open, we had two guests and 160 employees. So you don't have to be a rocket surgeon to figure out that that math doesn't work very well. Nor did it for the first month or the first year. Today, I'm happy to say it works a lot better, but you have to have patience. Now, there's a couple of ways you can get involved. Certainly, a smaller a boutique hotel. I stayed in a hotel a couple months ago that only had eight rooms. It was marvelous. And I thought, boy, you know, probably an individual owns this, but most of the hotel properties are owned by groups or syndications, and so that's another way to get exposure to hospitality. There's some things to love about hospitality, and to me, one of the same things I love about single families is you can find professional management, like folks that really know what they're doing, and create that guest experience that was perfectly possible for someone to buy a single family home as a rental. Maybe it's in their own town, and they want to manage it themselves. And you know, maybe at first that's a good idea, so you can figure out the game you've chosen, but ultimately, you want to hand that off to a professional, in my opinion. And in hospitality, like in multifamily, you have to, you have to have somebody come in with chops to be able to take care of it. And then there's the nuance of franchise which there are hotels that are just independently owned and operated. And then there's franchise hotels. And just like buying a franchise business, you pay a little more, but you get a lot. You get all the systems and the service and the training and the marks, and many cases, you get a big, dynamic engine that brings leads and fills your heads in your beds, which is what the metric we're interested in, in hospitality. And so when we started with thinking about it might make sense, the market we were in had no branded hotels, and we thought, Well, should we be the first? And after doing a bunch of research, I came to the conclusion that, well, it's going to cost something, and there's going to be a benefit, but I don't see it the benefit outweighing the cost. And we decided not to and then, lo and behold, through a strange set of circumstances, today, we are a branded hotel, and I'm thrilled about it. In hindsight, it was the right thing to do, but do understand that most real estate investors that I know are not going to qualify. It's pretty difficult to get a franchisee agreement with one of these hotel brands. You have to have some wherewithal, some experience. They're going to look at your assets and your balance sheet. They're going to look at more than you can imagine to make sure that you're worth betting on, that they'll put their story name on the outside of your hotel. But it does bring up another point in hospitality, which is there's just multiple streams of income in hospitality. I saw a study last year that showed that in the upper resort markets, the fancier hotels and markets you might go to that the average person whatever they spend on their nightly rate in the hotel, they spend 80 to 85% of that per day on all the other things associated with their stay. Now, some of those are going to be off campus, but the more that you can provide to the guests you've already brought onto the property, the more profitable it can be,

 

Keith Weinhold  33:25  

from resort fees to valets and more. Yes, there certainly is plenty to add on there. Maybe the last thing in hotel investing is, if someone wants to get started, what should they even be looking at, as far as say, understanding some of the metrics, like rev Park. Can you give us a quick walk around that?

 

Robert Helms  33:45  

 Yeah, so  if you're used to investing in apartment buildings or single family houses, you've probably seen the basic income formula. You know how to calculate for loss to lease and maybe vacancy and those things. Well, there's just a few more intricacies when it comes to hospitality, but it's not that difficult if you just think that you're renting every night instead of every month or every year, and instead of having my turnover be one tenant every two years, it's one tenant every four days. There's just a lot more to pay attention to. And so the most important metrics in the hospitality industry are obviously occupancy, how many nights our rooms are occupied? And then ADR, which is average daily rate, and that is the rate for a particular unit type on average over some period of time, typically a year. And if you were to multiply occupancy times average daily rate, that gives you a revenue per available room or RevPAR. RevPAR can be affected, and it's the primary metric that we drive to in the two ways, you can increase occupancy to increase your RevPAR, but in many cases, you don't need to increase occupancy if. The market will allow you to raise your average daily rent. We've just gone through in the last year that our occupancy is down about 2% for the year, and our average daily rate is up more than 16% so the math works that follow me on this with slightly less wear and tear on the units our owners are making more money. So it is a balance. It's not like I want maximum occupancy. Well, not necessarily. Hardest thing to manage for any hotel is a sold out night. Sounds like a good idea, but you have no wiggle room, whereas when you've got even 3% vacancy and something goes wrong in the middle of the night with somebody's unit, you can get them moved somewhere down the hall, not somewhere across town. So I would say there are some really great resources. If someone's interested in hospitality. There's a big company called the hotel valuation systems, HVs, and they have a lot of great tutorial information available if you're really interested. Go to a conference, a hotel conference, and you'll pick up the lingo pretty quick and meet some of the folks that are in the business. It is, historically, one of the highest return properties, but also a lot of high costs, and again, expect some negative cash flow at the beginning.

 

Keith Weinhold  36:18  

Yeah. Well, it was great. And you brought up something that I had not thought about before, about how 100% occupancy could actually introduce problems in the hotel space. And of course, there are a number of other things to consider, surge pricing, high seasons, low seasons, an awful lot that we don't think about when we're renting out single family homes one year at a time. Well, Robert, that's been a great walk around talking about the institutional space, midterm rentals, short term rentals and hotels, and you and I have a great collaboration coming up together. Why don't you tell our audience about it?

 

Robert Helms  36:55  

Oh my gosh. I am so thrilled that you'll be joining us again for our 23rd annual Investor Summit at sea. This event we do once a year, and by its name, you can probably tell that the majority of it happens on a cruise ship. We spend two days in beautiful Miami at a great hotel, then we jump on a luxury cruise ship for seven days. On the days that we're at sea, it's workshops and seminars and panel discussions and round table lunch discussions and all kinds of fun. And on the sea day, on the land days, we go have a good time together. It's extraordinary. You've been with us before, and I'm super excited to have you back with us on faculty, and excited that we're going to get to brainstorm a little bit with a couple other podcasters. So some of the OGS are going to be on this particular summit. 

 

Keith Weinhold  37:43  

Yes, it is June 20 to 29th this year, where we spend the first two days on land in Miami, and then we spend a week cruising to the Bahamas, St Thomas in St Martin. We're doing it on a beautiful ship, the celebrity beyond. So as one of the faculty members, you'll get to see me do a 50 to 60 minute presentation, a couple of lunch, round table discussions. I might be on a panel or two, and also host a table for dinner each night where participants like you rotate around at the tables, and that way you get to chat directly with most or all of the faculty members. That way. Yes, Robert, I was there in 2016 as an attendee. It's great to finally come back as a faculty member. I will be putting the second pepper on the necklace.

 

Robert Helms  38:29  

All right. Well, it's gonna be a ton of fun. And the great thing about it is we have people from all over the world that come and you get in these awesome conversations. You know, you go to a one day or two days seminar, and you get to connect with some people, but boy, and this week, you're going to have a chance to meet all kinds of folks. And the faculty is amazing. Our mutual friend Ken McElroy will be back with us for his 12th year. Peter Schiff's going to be back with us again. We've got the George gammon coming. Brian London, who runs the New Orleans investment conference that you and I usually rub shoulders at, and ton more, just a really great time. And if you're serious about collapsing time frames, you can get more done in nine days on the Investor Summit that you can probably get of two years of just haphazardly going to conferences and watching webinars and listening to podcasts

 

Keith Weinhold  39:18  

you will see what we mean if you attend, about putting a pepper on the necklace and what that is all about. I can tell you from attending in 2016 just one previous appearance there. It is the greatest real estate event that I have ever attended. It's really immersive. It's really fun. Of course, you get off on these ports, and there's a beach component to it as well. It's not a low cost event, but as I like to say, it's not cheap, but neither are you.

 

Robert Helms  39:50  

It is an investment, that's for sure. I think it's important that you approach it that way, right? As investors, we demand a return. On our investment, and you should do that on the summit. Don't just show up and have a party time. That'll be great. It'll be fun. But be strategic about who you want to meet, who you want to hang out with, and who you want to learn from. The faculty is like no other. We'll have at least 15 faculty members. There's a couple more that we're working on, whose names you would know, but we are not ready to announce yet, but it's going to be so much fun. Oftentimes, the best people you meet, you meet at dinner, or you meet at the beach, or you meet out on deck. So we'd love to have you join us and tell you what, if someone is listening to your show, Keith, and they would love to have dinner with you. All they have to do is let us know that when they register say, you know, I want a chance to have meal with Keith, and I think we can make that happen. 

 

Keith Weinhold  40:45  

Oh, that's great. And, you know, Robert, it's rare. It's the type of event where, even though it's been nine years since I was there, you developed such a close kinship with the like minded attendees that, you know, I might see a some of it's a Facebook friend now, you know, Steve or Dave or something. And I'll always remember, oh yeah, I met Steve on real estate guys Investor Summit to see it's almost like a relationship you would have with, like, a long ago high school classmate, to be around each other for nine days and all these places. It just kind of brings this different element to it. You can learn more at Investorsummitatsea.com, and get registered there. You can see my smiling face in the faculty section along with the other faculty members. Remember, it's really about all the other people that you meet. You have any last thoughts about the terrific Investor Summit at Sea Robert?

 

Robert Helms  41:36  

 I would just say that in life, we tend to regret the things that we don't do a lot more than the things that we do. So get on board. You'll have an amazing time. No matter how great we say it is. It's better than that. It's like summer camp for the affluent, summer camp. As a kid, you didn't want to go, you weren't sure, and by the end, you were lifelong buddies. It's like that. It's investing on steroids. The photo ops are amazing, and you'll meet super cool people, plus you'll get the hangout with Keith and I. So I would say join us for the 23rd annual investors Summit.

 

Keith Weinhold  42:14  

There's wisdom out there that says you should say no to more things in life, and in one tranche, that makes sense, and you also need to say yes to more things in life that fits the category. Here with the Great Investor Summit at Sea I really anticipated. It's one of my biggest events of the year. And Robert, it's been great having you back on the show.

 

Robert Helms  42:35  

Thanks so much, Keith, and appreciate your listeners. Listening in today. Don't quit your Daydream 

 

Keith Weinhold  42:42  

Well, said.

 

Next week on the show, we talk about how to streamline the operations at your rental properties. Is it better to own rental property with, say, two bathrooms rather than one, or is that just another faucet that can leak and shower that can leak and toilet that can clog, and the pros and cons of allowing your tenant to have a pet in your rental unit, it's those sort of operational things and more that we help you improve next week right here on The GRE podcast, it's interesting about investing in a hotel to such a large scale that you can court major franchise branding, like with Hilton, Marriott Wyndham or Hyatt, which Robert has successfully done. And I have visited that property of his with him in person, and it's amazing what he's done there. And you know something, I have rarely met an American, or any global resident that is averse to staying at a branded hotel. I mean, that only seems to be an attractant. Now in the US, some people, they used to dislike franchise restaurants. I even remember people saying, Hey, we don't need another chain restaurant in my town. But I've never seen people scorn chain hotels and today, I mean, in the here and now, people seem to want both franchise restaurants and hotels. I mean today, you're more likely to hear something like hey. When is our town getting a Chick fil A? Why don't we have one yet? And of course, there is plenty of opportunities in these shorter term stay spaces without ever attracting a branding deal, major thanks to the terrific Robert helms today for his keen insight on shorter term rental real estate. This event, June's investor summon at sea is such a good time, and Robert really knows how to host it and make sure you have a good time. After doing it for more than 20 years, it is a rich, immersive experience with people, places, learning and. And relationship building. It's the type of experience that you just can't get from an Instagram reel. It does draw attendees worldwide, although most attendees were from the US when I was there that one previous time. When you register, if you want to make sure that you get dinner with me, let them know, and we'll make it happen, because we know that you haven't heard enough of my voice every single week for more than a decade now, right? In my opinion, it is the crown jewel of world real estate investing events start at Investorsummitatsea.com until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker  45:46  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  46:14  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building. Get rich education.com

 

Keith answers listener questions about getting started in real estate investing with limited funds and how to determine the true appreciation of a property against inflation. He also discusses:

The impact of the LA wildfires on housing needs and some landlords raising rents excessively.

Economic and housing challenges facing Canada, including high inflation and unaffordable home prices. And highlights the views of likely future Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Poilievre on addressing these issues.

GRE Free Investment Coaching:GREmarketplace.com/Coach

For access to properties or free help with a

GRE Investment Coach, start here:

GREmarketplace.com

Show Notes:

GetRichEducation.com/538

Get mortgage loans for investment property:

RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE 

or e-mail: [email protected]

Invest with Freedom Family Investments. 

You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866

Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” 

For advertising inquiries, visit:

GetRichEducation.com/ad

Best Financial Education:

GetRichEducation.com

Get our wealth-building newsletter free—

text ‘GRE’ to 66866

Our YouTube Channel:

www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation

Follow us on Instagram:

@getricheducation

Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, I answer three of your listener questions, then learn why LA area landlords got a bad name during this month's awful Southern California wildfires. Finally, why Canadians cannot buy houses anymore, and what lessons you can learn from Canada's real estate mistakes and the abject lunacy there today on get rich education.

 

Unknown Speaker  0:30  

Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being the flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com

 

Unknown Speaker  1:16  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:32  

Welcome to GRE from Gatlinburg, Tennessee to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are inside this week's installment of the program known as get rich education, I'm grateful that you're here, but you're not here for me. You are here for you. So let's talk about you and some of the listener questions that you wrote into the show about and as usual, whenever I have a batch of listener questions, I answer the beginner level questions first and then move on to more advanced questions. The first one comes from Jeanette in Seaford, Delaware. Jeanette asks, I only have a little money to invest in real estate. How do I get started with just a small amount of money. All right, Jeanette, well, first I would talk to a lender. You have to talk to a mortgage specialist or a loan officer to find out what you qualify for. You're basically getting them to punch holes into your financial picture. And then that way, Jeanette, you will know what holes to go, mend, so your loan officer is essentially giving you a free troubleshooting session. Now, our investment coaches here at GRE help you with some of that, but GRE doesn't originate loans, so you want to get with someone like a ridge lending group for help. And now, what are some of the holes that a mortgage lender might poke into your finances? Jeanette, well, getting your credit score up and they'll help you with that strategy. Or you simply need more dollars in savings, in what your mortgage loan underwriter calls reserves, or you might need to establish a two year job history, or you have to say, Pay off your car loan in order to get your debt to income ratio lower, or whatever it is. And since at GRE marketplace, the least expensive income property is probably about $120,000right now, a number that keeps going up with inflation. But what you would need is 23 to 25% of that between your down payment and closing costs, all right? Jeanette, so then about 28 to 30k that is the minimum lump of cash that you'll need to buy a property that is already fixed up and ready for a tenant, and that is a great way to start in real estate investing if you want to maintain your standard of living, okay, that is therefore the lowest entry point that you can do that. But if you're temporarily willing to let your quality of life slide for a couple years and maybe live communally. You can put as little as 3% down on a primary residence and then rent out the other rooms. Okay, that's the house hacking model, but depending on your setup, you know, maybe you're sharing a kitchen with roommates or suitemates, and therefore that temporary loss in quality of life. Maybe you can even Airbnb at a short term rental, in which case you will be buying the furniture. However, now with a 3% down payment on an owner occupied house, hack like that, you're probably going to have to pay a PMI premium, a private mortgage insurance premium of a few $100 per month. But still, this does get you in with very little money, since that's what you're asking about Jeanette. And finally, the third thing I'll bring up here is that you can get a combination of maintaining your standard of living and putting a small down payment on a property by using an FHA loan and three and a half percent down. And you can do that with a single family home, duplex, triplex or four Plex, living in one unit and renting out the others. So yes, you get both this way, but I will not go into the details on the FHA, because I have described that in detail on other episodes since it's how I started out myself. But there are a number of options right there for you to inquire about Jeanette, all starting with an investment centric mortgage lender like Ridgelendinggroup.com.  

 

The next question comes from Jared in Pocatello, Idaho. Jared asks Keith, in the past year, my duplex in Pocatello went up in value 5% from 400k to 420k. How do I know how much of that 5% is true appreciation, and what portion of the 5% is from inflation? Oh, that is such a devastatingly cool question Jared, and that's exactly what I thought when I saw that question come in. Okay, so basically, Jared is asking, say, in this 5% price increase is 3% from inflation and 2% from appreciation, for example, or like, what is the breakout of those two components of the price change? And a lot of people don't understand the difference, and even know enough to ask a question this good. So props to you there. Jared. One thing you cannot do is just look at CPI inflation over the last year for the US, which is 2.9% and then say, Oh, well, then I guess the other 2.1% must be appreciation. Therefore, no, you can't really do that. There's more to it than that, for a lot of reasons. I mean consumer price inflation, like on a pound of ground beef at the supermarket, that is different from asset price inflation, and there are a lot of other reasons too. Appreciation is distinctly different from inflation, because the value of your property increasing 5% that has to do with the attractiveness of your property to the marketplace. Now there are attributes with appreciation, like proximity to high paying jobs, proximity to highways and shopping in desirable schools, which are basically those axiomatic Location, location, location qualities. Now I'm going to assume that you did not make an improvement or a renovation to the property Jared, because obviously that would hike up the value. Now other appreciation attributes that are distinctly different from inflation are things like population growth and wage growth in your area, what can really pump up appreciation is if the remaining availability of developable land starts shrinking and shriveling up in a desirable location. Contrary to popular belief, mortgage rates have little to do with appreciation. We can leave that out of this discussion. Now, how this is different from inflation is that inflation is not about the intrinsic value. Rather, inflation is the price of the home increasing because the currency is worth less. Now I hope that you find that explanation satisfying Jared, but what is dissatisfying is that it's actually hard to pin down a number and say, was this two and a half percent appreciation and two and a half percent inflation, or any other combination? And that's because inflation itself is practically impossible to accurately measure, and a lot of that has to do with an inflationary basket of goods that is just exceedingly difficult to adjust for attributes like quality and utility and substitution So Jerry did is likely that your duplexes 5% value increase is an amalgamation of both appreciation and inflation, that part I can confirm, but the exact breakdown for each is virtually incalculable, super insightful question there Jared.  

 

The third and final of our three listener questions to get the show started today, and then I'll get into landlords in the LA wildfires and Canada versus us real estate. The final question today is from Jeter in Roseville, California. I know where Roseville is. It's just northeast of Sacramento, and I'm not sure if Jeter j, e t, e r is your first name or your last name, like former Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter, but only one name came in here. Jeter asks, Keith, I am a true believer in GRE principles. I'm looking to pounce on some property this year and get leverage and other people's money working for me, instead of only getting my money to work for me in my company's 401 k. Let me just interject here. You really get it. You really get it. Jeter, um, continuing on with your question, with mortgage rates around 7% I'd love to know where you think interest rates are headed next, and what is going to make rates move. Thanks, Jeter. Well, I've got to tell you, Jeter, not only do I avoid predicting future interest rates, but I don't know of anyone in the world that can predict interest rates with high reliability, especially over the medium to long term. James Grant, He's based in New York City. He puts out a publication called Grant's Interest Rate Observer that might just give you a better than 5050, shot of where they're headed next. He's a well regarded source. In fact, I saw James Grant speak in person a couple months ago, but I wouldn't put too much credence in any interest rate predictor out there. Now, just 11 days ago, I sent our newsletter subscribers a graphic of just how bad. I mean, really awful that recent interest rate predictions have been. I've never seen a chart like this. This chart looked like a centipede. Okay, the Bold Line was the actual federal funds rate that was like the centipedes body and all the hundreds of legs coming off this line were predictions that others had made, all deviating from the true line, the centipede body, which is what the rate really was. I mean, prominent experts rate predictions have a track record that's more abysmal than everyone saying we'd surely have a man on Mars, by now, terrible. Jeter. When you look at interest rate predictions, you're looking at a waste of your time. They're about as reliable as a weather app in a tornado a year ago, the collective brain trusts of all the economic wizards believed with devotion and alacrity that mortgage rates would be sub six now, instead, they are still about seven, which might correspond to a three or three and a half percent federal funds rate. They all thought the federal funds rate would be near three by now, but it's more like four and a half today. And what's hilarious is that, in more recent years, the Fed even tells us what they plan to do next. They even tell us it's little like having the answers to the test, and yet you still fail the test. You've got the cheat sheet and you still aren't doing any better? How can this possibly be? Well, the reason that I don't make interest rate predictions is because it is a surefire way to look foolish. Jeter, to answer the second part of your question, what moves interest rates around? The answer is, well, it's really broad economic forces and political forces, that is why it's tough, and this includes jobs reports, supply and demand of credit, inflation, a pandemic, a surprise new war in the Middle East, tariffs, GDP reports, surprise election outcomes, a massive change in tax policy and more. I mean, it is total entropy. Now, one thing we know is that persistently higher inflation will soon result in higher rates, just like we saw in 2022 I mean, rates rise in a bullish, robust and optimistic economy. And another thing that we do know is that sustained fear causes rates to fall. That's why, when you look at a chart, you see interest rates of all kinds plunge like a cliff diver during the 2001 dot com recession, the 2008 GFC and the 2020 COVID pandemic. The reason that rates fall during fearful times just like those, is because the economy needs the help and a little pro tip for you here, Jeter, when a recession begins, it's more likely than not that rates will fall. But see, it can be hard to predict a recession, as we've all found out recently, we just came off three fed interest rate cuts late last year, and that was a little weird, because the economy does not need the help that is sort of like offering Gatorade to someone that's not even sweating. Okay, and when rates scrape the ocean bottom floor at zero, from 2009 to 2016 and then again from 2020, to 2022,that's unhealthy. Natural market forces would mean that there's a cost to receive a service like borrowing money. Well, with zero rates, it feels like no one wants to save and everyone wants to borrow and spend. Zero rates, it is time to all out. Ball out. My two time GRE podcast guest here on the show, and super smart guy, Dr Chris Martinson, he thinks that rates are generally going to go higher from here. But you don't have to look far. You can find other wise guys that say they're going lower. At the last Fed meeting last year, they disappointed markets by signaling plans to only cut rates twice this year, instead of the four cuts that were previously expected. And now that's even changed since then, a lot of people question if those two cuts are even going to happen this year, given things like a hot jobs report that came flying in and still too high inflation. So this is kind of like expecting a decadent dessert of rate cuts, and instead you get, like, one Biscoff cookie, like they give you an economy on the plane. So Jeter, that's why I don't forecast rates. I don't think anyone can, but now, at least you have a couple resources, and you also know what factors move rates around. 

 

Now if you want a fun, real time pulse on the market. Check out poly market. You might have heard of it by now. It's a site where you can place bets on various outcomes, a lot of non sports bets. You can see people put their money where their mouth is. You don't have to make a wager yourself. You can just see what people are wagering on. There are wagers on fed interest rate decisions. There at Poly market, you can even place a bet on if Jerome Powell says Good afternoon at his next press conference over there on Poly market, I'm not kidding right now, the odds of him saying Good afternoon at his next press conference are 96% so remember this, the market has always felt confident about where rates are headed, and the market has always been wrong. Interest rates don't drive property values. Their intrinsic worth is based on the timeless stuff, location, amenities, income, occupancy, size, density, business case, exit options and operating costs. Those are the things that drive property values. The bottom line with interest rates is that nobody knows the future interest rates direction is a pinball game of black swans and policy pivots. So instead, focus on the big things that you can control, like how many dollars you have, leveraging properties and keeping your operations on those properties efficient. So Jeter waiting to buy property generally harms an investor more than it helps them, because it's dollars on the sidelines that are paying the opportunity cost of not leveraging other people's money. Of course, if you buy your property at whatever interest rate today, and rates soon fall like a knife, well, then you can refinance at the lower rate, all while leverage keeps compounding and building your wealth. Thanks for the question,  Jeter. 

 

If you have a listener question or comment or feedback of any type for us, as always, you can visit us at get rich education.com/contactfor either written or voice communication there, like I said earlier, that amazingly interesting centipede like chart of just how dreadful interest rate predictions have really been that was in our recent newsletter. Now it's too late for you to get that issue, but to get more like them, you can get our don't Quit your Daydream. Newsletter, completely free, just text GRE to 66866 that's text GRE to 66866.

 

now, when it comes to this month's historically bad, devastating LA area wildfires, I heard from a friend in that area last week. She lives just south of LA and her house was spared, fortunately, but she's been busy helping friends in the LA area who have lost their homes and businesses. It is truly tragic. And you know, what she told me, is the biggest, most compelling need right now, and I put some credence in this, since it's an independent on the ground report. This is outside of major media, displaced residents. Number one need is not food, it's not water, it's not clothing, it's not heat, it's not even community with 1000s of families without homes, the urgent need is for housing. You might not find that surprising. That's what she shared with me. I mean, it is a need so dire that even a family of six would consider a small mobile home or an RV rental to help with temporary housing. And a lot of these displaced families were you know, you got to consider the fact that before the fire, they were living in above average homes, even luxury homes. Now, as far as LA area, landlords that have housing to rent out, a lot of those landlords have jacked up the rent price. California's anti price gouging. Laws make it illegal for landlords to raise rent by more than 10% in the first month to six months after a disaster is declared. Now the BBC reported that one resident who lost their home in the historic California wildfires found a rental property that was previously priced at $13,000 per month, they offered $20,000 per month, and the landlord countered with 23k that is a 75% price hike. And it's not the only example. A Bel Air home located in an evacuation warning zone was listed on Zillow recently at 29,500bucks a month. That is an 86% hike from its September of last year price. That's according to the outlet called La est, another realtor raised in Encino, California, listing from 9k per month at the beginning of this month to 11 and a half K after the fires started. That's according to the LA Times. The realtor then backpedaled to abide by the 10% rule, which she said that she did not know about. And for a little context there, yes, those rent prices sound high, and La rent was already high. It averaged $2,820 a month. That's compared to $1,983a month nationally. Those figures are per Zillow. Now I don't know what percentage of La landlords are engaging in. I guess what I'll call extortionate behavior, but even if it's the vast minority of landlords you know that gives them a bad name, to have the word landlord in headlines like this. And is this behavior extortionate? In some cases, it probably is, I suspect, just a guess here that some landlords might think they have a chance of insurance paying some or all of the higher rent for their tenant that was displaced from their original home. But let's keep things in perspective here. What this does to good landlords reputations. You know, that's not the story here. The story and the effort should be in helping the displaced people. And of course, there are so many angles to the devastating la wildfires. One of them is that many believe zoning laws pushed homes out into fire prone areas. I recently shared that reason.com article with you in our free newsletter. So again, to get our Don't quit your Daydream newsletter, completely free, which I write every word of myself. Text GRE to 6866 you can do it now, while it's on your mind, hit pause and text GRE to 66866 the abject lunacy in Canada's real estate market, in what US residents and others can learn from all this, that's next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education.

 

Hey, you. Can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com That's ridgelendinggroup.com.

 

Oh geez, the national average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings, so your bank is getting rich off of you. You've got to earn way more, or else you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work with minimum risk, your cash generates up to a 10% return and compounds year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25k you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back. Their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And you know how I know, because I'm an investor in this myself, earn 10% like me and GRE listeners are text family to 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text family to 66866

 

Naresh Vissa  26:41  

this is GRE real estate investment coach. Naresh Vissa don't live below your means, grow your needs. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold.

 

Keith Weinhold  26:57  

Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, let's discuss the Canadian economy and Canadian real estate. Because even if you live in the US or Central America or Europe or one of the other 187 nations that were heard in outside the US, you know there are lessons here for you, and there are lessons here for me as well. There is some just jaw dropping material that I'm about to share with you, and I won't discuss the politics of it, because that's not GRE 's lane. Instead, it is the policy. Earlier this month, Canada's equivalent of the President, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced that he will be resigning soon. And Trudeau has been under a lot of criticism. At last check, his approval rating was a miserable 22% now, most people think that the next and future Prime Minister of Canada will be a man named Pierre Poilievre. In fact, the wagering site poly market has polyev with an over 80% chance of being Canada's next prime minister, and you will hear him speak shortly here. And yes, that is how an Anglophone pronounces his last name, polyev In a recent interview with Dr Jordan Peterson. You'll listen into here shortly. Polyev, Canada's likely next leader here, first, he describes some of the problems with Canada's economy, and then he'll get into their real estate market. Right now, the median home price in the United States is about 450k you might think that Canada's should be lower, because Canada has more land in the US and Canada has just about 1/9 of the US population. So a low population density. I mean, the US is population density is more than 10 times Canada's. But no, due to some of these policies, it's just the opposite, because Canada's average home is over 725k. yeah, that's just for a basic home. I've got to admit, I did not know who polyev was until just a couple months ago. I'm starting to like him the more that I listen to him. He's a clear thinker and a clear speaker. Here is a clip of Canada's likely next leader talking about Canada's problems. This is 10 and a half minutes long. I'm going to listen to this again with you right now, and then I will come back along with you to comment. This is why you can't buy a house in Trudeau, Canada. 

 

Unknown Speaker  29:41  

Our productivity is another major problem right now, and that's productivity. Sounds complicated. It's actually extremely simple. You just take the GDP and you divide it by the hours worked in the country. So American GDP is $80 so for every hour an American worker works, on average. He or she produces $80 of GDP in Canada, it 50. So that's every hour. So that means we have to work 60% more just to make the same amount and have the same level of income to buy food and housing. And so that's the Now that sounds like a bunch of wonk speak that should might seem like it only matters to someone staring at a spreadsheet or a graph or a chart, but in fact, that's reflected in the fact that our 2 million people are lined up at food banks because they can't afford food, and 80% of youth can't afford homes, and our quality of life is and the things we can afford to provide our kids have fallen back so much there's a real, real life, Stark and easily comprehensible statistic. And if you work and you produce $80 worth of goods and services in an hour, yeah, compared to working and producing 50, obviously, that's a substantial shortfall. Yeah. So, and is that, is there a starker indicator of the economic disparity between the US and Canada than that? Or do you think that's the primary statistic? I mean, I think housing costs are another one. I mean, right. There was a study out just 10 days ago that has Toronto and Vancouver now by far the most unaffordable housing markets in North America. And so you know, housing costs are 50% higher in Toronto than they are in Chicago, even though Chicago workers make 50% more money. The same is true between Vancouver and Seattle. Seattle workers make way more than Vancouver workers, but housing is 60 or 70% more expensive in Vancouver. So on, all the measures by a lot. Yes, a lot by a lot. Yeah, and we're and we're paying more, more by a lot, right? And most of that's transpired the last 10 years. Yes, and we're paying the difference by accumulating enormous quantities of debt. Our households are by far the most indebted in the g7. when you take you divide total household debt by GDP, we now have a bigger stock of household debt than our entire economy. We are more indebted as households than the Americans were right before the oh eight financial crisis. And so what we have as a model in Canada is we have artificial scarcity imposed by very heavy and restrictive state, confiscatory state, so that suppresses production. But in order to allow for consumption, we print money and borrow money and then flood the economy with that money. Okay, so that's another problem. So that's the inflationary problem. Yes. Now the problem with inflation just many problems with inflation, but one of them is that it particularly punishes people who are thrifty and who save? Yes, right, right? So inflation punishes the people who forego gratification to invest in the future. That's right, right? So that's a very bad idea. It's our inflation is the single most immoral tax for so many reasons. One, it takes from savers and people who are trying to be responsible, thus making it impossible to be responsible, because you will, if you, if you refuse to play the inflation game of borrowing money to buy things you can't afford, someone else inevitably will, and you won't be able to afford anything. So you ultimately have to actor responsibly. It's like Milton Friedman was asked, What would you do with your money in times of inflation? He said, spend it right like the first thing you want to do when inflation is out of control is to make sure you get rid of this thing that's losing its value. The second reason it's immoral is it takes from the poor, because the poorest people cannot put they do not have the ability to buy inflation proof assets like gold and real estate and fancy watches and art collections and wine fancy wines and things that go up with or even exceed inflation. So it's a very big wealth transfer from the have to the from the from the poor and the working class to the very, very wealthy, a very small group of people actually get richer. So the socialist policies that provide goods and services to Canadians, let's say, or denizens of other countries by printing money, actually punish the poor brutally. Oh, absolutely, and consequence of the inflation that they generate. Yes, I mean all the socialist policies in practice take redistribute from the working class to the super wealthy in practice, and I can prove that again and again and again in practice, yeah, in practice. In practice they with the all the redistribution that happens in the so called socialist countries ultimately goes from the working class to the super wealthy. That is the reality. Okay, so, but just one last thing on inflation. The final reason why it's so immoral is nobody votes on it. The basic principle of our parliamentary system is the government can't tax what parliament has not voted the people must no taxation without representation, right? But no one ever votes to have the money printing happen. And so the inflation is adopted secretly, and you blame the grocer because groceries are more expensive, or your local gas station because gas is more or your realtor because house, in fact, it was actually the government that bid up all of those things with money printing, and you didn't even know about it. So it is silent. It's a silent thief that takes from the poor and gives to the richest people and destroys the working class. And that's why I am I want to crush inflation. We need a policy that seeks to just to stop inflation at all, at all costs. Okay, so what would you do to to stop inflation? Well, we stopped the money printing. You know, we need a we need. And the money printing is just a means to fund deficit spending. Governments borrow to define the deficit, yeah, for people. So basically, the deficit is the difference between what the government spends and what it brings in. It's usually calculated on a yearly basis, that's right, yeah, and the debt, but the debt is just the accumulation of the deficits, right? So the deficit right now is $62 billion and I thought it had a ceiling of 41 billion. Yeah, right. Isn't that a ceiling? Yes, not a I guess not. And look, there are very real present day consequences for that. Deficits increase the money supply. Central banks effectively facilitate that increase in the money supply, and that causes inflation. And, you know, it's, it's why our, you know, I have a buddy who's whose family moved here from Italy back in 1973 His father worked paving roads and his mother made sandwiches in a senior's home, they were able to pay off their home 10 minutes from Parliament Hill in seven years. Right, their grandchildren wouldn't be able to save up a down payment for that home in 15 years, and they will be university educated with all the advantages of having been here two decades. That is the consequence of the money supply growing vastly quicker than the stuff that money buys. So we have to do is stop growing the money supply and start growing the stuff money buys. Right? Produce more energy, grow more food, build more homes. We have to unleash the free enterprise system to produce more stuff of value, and this is where we have to remove the artificial scarcity that the government is imposing on the population. Let's incentivize our municipalities to grant the fastest building permits in the world to build homes. You have a plan for that in principle, yes, I mean, I'm going to say to the municipal governments, they either, they either speed up permits, cut Development Charges and free up land, or they will lose their federal infrastructure money, so they will have a powerful carrot and stick incentive to speed up home building and the percentage of a new house price. That's a consequence of government, taxation and regulation. Well, in Vancouver, it's 60% 66 does that include the land and the house? Yes, that includes everything. So I'll tell you how they calculate it, CD, how took the cost of building a compare the cost of building a home to the cost of buying a home, yeah. And he said, what's the gap between those two things? So they added up land, labor, profit for the developer, materials, and they compared that to the sale price, and they found the gap was $1.2 million so that's $1.2 million of extra cost, above and beyond the materials, the labor, the land and the profit for the developer. So where's that going? Well? The answer is, development charges,sales taxes, land transfer taxes, the delays in getting the permit. Time is money, the consultants, lawyers, accountants, lobbyists that the developer has to hire in order to get the approval that so in other words, we're spending twice in Vancouver. We spend twice as much on bureaucrats than we do on all other things combined. To build a home, more money goes to bureaucrats than goes to the carpenters, electricians and plumbers who build the place. And to add insult to injury, those trades people who build homes can't afford to live in them, right? I mean, it is. So what we need to do is slash the bureaucracy. And I'm going to I'm going to say to the mayors, you're not getting federal infrastructure money until you slash your development charges, speed up your permits. I'm going to take. The Federal GST off new homes under a certain limit, and encourage the provinces to do the same. But we've got so much land. We should have the most affordable housing in the world. We have. It should be dirt cheap because we have the most dirt we just need to get the government out of the way. 

 

Keith Weinhold  40:20  

Yeah, again, that was Dr Jordan Peterson interviewing Canada's likely next leader, Pierre poilievre, just a few weeks ago now. Polyev, when discussing inflation and investing, you know, he also brought up points that I've surfaced here on the show over the past few years. He even articulates a few things the way I've described them. It's almost weird, like inflation means that it actually makes sense to strategically borrow and spend and not to save. It's almost like polyev is a GRE listener. I love how he said, stop growing the money supply and start growing the things that money buys. We're talking about things like homes and energy and food. That was eloquent. I mean, in Vancouver, the percentage of a new house cost for taxation and regulation is 60% of the cost of the home, fully 60 and then, if that's not surprising enough, due to all these layers of regulation, the cost of building a new home is $1.2 million more than the cost of buying an existing home. Just astounding. This might have even left you either flabbergasted or gobsmacked, which one?So some parallels to the US there in Canada, but back here in the US, the housing market is clearly more affordable and healthier. Polyev really pointed out a direction that the US does not want to fall into. In fact, we've got a pretty good Canadian listening contingent. So let me ask, Do you have a connection to Pierre poilievre, if you do, we would probably like to invite him here on to the show with us. If you do, or you even know someone that knows someone, let us know right into get rich education.com/contact or email us directly at info@get rich education.com and we'll make that happen now. What is happening at GRE marketplace right now is that our listeners are getting brand new build investment property in Florida and some other places at competitive prices and a fixed interest rate of just four and three quarters percent. So yes, that is sub Canadian prices, by far below Canadian prices, and a four and three quarter percent rate. And then on top of that, you get to pay an affordable insurance premium in Florida because it's new build, or similarly, it's that way in other states if you buy new build, but builders overbuilt in some pockets of Florida, like I've mentioned to you before. So at this time, on top of all that, they're offering a free full year of property management. And because when you own a new build property, it's not occupied with tenants on day one, and this means that you don't inherit unknown tenants. And builders are also offering you up to three months in a rent guarantee in case your single family home or duplex or four Plex is not occupied yet, the builder would pay the rent for you. Really amazing incentives, but probably none better than that four and three quarter percent mortgage rate. I mean, it's like you get to roll the clock back to when rates were artificially low, back in 2021, and 2022, and lock it in. Now, our GRE investment coaches connect you with the investment property that's right for you based on your needs and your goals, including those four and three quarter percent rates, if you so choose, it is all free at GRE marketplace. From GRE marketplace.com just click on the coaching area and you can book a time right there until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream. 

 

Unknown Speaker  44:23  

nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively

 

Unknown Speaker  44:51  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building get rich education.com you.

 

Cost segregation studies can significantly reduce taxable income by accelerating depreciation on rental properties. They reclassify certain property components, such as flooring and lighting, to shorter depreciation schedules (5, 7, or 15 years) instead of the standard 27.5 years for residential or 39 years for commercial properties. 

This method can result in substantial tax savings. For example, a $510,000 duplex study yielded $131,000 in accelerated depreciation, potentially saving $40,000 in taxes at a 30% rate. 

Although the percentage has been stepping down, it may be reinstated to 100% under the Trump administration.

Initiate a cost segregation study estimate here to determine the potential tax savings. 

GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREmarketplace.com/Coach

For access to properties or free help with a

GRE Investment Coach, start here:

GREmarketplace.com

Show Notes:

GetRichEducation.com/537

Get mortgage loans for investment property:

RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE 

or e-mail: [email protected]

Invest with Freedom Family Investments. 

You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866

Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” 

For advertising inquiries, visit:

GetRichEducation.com/ad

Best Financial Education:

GetRichEducation.com

Get our wealth-building newsletter free—

text ‘GRE’ to 66866

Our YouTube Channel:

www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation

Follow us on Instagram:

@getricheducation

Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, when you reduce your taxable income, that's a zero risk return on your investment. You'll learn how to do that today with any rental real estate that you own through what's known as a cost segregation study, even those without a giant portfolio can save 10s or hundreds of 1000s of dollars. An expert guests and I break it down with real life examples, see just how it can help you today. On get rich education

 

Speaker 1  0:34  

since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show, guess who? Top Selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com

 

Corey Coates  1:19  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:35  

Welcome to GRE from Berlin, Pennsylvania to Berlin, Germany and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education. And one way that I like to be positioned in real estate is the sense that I own it directly, yet I use a property manager so that I'm shielded from the day to day responsibility. I care, but I can still live my life now you might favor direct ownership like I do, yet choose to self manage your property instead. That's a viable way to do it. Self management is how I started out, but however you handle the management when you own directly, you can alter your effective post tax rate of return on your investment, and that's what we're talking about doing today with a cost segregation what this effectively does is increase your tax depreciation benefit. Though depreciation sounds bad as a word in the real estate world, even without spending any of your own money, it's still classified by the tax code as an expense that you can deduct from your taxable income. You don't want to reduce your income, only the taxable income reducing the portion that the IRS can get a piece of. Now, unless it's a condo, your rental property probably includes both a structure called the improvement and also the land. Now your improvement has components that wear out, and even the IRS knows that the land does not wear out yet. There are items on the land that you can get this accelerated depreciation on through a cost segregation, like fencing and lighting and carports. A lot of people don't know that, so there is therefore a land improvement segregation often on a 15 year schedule, but it's even more lucrative to get cost segregations applied to things inside your building or home that wear out faster, like countertops or flooring, as we'll see today, on shorter schedules, like five or seven years. Said another way what you're doing is that you are shielding more of your taxable income. And I'm going to ask today's Cost Segregation expert guest for an example near the start of our conversation, so he'll give us some numbers. And you want to listen to that part closely, and you might find yourself skipping back to re listen to some parts today as we give real life examples on how a cost seg works. Now, today is a Presidential Inauguration Day, so it's appropriate that we cover this today, because Trump is widely expected to reset 100% bonus depreciation, which, as you'll see, factors into our discussion today. And frequent GRE guest Tom wheelwright thinks that this is going to happen too this 100% bonus depreciation. What that means that, for example, all those land improvements that I mentioned on a 15 year depreciation schedule, where you could front load it and get it all in year one of your ownership and those components indoors. On shorter depreciation schedules, like five to seven years, you can get all those write offs in year one without waiting five to seven years. So that's. The sweetener that 100% bonus depreciation is, if Trump indeed brings that back, and you might say, wait a second, this sounds a little too good to be true. I mean, getting these amounts, you'll see they can be over 100k in tax savings, even for a small investor, that you can reduce your taxable income by Well, you know, it is just a little too good to be true, because when you sell the property down the road, you have to pay back 25% of what you wrote off this way in what's known as a depreciation recapture tax. So it's still worth doing. In a lot of cases, you would keep 75% of your benefit then, unless you do a tax deferred exchange on your sale, and then you could defer that 25% depreciation recapture tax. So yes, today's episode is deeper than most. And you know, being a Presidential Inauguration Day, and knowing that I like to drop a little levity here before we delve into deep topics, what does the outgoing presidential administration have to say about cost? Segregations get hot.

 

Speaker 2  6:13  

 I got Lana. I got hairy legs that turn that turnblonde in the sun, and the kids used to come up and reach in the pool and rub my leg down so it was trained, and then watch the hair come back up again.

 

Keith Weinhold  6:32  

I don't know what just happened there. Let me just give him another chance to clear things up. I mean, you really can do a cost segregation, 

 

Speaker 2  6:41  

we have this notion that somehow, if you're poor, you cannot do it. Poor kids are just as bright and just as tall as white kids. 

 

Keith Weinhold  6:51  

Gosh, oh dear, I don't I don't know where to go with that. And hey, if you're a new listener, you know, over time, we poke a little fun at every president. We do with Trump as well. We do with Jerome Powell. No one is immune around here. Some people, hey, they might find it funny that a former real estate investor President like Trump wants to expand America's real estate portfolio by taking Canada and Greenland in the Panama Canal back too. Politics matter, but this is not a politically partisan platform in any way. What's politically partisan? It's saying that the economy is like absolutely awful, but then as soon as your guy gets sworn in, one hour later, you're willing to call that same economy. Now suddenly, a great economy. No, a national economy does not change in one hour. So free thinking and thinking for yourself beats polarizing political partisanship. That's a way it's been around here from day one. Yeah, a little levity, a good knee slapper now and then knee slapper coming up in future weeks on the show here, the real estate guys radio show host and a friend, Robert Helms, will be here to update us on what's happening in the short term rental market, mid term rental market and more. We'll also announce a big collaboration that he and I are going to do together this year, and you'll be invited to join us today, let's discuss cost segregation.

 

You can take your tax burden and put a huge dent in it by accelerating your real estate depreciation deduction with a cost segregation This could save you 1000s of dollars every year or more depending on the size of your real estate portfolio. We're talking about how to specifically do this with a cost seg expert. He's been a real estate investor for over 20 years. He builds new rentals to hold, and he and his son do that together. In fact, you're currently building a 24 unit complex now. But the reason he's here is because he started a specific cost segregation company in 2012 and he completes over 100 cost seg studies every year. So he's really the guy to talk to. Steve, welcome on to the show. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It's great to have an expert like you here and Steve, I think a lot of real estate investors, they're familiar with tax depreciation. That's where for rental property, with residential, there's a 27 and a half year schedule. And commercial has a 39 year schedule. We take the reciprocal of those numbers, and that means that, for example, in residential, you can write off about 3.6% of the improved property value every year. That's pretty nice on a 500k property that right there is 18k that can be sheltered from taxes annually. But most investors stop right there. So in a lot of cases, they aren't maximizing their tax benefit. You can write off substantially more than that, potentially. With a cost segregation. So tell us about it. 

 

Steve Trussell  10:04  

Cost Segregation. As you just mentioned, you have your regular depreciation, which most do take. Believe it or not, I've come across a few people that own property for a few years, and they're not taking it at all, which is, I don't understand that maybe they're doing on accounting, but we get them on track with that. But as you said, 27 and a half and 39 year depreciation, whether it's residential, 27 a half commercial, 39 that's all well and good, but there's a lot of money left on the table, because when you look at the the piece of real estate, there's a probably 22 to 32% of the asset itself, the depreciable asset that's shorter life, for example, cabinets, flooring, light fixtures, uh, outside the landscaping, retaining walls, things like that that are shorter life. So what we do in a cost segregation study, we go in and we rebuild the property through an engineered study, we pull out the five and the 15 year property and reclassified. And so usually you're going to wind up with about 70, 75% of it will stay on the schedule. It was on whether it be 27 and a half or 39 but then that 20 to 30% that we're going to bring forward is a huge number. So for example, I just recently did one. It was a duplex, $510,000 was the purchase 433, was the basis, after land, the depreciable basis. It was kicking out about 16,000 a year in regular depreciation. For the investor, which covered, you know, their cash flow and so forth, so forth. Most people know how that works. We were able to go back and accelerate it and get 131,000 or about 31% of it in 515, year property. So they had $131,000 depreciation amount sitting there. Then they still were able to write off the 302, that was left at 11,000 a year. So they're still getting their normal depreciation, a smaller number, but that 131,000 if they can use it with bonus depreciation, is $131,000 of money sitting there. They could offset $131,000 of income. That's a huge number. If they're not doing that now, they're leaving money on the table.

 

Keith Weinhold  12:01  

 Gosh, $131,000 of potential tax sheltering, which is, yeah, a huge number on a 500k duplex, like you described.

 

Steve Trussell  12:11  

It's a substantial number. And if you're not doing cost segregation, then you're leaving a lot of money on the table, like I said. So then it comes down to it. It's a, I guess, cost versus benefits. So the first thing we do is, I get the data from your purchase of your piece of real estate or server, whatever it is, we put together an estimate of benefit to give you an idea of what that would look like for you, like in this example, that's what we produced. Was what we thought we could bring forward for this investor. And then at that point, once we determine that you look at 131,000 the cost of our study is $1,830 so 131 versus 1830 is a pretty good bargain. I believe. I mean, I know I'm selling my product, but that's a pretty good bargain. Yeah. And then the third part of it is, so we've established that it's probably makes sense. But then can you use it? If you're a real estate professional, if you're familiar with what that means, you can write that off against your active and passive income. If you're not, you're a w2 and you're not quite there. Yet it may be that you don't do it now. You do it in a couple of years, but either way, the process is there when you can use it. Probably 80% of my investors are able to use it the year we do it. And if you don't use all of it, you carry it forward. So it's makes sense, typically, to do a cost segregation study, but that's what we help you establish by one, the estimate, and two, discussing with you or with your CPA, does this fit you? Is this something you can use as from a tax standpoint?

 

Keith Weinhold  13:37  

Yes, it was just a few episodes ago. I describe more about what real estate professional status is. The main thing is, typically, real estate needs to be you, the investor's principal activity. So it's not very likely that you're going to be a real estate professional if you still have a full time day job.

 

Steve Trussell  13:56  

There are doctors and lawyers and people like that that have a full time job, and they just could not justify spending the amount of time and being a real estate professional. But sometimes their wife would be the candidate to be that. So their wife becomes or this, or the husband. If the wife is there's the breadwinner, becomes the real estate professional, and then they can take that and write it off against their active income. And I don't want to jump into the CPA side of this. That's more of a CPA question, but that's how I understand it works. And I've seen that happen before, where someone who has a full time job is able to bring their spouse in as their real estate professional, and they're able to use utilize it that way.

 

Keith Weinhold  14:34  

Well, to talk more about this benefit of $131,000 on the duplex example that you gave, if all that is able to be deducted at a 30% income tax rate, that is 40k of savings. 40k is about 30% of this $131,000 number. So that's the money the increase in net income in your pocket.

 

Steve Trussell  15:00  

 yeah, which is substantial, and that's where you look at your individual tax break. I'm gonna save 40,000 in taxes, and I'm gonna spend $1,800 for the study. Makes sense to me to do that. It's pretty good return on your money, but it comes down to being able to use it. And so that's the things that we explore when I'm talking to a client. 

 

Keith Weinhold  15:19  

Now, Steve, I know in the past, I have talked to cost segregation engineers and their firms on the phone, where they've looked at some properties that I had, and I don't remember whether they charged me for this or not, but what I learned is it wouldn't be worth going ahead with a cost segregation study on and I'm thinking that they didn't charge me anything to tell me that, but really what I'm getting at is, can you tell us more about when it makes sense to do a cost seg on properties, and when it does not? 

 

Steve Trussell  15:46  

Well, there's okay if you're going to sell it the next few years, it does because you're going to recapture so you don't want to spend money for a study only to get the benefit for a year and then sell it and have to recapture it. Now, in my personal situation, I have done that because I bought more property and I was able to use the cost segregation to offset my gains versus a 1031 So by and large, it doesn't make sense. If you're going to sell it, that's number one. You may have owned it for eight or nine years, 10 years, maybe you've used a lot of your depreciation already. So that delta between the accelerated depreciation and which you've already taken may not be enough to make sense. It may be a property that's, you know, $80,000 probably doesn't make a lot of sense to spend the money. The mass just doesn't typically work there. I've done some as low as that because they wanted the tax benefit, and I'll do whatever the client wants me to do. But those are the three things that I would say probably would determine whether it makes sense or not. But that's where the estimate comes in. I mean, you bring me a property, and if it's $40,000 I'll tell you before I do anything, probably not worth messing with it. It's you're not gonna get much benefit. But if you bring me a property and it's $125,000 asset, we'll take a look at it. I'll do a quick estimate for you, no charge, and it'll either apply and make sense for you, or it won't. And I'll be the first to tell you, if it doesn't you know your individual tax situation, I'm just talking about the dollars that we create for you versus the cost. If it doesn't make sense, I'll tell you. I don't want you to waste your money doing a cost segregation study if you don't need it or can't use it. 

 

Keith Weinhold  17:14  

Okay, So there are a number of factors here, which could include how long the investors own the property, how soon they plan to sell the property. It sounds like there's generally a correlation here, with the larger the property, the more likely it is that it makes sense to do the study as well.

 

Steve Trussell  17:29  

It does. I have a client that I'm working on right now. He has six properties, and I think they were 2021, acquisition. So that was it four years ago, and they're not on a depreciation schedule, he hasn't taken anything. So in this case, it's, you certainly would want to do a cost segregation study, and that you need to have your properties on a depreciation schedule anyway, for whatever reason they weren't there. So in this case, if you came across a client that had a property for 10 years or for some reason it was never on a depreciation schedule, which that's, I don't know how that would happen, but let's assume it did. In that case, you would make sense to do because you're going to catch up all that depreciation from back, from 10 years ago all the way through today, which would even be a larger number. So that happens occasionally, rarely it happens, but it does happen where someone has never depreciated a property. 

 

Keith Weinhold  18:17  

We're talking with a man that can greatly reduce your tax burden. I think for one thing, first, he's gonna check to make sure that you're taking the basic tax depreciation. But beyond that, as you can see here, there's a potential to do a lot more with a cost segregation. You're listening to get rich education more when we come back on cost seg studies, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold. 

 

hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine, at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President CaeliRidge personally. Start now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com.

 

Oh geez, the initial average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings, so your bank is getting rich off of you. You've got to earn way more, or else you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work with minimum risk, your cash generates up to a 10% return and compounds year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25k you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back. Their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And you know how I'd know, because I'm an investor in this myself. Earn. And 10% like me and GRE listeners are. Text family to 66866, to learn about freedom, family investments, liquidity fund on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text family to 66866

 

Robert Helms  20:17  

 Hey everybody. It's Robert helms with the real estate guys radio program. So glad you found Keith whitehold and get rich education. Don't quit your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  20:32  

Welcome back to get rich education. I love talking about tax savings vehicles, because it's like a no risk instant ROI to you, that's what we're doing today, when we're talking about accelerating your depreciation and reducing your tax burden through a cost segregation. And Steve, in my experience, I know that you can't just ask anyone to go do this study, like your Slack John, uncle with a tape measure and sending him out there. It takes a person with a certain credential in a Cost Segregation engineering analysis. So can you tell us more about what physically needs to take place to have a cost seg done?

 

Steve Trussell  21:09  

Yeah, you're right. People. You could try to do this yourself, but it probably wouldn't pass muster with the IRS if you were to, if they were to question the study. One thing that we do, and most firms like mine would do also, we do back up the study, and we do guarantee that we will defend the study on your behalf. If there's a question, very rarely does it come up, but if there's a question from the IRS, we step in in your place and defend the study and justify how we arrived at these and that's only through a call to an engineered study. So if you have your your uncle, as you mentioned, doing it, it doesn't follow the audit technique guide. Doesn't follow the guides that are required for cost segregation study. You're probably going to find it getting kicked out and wind up owing taxes and penalties. So you want to make sure you're someone who's qualified and they do an engineer study, same thing as a CPA. CPAs aren't qualified to do a cost segregation study because it is an engineered study. We're breaking down the entire property and rebuilding it with our software on commercial buildings. You'd mentioned. What do we do? Commercial building? We do a physical site visit. We actually go to the property. Those are more expensive because we're there at the property and travel time and so forth. That to do that with engineers on residential we have a unique program. We do a virtual site visit where I can do this or my desktop, and that's why I'm able to keep the cost down. But we still do a site visit, because there's so many tools available today to be able to do a virtual site visit, I mean, for anywhere in the United States. So we can do this anywhere in the United States, and I take the tools that we have, the data I get from the client, we can do a virtual site visit and create the study from that 

 

Keith Weinhold  22:43  

really what the IRS is doing, whether this probably isn't reality, but you're saying your property wears out completely in 27 and a half years. That means that you can take some portion of that and depreciate it each year, but with some of these components that you mentioned, like the flooring and like the bushes. I think even the landscaping is one of the components that you can do a cost seg on. Basically they're saying that wears out faster. 

 

Steve Trussell  23:11  

Correct. Pretty much everything outside the building is 15 year life, sometimes even shorter than that. But that's how it classes 15 year life. Like your driveway, your like I said earlier, your retaining walls, grass, landscaping, fences, things like that, outdoor lighting, stuff like that. The inside the building is the five year property, which is your countertops, your flooring, fixtures. Think of things. I mean, floor is going to wear out before 27 half years, you're going to be replaced. You do it in your own home. Typically, you know? Well, I would never keep it for 27 and a half years. I would I wouldn't thank him in my house, but because they do wear out sooner. Tile is a little different animal. There's some debate about that, but for the most part, it's components like that that we're able to reclass in a five year classification. 

 

Keith Weinhold  23:54  

That's pretty generous. Grass wears out in 15 years.

 

Steve Trussell  23:58  

Well, it's a 15 year. Yeah, it dies. You know, things change landscape, things like that. So yeah, you do. Those can be classed at 15 years. 

 

Keith Weinhold  24:08  

All right, we've talked about the cost in terms of dollars a bit for what a cost segregation study might cost. How much time does it take from the time one is initiated?

 

Steve Trussell  24:16  

It depends. We could typically work with your schedule. I get a lot of last minute folks that get with me in September and they need their October 15, or even this September 15 depends on what kind of entry Do you have it in. And so we can turn these as quickly as you need it, typically, if I have all the data and all the information, especially if it's a residential where I'm not having to travel, but by and large, I can turn these in less than 30 days back to you, and if you need it sooner, we'll burn the midnight oil and get it done for you. That's during crutch time for between January 1 and April 15. If you file early or on time, if you file in October and you extend your taxes and the automatic extension in April, you've got to have the study done before you file. Your taxes. So if you wanted it for 2024 you need to have a study completed by April 15 of 2025 if you're going to file it April 15, if you're gonna file in October, the automatic extension, you need to have it completed by then. So our busy season is January through April 15, and then probably starting July, August time frame through October 15. That's our busy season. So the point of it, if you're going to do a study and use it for your current tax year, it must be completed no matter when you purchased it, but it must be completed prior to you filing your taxes, so you can use it on that tax return.

 

Keith Weinhold  25:35  

All right, so we're just getting into Steve's busy season. So if you think this can benefit you. You want to initiate that sooner rather than later. But Steve, when we talk more about the benefits, we've had a change in presidential administration. So tell us more about the bonus depreciation benefit.

 

Steve Trussell  25:53  

Your bonus appreciation came out in the previous administration before this last one, Trump's first administration that came out of that. So the anything where you reclass is five, seven and 15, your property, but it's 100% bonus. In other words, if you go back to the 131,000 I mentioned on the duplex, all of that in between September 2017 through December 31 to 2022 you get 100% of that. It's starting in January of 2023 through the end of december 23 it went to 80% and the next year, 60, and in 2025 it's going to be 40. But there's been an extension that was passed last in 2024 in the house to go back to the 100% installed in the Senate. And we think with the new administration, we'll probably in the new tax cuts, we'll probably see this reinstated and go back to the 100% which is substantial. If you're getting, you know, 60% of the 131, what is that? 78,000 bucks, roughly, something like that. And if you're getting 100% that's a big difference. So we're hopeful that we'll see that sometime in the first quarter. And so even if you file your taxes in April and it hasn't passed yet and you've only gotten four, you only get 40% bonus depreciation. You'll get that extra 60 the next year. What's happening now, though, before it, if it without being stated, you're still getting a bigger benefit. Because, as I mentioned before, the 131 comes forward, and you get the percentage of that the 302 is left over. In that example I used earlier, you've got your regular 27 net fear depreciation, but that 131 is still five and 15 year property, so you're depreciating that much faster than you would on a 27 after your schedule. So you're still getting a benefit, just not as good as when you get 100% bonus depreciation.

 

Keith Weinhold  27:34  

Okay. And again, when you're talking about five, seven and 15 year property, you're talking about those component lifespans, correct, where we reclass that bonus depreciation benefit started out at 100% a few years ago. It's been stepping down 20% each year, and that is set to most likely refresh here sometime this year, back to the full 100% bonus depreciation. And if that does indeed happening you the listener. You're going to be hearing about that from your real estate investor friends and your social media feed and everything else, and you're going to maybe be feeling left out of that unless you get on top of it and take part of this. That's exactly what we're talking about doing right now. Steve, why don't you talk to us about some of those other components that are included or excluded from a cost segregation study, whether that's lighting fixtures or parking lot asphalt, tell us more.

 

Steve Trussell  28:27  

Exterior is the 15 year life we talked about, the parking lots, the big residential the driveways, the landscaping, the fencing, retaining walls, bushes, the things that are gonna be outside. Okay, everything outside is 15 years pretty much, yes. And then when you go inside, look at the things that you would typically change out. You're not gonna change your plumbing. It's in your foundation and your walls, unless it breaks. You're not gonna change your roof. Is also, even though you change it out, it's also a permanent part of the structure. The roof is but the inside the house you have your or even outside, you've got your brick on the outside of your siding, that's 27 half for your property inside the cabinets, your countertops, flooring, your decorative light fixtures, the your plumbing fixtures, things like that, glass mirrors, things like that, that are going to be naturally shorter life. And it's pretty easy to look at a piece of property and see what's permanent again, like I use the example, the foundation, the studs in the wall, the brick, the she rock on the wall, those things are permanent fixtures. It's the things that are movable parts, typically, that you could look at, and that makes up 22 to 32% I've had to go higher, but 22 to 32 is a good range of the asset from five year and 15 year.

 

Keith Weinhold  29:42  

All right, so really, the dividing line for Cost Segregation is stated as what is a permanent fixture and what is not permanent. 

 

Steve Trussell  29:50  

Yeah, probably in the general sense, yeah, I would say that. Well, are there any

 

Keith Weinhold  29:53  

other things that one should know about a cost segregation study, whether that's myths or misunderstandings that need. To be cleared up, or just anything else at all. One needs to know about a cost segregation study. A couple

 

Speaker 3  30:05  

things. One, the myth is that a lot of people think that it triggers audits that you're changing your accounting or you're getting this big bonus depreciation that's in the tax law, and so you're just taking advantage of the same zero to depreciation. Putting depreciation on your schedule, on your tax return, doesn't trigger audits. I mean, that's just buying property and you're putting it on the return. Accelerated depreciation doesn't either, because you do an engineered study. So part of the myth people think that they're going to call it, it's going to trigger an audit. It doesn't. It's a standard practice that accepted by the IRS and the study. The only thing that might, that might trigger isn't the agent. If they're doing an audit of your taxes, they might look at the study and say, Why did you classify this as this but this amount? Well, we go back through our data and our study through our software, and we could prove out how we came up with that value, and that's what they would ask. Is something like that, but it doesn't trigger an audit necessarily, just because you do a study. Second thing I've said this, I'll save all my clients. I said a couple times here, it's important that you can use it, that you can use the benefit. It does not do any good to go spend money for a study and get $131,000 appreciation, like I mentioned earlier, and it just sits there your w2 income, and you can't use it towards that that's far exceeds what you're making on your property. There's still a point in doing that until you can use it. There are other companies out there. They won't discuss that with you. They'll just tell you, you know, let's do a cost segregation study, because you get all these great benefits, but it doesn't do any good if you can't use it. Like I said that 131 be sitting on your depreciation schedule. That's bonus depreciation, but you're not able to do anything with it. If you're a high earner and you're not a real estate professional, you can't use it. So just be aware of that. If anybody brings a cost segregation study to you, and they don't discuss with you how it benefits you, I just be aware of that it's got to benefit you. What's the point if it doesn't 

 

Keith Weinhold  31:57  

that's a really great reminder you want to have this done the right way with someone that knows it can benefit you and more than offset the cost of the study. Maybe I should just bring up one example here of maybe a common turnkey property that a listener might buy that's not very high cost. Say that someone buys a fully rehabilitated, just $180,000 rental single family home built in the 1970s two bed, one bath. I'm sure there are some. It depends factors, but in general, would that be a candidate for a Cost Segregation if that were a new purchase for an investor?

 

Steve Trussell  32:35  

I do it all the time, because it doesn't matter how old the property is. What matters is when you purchases. That's when your start date hits and or when you sell it to start date for the next person as well. So yeah, in that case, you're going to take roughly 15% for land. We go to the county website and see what they're using for land, and if they're using 6% that's what we'll use. But 15% is acceptable by the IRS. So in that case, 15% is what $27,000 so your 147 I think, would be your depreciable amount in it, 25% of that is 25 and almost $40,000 of depreciation versus an $1,800 study. And so if you're in a third step bracket, you're gonna save 12,000 in taxes and spend 1800 to save it. I mean, I would swap 1800 for 12,000 Gosh, any time. So, yeah, it would work. But then that comes down to, you know, you individually. What do you do for a living? What's your income? Like it would what level of income you're at. But can you use the 40,000 and celebrate depreciation? And that can be determined between a conversation with me, you and probably your CPA, so they know your tax situation the best, and then I really like the CPA to be involved. It's up to the client, but I'd prefer them to be involved so they know exactly what we're doing. Some CPAs aren't that familiar with it, so we can help them with getting this on the tax schedule. If they need us to on depreciation schedule, they really want the CPA to be involved if the client is comfortable with it because they know your tax situation the best. I can create the benefit for you. They can help you determine if you can use it.

 

Keith Weinhold  34:08  

That's a good point. I would imagine that there are some tax preparers that have never seen this on one of their clients returns before, so that's a great help. And that was an awesome breakdown of just how things might actually look for someone. It just kind of has that most basic, low cost, 180k turnkey property. Steve, before I ask you if you have any last thoughts or anything else that the listeners should know if you want to connect with Steve, do that in the same way that you learn about our properties and our providers at GRE marketplace.com, click in the coaching area, your investment coach is going to help connect you with Steve all of his resources and adjacent resources that are helpful with you. Steve, is there any last thing that someone ought to know?

 

Speaker 3  34:50  

I just think if you own property at all, it makes sense to get an estimate for cost segregation. It doesn't cost you anything. And then we could decide to. Together Again, like I said, along with your CPA, here's my benefit. Can I use it? And they cost you nothing to do that. Your CPA may charge you some time, I'm not sure, but working with me to get through the estimate phase up to the benefit, what's gonna look like for you that we do that for free, and so if you own any property, it makes sense to take a look at it or just have a phone conversation, because if you call me, you tell me, I make $300,000 a year. I'm a engineer, doctor, whatever it happens to be, and I work full time. My wife works full time. I'm probably gonna tell you, you know, you're probably not a candidate right now, because, like, we'd be a great benefit, but you can't use this great benefit right now. Let's revisit it when maybe you can. So it's just worth a phone conversation and you get me the data that I need, which is pretty simple stuff. I could put together an estimate before you turn it around and you decide, what if it makes sense for you? 

 

Keith Weinhold  35:48  

Yeah, if you have that conversation with Steve and worst case scenario, you can't use it, you better believe you're going to come off being pretty well informed in knowing the next time that you can use it, perhaps on your next purchase. Well, this has been supremely helpful, Steve. A lot of people are going to benefit from it. It's been great having you here on the show to talk about cost segregation.

 

Steve Trussell  36:09  

I appreciate you having me. Thank you very much.

 

Keith Weinhold  36:17  

Like Steve said, it's about 22 to 32% of the depreciable assets value, which is that house or building, not the land, can be deducted at an accelerated depreciation rate, faster than the 27 and a half year residential or 39 year Commercial depreciation rate. And Steve told me that before some investors even buy property, they will ask him how it would look with a cost segregation and hold on the numbers, and that way you can use it for your pro forma ROI calculation. Yeah, before you've even purchased a property, like I said, you can't have your Slack John uncle do a cost seg study. Plus your uncle is in slack jawed. Anyway. In fact, I'm the only slack jaw you've ever known. Now, I personally plan to send Steve a copy of my depreciation schedule so he can tell me how things would look for my properties. He can do this for you just the same. There is no charge. It's best to submit everything by mid March at the latest, if you file your taxes in mid April. So we are now in their busy season at GRE marketplace, that's where you do more than connect with our investment coaches and properties. There are also service providers, including Steve. Our coaches are there to help you optimize your ROI. This is a type of thing where if you think it's a good idea, you know you're probably not going to pick this up later if you don't move at the speed of instruction now. So if you think that it can benefit you from GRE marketplace.com, click in the coaching area. Get that set up, and we'll connect you to Steve and help you with anything else that you might need in your real estate portfolio. Until next week, I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 4  38:13  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  38:41  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.

Discover the latest global real estate trends and untapped investment opportunities. Keith uncovers high-yield new build rental properties that can deliver impressive returns, even in today's challenging market. Don't miss your chance to build lasting wealth through strategic real estate investing. Tune in now to get the insider insights you need to get ahead.

The podcast dives into dramatic global real estate trends, with home prices skyrocketing over 10% in countries like Colombia and the Netherlands.

It also examines the alarming rise in U.S. homelessness, driven by factors like housing shortages and inflation.

To counter these challenges, the show spotlights compelling new-build rental properties that could offer attractive returns for passive investors.

GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREmarketplace.com/Coach

For access to properties or free help with a

GRE Investment Coach, start here:

GREmarketplace.com

Show Notes:

GetRichEducation.com/536

Get mortgage loans for investment property:

RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE 

or e-mail: [email protected]

Invest with Freedom Family Investments. 

You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866

Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” 

For advertising inquiries, visit:

GetRichEducation.com/ad

Best Financial Education:

GetRichEducation.com

Get our wealth-building newsletter free—

text ‘GRE’ to 66866

Our YouTube Channel:

www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation

Follow us on Instagram:

@getricheducation

Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:02  

Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, we look at global home price change, the asset class rundown, then the homelessness crisis is mega bad. It just reached new, unprecedented levels, and real estate and inflation has a lot to do with the homelessness surge today on get rich education.

 

Speaker 1  0:28  

Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, who delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show. Guess who? Top Selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com

 

Corey Coates  1:13  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:29  

Welcome to GRE from Kent Washington to Tashkent, Uzbekistan and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are listening to get rich education. One reason for a not just national, but global, rise in real estate prices is that you can't fake it. Real property is not a derivative, yeah, you can't fake it. So this really emphasizes the word real in real estate. It's not a crypto within infinite supply. It's not an NFT. You can't fake construction. You can't fake real materials put into property, from concrete to kitchen cabinets. So in the year recently ended, as we catch up to global home prices and select nations, per Fitch Ratings. Let's do that because it was not just a US centric thing. In the Netherlands, the home price change last year was 13% you had that much appreciation in the Netherlands. Colombia, 10% Mexico up 9.3% Brazil had 8% home price appreciation. Australia, 5.2% Australia has just seen year over year home price appreciation for such a long time. The UK had 5% appreciation. Spain, 5% as well. The USA, 4% just like I predicted at the end of 2023 for 2024 It did indeed come in at 4% Canada also had exactly 4% home price appreciation last year, just like the USA did. Denmark 3% Italy and Japan each at two and a half percent. Germany home prices were up just one and a half percent. And France had home prices that fell 3% China had home prices that fell 7.8% that supply versus demand thing in China, where they massively overbuilt, that's why home prices are down there. And as I unveil the depths of the USS homelessness crisis later here on the show, you will see that, yeah, those appreciated real estate prices, like I just mentioned, they have a lot to do with it. Now you might think of the youngest generation, the generation after Gen Z, as generation alpha, and that is true. However, they are no longer the youngest generation, because the babies born on New Year's Day of this year not only got to be featured in feel good local news stories. You know what? They are, also the first members of generation, beta, yeah, which will include children born from 2025 through 2039 so that is the future and the future demographic that's going to demand housing. But first of all, let's look at a year that was yes for years here on the show, we have our asset class rundown shortly after most quarters end, and certainly after a year ends. And today is no different, and this is because at times you've got to compare real estate with the other investment options that are out there. We now have music to play for our asset class rundown feature each time for today and. Future shows. And I know the GRE sound engineer has got to like this. He's also a DJ dropit, Vedrand. Here is GRE 's asset class rundown for the 12 months of last year, residential real estate values were up 4% per the NARS. Single Family existing home price, like I said earlier, single family rents up about 2% per core logic, apartment rents pretty flat, down six tenths of 1% for the year per apartment list, office buildings were down in value 9% the 30 year fixed rate mortgage. It started last year at 6.6% everyone, I mean, everyone, thought that they would go lower, but nope, they ended at 6.9% a little higher. That's per Freddie Mac survey. The s5&p 100 index was up over 23% topping out at 6100 last year. That is the first time the s&p has been up 20% plus in back to back years since 1998 and the s&p is meant to represent 500 companies, but it has become so concentrated due to the rise of the Magnificent Seven stocks that its effective diversification is less than 60 stocks. Morgan Stanley just announced that they expect the SP500, 100 returns to be flat for the next decade due to lofty valuations. Do you know that since 2000 gold has outperformed the s&p last year, gold shot up from about $2,000 peaked near $2,800 and then ended up about 30% for last year, the yield on the 10 year T note was up 63 basis points last year, basically rising from four up to 4.6% by year end. What that means is that that signals higher inflation expectations. Bitcoin up an astounding 111% to end last year around 95k and it topped out at an all time high of 108k oil up just 2% to 72 bucks and a wild card for you. Through October, Bible sales were up 22% compared to the same period versus the previous year. That is GRE 's asset class rundown. It was. 

 

This is get rich education. Let's drop back and do some learning before I update you on housing and the homelessness crisis. Now, a lot of Americans don't really know history that well, and not very many have a good financial education either. But you know, it is quite possible that even the next person you spot in a Trader Joe's aisle has heard of Adam Smith in his landmark 1776 book The Wealth of Nations. Did you know that Adam Smith is the one credited with actually inventing the very concept of supply and demand? Yeah, Adam Smith, a Scotsman is credited with that. He is known as the father of modern economics. You might have already known that. Well, of course, supply versus demand seems to be a more relevant concept than usual. Here with the housing shortage crisis, Adam Smith, he proposed the idea of what he called an invisible hand, that is the tendency of free markets to regulate themselves using competition, supply and demand and self interest, a Darwinian sort of struggle. Really, did you know that he also created the concept of gross domestic product? Yeah, prior to Adam Smith's work, most people considered a nation's wealth based on the amount of gold and silver reserves that they had stored. But Adam Smith said no, it's more about productivity quantified in this GDP in a lot of his work. It also discusses the evolution of human society from a hunter stage with no property rights and no fixed residences, to nomadic agriculture with shifting residences. And then the next stage after that is a feudal society, where laws and property rights are established to protect privileged classes. And finally, that modern society is characterized by laissez faire or free markets, so a good chunk of Adam Smith's work revolved around real estate. Now, the history of economics like that is a phrase that sounds boring. Maybe it is to some people, but as an investor, the least that you should know about Adam Smith's landmark book The Wealth of Nations from the year 1776 is that to review, he invented the supply demand concept. He created the GDP concept, and he championed free markets. That's something you're going to appreciate knowing in your investor life. And also supply demand, as I discussed that in the homelessness problem shortly. 

 

we are a real estate show, and, you know, I just don't hear other real estate shows talk about, well, the unfortunate, I guess, absence of real estate in an increasing number of people's lives now, even if you have a home, learn about how homelessness is gonna make your life worse, too. In fact, it already has. I'm not sure if you've noticed, I will get into that as well. First listen to these two spots, freedom, family investments for an eight to 10% return on your liquid capital and Ridge lending group, they specialize in income property loans. They can really help you, and I would know, because I use them both my self. I'm Keith Weinhold. This is get rich education. Here you go.

 

Oh, geez, the national average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings, so your bank is getting rich off of you. You've got to earn way more, or else you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work with minimum risk, your cash generates up to a 10% return and compounds year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25k you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back. Their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And you know how I'd know, because I'm an investor in this myself earn 10% like me and GRE listeners are. Text family to66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text family to 66866 

 

Hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine, at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage, you can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com

 

Ken McElroy  12:41  

this is Rich Dad advisor, Ken McElroy. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  12:57  

Welcome back. You're listening to get rich education Episode 536, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, it is bad. America just hit a record high homelessness number, and it is up double digits, over 18% in just one year. It is even worse when we look at family homelessness and the rise in that and gosh, get this unaccompanied youth homeless, meaning like a 15 year old kid homeless and drifting by themselves. And this is all in the most powerful nation in the world. And even if you have a home. Homelessness is gonna make your life worse, too. We'll also look at how Trump wants to address this. It is major. And finally, are there any solutions to the homelessness crisis in America today? Well, there are now over 771,000 homeless in America, that's up from 653k just last year. And yes, the homeless can be hard to count, but as long as the methodology stays the same, I mean, there you go with the 18% increase. And here's the thing from all the years, from 2007 to 2023, all 16 of those years, we only saw a total increase of 19% during that entire span, and now 18% in just one year this latest year. I mean, talk about exponential and accelerating homelessness growth. And before I tell you about why this is happening, let's get a better idea of the gravity of this sad situation here, and this is all from HUD's newly released annual homelessness assessment report to Congress among subgroups families with children saw the biggest increase as. At 39% year over year. You think that's sad, but consider how sad this is. Unaccompanied homeless children, they're up 10% in just a year, and that was only up 3.4% all of the previous 16 years combined. Veterans are the only group to see a decrease, and the number of homeless people over 65 so we're talking seniors here that is expected to almost triple by 2030 that is just five years away, and it is just widespread too. I mean, nearly no US geography is immune from this spike in homelessness, from Florida to Maine to California to Alaska. Now, even if you have a home, the shoes of that are pretty good, if you're listening to me, you know, why does this even make your life worse? Well, of course, first of all, homelessness can make your city blighted. But beyond that, just think about how many ways it's just changing your week in and week out routine. I mean, have you noticed, like, just take, for example, when you or I walk into some grocery stores anymore. I mean, I notice how different things are than they were just say, five years ago. I mean, you've got to notice some of these things now, more often than there was just a few years ago, there's an armed guard when you walk into a store near the entrance. Well, someone is paying for that security, whether it's the store passing the price along to you, or whether it's a government or municipality paying that, well, that's where your tax money goes. And what about when you're shopping the aisles of a supermarket, or, say, CVS? Well, now even kind of moderately priced items like bottles of moisturizer, they are under lock and key behind a Plexiglas case. That's inconvenient while you're shopping if you need to use the bathroom, oh, now you need to go get a key or learn the door code to access the bathrooms. That's inconvenient when you're done and as you walk out of the store now, they are more likely to have an attendant that checks your receipts on the way out, and this is just one example at the supermarket. I mean, so many of your patterns are changing due to poor people getting poorer, and the homelessness crisis, if you're in a rural area, it probably affects you less. But just take a look around and notice the change. We're not talking about the change from your parents era, but just in your own life over the past, say, three to five years, homelessness is not good for an area's crime rate either. I mean, it is not good to have desperate people, hungry people, these people have nothing to lose if you're homeless and you commit a crime and go to jail. Hey, that might be an upgrade for some people now you've got a warm, clean place to stay in jail. So now that you and I understand more about why this even affects you and I let's talk about why is homelessness growing at this alarming rate, well, higher prices for real estate, which really accelerated in 2021 and they are not going to relent. As I've said elsewhere, home prices are not going to go down in a meaningful way anytime soon as just three weeks ago. Here on our forecast episode, I forecast another 5% of national home price appreciation this year. And it's not just higher prices, it's higher rents. Rents really started taking off in 2021 as well. Well. Higher rents, that means more evictions, and an eviction is the start of homelessness for a lot of people. And a third reason for this surge in homelessness is just that overall lack of housing. I have covered that extensively elsewhere. Yes, the housing supply crisis, and as I'm known for saying, the housing crash already occurred. Did you miss it? It was a supply crash that occurred about five years ago, and a lot of agencies think we're under supplied by 3.7 million housing units. Now, when you look at the new HUD supplied map of homelessness by state, you can very much see that it is about housing, because those regions with the highest home prices generally have the most homelessness. We're talking about the Northeast, the West Coast and Hawaii. And the fourth reason for the homelessness surge is that, of course, inflation started accelerating about four years ago, and people just cannot make ends meet anymore. CPI inflation peaked at 9.1% back. In June of 2022 and year over year, prices are still going up 3% today. Prices are not going down. They're just rising at a slower rate. And of course, inflation hurts the poor and actually helps the wealthy, exacerbating the inequality Canyon the wealthy have assets. Those assets float up in value with inflation and the prices at the grocery store are just a tiny part of a wealthy person spending. But the poor don't own assets that float up with the inflation and higher grocery prices and things like electric bills, well, they comprise a big part of a poor person's income. And fifthly, the massive arrival of immigrants pushed up homeless numbers these past, oh, three or so years. And it remains to be seen how many of those people really get deported. And you know, a sixth reason for homelessness. It's not something new, it's what I'll call all of these background reasons that have been there for decades and are not going away, like how a medical emergency can even drain a middle class person's savings and things like ongoing substance abuse. I mean, drug users often cannot stay employed. So there you have it. What was that? Six big reasons that I've identified for surging homelessness now let's see what Donald Trump has to say and understand that, due to last June Supreme Court decision, Trump now has got more power to clear out encampments and make life for the homeless more difficult, opening the door now to be criminally charged for trespassing and illegal camping. I mean, you really don't want to be homeless today as part of what Trump calls his agenda 47 his plan to tackle homelessness. Here is his preamble. 

 

Donald Trump  21:57  

Our once great cities have become unlivable, unsanitary nightmares surrendered to the homeless, the drug addicted and the violent and dangerously deranged. We're making many suffer for the whims of a deeply unwell few, and they are unwell. Indeed, the homeless have no right to turn every park and sidewalk into a place for them to squat and do drugs. Americans should not have to step over piles of needles and waste as they walk down a street in a beautiful city, or at least once beautiful city, because they've changed so much over the last 10 years. 

 

Keith Weinhold  22:40  

So that's the problem. Here's the solution. I'll boil down the meat of the Trump agenda, 47 homeless statement to just the most salient 40 seconds for you here. Just listen to this, and as you listen in closely, note that this is not a housing first plan for the homeless. Instead, it's treatment first.

 

Donald Trump  23:03  

Under my strategy, working with states, we will ban urban camping wherever possible. Violators of these bans will be arrested, but they will be given the option to accept treatment and services if they're willing to be rehabilitated. Many of them don't want that, but we'll give them the option. We will then open up large parcels of inexpensive land, bring in doctors, psychiatrists, social workers and drug rehab specialists, and create tent cities where the homeless can be relocated and their problems identified. But we'll open up our cities again, make them livable and make them beautiful.

 

Keith Weinhold  23:43  

Okay, it's not housing first, because, see, he wants to ban urban camping, something that parallels the Supreme Court decision. What this is not is that it is not giving the homeless hotels in the city, like some cities have recently done, converting their hotels into homeless shelters. Instead, this is designating large parcels of cheap land for tent cities, but outside the urban core, like in a big grassy lot, and then bringing in social workers and rehab specialists for them, and that way, his solution is that this city is free of homeless people, and really that is the crux of Trump's plan. But what are some other solutions here? And these are now my insights, not Trump's, that is, build more housing. That's really simple. I mean, this will naturally slow down, accelerating home prices and spiking rents, and we've got to relax regulation and zoning. We had a zoning expert, Nolan gray on the show here last year. Some scholars believe that we should just eliminate zoning in America completely. And one. One way to relax regulation is to Gosh, revisit some of these over the top safety concerns. I mean, look, it increases the cost of the most basic entry level housing when every home needs to have all these thick, fire rated doors and smoke detectors all over the place, and carbon monoxide detectors everywhere, and GFCI electrical outlets all over the place. I mean, hey, it sounds kind of funny to say out loud, but all this stuff contributes to making affordable housing impossible. And another solution is that you've got to kill nimbyism in a lot of cases, yes, that not in my backyard. Ism, you know, a person can act like they're all pro development, and like they're all free market, and they want to have their home built just how they want it, where they want it, but you know what, as soon as their home was built, they don't want others moving near them, yeah, somehow the free market's not so great anymore, okay? And they sure don't want apartment buildings nearby. Well, that is what we need, allowing taller structures to be built. That is called up zoning. It doesn't have to be a gigantic apartment building either. We need more, mmm, properties, multi families, missing middle. That means building more two, three and four unit structures in single family neighborhoods, duplexes, triplexes, fourplexes, because a lot of those can be built so that they look like single family homes. But yet it's something affordable and it helps with density. Another solution to deal with homelessness is to, of course, bring down inflation. The government needs to stop printing, say, $1 trillion to pay for a program, whether that's sending aid to foreign nations or whatever that program is. When more dollars are created like that, it debases the currency everyone else is holding on to, including your dollars, and it makes everyone from landlords to grocers have to raise their prices. And you know, here's the funny thing in the last election for president that we had last year, well, that administration got voted out of office, and many say that the number one reason was due to high inflation, but yet, look at what they voted for with the incoming administration. Everyone expects higher inflation. So there's a real paradox there. 

 

On our YouTube channel, you can watch videos of me going out outdoors and interviewing the homeless. In fact, I'm surprised at how many homeless let me into their tents, and they wanted to show me their makeshift shelters and tell me about their life. I mean, that's kind of the good news. They were open. They were friendly people. I think they really wanted that to get exposed, because they were hoping that people would see that to come do something for them. I think that's why they've been so open with me. So that was good on the flip side, oh gosh. One thing that they have in common is that they all seemingly want to blame somebody else for the condition that they're in other than themselves, like the government or including telling me that landlords are greedy. But it really is fascinating to see from our get rich education YouTube channel, which is different content from this show. Just search the word homeless there on the get rich education YouTube channel and you can see it. 

 

Hey, I want to ask you something. What is your on ramp to real estate investing? Like, how did you approach it? Or how did you get into it? I mean, mine was as a disgruntled employee. That's it. I didn't come from a complimentary professional place. I mean, that's how I became an investor, and there was nothing wrong with my job position. Specifically, I worked with good people and everything. In fact, I had an easy and safe job, and it paid a little bit well. But, you know, safe is not the place to be. Safety is the opposite of freedom. As an employee, you know, I could see that 401 K type plans. They were designed so that you don't get income from them until you're old. It's a salary reduction plan all those working years as well. Well, no wonder that your employer encourages participation in them. That way they're going to keep you working as an employee until retirement, because that's when they're designed to generate income. But see my point here, really is that I did not have a complimentary skill set to real estate investing, and if you do, it can be to your advantage. So you know what I mean. Let's take a couple of friends of. The show here, Robert Helms, host of the terrific real estate guys radio show. He came from a real estate agent family. His dad was an agent. Well, that can help you find deals. How about Ken McElroy, another frequent guest on the show here, very successful real estate investor. Well, he was a property manager before he became a real estate investor, totally complementary skill set. And by the way, two months ago in New Orleans, I was invited to participate in a collective inner circle mastermind group session that Robert and Ken help run. That was cool, but getting back to complementary skill sets, Michael Becker, a former guest here on the show, he was a lender, so he got to see the paperwork of all these successful investors. So he became one himself. I mean, as a lender, you keep seeing savvy investors leverage themselves with debt and then do cash out refinances, a tax free windfall event, all while they keep the asset too well. He wanted to get in on some of that. And I also know real estate investors that started out as handymen, okay, a hands on trade that can totally help when you're starting out as a real estate investor. So do you have a complimentary skill set that can help make you a successful real estate investor. If you don't, then don't despair, because you know what? I don't have one myself. I was just a former employee that wanted something else. I don't have a complimentary skill set to real estate investing. No transferable professional skill. Instead of that, I just became a reader, but not a massive reader. Of course, I was a learner before I was a teacher. I enjoyed learning this stuff, and I also got a good grasp on the numbers and how that works. But importantly, my advantage was I take action, I just keep adding property to my portfolio. You just got to keep doing that, regardless of what's happening in the larger economy or what prices are or what interest rates are.

 

 And as you know, last week, I discussed the advantages of owning and building with brand new build rental property today, and you know, new build and these build to rent properties, those are things that that really wasn't even available when I started out investing. Well, it wasn't. I mean, with new build, oh, your maintenance repair costs are going to be low. You tend to attract a high quality tenant that also tends to stay for a while. Insurance costs tend to be lower on new build. And there's a bigger advantage than all of that in the market cycle right now that I'll get into shortly. Well, historically, the long run average. Do you have any idea what proportion of homes for sale are new build homes? Any guess, like, what share of those homes are new? It's only about one in eight. Yeah, the Census Bureau and the NAR tell us that it's 13% historically. Okay, well, what do you think it is today? Well, today, that number is up. Existing homeowners, they're not selling those homes aren't getting on the market as often due to the lock in effect, and we have to add supply. So in order to do that, we are building more new there's just no other way to bring it to market. Well, today, the proportion of new build homes for sale among all homes for sale is fully double that, at 26% although we're still undersupplied of homes in the US by about 30% you know there are pockets where they've overbuilt with new builds, including in Florida and Texas. So the time could really be right to expand your income property portfolio in one of those places, because builders that we work with at GRE marketplace are really willing to give you a deal now you've got them right where you want them if you're looking for a deal. How does a four and three quarter percent interest rate sound? Yes. Rates on non owner occupied property are about eight right now. They're about seven on owner occupied property, but we've got builders willing to buy your rate down to 4.75% and they're also offering one year of free property management and three months of rent guarantee protection in case your property is not occupied right away. The first one is a brand new build duplex in Inverness, Florida, two beds, two baths, each side, price of 420k projected rent from both sides at $2,830 and the size is 2100 square feet. I mean the. That sounds like it could make your cash flow thin, until you consider that 4.75% fixed mortgage rate the property tax is about one and a half percent and insurance get this projected at just $1,155 a year for an entire new build duplex, and now you might ask, what could the rate of return be on this Florida duplex new build? Well, I projected 5% appreciation for this year. New builds tend to appreciate better than existing property, but let's just use 5% if you have a 25% down payment, that's four to one leverage. So you've got a 20% return on your money. And let's just keep it conservative. When we look at monthly cash flow, that results in a 5% cash on cash return. Add that to your 20% leverage appreciation, you're up to a 25% ROI already. Add in the fact that your tenant is paying down your principal for you by $405 every month. That's 4860 annually, divided by your 105k down payment. That means you've got another four and a half percent return here. Let's just call it four. You're up to a 29% total ROI we haven't even added in yet, your tax depreciation benefit, and now you're up to a return in the mid 30s. Finally, your inflation profiting benefit on your fixed amortizing debt, and you are well into the 40s for a percent return on an annual basis. And of course, most of these are only projections. It could disappoint you at 30 or less, still a nice return, or it could over perform at 50% or more. I mean, this right here is how wealth is built. I mean, this is how you do something that disrupts your entire family tree that was the new build duplex. Then I'll share one other one with you. Here from GRE marketplace. Is a single family rental. This one is in Locust Grove, Georgia. Gosh, it looks really good in the photo here with a two car garage and some brick facing, its price is 339k rent is 2350 The size is 2164 square feet, so only a little bigger than the duplex here in this new build, Georgia, single family rental, four beds, two baths, beautiful looking new construction on the inside, open floor plan, stainless steel appliances, I can't tell whether the floor is LVP or wood laminate, but it's got a flooring type that's resilient, that tenants like, and your rate of return is going to be similar to the duplex ROI that I laid out, though probably not quite as high as the duplex. I mean, with these interest rate buy downs, these could very well be the property types where, in just five years time, maybe even as little as two or three years time after owning them, you look back and you consider how opportunistic you work in this part of the market cycle where there are now more new builds that you can choose from, and a builder was willing To make you a deal to keep their product moving, because they build a little too much in some pockets of Florida, for example. So yes, these and more like them are available, and there are more in Florida, Georgia, Alabama and a number of other states. And you know, something I don't think I shared with you earlier, it's convenient. You can get a spot with one of our GRE investment coaches right on their calendars, you can look at their calendar and pick a date and time that's convenient for you. For a free coaching session, they will learn about you. They'll let you know where the real deals are, if they're right for you at all, all you've got to do is visit GRE marketplace.com, and click on the free investment coaching area. There you are with some real opportunities and an actionable resource. Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 2  39:17  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively you

 

Keith Weinhold  39:45  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get rich, education.com

 

 

Keith discusses the pros and cons of investing in single-family rentals versus apartment buildings.

He highlights that less than 10% of U.S. building materials are imported, reducing the impact of tariffs.

Single-family rentals offer better tenant quality, lower vacancy rates, and higher appreciation potential. They also have lower financing costs and are more divisible. 

Conversely, apartment buildings offer economies of scale and lower per-unit maintenance costs.

He emphasizes the importance of owning more property, especially new-builds, which offer lower insurance premiums and attractive financing options

Work with expert investment coaches to find the best off-market deals and maximize your returns. 

GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREmarketplace.com/Coach

For access to properties or free help with a

GRE Investment Coach, start here:

GREmarketplace.com

Show Notes:

GetRichEducation.com/535

Get mortgage loans for investment property:

RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE 

or e-mail: [email protected]

Invest with Freedom Family Investments. 

You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866

Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” 

For advertising inquiries, visit:

GetRichEducation.com/ad

Best Financial Education:

GetRichEducation.com

Get our wealth-building newsletter free—

text ‘GRE’ to 66866

Our YouTube Channel:

www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation

Follow us on Instagram:

@getricheducation

Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, talking about how most home building materials are US sourced and not affected by tariffs, the little understood pros and cons of investing in apartment buildings versus single family rental homes, then what really makes sense to invest in in this particular era and more today on Get Rich Education.

 

Speaker 1  0:28  

since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show, guess who? Top Selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com

 

Corey Coates  1:13  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:29  

Welcome GRE from Tallahassee, Florida to Waxahachie, Texas and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are inside, G, R, E, we are here for you every Monday, without fail, 52 weeks a year, and we have never replayed an old episode either, always original content. Thanks for being here, but you're not here for me. You are here for you as another year dawns before we get into the meaty real estate content of today's show, including single family rentals versus apartments. Take a moment to check in with your own goals. Maybe you think about that is just buying your first investment property, or maybe you own 83 rental units, and you're looking to get to 100 this year. But no matter really real estate is just the fuel for your goal. It's probably not the end goal itself is your goal to have the time freedom to watch all of your kids basketball games this year. What about beyond this year? Are you really dreaming big enough you've got to question yourself on that sometimes, for example, forget flying first class. What if you want to own your own private jet, like Taylor Swift's luxurious Dassault 7x jet for $54 million? how about real estate fueling a dream that's even bigger than that? Yet, last month, the Philadelphia Eagles received the NFL approval for the sale of an 8% interest of the team to two different family investors. Okay, do you find say that interesting owning part of a major pro sports team. And by the way, what would something like that look like for you? I mean, do you even have the headspace to conceive of such a thing? It's good to ask yourself questions like this. Sometimes that sale was based on a valuation of the team of up to $8.3 billion and yet, after all that, the Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie, he still maintains complete control of the team. Okay, so if each of the two family investors got a 4% interest at this valuation, that is up to a $332 million investment for each family. Maybe that could be a Weinhold the family goal. We'll see about that one. And you know, when it comes to making yourself a bigger you and dreaming a bigger dream, I like to listen to what the doers say. I found it so interesting in a Jeff Bezos interview at the deal book Summit, Bezos said it's human nature to overestimate risk and underestimate opportunity. Bezos also said entrepreneurs would be well advised to try and bias against that piece of human nature, the risks are probably not as big as you perceive, and the opportunities may be bigger than you perceive. That's the end of what bezel said. I really think that that's spot on stuff. now two weeks ago, when I gave GREs national home price appreciation forecast for this year. You might remember that I said that potential Trump tariffs just don't matter as much as people think when it comes to real estate. And understanding more about why I say this, it can help you understand real estate materials and sourcing and home building in the United States, America's overwhelming majority of sourced building materials are not imported, so therefore something like a supply chain bottleneck that's more worth watching, really. It's a huge misunderstanding of the home building market to assume that most building materials come from overseas. They do not, not even 10% of residential construction building materials are imported. The National Association of Home Builders will tell you so. And really, the majority of those few imports that do come from elsewhere, they come from, Canada in the form of timber. You might have heard about that before. Now, there are some things like finishes and fixtures that get sourced from, oh, various other countries, but yeah, the biggest potential tariff expense impacting home builders would come from enacting a cost on Canadian lumber. But I and a lot of economists as well, they're pretty skeptical that the administration would really enact a tariff on a close ally like that, on Canada's raw materials. In fact, Chief Economist Lawrence Yoon of the NAR he conceded that even potential lumber tariffs, they might be given a phasing in period, and that would encourage American timber mills to fill in any production gap. It's also important to you know, remember that doors, windows, cabinets that builders utilize, they are typically produced within us, borders. Windows, doors, cabinets made domestically, unless it's something that relies on raw materials that are imported, they ought to be little affected by tariffs. One example is that kitchen sinks now they largely went from being sourced in China, then Malaysia, then Indonesia, and one main customer is now talking about sourcing them out of Mexico or the Dominican Republic. So there are a few things that less than 10% that's imported. Another imported item is flooring, which moved away from China, went to India for a while, went a little bit back to Brazil, and now more is being sourced by Ecuador. But the important thing to remember is that these are outlier components. Not even 10% of residential construction building materials are imported. That's what you want to remember, concrete, us, rebar, us. So you know, as a real estate investor, you can feel good that as your portfolio grows, each one of your properties was chiefly built with us, labor that you already knew, but it is also built predominantly with us, materials as well. How likely are single family rental investors to say that they want to buy more investment property this year. Well, year ago, 60% of them said that. Today it is up to 76% yes, that many say that they are either likely or very likely to buy single family rental property in the next 12 months, and that same group that was surveyed is also unlikely to sell their property, and they also said that they are more likely to raise the single family rent this year. And all this is according to a joint lending one resi club survey. However, most fall in the range of raising the rent between just 1% and 6% this year, so pretty modest rent increases. In fact, in every region of the US, the majority of single family rental investors describe their rental market as either strong or very strong. But can you guess the weakest region? Okay, this region is the one that still has a majority of landlords that say that their market is strong, but yet the weakest of them all is the South West, and that is largely due to over building and in the survey, what expense increased the most the past 12 months? Well, number one is that 37% of respondents these landlords said it is still insurance premiums. Second place was that 23% say property taxes are increasing the most. And then third was. And 21% say that maintenance and repair costs have increased the most for them. So the top three expenses cited expense increases that is in order, are insurance, property tax, and then maintenance and repairs. And a few weeks ago, I discussed with you, you might remember about how upgrading or remodeling a unit that helps you in at least five different ways simultaneously. Let me talk about this, since I touched on raising the rent and a little comprehension test here. Do you remember what those five ways are? the five ways your help by upgrading or remodeling a unit. And no, these are not the famed real estate pays five ways when you upgrade a vacant unit for rent, or at times, you can even actually upgrade a unit while the tenant is still occupying the property, if it's not a disruptive upgrade type. Okay, I mean, sometimes that tenant can be appreciative that they're getting an upgrade while they live there, but the five ways that upgrading a unit helps you are, first, well, obviously it helps you be able to get more rent in cash flow. Secondly, you tend to attract a higher quality tenant. And then in a five plus unit apartment building, it also increases your noi, therefore a greater overall property value. Fourth is pride of ownership. And then fifth is that higher rents help you offset those erstwhile higher operating expenses. 

 

And here's the thing, when you get free help from one of our GRE investment coaches, like you can do at GRE marketplace.com those properties are either already extensively renovated or they are completely brand new build. So because of that fact, this means that from day one, your rent income is already optimized. You already have the best chance of landing a quality tenant, and you get some sense of having a pride of ownership. And all of those things, they're already optimized for you. You don't have to tinker with anything else, because those GRE marketplace properties, more than 95% of them are either renovated or new build. I would say, using properties conducive to the BRRRR method, they would be the few exceptions there and on GRE marketplace, you can find lower cost renovated single family homes, up to million dollar apartment buildings, either new or renovated. And another pro tip here to help you with something actionable in a premium place to source your growing income property portfolio. You've heard me mention them before, is mid south home buyers, but I'll tell you more about what's going on with them. Yeah, they're an especially good place to add your portfolio if you either haven't invested outside of your home market before, or you don't have as much liquidity right now, because their prices are just 100 to 180k they are still in that range. And yes, that 100 to 180k that is indeed the entire capital price for the asset. So that means down payment and closing costs being about 25% therefore it's just 25k to 45k Yes, you can still get started for that little with a wonderfully renovated property in either Memphis or Little Rock. Those are the two markets where mid south home buyers operates, and they are some of the most investor advantage markets in the entire nation. And then the US is one of the most investor advantage markets in the world. And last month, I met and spoke with a 19 year old guy that lives in Dallas, and he just bought his first ever investment property from mid south home buyers in Memphis. And in fact, it was his goal to have his first income producing property at age 18, and he bought it the day before he turned 19, so he barely met that goal. But yeah, they are total pros at mid south they've been doing it for over two decades. They say that they are the nation's highest rated turnkey property provider. They might even be the first provider in the nation, if you like. They also manage the property for you, and their property managers are really aware that their investors, like you, seek a return on investment, so they often have a line a waiting list. To get their properties. Last I checked the line at mid south had shortened globally attractive cash flows an A plus rating with a better business bureau, and they've now renovated over 5000 houses. And over there, they do a lot of things with their management that you just wish every provider would do, there is zero markup on maintenance. Their average occupancy rate is almost 99% average renter stays more than three and a half years. And you know that three and a half years, that duration of tenancy that could be poised to go even higher now, with the affordability crisis for these want to be first time homebuyers now, most of what mid south has are single family rentals, quite a few duplexes too. Every home has brand new components, a full one year warranty, bumper to bumper, new 30 year roofs. And then the really important part expect a high quality renter that they screen and find in place for you. So let me give you an example of two real properties. And now, if these two aren't under contract already, they probably soon will be, since I'm mentioning them. And of course, duplexes cost more than single family rentals. This duplex is in Jacksonville, Arkansas. It's just northeast of Little Rock. It is 913 and 915 Ruth Ann drive, the combined rent from both sides is $1,775 the all in cost is about 210k 2099, in total, it's 1600 square feet. So 800 square feet each side, it's two bed, one bath each side. The Property taxes are really low, $1,300 a year, really nicely renovated with good quality materials. I mean, I love owning properties like this all day. So that's a duplex in the Little Rock market. Another one from mid south is this, Memphis single family rental. The address is 400 Bonita drive. It is $1,200 rent on a $148,100 purchase price. Gosh, those numbers work. This single family rental is three bed one and a half bath, 1164 square feet. Gosh. Again, low property tax in these regions, just $1,120 annually. All right, so that property tax rate is just three quarters of 1% of the purchase price. So really low on a national basis, a big backyard, eat in kitchen, separate laundry room, walking distance to schools. I mean, this is the type of property a tenant family could live in for five or 10 years, beautifully renovated. And I'm bringing these up because these are all at prices that Metro New Yorkers or coastal Californians can barely believe. So each property has hundreds of dollars of projected positive monthly cash flow. Each one increases your income 2000 to $5,000 per year. And I have personally toured mid south home buyers office in Memphis and their properties in person in Memphis. And I've seen their properties in each stage. I walked a tear down that they were doing, and I saw all the debris in the backyard. And I have seen their hardwood floors shine inside newly renovated property that I walked with both Terry and Liz from over there at Mid South. She is a pretty popular and extremely knowledgeable woman there. Liz, you can ask for her or one of her team members about getting on the list over there. Yes, these are 100k to 180k already renovated. Yes, that's truly the all in price, and they are in decent, working class pride of ownership neighborhoods in Memphis, Tennessee and Little Rock, Arkansas. And a lot of people get their start in investing there, I suspect it's now in the hundreds, with the number of GRE listeners that have bought from them. But even veteran investors, with dozens of units, they scoop up properties from them due to the low prices, some even pay gasp, all cash, yes, no leverage for them. And mid south homebuyers has investor tours monthly, where they load everyone on a bus, and you can check out the properties, because they are really proud of what they offer there coming up next, I'm comparing single family rental investments to apartments. But yeah, right there. That was a pro tip that really ought to help you out. Expect cash flow from day one. A 19 year old is doing it. You can start yourself at mid south homebuyers.com. More next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education. 

 

Oh geez, the national average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings, so your bank is getting rich off of you. You've got to earn way more, or else you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work with minimum risk, your cash generates up to a 10% return and compounds year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25k you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back. Their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And you know how I'd know because I'm an investor in this myself, earn 10% like me and GRE listeners are. Text family to 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text family to 66866. 

 

Hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine, at Ridge lending group NMLS, 420056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com

 

Kathy Fettke  21:55  

you this is the real wealth network's Kathy Fettke, and you are listening to The always valuable get rich education with Keith Weinhold.

 

Keith Weinhold  22:12  

Keith, welcome back for the 535th week in a row you are listening to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and I'm really grateful to have you here if you self manage your properties. One software that can really simplify your life is called Hemlane, H, E, M, as in Mary, l, a, n, e, Hemlane. You might have heard about it before. I now know quite a few people that use it. It's been getting some really good reviews. You can manage your properties from anywhere, even through your phone. And Hemlane has got some really good integrations, and now it's more than just investors like you that are using it. Agents and property managers are using Hemlane too, from advertising to tenant screening to maintenance and repair and accounting, and I just learned that they recently got all of the state specific lease agreements integrated on their platform as well. That's why it was on top of mind. If you prefer to self manage and you want to make it easier, what you can do is book a free demo and they show you how it works. Over there, it's just hemlane.com where you can do that if you like. Let them know that I told you about it. 

 

Before I share something else actionable with you, let's do some learning and talk about apartment buildings and single family rental properties, and compare the two, some pros and cons of each. And perhaps the most obvious advantage of apartment buildings is their economies of scale. A 12 unit apartment only has one roof to maintain and one insurance policy to maintain. Another efficiency is that shared common areas and plumbing and HVAC systems that can lower your individual maintenance costs on a per unit basis as well in those apartments. And right now, at this time in the mid 2020s, decade, another advantage of apartments is that this time in the cycle is where values are just about bottoming out. Apartment buildings in a lot of national regions have fallen 20% fallen, 25% or even fallen 30% or more from their highs that were seen two to three years ago, and that's due to those higher interest rates. And the reason that this is an advantage for apartments is that you might be able to buy low, buy the dip, apartment cap rate. Have settled in the mid five range. Now, well located Class A has dropped back into the fours. Long time investors already know about some of the advantages, but you know, even some long time investors, they often overlook some of the advantages that single family rental properties have over apartments. So let me share some of those with you. Now, as you know, I started off with my first two investment properties, both being four Plex buildings, and then after that, I added larger apartment buildings and single family rental properties, and I still do buy and own single family rentals. So let me tell you about why I love them. They might have the best risk adjusted return anywhere even after 2008 great recession. Those that bought single families for cash flow persevered with single families. You get a better quality of tenant than you do in apartments. They take care of the premises. They tend to be in a better neighborhood. Single families tend to appreciate better over time, and are also more likely to be in a better school district. Single families have a retention advantage. Tenants stay longer, and that creates less vacancy and expense, and the reason that they do stay longer are those aforementioned neighborhood and school district characteristics, common areas. You know, single family rentals, they don't have any common areas that you have to clean and maintain. I think I pointed that out to you before, because that's like an overlooked profit drag that I missed when I bought my first larger apartment building. Yeah, apartments have hallways and stairs and laundry rooms and commonal door grounds that a custodian has got to service. Single families have an advantage when it comes to utility payments, because tenants often pay all of the utilities and they even care for the lawn. The larger the apartment building is, the more likely that you are going to be the one paying the utility costs. Then there's divisibility. What if you've got a property that's underperforming out there and it just isn't meeting your expectations? Well, if you had, say, 10 single family rental homes, you can sell off the one or the two that aren't performing, but yet, with a 10 unit apartment building, you've either got to keep them all or sell them all. It is not divisible. What about fire and pestilence, something a lot of people don't talk about? I mean fire and pests. They are more easily controlled in single family rentals, even if you're adequately insured, these conditions often affect multiple units and families. They can spread in an apartment building. Financing is a huge one income single family homes, they have both lower mortgage interest rates than apartments and typically lower down payment requirements than apartments. I think you already know you can secure 10 single family rental loans, single 20 if you're married at the best rates and terms through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac with just 20% down payments, you can even go less than 20% on non owner occupied in some cases, but apartments rarely, if ever, have 30 year fixed rate terms like single family rentals do, and this right here in particular, that really started bringing down a lot of apartment investors, beginning in 2022 and 2023 when their interest rates reset much higher, doubling, or even more than doubling. How about vacancy rate? It is true that if your single family is vacant, then your vacancy rates 100% if your say four Plex has one vacancy, well then your vacancy rates only 25% but yeah, the same is true if you own four single family rentals and one is vacant. How about management? If you hire professional management, your manager would likely rather deal with higher quality, single family residence. And if you're self managing, this is a demographic of people that you would likely rather handle yourself. Then there's supply and demand, there just absolutely still are not enough low cost, single families that make the best rentals nationally, demand still exceeds supply. That's the opposite condition for apartments, and this is something that's going to continue in the short and the medium term market risk that is an overlooked criterion. You've got to keep your properties filled with rent paying tenants that have jobs. If you think you'll be able to buy 10 rental units in the near future, well, your 10 unit apartment building that's only going to be in one location, and that's going to leave you exposed to just one geography's economic fortunes. But if you have 10 single families, you could have four of them in Central Florida, three of them in Fort Worth Texas, and three of them in Memphis. And you got to think about exit strategy. A lot of people don't think about this. Think about the exit before you even get in, because years down the road, when it's time to sell your income property, hopefully, after you've had years of handsome profits, and real estate pays five ways and all of that, you know what? Down the road, there is going to be a greater buyer pool for your single family rental than your apartment building. In almost every case, more buyers can afford the lower price, and unlike apartments, you even have access to a pool of buyers that might want to occupy the single family rental themselves. It might even be your current tenant that buys it, but the market and the numbers have to make sense for someone to want to buy an apartment building, but if an owner occupant buys it from you, that family doesn't have to have any numbers that make sense. So your single family rental is more liquid on your exit and professional management, that's another reason that single families can make sense. Because see single family rentals, they can be spread all over a metro area diffusely, and if you self manage, that is a lot of little trips that can get to be a hassle. But if you use a pro manager, well, they're the ones that have to manage the scattered sites. And a lot of times, managers don't charge you much more to handle your single families than they do your apartment buildings. So right now, there were a ton of advantages, a good 15 or 20 advantages there that single family rentals have over apartment buildings. And it's important I discuss them, because there are a lot of investors that don't factor all of those in. Even veteran investors tend to overlook some of those things. Again, I really like apartment buildings as well. They could very well be my second favorite investment to single family rentals, and I would like to now, with that understanding, really say something that I probably don't say quite often enough if you want to benefit from all these wealth building forces here that I've talked to on the show for for more than 10 years. You need to own more property, or get started with your first property.

 

Now I've already given you one great resource for that. And yes, what do they say? The turtle never got ahead until he stuck his neck out. Now the uncertainty, I mean uncertainty. That's just that condition that never completely abates. But in a sense, I think you can say today that the future is already here because we've got substantially more economic certainty and political certainty than we have had in recent years. The presidency was decided peacefully. Recession fears have abated. The Fed after screwing up with high inflation a few years ago, they have now engineered a soft landing, meaning lower inflation with still high employment. So now is a good time. What about real estate prices? I'll tell you something about that all of my investor life, every single property that I've ever bought, without exception, it felt aggressively priced at the time, and then, typically, it always happens when as little as one year or two years goes by, it already looked like a good decision. And I'd like to encourage you to do something else in this era, if you can swing it, buy new build property. That's something that wasn't always true. They do cost more. It's probably going to be 300k plus for a new build rental, single family home, but either way, be sure to own more property, existing or new benefit from what we talk about now. In some parts of the nation, including Florida, builders built a few too many properties, and they are willing to give you a discount for that. They might even cut the price a little and give you a rate discount, buying down discount points for you so that you can get a mortgage loan interest rate in the fives or even in the fours on new build income property right now in a volatile insurance market, new builds also have some super low insurance premiums because the property is built to today's more stringent codes. I mean, a. Just put an example out here. If you say, buy 10 rental, single family homes for $3 million total, 10 properties, 300k each. Okay, it's just 5% appreciation, which is what I projected for this year in our home price appreciation forecast. Two weeks ago, on $3 million worth of property, that's 150k per year, every year growing that you can pull out of the properties completely tax free. But to get that 150k per year tax free, you would have only had to make a 750k down payment and closing costs 25% on this that's not even counting the cash flow that the properties generate, plus your loan, of course, is simultaneously being paid down by tenants. And on top of that, inflation would just relentlessly debase your two and a quarter million dollars of fixed rate debt. Yes, all while the appreciation and the cash flow occurs, inflation debases your debt by another $67,500 every single year, and your tenant pays down some more principal on top of that. And then there are the other tax benefits too. And this is where you are massively getting ahead. All right, that was a $3 million portfolio, but if you can only do 1/10 of that own, just say one more new build, 300k single family rental, then you get 1/10 of those benefits that I mentioned, and either way, a total return on investment of 30% or more annually that is achievable. It's actually even conservative. I mean, just with the 5% appreciation, with four to one leverage, that's a 20% return just on the appreciation component alone. 

 

And our GRE investment coaches can make this real for you. They can talk to you about these properties and others, including those mortgage rate buy downs into the fives and the fours properties in investor advantage markets in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas and some others. In fact, let me give you two examples of what our investment coaches can help you with right now. This is pretty fun, actually, as I talk about these properties, because you might even end up owning the ones that I discuss right here on the show. The first of two is a brand new build, single family in Palma Coast, Florida. Gosh, it's a ranch home. Really good looking. Two car garage, is what I'm looking at here. It's 1200 square feet, three, bed, two, bath. It's called the Bing model, and it's got the type of layout that tenants really want today. I mean, your resident could stay there for a long time. $2,100, in rent for a purchase price of $289,900 I mean those numbers, along with the mortgage rate buy down to four and a half percent, plus new build insurance premiums that are going to be low. That really works today. That is really attractive there in Palm Coast, Florida. And the last one I'll mention is an older single family rental in Canton, Ohio. Yes, that's the home of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The address is 2422 6th Street, Northwest in Canton. Rent of 1225, and a purchase price of just $135,000 The size is 1036 square feet, and it is four beds, one and a half baths. The renovations really look quite good. As you recall, those benefits of buying property that's already renovated, like I discussed earlier, all for 135k in today's market. So these properties and so many more like them, that's what our investment coaches can help you with. Their service is always completely free, but first what they do is they learn a little about you, and they can then put together an entire investment real estate portfolio for you, if you like. So they'll assess and evaluate what you've got, where you want to go, what property types are conducive to aligning with your strategy, and are there any best geographies for you? And more. So it's really important to stay in touch with your coach. I mean, we might find out, for example, tomorrow, that a home builder that we work with decided to offer some massive mortgage rate buy down incentives for you because, say, they built too much. So I really encourage you to set up that touch point for the first time, or to stay in touch and see what's happening, free coaching off market opportunities, and it's easy to set up a short meeting over the phone or on zoom with an investment coach. You can do that at GRE marketplace. It really can be quite a life changing venture for you from GRE marketplace.com just click on the coaching area until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 2  40:49  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  41:09  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.

 

Discover how inflation is destroying the value of your money and eroding the ethical foundations of society. Legendary author Doug Casey reveals the insidious ways rising prices lead to social decay, unethical behavior, and the breakdown of trust. 

Learn how to protect your prosperity by shifting away from the falling dollar and into real assets like gold, real estate, and carefully selected investments. 

Don't let inflation rob you - get the insights you need to thrive in this challenging economic environment.

Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”. 

Resources:

Visit internationalman.com to read Doug Casey's weekly articles and watch his "Doug Casey's Take" videos on YouTube.

Show Notes:

GetRichEducation.com/534

For access to properties or free help with a

GRE Investment Coach, start here:

GREmarketplace.com

GRE Free Investment Coaching:GREmarketplace.com/Coach

Get mortgage loans for investment property:

RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE 

or e-mail: [email protected]

Invest with Freedom Family Investments. 

You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866

For advertising inquiries, visit:

GetRichEducation.com/ad

Best Financial Education:

GetRichEducation.com

Get our wealth-building newsletter free—

text ‘GRE’ to 66866

Our YouTube Channel:

www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation

Follow us on Instagram:

@getricheducation

Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, inflation does not mean rising prices. Inflation is an expansion of the money supply which results in rising prices, and it leads to wider societal decay and moral breakdowns in ways that you've never thought about before. It misdirects inflation frustration toward people like housing providers and grocers, we explore it today on get rich education.

 

Mid south home buyers, I mean, they're total pros, with over two decades is the nation's highest rated turnkey provider. Their empathetic property managers use your ROI as their North Star. So it's no wonder that smart investors just keep lining up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone. They're headquartered in Memphis and have globally attractive cash flows and A plus rating with a better business bureau and now over 5000 houses renovated. There's zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate, while their average renter stays more than three and a half years. Every home they offer has brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter. Remember that part and in an astounding price range, 100 to 180k. I've personally toured their office and their properties in person in Memphis, get to know Mid South. Enjoy cash flow from day one. Start yourself right now at mid south homebuyers.com that's mid south homebuyers.com

 

you know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info. Oh, geez. Today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got paywalls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text GRE to 66866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text GRE to 66 866.

 

Speaker 1  3:12  

you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  3:28  

We are the GRE from Albany, New York to New Albany, Ohio, and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. You have probably heard it been said by now that money must have three attributes. It is a store of value, a medium of exchange and a unit of account. The US Dollar does not meet the first one store of value. That's due to inflation. How is the dollar a store of value, it is not so then the dollar is a mere currency, not money. You can make the case that gold is a store of value, maybe that Bitcoin is, although it's got a short track record and it's a volatile ride the S, p5, 100, you could say that's nothing more than a store of value long term. When you understand all the drags on it, you're only treading water long term with the s, p, I've discussed that on shows earlier this year. That leaves real estate as not just a good long term, stable store a value, but when it's done right, it is the vehicle where inflation actually increases your purchasing power. And here's a new way to think about it, money is your time and energy captured in an abstracted form for the government to take out debt. They are borrowing your time and energy. Government debt is the closest thing we've ever seen to time travel.They're borrowing the collective time and energy from your future. How do you achieve time travel? You borrow human time and energy from the future currency debasement steals the time and energy of you and everyone alive today. That's why you've got to protect yourself. And what this does is that it actually increases your time preference. Yeah, the term time preference, that's something that Bitcoin authors like Dr saifedean Amos often use time preference and actually think that it's sort of a confusing term. Time preference, though, it sounds like a good thing, it's actually a bad thing. It means that you would rather consume now and over consume now instead of later. Having a high time preference means that you want to all out, ball out right now, and not consider your future. Well, that's what inflation does whenever you see the term time preference out there. I think the best way for you to remember what that means is think of it instead as a now preference. I think now preference is more intuitive than time preference. Teach me how to Dougie, yes, we've got public figure and mega popular author Doug Casey back with us today to discuss how rising prices lead to social decay and makes humans have a higher time preference resultantly, I guess that is teaching us how to Dougie. Yes, indeed, that is a reference to that, like 15 year old song, teach me how to Dougie, and we would drop some bars of that song right now. Oh, you know that me and the team here, we really want to, but we would probably have some royalty issues with that one here, and I'll tell you that is such a stupid song. Teach me how to Dougie, but at the same time, once you've heard it, the next thing that you want to do is hear it again somehow. But it's pretty likely that Doug Casey and I have some more important things to talk about. So fortunately for you, rather than discuss a 2010, rap song any further, we're going to discuss how rising prices lead to social decay.

 

Monetary inflation is even worse than you think. This era's rising prices and falling values actually lead to social decay. Villains and unethical actors are getting rewarded and they're stealing from you. We're going to discuss just how the international man himself, a legendary and generationally popular author, is back with us for a sobering look at inflation and social decay today. Hey, welcome back in. Doug Casey. 

 

Doug Casey  8:04  

Nice to talk to you, Keith. I'm speaking to you at the moment from my farm in Uruguay, which is one of the, I would say, two, most stable countries in Latin America, and one of the two or three most stable countries in the Western Hemisphere, there's a lot of real estate in the world, other than in the US. And I know that you mostly talk about real estate. I've actually done a lot of real estate too, all around the world, in the Orient and in Europe and South America, and, of course, a lot in the US and Canada. So I'm generally friendly to real estate, and it's been very, very good to me.

 

Keith Weinhold  8:44  

Well, you're truly living up to the International Man moniker again today, joining us from that small South American nation of Uruguay and Doug. Before we talk about the inflation and the social decay, what are property taxes like there in that part of Uruguay. And I know you often spend time in Buenos Aires Argentina as well. If you can talk to us in terms of the percent of the value of the property that you pay in property tax each year, which tends to be one to one and a quarter percent on an average in the United States.

 

Doug Casey  9:13  

that's right. And I think in some states like Illinois, it can go up to about 2% if I'm not mistaken, which means that you really don't own your property. If you don't pay your real estate taxes for for a year or two, you'll find out who really owns it, right? But taxes are high in South America, but generally, not too bad on real estate per se, certainly not on farmland, but farmland everywhere in the world doesn't pay much in the way of real estate taxes, and that's certainly the case here in Uruguay, and the same in Argentina, which might be worth more discussion, because Argentina is doing something that's actually unique in world history right now. And I.hope it's a story that ends well, because they're going in the right direction. But to answer your question, if you buy a condo or a house in a city in Uruguay or Argentina or most of these countries down here, you're going to pay real estate taxes, but it's less than in the US typically, like a half a percent, when they get you in South America is value added taxes, or anything you buy, including labor. In most places, you have to pay the government someplace in between 18 or 20 or 22% depending it's like a huge extra sales tax that's hidden in the cost of the item. And of course, they have income taxes down here, just as what they do in the US, approximately American levels. But on the bright side, not that I know about these things from a firsthand point of view, but these Latin American countries are kind of corrupt and not as completely grasping as the US is they're not as competent in going after you, and don't have a worldwide reach, which the US does. 

 

Keith Weinhold  11:07  

Yeah. Oh, well, that's an interesting comparison there. And yeah, Doug, a lot of Latin American nations have had high rates of inflation in both the recent past and now in a piece that you recently wrote is titled, inflation and social decay, rising prices and falling values. And here in the United States, whether it's at the grocery store or the mall or restaurants or airports or anywhere you turn, people really are finding inferior goods and services yet at higher prices. I mean, everyone sees that now. And Doug, I know that you've maintained that living standards have taken a big step, not forward, but backward, and are trending even worse. So tell us about it. 

 

Doug Casey  11:49  

Well, the way that you become wealthy is by producing more than you consume and saving the difference. That's the basic formula. Produce more than you consume and save the difference. But when the government inflates the currency, and the government's entirely at fault with it, they have the printing presses. They control the currency. It makes it very, very hard to save, and you can't get ahead. You can't build capital which you need in order to invest and become a capitalist. So inflation is the enemy of the average man, and it's the enemy of society as a whole, but some people do very well because of inflation. Why? Because in the US, it's the people in basically New York and Washington and other big cities that stand very close to the fire hydrant of money that comes out of the government, and they get to drink deeply before something trickles down to the plebs below inflation will destroy a country, and that's why in Latin America in particular, you've got very rich people who are usually connected to the government, who get that money first, and a lot of poor peasants who don't get it, and I'm afraid that the US has been going in that direction for some years. 

 

Keith Weinhold  13:08  

Well, I'm so glad Doug that you gave us the reminder that the government is the source of inflation. That's where it all begins, because people often blame the landlord for higher rents, but they blame the grocer for the higher beef prices, but the landlord in the grocer, they're only the messenger, not the source. You're absolutely right. It's a question of very bad economic education throughout the school system, all the way up to college and post grad work the butcher and the baker and the oil maker produce real goods that make your standard of living higher. They're the heroes in this scenario. The government, which prints up money through its deficits that it runs, is the villain in this and I never cease to be amazed and shocked how people look at politicians to be their saviors, right? They're heroes. They're not. They're the villains in this piece. They serve no useful purpose. And the same goes for most of these agencies that they set up, which once again, make things easier for the guys on top, that have capital, that have political connections, that can hire the lawyers, hire the accountants to twist things in their favor, makes it very hard for the little guy who can't jump over the hurdles that are put up by regulation as well as taxes as well as inflation. 

 

Tell us about how inflation erodes ethical standards. 

 

Doug Casey  14:38  

Well, that's a problem too, because if you can't trust money, the validity of contracts becomes questionable if you borrow. It's terrible in a country like Argentina, if you borrowed 100 pesos from me and only gave it back to me next year, it'd be worth half as much. But you say, Hey, here's your 100 pesos, but you're subtly cheating the person that you borrowed the money from, right? And it erodes trust. Not only that, but inflation tends to make the banking system unsound for a number of reasons. If you can't trust your bank, you really can't trust any financial institutions. So money is the lifeblood of a society. It represents everything that you want to do and want to provide for other people in the future. And if the government destroys your money, it's destroying your future life. And that erodes trust. It makes people think in terms of, I want it all, and I want it now. I'm not willing to wait, because in the future, I don't know what anything is going to be worth. So it leads to an unstable society. And in an unstable society, you don't trust anything. 

 

Keith Weinhold  15:57  

right? Well, first, I love your example of the 100 peso loan. I mean, how would one know how much interest to charge in a runaway inflationary environment? Because some people don't realize that high inflation also means more volatile levels of inflation, and banking and lending really break down. You know, Doug, I've got my own example or two about how inflation introduces unethical behavior when the big wave of inflation started to hit in 2021 and 2022 in the United States, you know my favorite cold brew bottled coffee, which I drank because it had good ingredients in it, rather than raising the price on that with inflation, they replaced their higher quality sweeteners in my cold brew coffee, like stevia and monk fruit extract with a junky sucralose sweetener, they could keep their price the same that way. They sure didn't point out that they substituted a junkier sweetener. And really this is another form of inflation called skimplation That was pretty sneaky behavior here.

 

Doug Casey  17:00  

you're absolutely correct, Keith, and this further breaks down the bonds of trust in society, because you no longer really trust that manufacturer, and that's just your one particular coffee manufacturer, but it's happening across the board with all manufacturers, so no wonder people start saying, Hey, I hate these companies. They're trying to rip me off. Well, they're not trying to rip you off. They're just trying to survive the consequences of the government debasing the currency. So we have to assign blame where it belongs. That's a very good example that you just gave. I think.

 

Keith Weinhold  17:35  

yeah. And I think another way that inflation introduces unethical behavior is say that there are two different manufacturers of wine, and they're selling their bottle of wine for $20 then the currency supply doubles. Okay, well, one manufacturer can go ahead and keep selling their $20 wine with inferior ingredients. Well over here, the honest guy, the other company, they double their price to $40 and they continue to use good quality ingredients. But what do consumers notice? They notice the price more than the ingredients. So therefore the unethical one that waters down their wine ingredients but keeps their price low actually gets rewarded and will get more business. 

 

Doug Casey  18:15  

You're right, certainly in the short run, but in the long run, inflation is going to destroy both of them, but for different reasons, inflation really destroys the basis of society itself, because it makes it so much harder to produce and you don't have any savings to consume. So money is the basis of society. When you destroy the money you're destroying the basis of society itself. 

 

Keith Weinhold  18:43  

We're talking with Doug Casey about his recent piece that you can [email protected] it'stitled inflation and social decay, rising prices and falling values. He also hosts the eponymous show, Doug Casey's take more with Doug when we come back, including how inflation leads to a more litigious society and actually creates more lawsuits. That's straight ahead. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold.

 

oh geez, the national average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings, so your bank is getting rich off of you. You've got to earn way more, or else you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work with minimum risk, your cash generates up to a 10% return and compounds year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25k

 

you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back. Their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And you know how I'd know, because I'm an investor in this myself, earn 10% like me and GRE listeners are text family to 66866, to learn about freedom, family investments, liquidity fund, on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text, family to 66866

 

Hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine, at Ridge lending group  NMLS, 42056. They provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties, they help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com That's ridgelendinggroup.com

 

Richard Duncan  20:53  

this is Richard Duncan, publisher and macro watch, listen to get rich Education with Geek Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  21:11  

Welcome back to get rich education. We're talking with legendary author Doug Casey. In fact, his classic book strategic investing broke the record for receiving the largest advance ever paid for a financial book at the time. And Doug, I know, in one of your latest pieces, you talked about how inflation actually leads to a more litigious society as well. Tell us about that.

 

Doug Casey  21:34  

The US is actually the most litigious country in the world, and it's because a company may have a hard time meeting its obligations when the currency that its obligations are denominated in turns into a floating abstraction, and if you can't fulfill your obligation, is the way you would righteously on a handshake. Might you may want to call in your lawyers to help you survive. So it percolates through all areas of society. 

 

Keith Weinhold  22:06  

Now, on top of inflation, I think there's a problem that's really in one's face today, America has a tip inflation problem where increasingly you are being asked for tips at places where you weren't beforehand. And I think a lot of that really began with COVID. Places like Subway restaurant began asking for tips even though you're standing up to order your food, and it was a way for you to show appreciation that they showed up during the pandemic. But when the pandemic waned, the tip request didn't go away. In fact, I think they've increased. So we have tip inflation on top of inflation. Doug, I recently attended a conference, and the little convenience stores inside the event site hotel, they stated that they are now cashless. Okay, so you're going to be paying with a card, and when you bring your groceries up to the counter, there's a little screen, and they ask you two to three questions. You have to answer two to three prompts if you don't want to leave a tip. This is just at a convenience store. This holds up the line. It's a little frustrating. It wears me out. They say humans can only make 35,000 decisions a day. I just spent three or four of them saying I don't want to leave a tip for this sandwich that I just brought to the counter. And you know what's funny, Doug, I almost consider if this gets annoying after I deny the ridiculous tip request when they didn't provide any additional service. You know what I think about asking Doug, asking that person, oh, okay, well, you asked me to pay more than we agreed to. Where's my discount? Now let me ask you a few questions about my discount now that you ask that I pay more than what we agreed to. So tenations become a problem. 

 

Doug Casey  23:47  

Actually, it's worse than that, because now that the world is going to computer money less cash, they give you some choices. I know at Starbucks, this is the case. You want to leave a 10% or a 15% or a 20% tip, those are the things that you can check to make it easy for yourself. But wait a minute, I just wanted a coffee, and what services this person provided for me, other than just drawing a coffee for me and I'm given a choice of it used to be that tips were this is a long time ago, but it's still the way it is in many countries in the world, the tips were just the excess change that you left there. Or the waiter in many countries in the world, like, well, two I can think of off the top of my hand, or Japan, where tipping is is not accepted. In fact, I remember in one Tokyo restaurant, I left some money on the table, and the waitress ran down the street after me to give me my money back. She thought that I inadvertently left it on the table and it was supposed to be a tip. Other countries, like New Zealand, there's no tipping. Certainly out in the country, it's only in the big cities. So yeah, it's become a rather pernicious habit, but I understand, because the average guy doing manual hourly labor like waiting is having a really hard time making it these days, and that's evidenced by the fact that both Trump and Kamala Harris were talking about making tips exempt from income taxes, because you might have to pay the government, well, forget about it. You have to pay them 15% in Social Security taxes, which are non deductible, and then you have to pay income taxes on top of the Social Security taxes. So I I understand why you'd want to do that, but inflation is just another kind of tax, actually, when we get right down to it, that's what it is. It's a subtle tax. It's a tax that you don't see. It's a tax that you blame on the person providing the service of the good, rather than the government, which if they tax you directly. Yeah, you see that, but you don't see that. Inflation is just another form of tax. 

 

Keith Weinhold  25:59  

Sure, an income tax or a property tax is sort of front stage inflation really a backstage tax being surreptitious. To your point, well, if the government is so bad and does such a poor job of issuing currency, Doug, what are your thoughts about the government just getting out of the currency issuance business? Whatever that would look like, a gold standard, a Bitcoin standard. Does the government have to be the one that issues the currency? 

 

Doug Casey  26:27  

No, it doesn't actually look and we might want to forget about this concept of currency. You've heard that the BRICS, a bunch of third world countries, Russia, India, China, Brazil, many others who want to get out of using the dollar, they don't want to use the dollar because the dollar is turned into a floating abstraction, and they can't trust the US government, as the Russians found, because all dollars clear through New York. So what are they going to do? They don't trust each other's phony baloney currencies. I think that those countries are going to go to gold, not a gold currency, gold, which was money since day one of human history. Actually, I think that's going to happen in the US. And for many, many years, I've suggested that people do their saving in gold, not in dollars. I've been saving in gold for the last 50 years, starting when gold was in the low 40s. And as you do with savings, you put it aside, you forget about it. And the gold that I first saved at $40 an ounce, it's now at 2700 more or less, has treated me very well. I think that people should be saving with something that's not going to lose value the way the dollar does. If the dollar is in a lot of trouble, it could dry up and blow away, quite frankly. So one reason why you want to own real things, commodities, properties, gold, things of that nature, or stocks, if you choose the company well. 

 

Keith Weinhold  27:59  

I've helped people that have been hesitant about putting a little bit of money into gold or Bitcoin with the mindset of, don't think about how you are buying gold or Bitcoin. Think of it rather as how you are shifting a portion of your prosperity from dollars, pesos, yen or euros over into gold or Bitcoin. Really, you're just shifting some of your prosperity there. Is the way that I like to think about it. But Doug, as we've been talking about inflation, in this theme of government really having intervention and distortions into free markets, including things like inflation. You know, I've got something that I'm thinking about, and you might help shape or change my thinking about this. We generally champion free markets around here that's typically a good economic system. However, is a free market with some guardrails on it actually helpful? Or do you think that the guardrails shouldn't be there? You mentioned Donald Trump a little bit earlier? One thing, for example, that he says he wants to do Doug is fire the current FTC chair, Lina Khan now the Federal Trade Commission. What their role has really been in the past few years is they spend a lot of their energy cracking down on fraudsters, but Lina Khan wants to bust up mega corporations. So really, what I'm getting at is, can one of the guardrails that's important be that say the FTC make sure there isn't like a an early 1900 style, John D Rockefeller monopoly. What are your thoughts with the government's role in breaking up monopolies? Is that a valid guardrail on the free market? 

 

Doug Casey  29:30  

No, I don't think it is. Look, you've got two kinds of monopolies. You've got market monopolies and legal monopolies. A market monopoly is one where the company provides the good or service so cheaply at such a high quality that nobody can compete with them. It's not worth it. Well, leave it alone. And if they start pricing their product too high, or the quality falls enough in a free market, Competitors will come in. That's one type of monopoly. nothing wrong with that kind of monopoly. The other kind of monopoly is a legal monopoly where the government says you have a franchise to do this, you and only you can do it like, well, like almost anything today, where you have to, you have to get government approval in order to provide the good or service. Like railroads, for instance, you couldn't start a new railroad today if you wanted to. So if it's a legal monopoly, you're fighting the law. If it's a market monopoly, you just have to provide a service or good, cheaper or better. So no, I don't think the FTC or any of these three Leader Letter agencies serve a useful purpose. All they do is add to costs and slow down competition and employ people that stick their nose into your business and tell you what you can or can't do both as a producer and a consumer. Look, the government is force. It's coercion. It should only do three things in a civilized society, we want to limit coercion. That means protect you from coercion outside the country with the military inside the country, with the police force, and allow you to adjudicate disputes peacefully without resorting to coercion through a court system. Everything else can be solved through market processes. Believe it or not, I know that shocks most people to hear they're so used to thinking that big brother is watching over a man is going to save my bank and protect me from bad people out there. I wish there are plenty, but it's not the best way to do it. Frankly.

 

Keith Weinhold  31:33  

you've done a good job of drawing a distinct line as to what you think government should stay out of but what about this monopoly power? What if, even with AI inroads, Google still owns more than 90% of the search markets, so therefore they can charge exorbitant prices. Shouldn't something like Google be broken up in an antitrust lawsuit? 

 

Doug Casey  31:51  

No, no, it shouldn't, because there are other companies out there that provide people are just used to using Google. I use it myself, but there are at least a half a dozen, and I'm not a computer jock, so I think there are more than that, other services out there that you can use instead of Google, and believe me, I don't like these big companies. I mean, they act like semi governments onto themselves. No, you don't want the government to step in, because the government is a far greater danger than Google is. Google can't break down your door at three in the morning with cops and haul you off to jail. Google can just charge you more than you'd want and do other things like that. But you have other alternatives to Google. It's not an active over weeding physical danger the way the government does. And I'm not saying I like Google either. I don't. Let's admit it, they provide us a tremendous service at basically zero cost, and if you can find ways to get around them, I think that's great. Like I said, it's wonderful what they do. But that doesn't mean I'm a fan of them because of the way that, like any big organization, sure, they try to take advantage around the edges. Unfortunately, that's a negative part of human nature. But the government is not the solution to the problem. 

 

Keith Weinhold  33:13  

And of course, this doesn't mean I'm a pro regulation person. Some states and jurisdictions landlord and tenant act can be overbearing.For example, the FDA is not doing a good job with what is allowed to be put into our food, either. So the size of the regulation probably is too big. 

 

Doug Casey  33:31  

My old friend Dirk Pearson, who wrote a book called Life Extension, a practical scientific approach, was a huge bestseller some years ago, and Derek always liked to say the FDA it kills more people every year than the Defense Department does decade. And he's right. 

 

Keith Weinhold  33:51  

Yeah, that is a pretty sad indictment on the state of things there. But do you have given us quite a few things to think about with how inflation is actually an unethical source, and some more thoughts about free markets. If our audience wants to connect with you, what's the best way for them to do that? 

 

Doug Casey  34:07  

Well, go to internationalman.com I write an article there every week, but every day we have great articles by great people. So go to internationalman.com that's one thing on YouTube. Doug Casey's take, where I have a conversation on these and many, many other subjects with Matt Smith every week. And the last thing is, since you can say some things in the form of fiction that you dare not, or better not say in the form of non fiction, right, I have three novels, speculator, drug lord and assassin that I think are excellent reads, so go on Amazon and pick them up too. 

 

Keith Weinhold  34:47  

Yeah, Casey, it's been insightful as usual. Thanks for coming back onto the show today. 

 

Doug Casey  34:52  

Appreciate it, Keith, it's been a pleasure.

 

Keith Weinhold  35:00  

Yeah, good insight from Doug. As always, tipflation has become awfully intrusive. I recently made a donation on my nephew's behalf for his soccer team or something like that on the donation platform, okay, they called that donation my pledge. Okay, sure, but before I finaled out my pledge on the site, they next asked me if I would like to leave a tip on top of my pledge. Sheesh. Well, do you blame the donation platform for trying to up charge me after I'm just trying to be giving or instead, after listening to today's episode, do you blame the government for inflation in spending? Is this all just a result of that? And now we have listeners that when they find this show, they want to go back and listen to all currently, 500 plus episodes. Well, if you're listening to this five or 10 years from now, you might find my tipflation stories unusual because the practice could be so common and embedded into society by then. Right now, it's still pretty novel here in the mid 2020s there's a rapid rate of change on the tip flation front. And the next time that you are asked for an out of bounds tip, are you next going to ask the merchant where your discount is and make them answer three questions about it.

 

And by the way, the cold brew coffee that I mentioned with Doug is not the erstwhile la Columbia brand that I talked about two weeks ago. My favorite and real go tos are the Slate and O, W, Y, N brands. That way you get 20 grams of protein with your coffee and no cheap sweeteners in those two. Now, when it comes to the anti trust stuff, breaking up monopolies and duopolies, see real estate is super fractured with who owns it. I mean, even with more institutional buying of real estate, like we've seen this past decade on a national basis, these huge groups that own 1000 homes or more. All those groups, they only own about 710, of 1%of the US single family housing stock. So real estate investing is free market and it is fractured. It is not at all consolidated. 

 

And now let me give you something outside of real estate, an example from another segment of business, supermarkets. There is no need for you to frantically hoard Annie's mac and cheese. It's not good for you anyway. But two courts rejected the Kroger Albertsons merger earlier this month, and that effectively broke up the deal that would have brought together two of the largest grocery store chains in America, the decision that really gave a sweet victory to FTC chair Lena Khan, like I mentioned there in the interview, but her time at the agency's Helm, that's going to end in a few weeks with the beginning of a new presidential administration. But see, in my opinion, and going after antitrust cases, she was pro free market and pro competition, which I see as a good thing. That way you have more companies vying for your business with better quality and lower prices. But I do like to listen to the other side, because, like I said in the interview, I'm still forming an opinion on this. That's why I wanted Doug Casey's take. And in this case, the two grocery companies, they had argued that creating a larger entity merging them both that would allow it to compete with Walmart and offer higher wages and lower prices. That is their side of it. Now Andrew Ferguson, he is the apparent new FTC chair. He has promised to reverse what he called Khan's anti business agenda, so we're not going to see as much antitrust crackdown from the looks of things. And note that there is also an antitrust division at the DOJ, so their influence weighs in as well. This really hasn't been much of a problem for real estate, one of the most highly fractured major markets around and now you do have though adjacent industry, like the home builder space, where there is a home building giant like Lennar, but even the home builder space isn't nearly as consolidated and anti competitive as say, the online search industry or the airline industry. I would like to wish you a happy new year. As always, we are back next week with more great content coming up on the show. We go in depth on some real estate asset classes and also how you can really, accionably and seriously reduce your tax burden next year with vehicles like bonus depreciation and cost segregation, simplifying those things for you, these are exactly the types of tools about how the rich get ahead by knowing how the tax laws benefit them, and pretty soon you will too.

 

If you like what you hear here each week, please go ahead and tell a friend about the show. I would really appreciate it. Until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 2  40:15  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  40:43  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get rich, education.com

Keith unveils our 2025 National Home Price Appreciation Forecast. Learn the factors driving the housing market and discover why Keith's predictions have been spot-on for the past 3 years. Gain the insights you need to make strategic real estate moves in the year ahead. Don't miss this must-listen episode packed with actionable real estate insights.

The Fannie Mae home purchase sentiment index rose, indicating growing consumer confidence.

Trump's immigration and tariffs policies and their potential impact on housing demand and labor market disruption.

Hear about the impact of the under supply of housing in the US and the potential impact on home prices.

Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” or for Spotify.

Show Notes:

GetRichEducation.com/533

For access to properties or free help with a

GRE Investment Coach, start here:

GREmarketplace.com

GRE Free Investment Coaching:GREmarketplace.com/Coach

Get mortgage loans for investment property:

RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE 

or e-mail: [email protected]

Invest with Freedom Family Investments. 

You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866

For advertising inquiries, visit:

GetRichEducation.com/ad

Best Financial Education:

GetRichEducation.com

Get our wealth-building newsletter free—

text ‘GRE’ to 66866

Our YouTube Channel:

www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation

Follow us on Instagram:

@getricheducation

Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:00  

Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, today is the day that I'm giving you our 2025 national home price appreciation forecast. You'll get the exact percent that I expect home prices to rise for Fall next year. Learn the factors that really move prices. Importantly, I follow up and you get the results of previous years forecasts too. Will it be a holly jolly forecast or more Grinch like today on Get Rich Education.  

 

Mid-south home buyers. I mean, they're total pros, with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your ROI as their North Star. So it's no wonder that smart investors just keep lining up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone. They're headquartered in Memphis and have globally attractive. Cash Flows, an A plus rating with a better business bureau and now over 5000 houses renovated. There's zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate, while their average renter stays more than three and a half years. Every home they offer has brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter. Remember that part and in an astounding price range, 100 to 180k I've personally toured their office and their properties in person in Memphis, get to know Mid South. Enjoy cash flow from day one. Start yourself right now at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid south homebuyers.com

 

you know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info. Oh, geez. Today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got paywalls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now just text GRE to 66866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text GRE to 66866.

 

Corey Coates  3:12  

you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  3:28  

Welcome to GRE from North port, Florida to North Pole, Alaska and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are listening to get rich education episode 533 Yes, your favorite slack jawed real estate podcaster here is indeed the GRE founder. I'm also an active Forbes real estate council member, best selling author. I write our weekly Don't quit your Daydream newsletter. And perhaps most importantly, I am an active real estate investor, I am here to help you invest well in real estate, and that is because most Americans have enough saved for an absolutely incredible single day of retirement. Look the content that you choose to listen to will shape your behavior, it'll even gradually alter your identity over time and forge your dreams. Middle class financial advice will keep you squarely in the middle class. They get robbed of the fruits of their labor through taxes. Get robbed of their purchasing power through inflation, and they get robbed of their financial future by staying financially illiterate. I mean, if you're grinding hard and sacrificing experiences to be debt free at 36 well then that means you aren't using other people's money. You, it confirms that you've got no leverage. Why celebrate that? Celebrate financial freedom or a great vacation, or, you know, anything else, like with your friends and family to the Canary Islands. I mean, that's stuff that's worth celebrating, that's extraordinary in this one and only life that you got. I love the old African proverb, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. You and I are on this journey together. Dream of living the life where you just give a light touch to some of your investments while they are building your wealth, just adjust the sales of your ship a little here and there. Now. We'll get into the big picture real estate forces in my exact percent home price appreciation figure shortly. But doesn't that sound amazing where you can just do this? I mean, that's what I do. I just give a light touch to my investments. For example, at the beginning of this month, I looked at the statements as they came in in emails from my property managers in various real estate markets, like I usually do now when you have a perfect month as a real estate investor, US landlords, or should I say, housing providers, acknowledging last week's show we develop our own vernacular. A perfect month is when you have 100% rental occupancy and no repair items. Once though you have more than about five rental units, it's hard to ever have a perfect month. It's always good to budget something toward long term vacancy and maintenance. But I had a pretty good month last month. For some reason, my properties needed a few new appliances, a replaced fridge. Here, a new microwave. There, a lot of appliances like a fridge, you know, they can still look pretty close to new, even if they're used. That's fine for a rental. This was just a $280 fridge replacement, for example, in this one rental, single family home of mine. So yeah, just that monthly scan of your property manager statement, seeing that income and expenses look kind of reasonable to you, and then going about your day and the rest of your month. Now, it wasn't always that way for me. As I started and grew, I self managed my own properties for the first six or seven years, and sometimes, you know, something will happen where I want to get more proactive and maybe take, say, a 90 minute block of time to shop for lower insurance premiums if I see those rates rising in a certain market or something like that, but that's how it feels to give a light touch to your active direct real estate investments. Keep that going, because this is all happening while you keep other people's money working for you, the banks, the governments and the tenants. 

 

Hey, something that's become newsworthy, an index measuring consumer confidence in the housing market, rose again last month, and that is the latest sign that potential property buyers and sellers are growing more accustomed to today's mortgage rates and prices. The Fannie Mae home purchase sentiment index that has now increased to 75 points. So the index has risen 11 points or more than 16% in the last year. So there is, however, not one shred of evidence, for example, that sub 3% mortgage rates are coming back anytime soon, maybe not even in this decade or in your entire lifetime. Who really knows? I mean, it's soon going to be three years since the Fed began their aggressive rate hiking cycle and the market and consumer expectations are finally adjusting and settling down, and that right there that factors in just the touch to the housing forecast that I'm going to deliver to you today. And before I get into that, since we are get rich education, do you know what the federal funds rate is like, what it really means? Let me explain this to you in a way where I think you'll not only learn, but I'm going to give you an example so that you can actually remember it. And I'm going to over simplify it, the federal funds rate, that thing that Jerome Powell and his committee set, that is the rate that banks pay other banks to borrow from each other. It's a little over 4% right now. Okay, let's just say it's 4% here's why the federal funds rate is typically lower than mortgage rates. Say that Wells Fargo pays bank of America this 4% federal funds rate to borrow so that Wells Fargo can then turn around and lend the funds to you for a real estate mortgage loan. All right. Well now you can see that Wells Fargo had to pay Bank of America 4% that's why, when you go get your real estate loan from Wells Fargo, you can understand and see why they'd have to charge you, say, 7% in order to make a spread. That is why mortgage rates are higher than the federal funds rate. Wells Fargo made the spread of 3% because they borrowed at four, and they lent it to you at seven, and you yourself you borrowed at seven because your tenant pays your interest and principal for you, and you get the leverage and all of the other benefits. So again, the federal funds rate is the rate that banks pay when they borrow from other banks, and since they need to make a spread arbitrage, this is why mortgage rates are higher. Again, that's oversimplified, but I think that's a way where you can really remember what that is and why that is that way. All right. 

 

Well, with that lesson understood, let's talk about the big national home price forecast for next year. And here's what's interesting. Look at the forecasts that my peers have made. All right, I've already got the forecasts from 16 other housing analytics platforms here, and they have all predicted that home prices will rise next year, all 16 of them, but they've all forecast something different. And everything we're discussing today, by the way, is nominal, meaning, not inflation adjusted. All right. Note that the average of all these platforms, all 16 of them, is a 2.8% gain for next year. All right, if you look at all of them the range, the highest is Goldman, Sachs at 4.4% and the lowest is Moody's Analytics at just 310 of 1%

 

I'll tell you now that my forecast today, it wouldn't even fit on this chart, it is going to be off the chart. And this is something that might ramp up your intrigue. Maybe you think I would look at this and choose something safe, and since I have the benefit of seeing how 16 others have weighed in that, I'll just pick something in the middle of that. Oh, no, not at all. This is an independent forecast. So since our forecast is off the chart, then that means that what I'm going to tell you today either has to be higher than the highest, which is that 4.4% from Goldman Sachs, or lower than the lowest, which is that 310 of 1% from Moody's. Yes, it is outside of those brackets, busting the bookends today. And as I lead up to it, I will detail the reasons why the calculus that went into this forecast. So before we're done, yes, you will get the exact percent number that I expect existing single family home values to increase by or decrease by next year. It is the fourth straight year that I'm doing this. And now a lot of people make whimsical predictions, you know. But today, you're gonna get something that you rarely, if ever get accountability, because I'm also going to show you the results, you'll see how well my forecasts have actually performed each of the past three years. Sheesh, don't you wish everyone followed up on the prediction that they made now, oh gosh, most housing price crash Predictions Fail Faster than your average New Year's resolution. All right, we need first historic context in order to put this future that we're talking about into perspective. Let's look at how bad other predictions have been this is something that Yahoo Finance recently pointed out, the year by year, reasons that people thought housing prices would crash Since 2012 so we're talking about the past 13 years here, starting in 2012 it was shadow inventory. Remember that that never came true. 2013 higher mortgage rates. 2014 in that year. People thought that housing prices could tumble hard because QE was ending in October of that year. That is quantitative easing, which is dollar printing. I mean, basically QE, that's just the Genteel way of saying inflation. In 2015 they thought a manufacturing recession would make home prices crash. In 2016 home prices were back to their pre global financial crisis high. Well, people thought that seemed shaky. In 2017 I don't know what it was. No one had a good reason. But the word crash just gets attention, so some media tried to scare people with that headline. Anyway, in 2018 it was mortgage rates went from 4% up to 5% seriously like that was the top reason. In 2019 it was that home price growth was cooling off in 2020 of course, it was the COVID 19 pandemic in 2021 it was mortgage forbearance in 2022 it was that mortgage rates hit 7% that was the first time we saw those in a while, even though 7% is still below the long term average of seven and three quarters percent in 2023 it was historically low housing demand. People thought that would bring down real estate prices. In 2024 it was sustained higher mortgage rates and an uptick in inventory. And what's it going to be in 2025 I don't know. Clickbait artists will have some other farcical reason why home prices will crash. Just watch, all right, well, with that, look back every year since 2012 of course, real estate prices definitely don't always go up. In fact, when we look at a longer term history, the national home price appreciation rate every year since World War Two. Like I told you on a previous episode, there were only two periods where home prices fell, that's over a period of 80 to 85 years. There was just 1% attrition in 1990 and then the only appreciable loss period, of course, were those years around the 2008 global financial crisis, where you really probably could consider that an all out crash, prices were down more than 20% nationally, more than 40% 50% in some markets, all right. Well, how did that concerning period compare to now? Well, 2008 is when conditions were largely opposite of what they are now that is back 2008 we had an oversupply of homes, and it was all supported by poorly underwritten mortgages, meaning the borrower really couldn't afford the payment. And also that's when people had low or no equity in homes, so they just walked away, so borrowers had no equity to lose, nor any credit score to protect, and it was oversupplied there about 17 years ago. I mean, that era was so bad and also such an anomaly, that home prices actually fell below the replacement cost, if you can believe that, meaning that you could ostensibly buy existing property for less than the cost that it would take to build a property, then all right. Well, all three of those conditions are opposite. Now today, we have an under supply of homes. Secondly, we have carefully underwritten mortgages, and thirdly, we have record high equity positions, about 300k on average. People are not walking away from that unless things got absolutely dire. All right, with that historical context. So here we are building up to my factors for the forecast, and then the big reveal of the percent figure here, before we're done, to be clear, what I'm providing is the projected sales price of existing single family homes per the National Association of Realtors, stat set. All right, so why existing? And not include the new builds into that? Well, first of all, there are way more existing home sales. Then there are new build sales each year. And see, the thing is, though, that tracking new build that really skews the numbers, because what can happen is, one year, you might have a ton of luxury new build homes. Well then that skews the numbers up too much. Or then there's the more nascent trend of what's happening lately, building smaller homes this past year in order to help with affordability and building smaller that can skew the numbers down. So sticking with existing homes that allows us to keep things more same same. Today, you'll learn about what goes into my forecast and the factors that actually don't matter as much as you would think, like the incoming Trump administration. You'll also hear an important clip from Trump in a few minutes for the second week in a row, I'm bringing you the show from a fairly interesting place, Anchorage, Alaska. This city of 300,000 people, is at sea level. The west side is confined by a coast. The east side is confined by mountains. It's a modern US city. There are high rise buildings and convention centers and freeways and a really convenient International Airport. What's interesting about being in America's northernmost city right now? Anchorage is. That Saturday, just a couple of days ago, that was the winter Equinox for half of the globe, the entire northern hemisphere. And here, the sunrise time is about 10:15am, and sunset about 3:45pm, that right there is just five and a half hours of daylight. That's it, but it feels like more than that. It feels closer to perhaps seven plus hours of daylight, because at high latitudes, the sun barely drops below the horizon, so therefore you get more Twilight on either end of sunrise in Sunset. Well, this is a real estate show, so I hope that's not too much of an astronomy lesson for you here. But anchorage can never get 24 hours of daylight or darkness, because it simply is not far enough north. In fact, when I fly from, say, the center of the 48 states out here. I travel more west than North. The thing for you to remember is that the only places on the globe that can get 24 hours of daylight and darkness are inside the Arctic and Antarctic circles. They're at 63 and 1/3 degrees of latitude or greater, and Anchorage is just 61 I've been skiing here, but suffice to say, with a lot of darkness, it's been a good place for me to study research and put my effort into this forecast that I'm sharing with you today, which you'll hear after the break. 

 

This week's episode is supported by ridge lending group. It's the same place where I get my investment property mortgages and refinancings, you can go ahead and originate your loans at the same place I get mine, that is Ridgelendinggroup.com.  Also freedom family investments, you can make a loan and get a stable return of 7% 8% or Even 10% yet still have some measure of liquidity. Why park your funds at a bank? You can learn about their private money loans by texting FAMILY to 66866, if you want 8% or more on your money while it's on your mind, just text FAMILY to 66866, and see if it's right for you. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, more next you're listening to get rich education. 

 

Oh geez, the national average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings, so your bank is getting rich off of you. You've got to earn way more, or else you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work with minimum risk. Your Cash generates up to a 10% return and compounds year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25k you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back. Their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And you know how I'd know, because I'm an investor in this myself, earn 10% like me and GRE listeners are text FAMILY to 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text, FAMILY to 66866.

 

hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they've provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation, because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com

 

Tom Wheelwright  24:08  

This is Rich Dad Advisor Tom Wheelwright. Listen to Get Rich Education with Keith Weinhold, and Don't Quit Your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  24:24  

welcome back to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, with the factors that are weighing into my home price appreciation determination for next year. Here now all of these factors matter, but I'm generally going to start with less weighty factors and proceed more toward the weighty factors Trump tariffs. Could Trump tariffs increase materials costs, the cost of materials that go into homes? Well, yes, of course, they could. Could it also increase the labor costs that go into those homes, if, say, businesses decide to onshore. Sure in order to avoid paying the tariffs, yes, and you would have to pay a higher wage to Americans. That's obviously inflationary, but applying tariffs is slow, and it takes a long time to trickle through, okay? But here's the thing, even the threat of tariffs can produce inflation, and we already have the threat that's something real. And now see if you're a consumer and you want to buy a new washer, dryer set or a microwave, well, you're more motivated to do that today, not in a year, because this threat of tariffs might mean that that appliances price will spike. You might want to buy your new car now, if you anticipate the terrace could be coming and it's going to affect that well, the apartment building owner feels the same way before she or he buys 48 washer dryers for their apartment building. Home Builders and remodelers they want to get their materials orders in now, in some cases, whether that's for concrete, drywall, lumber, any component that goes into a home where they think that a tariff could jack up the price, you really need to be paying attention to whether you think this is going to happen or not. So Trump likely means more inflation, and that correlates also with sustained higher interest rates of all kinds, including mortgage rates. And there's no certainty there. There is just that correlation. Now, a lot of real estate investors anticipate that a president with a real estate investor background like Trump Has he is going to return 100% bonus depreciation and extend his tax breaks, okay, all of these things, especially that bonus depreciation, can really enhance your tax situation, but that's not part of the home price appreciation forecast for next year. Okay, we're just looking at next year here. How about mortgage rates? How is that going to factor into home prices for next year? Mortgage rates hardly matter. And the newer listener that you are, the more of a surprise that is, rates are about 7% now, a lot of experts think they're going to go to 6% in a year. But who knows? I mean, a year ago, everyone thought rates would be substantially lower today. But here's the thing, it's not just a who knows. It's almost a who cares about what mortgage rates will be when it comes to prices. Because, like I've shared with you before, since 1994 mortgage rates have risen 1% or more seven different times, and home prices went up all seven times.  Long time listeners like you, you already know this, so for the complete backstory on the why, you can listen to earlier episodes, but the short story is that higher rates, you gotta look at what's happening when there are high rates that's a confirmation that the economy is strong, and when the economy is strong and people feel secure in their job, what do they do? They buy a home. So mortgage rates matter, but a person's personal economy matters more when they make a decision to buy a home or not. A sharp fall in rates that correlates with a recession. So higher rates usually lead to higher home prices, something that almost everyone in real estate thinks of oppositely. On weeks with lower rates this year, we did have lower housing inventory, and with higher rates, we had higher inventory. So that did affect that the next factor is more important than tariffs and mortgage rates, and that is Trump and immigration. Okay? Because this affects the supply versus demand component of housing, something supremely important. Well, more immigrants mean more housing demand, pushing up prices and on immigration, who really knows how many of this surge of fresh immigrants are going to be deported? Will it only be the illegals, or will it be others? Or will it be none at all? Or will it be something else, will trump deport everyone? I mean, that is not easy to do, and it's really expensive. Here are Trump's latest public remarks on how he's going to treat recent immigrants to the US. The interviewer is Kristen Welker from NBC, and she's heard shuffling some papers here too. So don't let that throw you off as you listen to Trump. 

 

Speaker 1  29:39  

You raised the point that the logistics are complicated. You said yourself, everything's gone. You mean you need 24 times more ICE detention capacity just to deport 1 million people per year, not to mention more agents, more judges, more planes. Is it realistic to deport everyone? First of all, they're costing us a fortune, but we're starting. With the criminals, and we got to do it, and then we're starting with others, and we're going to see how it goes

 

Keith Weinhold  30:06  

well there, before Trump's first day in office for his second term, see he's already saying we'll see how it goes with deporting immigrants. He now realizes how costly that is. If there is mass deportation, housing demand goes down, but we'd also have fewer laborers, which a lot of those immigrants are, to build the new housing that our country needs. So there's somewhat of a canceling out effect there. It could mean higher home prices because it could even mean higher home prices because most fresh immigrants are renters. They aren't occupying homes that they own anyway, and just how many people we're talking about here, the Pew Research Center estimates that 13% of construction workers are undocumented. That disruption to the labor market that can produce higher inflation, because the slowdown in home building means less supply and higher prices. Now let's get to the biggest factor before I provide my track record, and then the big number, and that is more on the housing supply versus demand. So yeah, it's really fundamental economics. That's the core driver of next year's anticipated home price change. All right, let's start with supply. How undersupplied of housing are we still in the US? Well, an update on the Fred active listing count, and this is for single families, condos and townhomes. It's that we are up off the bottom, but we're still a good 40% or so below the equilibrium point where demand meets supply. America grew its available inventory 27% this year, pretty significant, and next year, it might grow another 15 or 20% that's my best guess. All right then, well, let's try to project future supply by what you have to do is look at new housing starts. That means shovels in the ground. That means taking a backhoe and excavating for spread footings, digging that trench that you're going to pour concrete into, starting homes from the ground up. Well, we don't have enough starts either not enough. In fact, we could be digging a deeper hole with the under supply at our current level of building, US housing under supply will grow by over 200,000 homes per year if we continue at this low level of building. And would you consider all housing types, single family homes, apartments, mobile homes, condos, ADUs, everything? Freddie Mac estimates that we are currently under supplied by a whopping 3.7 million housing units. Now, you probably heard figures like that before, but let me put it into perspective. At two persons per home, our shortage is greater than what could house the entire population of Libya. That's what we're talking about here. And some agencies estimate we're even more undersupplied than the 3.7 million homes. Now, of course, I'm making only a national forecast today. There are regional variations in some Texas and Florida sub markets, they have built plenty of new build single family homes now, let me tell you something scary. What if your income dropped by a third, making 1/3 less in the future than you do right now? Like that would be a moment of panic for a lot of people, you and your family, as you hold that thought when it comes to supply, this year had historically low home sales. When I talk about sales, these are not prices. This is different. This is the volume of sales. Next year, there will likely only be a few more sales than this year, and there weren't many this year. Now see for you, as an individual real estate investor and a consumer that goes grocery shopping, you know, you are interested in real estate prices, but the industry, if you work in the industry, like as a builder or as a real estate agent or even a furniture provider, they are more concerned about the number of home sales. This sales volume that I'm talking about, and here's what's going on, normal is about 5 million home sales per year. It was over 6 million during the pandemic, and now we're down at 4 million. So I mean, in a short period of time to go from 6 million down to 4 million, that is a drawdown of transactions by a third. So just imagine if you are a home builder or a real estate agent, or you're in the retail furniture business and your volume is down by a third. I mean, what would happen to you if your income were down by a third? And you're in one of those industries and you don't have a way to pivot, so that is scary stuff for that subset of people. Well, while all of that was happening to sales volume, lower and lower volume. Home prices have just kept ticking up these past few years. All right. Well, that was supply, and there is one last factor to weigh before I reveal the forecast number, and that is demand. There is a long way to go before there is enough housing inventory for the pent up demand in the housing market, pent up demand from these people that can't quite afford a home. Demographics is destiny. You know, it is one of the easiest things to project, because demographics is a known forget immigration here, because I already talked about that just domestically, the US had its own high birth rate years from 1990 to 2010 and most people don't know about this. Many of those years between 1990 and 2010 there were over 4 million births annually, and that peaked in the year 2007 All right, you might be wondering, so what? That's the past? What about the future? Well, in housing prices, that right there is the future, with today's first time homebuyer now being a record 38 years old, like I told you about a few episodes ago. Alright, if you add 38 to the year that they were born, 2007 that home buyer demand won't peak until the year 2045 so that is a big part of where the demand just keeps coming from, and is going to keep coming from this wave of demographic demand that might not slow down much until the 2050s and what could slow prices is if a major recession that included a lot of job losses were eminent, that could slow home price growth. But nobody expects that. you know something, on future demand, What if health and fitness influencer Brian Johnson is right, and Earth now has the first generation not to die. What would that do to real estate prices? Have you ever thought that through that would really expand housing demand, but that wouldn't affect things for a couple decades. All right, well, let's talk track record and understand that it is pretty difficult to predict the future, and I have made all these forecasts at the end of one year, just before the forecast year even starts, just like I'm doing today, and here's how I've done at the end of 2021 for 2022 I forecast 9-10% home price appreciation the year ended, and in 2022 they came in at 10% so I got that one right. For 2023 before that year even began, I forecast 0% just that home prices would stay flat. And by the way, so many people were calling for a housing price decline that year because mortgage rates had risen. But as we know here on the show, when mortgage rates rise, home prices typically do too. And I also said back then was supply so low, I don't really see how home prices could fall. Well, the year ended, and sure enough, they came in at 0% and all of this is published in on record. You can go back and find all this, in fact, for 2024 you can hear the forecast that I made near the end of last year for 2024 and you could do that by going back and listening to Episode 481 this is episode 533 that was 52 weeks ago, and you will hear that my forecast back then for this year's home price appreciation was 4% this year is not quite over, plus housing data lags somewhat, in fact, through October, however, they were 4.1%

 

we've almost got that November number, not quite, but it's very likely going to end up being 4% this year, just like I had forecast at the end of Last year, but it's still officially to be determined. Before I gave the awaited fresh forecast for next year with what looks to me like really nailing the forecast spot on three years in a row now you might be wondering something, how did I know? How did I have the foresight to know that and nail those. Forecasts. You know, at this point, I have to concede that there's probably a little luck that has come into play, but this is what I do. I study research and even participate in the National residential housing market. What you're getting is my best estimate. It's not any sort of promise or guarantee. I mean, like all other 8.1 billion human beings on earth, I don't have a crystal ball, and a streak like this has gone on for three years, but it cannot go on forever. So this is what I can best surmise. So really, for 2025 The short story is that I expect more buyers than homes, which creates bids and buoyant prices. I also expect continued inflationary pressure. Those are the two chief factors that went into this. We don't ever revise our forecast mid year. This is it. For 2025 I expect home prices to increase by 5%. Yes, there it is 5% projected appreciation for next year. And to be clear, that is the NARS national median existing single family home price, the same stat set that I have cited all four years again, it is nominal, meaning, not inflation adjusted, so at Christmas or New Year's or your next dinner party, when You see your slack jawed brother in law that thinks the housing market is always going to crash, give the dude a hug and a turkey leg and tell him that I expect plus 5% and pass me the wishbone for good luck on our fourth consecutive housing price appreciation forecast, I really hope that this helps with planning your own portfolio moves, whether that's you owning more income property next year or doing a refinancing, or how you think about your own primary residence. And do you like the forecast that I've done here near the end of each year ever since 2021 if you do let us know, write us or leave us voicemail at get rich education.com/contact let me know you can always get a hold of us there year round with any type of feedback or questions. 

 

Hey, if you appreciate this show here, do you think that you could help me out in one small way? Call it my Christmas gift request. There's only one item on my Christmas list, and it should only take a couple minutes of your time and none of your money. Leave a podcast rating and review for the get rich education podcast on Apple podcasts or Spotify, or wherever you listen, the rating is the five star thing. The review is a few short sentences about why you like the show. I would really appreciate the gift from you, and I will read your review myself too. If you don't know how to do it right inside those listener apps, just open up a browser tab and search how to leave an apple podcast review, or Spotify podcast review, or whatever platform you prefer to listen on it would feel like a little Christmas gift to me after all these years, I'd love your feedback given that way. Tell me what you think, and thanks from me and the entire team here at GRE Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your day dream.

 

Speaker 2  43:46  

nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  44:06  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building. Get rich education.com