Keith answers listener questions about getting started in real estate investing with limited funds and how to determine the true appreciation of a property against inflation. He also discusses:

The impact of the LA wildfires on housing needs and some landlords raising rents excessively.

Economic and housing challenges facing Canada, including high inflation and unaffordable home prices. And highlights the views of likely future Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Poilievre on addressing these issues.

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Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, I answer three of your listener questions, then learn why LA area landlords got a bad name during this month's awful Southern California wildfires. Finally, why Canadians cannot buy houses anymore, and what lessons you can learn from Canada's real estate mistakes and the abject lunacy there today on get rich education.

 

Unknown Speaker  0:30  

Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being the flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com

 

Unknown Speaker  1:16  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:32  

Welcome to GRE from Gatlinburg, Tennessee to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are inside this week's installment of the program known as get rich education, I'm grateful that you're here, but you're not here for me. You are here for you. So let's talk about you and some of the listener questions that you wrote into the show about and as usual, whenever I have a batch of listener questions, I answer the beginner level questions first and then move on to more advanced questions. The first one comes from Jeanette in Seaford, Delaware. Jeanette asks, I only have a little money to invest in real estate. How do I get started with just a small amount of money. All right, Jeanette, well, first I would talk to a lender. You have to talk to a mortgage specialist or a loan officer to find out what you qualify for. You're basically getting them to punch holes into your financial picture. And then that way, Jeanette, you will know what holes to go, mend, so your loan officer is essentially giving you a free troubleshooting session. Now, our investment coaches here at GRE help you with some of that, but GRE doesn't originate loans, so you want to get with someone like a ridge lending group for help. And now, what are some of the holes that a mortgage lender might poke into your finances? Jeanette, well, getting your credit score up and they'll help you with that strategy. Or you simply need more dollars in savings, in what your mortgage loan underwriter calls reserves, or you might need to establish a two year job history, or you have to say, Pay off your car loan in order to get your debt to income ratio lower, or whatever it is. And since at GRE marketplace, the least expensive income property is probably about $120,000right now, a number that keeps going up with inflation. But what you would need is 23 to 25% of that between your down payment and closing costs, all right? Jeanette, so then about 28 to 30k that is the minimum lump of cash that you'll need to buy a property that is already fixed up and ready for a tenant, and that is a great way to start in real estate investing if you want to maintain your standard of living, okay, that is therefore the lowest entry point that you can do that. But if you're temporarily willing to let your quality of life slide for a couple years and maybe live communally. You can put as little as 3% down on a primary residence and then rent out the other rooms. Okay, that's the house hacking model, but depending on your setup, you know, maybe you're sharing a kitchen with roommates or suitemates, and therefore that temporary loss in quality of life. Maybe you can even Airbnb at a short term rental, in which case you will be buying the furniture. However, now with a 3% down payment on an owner occupied house, hack like that, you're probably going to have to pay a PMI premium, a private mortgage insurance premium of a few $100 per month. But still, this does get you in with very little money, since that's what you're asking about Jeanette. And finally, the third thing I'll bring up here is that you can get a combination of maintaining your standard of living and putting a small down payment on a property by using an FHA loan and three and a half percent down. And you can do that with a single family home, duplex, triplex or four Plex, living in one unit and renting out the others. So yes, you get both this way, but I will not go into the details on the FHA, because I have described that in detail on other episodes since it's how I started out myself. But there are a number of options right there for you to inquire about Jeanette, all starting with an investment centric mortgage lender like Ridgelendinggroup.com.  

 

The next question comes from Jared in Pocatello, Idaho. Jared asks Keith, in the past year, my duplex in Pocatello went up in value 5% from 400k to 420k. How do I know how much of that 5% is true appreciation, and what portion of the 5% is from inflation? Oh, that is such a devastatingly cool question Jared, and that's exactly what I thought when I saw that question come in. Okay, so basically, Jared is asking, say, in this 5% price increase is 3% from inflation and 2% from appreciation, for example, or like, what is the breakout of those two components of the price change? And a lot of people don't understand the difference, and even know enough to ask a question this good. So props to you there. Jared. One thing you cannot do is just look at CPI inflation over the last year for the US, which is 2.9% and then say, Oh, well, then I guess the other 2.1% must be appreciation. Therefore, no, you can't really do that. There's more to it than that, for a lot of reasons. I mean consumer price inflation, like on a pound of ground beef at the supermarket, that is different from asset price inflation, and there are a lot of other reasons too. Appreciation is distinctly different from inflation, because the value of your property increasing 5% that has to do with the attractiveness of your property to the marketplace. Now there are attributes with appreciation, like proximity to high paying jobs, proximity to highways and shopping in desirable schools, which are basically those axiomatic Location, location, location qualities. Now I'm going to assume that you did not make an improvement or a renovation to the property Jared, because obviously that would hike up the value. Now other appreciation attributes that are distinctly different from inflation are things like population growth and wage growth in your area, what can really pump up appreciation is if the remaining availability of developable land starts shrinking and shriveling up in a desirable location. Contrary to popular belief, mortgage rates have little to do with appreciation. We can leave that out of this discussion. Now, how this is different from inflation is that inflation is not about the intrinsic value. Rather, inflation is the price of the home increasing because the currency is worth less. Now I hope that you find that explanation satisfying Jared, but what is dissatisfying is that it's actually hard to pin down a number and say, was this two and a half percent appreciation and two and a half percent inflation, or any other combination? And that's because inflation itself is practically impossible to accurately measure, and a lot of that has to do with an inflationary basket of goods that is just exceedingly difficult to adjust for attributes like quality and utility and substitution So Jerry did is likely that your duplexes 5% value increase is an amalgamation of both appreciation and inflation, that part I can confirm, but the exact breakdown for each is virtually incalculable, super insightful question there Jared.  

 

The third and final of our three listener questions to get the show started today, and then I'll get into landlords in the LA wildfires and Canada versus us real estate. The final question today is from Jeter in Roseville, California. I know where Roseville is. It's just northeast of Sacramento, and I'm not sure if Jeter j, e t, e r is your first name or your last name, like former Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter, but only one name came in here. Jeter asks, Keith, I am a true believer in GRE principles. I'm looking to pounce on some property this year and get leverage and other people's money working for me, instead of only getting my money to work for me in my company's 401 k. Let me just interject here. You really get it. You really get it. Jeter, um, continuing on with your question, with mortgage rates around 7% I'd love to know where you think interest rates are headed next, and what is going to make rates move. Thanks, Jeter. Well, I've got to tell you, Jeter, not only do I avoid predicting future interest rates, but I don't know of anyone in the world that can predict interest rates with high reliability, especially over the medium to long term. James Grant, He's based in New York City. He puts out a publication called Grant's Interest Rate Observer that might just give you a better than 5050, shot of where they're headed next. He's a well regarded source. In fact, I saw James Grant speak in person a couple months ago, but I wouldn't put too much credence in any interest rate predictor out there. Now, just 11 days ago, I sent our newsletter subscribers a graphic of just how bad. I mean, really awful that recent interest rate predictions have been. I've never seen a chart like this. This chart looked like a centipede. Okay, the Bold Line was the actual federal funds rate that was like the centipedes body and all the hundreds of legs coming off this line were predictions that others had made, all deviating from the true line, the centipede body, which is what the rate really was. I mean, prominent experts rate predictions have a track record that's more abysmal than everyone saying we'd surely have a man on Mars, by now, terrible. Jeter. When you look at interest rate predictions, you're looking at a waste of your time. They're about as reliable as a weather app in a tornado a year ago, the collective brain trusts of all the economic wizards believed with devotion and alacrity that mortgage rates would be sub six now, instead, they are still about seven, which might correspond to a three or three and a half percent federal funds rate. They all thought the federal funds rate would be near three by now, but it's more like four and a half today. And what's hilarious is that, in more recent years, the Fed even tells us what they plan to do next. They even tell us it's little like having the answers to the test, and yet you still fail the test. You've got the cheat sheet and you still aren't doing any better? How can this possibly be? Well, the reason that I don't make interest rate predictions is because it is a surefire way to look foolish. Jeter, to answer the second part of your question, what moves interest rates around? The answer is, well, it's really broad economic forces and political forces, that is why it's tough, and this includes jobs reports, supply and demand of credit, inflation, a pandemic, a surprise new war in the Middle East, tariffs, GDP reports, surprise election outcomes, a massive change in tax policy and more. I mean, it is total entropy. Now, one thing we know is that persistently higher inflation will soon result in higher rates, just like we saw in 2022 I mean, rates rise in a bullish, robust and optimistic economy. And another thing that we do know is that sustained fear causes rates to fall. That's why, when you look at a chart, you see interest rates of all kinds plunge like a cliff diver during the 2001 dot com recession, the 2008 GFC and the 2020 COVID pandemic. The reason that rates fall during fearful times just like those, is because the economy needs the help and a little pro tip for you here, Jeter, when a recession begins, it's more likely than not that rates will fall. But see, it can be hard to predict a recession, as we've all found out recently, we just came off three fed interest rate cuts late last year, and that was a little weird, because the economy does not need the help that is sort of like offering Gatorade to someone that's not even sweating. Okay, and when rates scrape the ocean bottom floor at zero, from 2009 to 2016 and then again from 2020, to 2022,that's unhealthy. Natural market forces would mean that there's a cost to receive a service like borrowing money. Well, with zero rates, it feels like no one wants to save and everyone wants to borrow and spend. Zero rates, it is time to all out. Ball out. My two time GRE podcast guest here on the show, and super smart guy, Dr Chris Martinson, he thinks that rates are generally going to go higher from here. But you don't have to look far. You can find other wise guys that say they're going lower. At the last Fed meeting last year, they disappointed markets by signaling plans to only cut rates twice this year, instead of the four cuts that were previously expected. And now that's even changed since then, a lot of people question if those two cuts are even going to happen this year, given things like a hot jobs report that came flying in and still too high inflation. So this is kind of like expecting a decadent dessert of rate cuts, and instead you get, like, one Biscoff cookie, like they give you an economy on the plane. So Jeter, that's why I don't forecast rates. I don't think anyone can, but now, at least you have a couple resources, and you also know what factors move rates around. 

 

Now if you want a fun, real time pulse on the market. Check out poly market. You might have heard of it by now. It's a site where you can place bets on various outcomes, a lot of non sports bets. You can see people put their money where their mouth is. You don't have to make a wager yourself. You can just see what people are wagering on. There are wagers on fed interest rate decisions. There at Poly market, you can even place a bet on if Jerome Powell says Good afternoon at his next press conference over there on Poly market, I'm not kidding right now, the odds of him saying Good afternoon at his next press conference are 96% so remember this, the market has always felt confident about where rates are headed, and the market has always been wrong. Interest rates don't drive property values. Their intrinsic worth is based on the timeless stuff, location, amenities, income, occupancy, size, density, business case, exit options and operating costs. Those are the things that drive property values. The bottom line with interest rates is that nobody knows the future interest rates direction is a pinball game of black swans and policy pivots. So instead, focus on the big things that you can control, like how many dollars you have, leveraging properties and keeping your operations on those properties efficient. So Jeter waiting to buy property generally harms an investor more than it helps them, because it's dollars on the sidelines that are paying the opportunity cost of not leveraging other people's money. Of course, if you buy your property at whatever interest rate today, and rates soon fall like a knife, well, then you can refinance at the lower rate, all while leverage keeps compounding and building your wealth. Thanks for the question,  Jeter. 

 

If you have a listener question or comment or feedback of any type for us, as always, you can visit us at get rich education.com/contactfor either written or voice communication there, like I said earlier, that amazingly interesting centipede like chart of just how dreadful interest rate predictions have really been that was in our recent newsletter. Now it's too late for you to get that issue, but to get more like them, you can get our don't Quit your Daydream. Newsletter, completely free, just text GRE to 66866 that's text GRE to 66866.

 

now, when it comes to this month's historically bad, devastating LA area wildfires, I heard from a friend in that area last week. She lives just south of LA and her house was spared, fortunately, but she's been busy helping friends in the LA area who have lost their homes and businesses. It is truly tragic. And you know, what she told me, is the biggest, most compelling need right now, and I put some credence in this, since it's an independent on the ground report. This is outside of major media, displaced residents. Number one need is not food, it's not water, it's not clothing, it's not heat, it's not even community with 1000s of families without homes, the urgent need is for housing. You might not find that surprising. That's what she shared with me. I mean, it is a need so dire that even a family of six would consider a small mobile home or an RV rental to help with temporary housing. And a lot of these displaced families were you know, you got to consider the fact that before the fire, they were living in above average homes, even luxury homes. Now, as far as LA area, landlords that have housing to rent out, a lot of those landlords have jacked up the rent price. California's anti price gouging. Laws make it illegal for landlords to raise rent by more than 10% in the first month to six months after a disaster is declared. Now the BBC reported that one resident who lost their home in the historic California wildfires found a rental property that was previously priced at $13,000 per month, they offered $20,000 per month, and the landlord countered with 23k that is a 75% price hike. And it's not the only example. A Bel Air home located in an evacuation warning zone was listed on Zillow recently at 29,500bucks a month. That is an 86% hike from its September of last year price. That's according to the outlet called La est, another realtor raised in Encino, California, listing from 9k per month at the beginning of this month to 11 and a half K after the fires started. That's according to the LA Times. The realtor then backpedaled to abide by the 10% rule, which she said that she did not know about. And for a little context there, yes, those rent prices sound high, and La rent was already high. It averaged $2,820 a month. That's compared to $1,983a month nationally. Those figures are per Zillow. Now I don't know what percentage of La landlords are engaging in. I guess what I'll call extortionate behavior, but even if it's the vast minority of landlords you know that gives them a bad name, to have the word landlord in headlines like this. And is this behavior extortionate? In some cases, it probably is, I suspect, just a guess here that some landlords might think they have a chance of insurance paying some or all of the higher rent for their tenant that was displaced from their original home. But let's keep things in perspective here. What this does to good landlords reputations. You know, that's not the story here. The story and the effort should be in helping the displaced people. And of course, there are so many angles to the devastating la wildfires. One of them is that many believe zoning laws pushed homes out into fire prone areas. I recently shared that reason.com article with you in our free newsletter. So again, to get our Don't quit your Daydream newsletter, completely free, which I write every word of myself. Text GRE to 6866 you can do it now, while it's on your mind, hit pause and text GRE to 66866 the abject lunacy in Canada's real estate market, in what US residents and others can learn from all this, that's next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education.

 

Hey, you. Can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com That's ridgelendinggroup.com.

 

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Naresh Vissa  26:41  

this is GRE real estate investment coach. Naresh Vissa don't live below your means, grow your needs. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold.

 

Keith Weinhold  26:57  

Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, let's discuss the Canadian economy and Canadian real estate. Because even if you live in the US or Central America or Europe or one of the other 187 nations that were heard in outside the US, you know there are lessons here for you, and there are lessons here for me as well. There is some just jaw dropping material that I'm about to share with you, and I won't discuss the politics of it, because that's not GRE 's lane. Instead, it is the policy. Earlier this month, Canada's equivalent of the President, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced that he will be resigning soon. And Trudeau has been under a lot of criticism. At last check, his approval rating was a miserable 22% now, most people think that the next and future Prime Minister of Canada will be a man named Pierre Poilievre. In fact, the wagering site poly market has polyev with an over 80% chance of being Canada's next prime minister, and you will hear him speak shortly here. And yes, that is how an Anglophone pronounces his last name, polyev In a recent interview with Dr Jordan Peterson. You'll listen into here shortly. Polyev, Canada's likely next leader here, first, he describes some of the problems with Canada's economy, and then he'll get into their real estate market. Right now, the median home price in the United States is about 450k you might think that Canada's should be lower, because Canada has more land in the US and Canada has just about 1/9 of the US population. So a low population density. I mean, the US is population density is more than 10 times Canada's. But no, due to some of these policies, it's just the opposite, because Canada's average home is over 725k. yeah, that's just for a basic home. I've got to admit, I did not know who polyev was until just a couple months ago. I'm starting to like him the more that I listen to him. He's a clear thinker and a clear speaker. Here is a clip of Canada's likely next leader talking about Canada's problems. This is 10 and a half minutes long. I'm going to listen to this again with you right now, and then I will come back along with you to comment. This is why you can't buy a house in Trudeau, Canada. 

 

Unknown Speaker  29:41  

Our productivity is another major problem right now, and that's productivity. Sounds complicated. It's actually extremely simple. You just take the GDP and you divide it by the hours worked in the country. So American GDP is $80 so for every hour an American worker works, on average. He or she produces $80 of GDP in Canada, it 50. So that's every hour. So that means we have to work 60% more just to make the same amount and have the same level of income to buy food and housing. And so that's the Now that sounds like a bunch of wonk speak that should might seem like it only matters to someone staring at a spreadsheet or a graph or a chart, but in fact, that's reflected in the fact that our 2 million people are lined up at food banks because they can't afford food, and 80% of youth can't afford homes, and our quality of life is and the things we can afford to provide our kids have fallen back so much there's a real, real life, Stark and easily comprehensible statistic. And if you work and you produce $80 worth of goods and services in an hour, yeah, compared to working and producing 50, obviously, that's a substantial shortfall. Yeah. So, and is that, is there a starker indicator of the economic disparity between the US and Canada than that? Or do you think that's the primary statistic? I mean, I think housing costs are another one. I mean, right. There was a study out just 10 days ago that has Toronto and Vancouver now by far the most unaffordable housing markets in North America. And so you know, housing costs are 50% higher in Toronto than they are in Chicago, even though Chicago workers make 50% more money. The same is true between Vancouver and Seattle. Seattle workers make way more than Vancouver workers, but housing is 60 or 70% more expensive in Vancouver. So on, all the measures by a lot. Yes, a lot by a lot. Yeah, and we're and we're paying more, more by a lot, right? And most of that's transpired the last 10 years. Yes, and we're paying the difference by accumulating enormous quantities of debt. Our households are by far the most indebted in the g7. when you take you divide total household debt by GDP, we now have a bigger stock of household debt than our entire economy. We are more indebted as households than the Americans were right before the oh eight financial crisis. And so what we have as a model in Canada is we have artificial scarcity imposed by very heavy and restrictive state, confiscatory state, so that suppresses production. But in order to allow for consumption, we print money and borrow money and then flood the economy with that money. Okay, so that's another problem. So that's the inflationary problem. Yes. Now the problem with inflation just many problems with inflation, but one of them is that it particularly punishes people who are thrifty and who save? Yes, right, right? So inflation punishes the people who forego gratification to invest in the future. That's right, right? So that's a very bad idea. It's our inflation is the single most immoral tax for so many reasons. One, it takes from savers and people who are trying to be responsible, thus making it impossible to be responsible, because you will, if you, if you refuse to play the inflation game of borrowing money to buy things you can't afford, someone else inevitably will, and you won't be able to afford anything. So you ultimately have to actor responsibly. It's like Milton Friedman was asked, What would you do with your money in times of inflation? He said, spend it right like the first thing you want to do when inflation is out of control is to make sure you get rid of this thing that's losing its value. The second reason it's immoral is it takes from the poor, because the poorest people cannot put they do not have the ability to buy inflation proof assets like gold and real estate and fancy watches and art collections and wine fancy wines and things that go up with or even exceed inflation. So it's a very big wealth transfer from the have to the from the from the poor and the working class to the very, very wealthy, a very small group of people actually get richer. So the socialist policies that provide goods and services to Canadians, let's say, or denizens of other countries by printing money, actually punish the poor brutally. Oh, absolutely, and consequence of the inflation that they generate. Yes, I mean all the socialist policies in practice take redistribute from the working class to the super wealthy in practice, and I can prove that again and again and again in practice, yeah, in practice. In practice they with the all the redistribution that happens in the so called socialist countries ultimately goes from the working class to the super wealthy. That is the reality. Okay, so, but just one last thing on inflation. The final reason why it's so immoral is nobody votes on it. The basic principle of our parliamentary system is the government can't tax what parliament has not voted the people must no taxation without representation, right? But no one ever votes to have the money printing happen. And so the inflation is adopted secretly, and you blame the grocer because groceries are more expensive, or your local gas station because gas is more or your realtor because house, in fact, it was actually the government that bid up all of those things with money printing, and you didn't even know about it. So it is silent. It's a silent thief that takes from the poor and gives to the richest people and destroys the working class. And that's why I am I want to crush inflation. We need a policy that seeks to just to stop inflation at all, at all costs. Okay, so what would you do to to stop inflation? Well, we stopped the money printing. You know, we need a we need. And the money printing is just a means to fund deficit spending. Governments borrow to define the deficit, yeah, for people. So basically, the deficit is the difference between what the government spends and what it brings in. It's usually calculated on a yearly basis, that's right, yeah, and the debt, but the debt is just the accumulation of the deficits, right? So the deficit right now is $62 billion and I thought it had a ceiling of 41 billion. Yeah, right. Isn't that a ceiling? Yes, not a I guess not. And look, there are very real present day consequences for that. Deficits increase the money supply. Central banks effectively facilitate that increase in the money supply, and that causes inflation. And, you know, it's, it's why our, you know, I have a buddy who's whose family moved here from Italy back in 1973 His father worked paving roads and his mother made sandwiches in a senior's home, they were able to pay off their home 10 minutes from Parliament Hill in seven years. Right, their grandchildren wouldn't be able to save up a down payment for that home in 15 years, and they will be university educated with all the advantages of having been here two decades. That is the consequence of the money supply growing vastly quicker than the stuff that money buys. So we have to do is stop growing the money supply and start growing the stuff money buys. Right? Produce more energy, grow more food, build more homes. We have to unleash the free enterprise system to produce more stuff of value, and this is where we have to remove the artificial scarcity that the government is imposing on the population. Let's incentivize our municipalities to grant the fastest building permits in the world to build homes. You have a plan for that in principle, yes, I mean, I'm going to say to the municipal governments, they either, they either speed up permits, cut Development Charges and free up land, or they will lose their federal infrastructure money, so they will have a powerful carrot and stick incentive to speed up home building and the percentage of a new house price. That's a consequence of government, taxation and regulation. Well, in Vancouver, it's 60% 66 does that include the land and the house? Yes, that includes everything. So I'll tell you how they calculate it, CD, how took the cost of building a compare the cost of building a home to the cost of buying a home, yeah. And he said, what's the gap between those two things? So they added up land, labor, profit for the developer, materials, and they compared that to the sale price, and they found the gap was $1.2 million so that's $1.2 million of extra cost, above and beyond the materials, the labor, the land and the profit for the developer. So where's that going? Well? The answer is, development charges,sales taxes, land transfer taxes, the delays in getting the permit. Time is money, the consultants, lawyers, accountants, lobbyists that the developer has to hire in order to get the approval that so in other words, we're spending twice in Vancouver. We spend twice as much on bureaucrats than we do on all other things combined. To build a home, more money goes to bureaucrats than goes to the carpenters, electricians and plumbers who build the place. And to add insult to injury, those trades people who build homes can't afford to live in them, right? I mean, it is. So what we need to do is slash the bureaucracy. And I'm going to I'm going to say to the mayors, you're not getting federal infrastructure money until you slash your development charges, speed up your permits. I'm going to take. The Federal GST off new homes under a certain limit, and encourage the provinces to do the same. But we've got so much land. We should have the most affordable housing in the world. We have. It should be dirt cheap because we have the most dirt we just need to get the government out of the way. 

 

Keith Weinhold  40:20  

Yeah, again, that was Dr Jordan Peterson interviewing Canada's likely next leader, Pierre poilievre, just a few weeks ago now. Polyev, when discussing inflation and investing, you know, he also brought up points that I've surfaced here on the show over the past few years. He even articulates a few things the way I've described them. It's almost weird, like inflation means that it actually makes sense to strategically borrow and spend and not to save. It's almost like polyev is a GRE listener. I love how he said, stop growing the money supply and start growing the things that money buys. We're talking about things like homes and energy and food. That was eloquent. I mean, in Vancouver, the percentage of a new house cost for taxation and regulation is 60% of the cost of the home, fully 60 and then, if that's not surprising enough, due to all these layers of regulation, the cost of building a new home is $1.2 million more than the cost of buying an existing home. Just astounding. This might have even left you either flabbergasted or gobsmacked, which one?So some parallels to the US there in Canada, but back here in the US, the housing market is clearly more affordable and healthier. Polyev really pointed out a direction that the US does not want to fall into. In fact, we've got a pretty good Canadian listening contingent. So let me ask, Do you have a connection to Pierre poilievre, if you do, we would probably like to invite him here on to the show with us. If you do, or you even know someone that knows someone, let us know right into get rich education.com/contact or email us directly at info@get rich education.com and we'll make that happen now. What is happening at GRE marketplace right now is that our listeners are getting brand new build investment property in Florida and some other places at competitive prices and a fixed interest rate of just four and three quarters percent. So yes, that is sub Canadian prices, by far below Canadian prices, and a four and three quarter percent rate. And then on top of that, you get to pay an affordable insurance premium in Florida because it's new build, or similarly, it's that way in other states if you buy new build, but builders overbuilt in some pockets of Florida, like I've mentioned to you before. So at this time, on top of all that, they're offering a free full year of property management. And because when you own a new build property, it's not occupied with tenants on day one, and this means that you don't inherit unknown tenants. And builders are also offering you up to three months in a rent guarantee in case your single family home or duplex or four Plex is not occupied yet, the builder would pay the rent for you. Really amazing incentives, but probably none better than that four and three quarter percent mortgage rate. I mean, it's like you get to roll the clock back to when rates were artificially low, back in 2021, and 2022, and lock it in. Now, our GRE investment coaches connect you with the investment property that's right for you based on your needs and your goals, including those four and three quarter percent rates, if you so choose, it is all free at GRE marketplace. From GRE marketplace.com just click on the coaching area and you can book a time right there until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream. 

 

Unknown Speaker  44:23  

nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively

 

Unknown Speaker  44:51  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building get rich education.com you.

 

Cost segregation studies can significantly reduce taxable income by accelerating depreciation on rental properties. They reclassify certain property components, such as flooring and lighting, to shorter depreciation schedules (5, 7, or 15 years) instead of the standard 27.5 years for residential or 39 years for commercial properties. 

This method can result in substantial tax savings. For example, a $510,000 duplex study yielded $131,000 in accelerated depreciation, potentially saving $40,000 in taxes at a 30% rate. 

Although the percentage has been stepping down, it may be reinstated to 100% under the Trump administration.

Initiate a cost segregation study estimate here to determine the potential tax savings. 

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Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, when you reduce your taxable income, that's a zero risk return on your investment. You'll learn how to do that today with any rental real estate that you own through what's known as a cost segregation study, even those without a giant portfolio can save 10s or hundreds of 1000s of dollars. An expert guests and I break it down with real life examples, see just how it can help you today. On get rich education

 

Speaker 1  0:34  

since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show, guess who? Top Selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com

 

Corey Coates  1:19  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:35  

Welcome to GRE from Berlin, Pennsylvania to Berlin, Germany and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education. And one way that I like to be positioned in real estate is the sense that I own it directly, yet I use a property manager so that I'm shielded from the day to day responsibility. I care, but I can still live my life now you might favor direct ownership like I do, yet choose to self manage your property instead. That's a viable way to do it. Self management is how I started out, but however you handle the management when you own directly, you can alter your effective post tax rate of return on your investment, and that's what we're talking about doing today with a cost segregation what this effectively does is increase your tax depreciation benefit. Though depreciation sounds bad as a word in the real estate world, even without spending any of your own money, it's still classified by the tax code as an expense that you can deduct from your taxable income. You don't want to reduce your income, only the taxable income reducing the portion that the IRS can get a piece of. Now, unless it's a condo, your rental property probably includes both a structure called the improvement and also the land. Now your improvement has components that wear out, and even the IRS knows that the land does not wear out yet. There are items on the land that you can get this accelerated depreciation on through a cost segregation, like fencing and lighting and carports. A lot of people don't know that, so there is therefore a land improvement segregation often on a 15 year schedule, but it's even more lucrative to get cost segregations applied to things inside your building or home that wear out faster, like countertops or flooring, as we'll see today, on shorter schedules, like five or seven years. Said another way what you're doing is that you are shielding more of your taxable income. And I'm going to ask today's Cost Segregation expert guest for an example near the start of our conversation, so he'll give us some numbers. And you want to listen to that part closely, and you might find yourself skipping back to re listen to some parts today as we give real life examples on how a cost seg works. Now, today is a Presidential Inauguration Day, so it's appropriate that we cover this today, because Trump is widely expected to reset 100% bonus depreciation, which, as you'll see, factors into our discussion today. And frequent GRE guest Tom wheelwright thinks that this is going to happen too this 100% bonus depreciation. What that means that, for example, all those land improvements that I mentioned on a 15 year depreciation schedule, where you could front load it and get it all in year one of your ownership and those components indoors. On shorter depreciation schedules, like five to seven years, you can get all those write offs in year one without waiting five to seven years. So that's. The sweetener that 100% bonus depreciation is, if Trump indeed brings that back, and you might say, wait a second, this sounds a little too good to be true. I mean, getting these amounts, you'll see they can be over 100k in tax savings, even for a small investor, that you can reduce your taxable income by Well, you know, it is just a little too good to be true, because when you sell the property down the road, you have to pay back 25% of what you wrote off this way in what's known as a depreciation recapture tax. So it's still worth doing. In a lot of cases, you would keep 75% of your benefit then, unless you do a tax deferred exchange on your sale, and then you could defer that 25% depreciation recapture tax. So yes, today's episode is deeper than most. And you know, being a Presidential Inauguration Day, and knowing that I like to drop a little levity here before we delve into deep topics, what does the outgoing presidential administration have to say about cost? Segregations get hot.

 

Speaker 2  6:13  

 I got Lana. I got hairy legs that turn that turnblonde in the sun, and the kids used to come up and reach in the pool and rub my leg down so it was trained, and then watch the hair come back up again.

 

Keith Weinhold  6:32  

I don't know what just happened there. Let me just give him another chance to clear things up. I mean, you really can do a cost segregation, 

 

Speaker 2  6:41  

we have this notion that somehow, if you're poor, you cannot do it. Poor kids are just as bright and just as tall as white kids. 

 

Keith Weinhold  6:51  

Gosh, oh dear, I don't I don't know where to go with that. And hey, if you're a new listener, you know, over time, we poke a little fun at every president. We do with Trump as well. We do with Jerome Powell. No one is immune around here. Some people, hey, they might find it funny that a former real estate investor President like Trump wants to expand America's real estate portfolio by taking Canada and Greenland in the Panama Canal back too. Politics matter, but this is not a politically partisan platform in any way. What's politically partisan? It's saying that the economy is like absolutely awful, but then as soon as your guy gets sworn in, one hour later, you're willing to call that same economy. Now suddenly, a great economy. No, a national economy does not change in one hour. So free thinking and thinking for yourself beats polarizing political partisanship. That's a way it's been around here from day one. Yeah, a little levity, a good knee slapper now and then knee slapper coming up in future weeks on the show here, the real estate guys radio show host and a friend, Robert Helms, will be here to update us on what's happening in the short term rental market, mid term rental market and more. We'll also announce a big collaboration that he and I are going to do together this year, and you'll be invited to join us today, let's discuss cost segregation.

 

You can take your tax burden and put a huge dent in it by accelerating your real estate depreciation deduction with a cost segregation This could save you 1000s of dollars every year or more depending on the size of your real estate portfolio. We're talking about how to specifically do this with a cost seg expert. He's been a real estate investor for over 20 years. He builds new rentals to hold, and he and his son do that together. In fact, you're currently building a 24 unit complex now. But the reason he's here is because he started a specific cost segregation company in 2012 and he completes over 100 cost seg studies every year. So he's really the guy to talk to. Steve, welcome on to the show. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It's great to have an expert like you here and Steve, I think a lot of real estate investors, they're familiar with tax depreciation. That's where for rental property, with residential, there's a 27 and a half year schedule. And commercial has a 39 year schedule. We take the reciprocal of those numbers, and that means that, for example, in residential, you can write off about 3.6% of the improved property value every year. That's pretty nice on a 500k property that right there is 18k that can be sheltered from taxes annually. But most investors stop right there. So in a lot of cases, they aren't maximizing their tax benefit. You can write off substantially more than that, potentially. With a cost segregation. So tell us about it. 

 

Steve Trussell  10:04  

Cost Segregation. As you just mentioned, you have your regular depreciation, which most do take. Believe it or not, I've come across a few people that own property for a few years, and they're not taking it at all, which is, I don't understand that maybe they're doing on accounting, but we get them on track with that. But as you said, 27 and a half and 39 year depreciation, whether it's residential, 27 a half commercial, 39 that's all well and good, but there's a lot of money left on the table, because when you look at the the piece of real estate, there's a probably 22 to 32% of the asset itself, the depreciable asset that's shorter life, for example, cabinets, flooring, light fixtures, uh, outside the landscaping, retaining walls, things like that that are shorter life. So what we do in a cost segregation study, we go in and we rebuild the property through an engineered study, we pull out the five and the 15 year property and reclassified. And so usually you're going to wind up with about 70, 75% of it will stay on the schedule. It was on whether it be 27 and a half or 39 but then that 20 to 30% that we're going to bring forward is a huge number. So for example, I just recently did one. It was a duplex, $510,000 was the purchase 433, was the basis, after land, the depreciable basis. It was kicking out about 16,000 a year in regular depreciation. For the investor, which covered, you know, their cash flow and so forth, so forth. Most people know how that works. We were able to go back and accelerate it and get 131,000 or about 31% of it in 515, year property. So they had $131,000 depreciation amount sitting there. Then they still were able to write off the 302, that was left at 11,000 a year. So they're still getting their normal depreciation, a smaller number, but that 131,000 if they can use it with bonus depreciation, is $131,000 of money sitting there. They could offset $131,000 of income. That's a huge number. If they're not doing that now, they're leaving money on the table.

 

Keith Weinhold  12:01  

 Gosh, $131,000 of potential tax sheltering, which is, yeah, a huge number on a 500k duplex, like you described.

 

Steve Trussell  12:11  

It's a substantial number. And if you're not doing cost segregation, then you're leaving a lot of money on the table, like I said. So then it comes down to it. It's a, I guess, cost versus benefits. So the first thing we do is, I get the data from your purchase of your piece of real estate or server, whatever it is, we put together an estimate of benefit to give you an idea of what that would look like for you, like in this example, that's what we produced. Was what we thought we could bring forward for this investor. And then at that point, once we determine that you look at 131,000 the cost of our study is $1,830 so 131 versus 1830 is a pretty good bargain. I believe. I mean, I know I'm selling my product, but that's a pretty good bargain. Yeah. And then the third part of it is, so we've established that it's probably makes sense. But then can you use it? If you're a real estate professional, if you're familiar with what that means, you can write that off against your active and passive income. If you're not, you're a w2 and you're not quite there. Yet it may be that you don't do it now. You do it in a couple of years, but either way, the process is there when you can use it. Probably 80% of my investors are able to use it the year we do it. And if you don't use all of it, you carry it forward. So it's makes sense, typically, to do a cost segregation study, but that's what we help you establish by one, the estimate, and two, discussing with you or with your CPA, does this fit you? Is this something you can use as from a tax standpoint?

 

Keith Weinhold  13:37  

Yes, it was just a few episodes ago. I describe more about what real estate professional status is. The main thing is, typically, real estate needs to be you, the investor's principal activity. So it's not very likely that you're going to be a real estate professional if you still have a full time day job.

 

Steve Trussell  13:56  

There are doctors and lawyers and people like that that have a full time job, and they just could not justify spending the amount of time and being a real estate professional. But sometimes their wife would be the candidate to be that. So their wife becomes or this, or the husband. If the wife is there's the breadwinner, becomes the real estate professional, and then they can take that and write it off against their active income. And I don't want to jump into the CPA side of this. That's more of a CPA question, but that's how I understand it works. And I've seen that happen before, where someone who has a full time job is able to bring their spouse in as their real estate professional, and they're able to use utilize it that way.

 

Keith Weinhold  14:34  

Well, to talk more about this benefit of $131,000 on the duplex example that you gave, if all that is able to be deducted at a 30% income tax rate, that is 40k of savings. 40k is about 30% of this $131,000 number. So that's the money the increase in net income in your pocket.

 

Steve Trussell  15:00  

 yeah, which is substantial, and that's where you look at your individual tax break. I'm gonna save 40,000 in taxes, and I'm gonna spend $1,800 for the study. Makes sense to me to do that. It's pretty good return on your money, but it comes down to being able to use it. And so that's the things that we explore when I'm talking to a client. 

 

Keith Weinhold  15:19  

Now, Steve, I know in the past, I have talked to cost segregation engineers and their firms on the phone, where they've looked at some properties that I had, and I don't remember whether they charged me for this or not, but what I learned is it wouldn't be worth going ahead with a cost segregation study on and I'm thinking that they didn't charge me anything to tell me that, but really what I'm getting at is, can you tell us more about when it makes sense to do a cost seg on properties, and when it does not? 

 

Steve Trussell  15:46  

Well, there's okay if you're going to sell it the next few years, it does because you're going to recapture so you don't want to spend money for a study only to get the benefit for a year and then sell it and have to recapture it. Now, in my personal situation, I have done that because I bought more property and I was able to use the cost segregation to offset my gains versus a 1031 So by and large, it doesn't make sense. If you're going to sell it, that's number one. You may have owned it for eight or nine years, 10 years, maybe you've used a lot of your depreciation already. So that delta between the accelerated depreciation and which you've already taken may not be enough to make sense. It may be a property that's, you know, $80,000 probably doesn't make a lot of sense to spend the money. The mass just doesn't typically work there. I've done some as low as that because they wanted the tax benefit, and I'll do whatever the client wants me to do. But those are the three things that I would say probably would determine whether it makes sense or not. But that's where the estimate comes in. I mean, you bring me a property, and if it's $40,000 I'll tell you before I do anything, probably not worth messing with it. It's you're not gonna get much benefit. But if you bring me a property and it's $125,000 asset, we'll take a look at it. I'll do a quick estimate for you, no charge, and it'll either apply and make sense for you, or it won't. And I'll be the first to tell you, if it doesn't you know your individual tax situation, I'm just talking about the dollars that we create for you versus the cost. If it doesn't make sense, I'll tell you. I don't want you to waste your money doing a cost segregation study if you don't need it or can't use it. 

 

Keith Weinhold  17:14  

Okay, So there are a number of factors here, which could include how long the investors own the property, how soon they plan to sell the property. It sounds like there's generally a correlation here, with the larger the property, the more likely it is that it makes sense to do the study as well.

 

Steve Trussell  17:29  

It does. I have a client that I'm working on right now. He has six properties, and I think they were 2021, acquisition. So that was it four years ago, and they're not on a depreciation schedule, he hasn't taken anything. So in this case, it's, you certainly would want to do a cost segregation study, and that you need to have your properties on a depreciation schedule anyway, for whatever reason they weren't there. So in this case, if you came across a client that had a property for 10 years or for some reason it was never on a depreciation schedule, which that's, I don't know how that would happen, but let's assume it did. In that case, you would make sense to do because you're going to catch up all that depreciation from back, from 10 years ago all the way through today, which would even be a larger number. So that happens occasionally, rarely it happens, but it does happen where someone has never depreciated a property. 

 

Keith Weinhold  18:17  

We're talking with a man that can greatly reduce your tax burden. I think for one thing, first, he's gonna check to make sure that you're taking the basic tax depreciation. But beyond that, as you can see here, there's a potential to do a lot more with a cost segregation. You're listening to get rich education more when we come back on cost seg studies, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold. 

 

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Robert Helms  20:17  

 Hey everybody. It's Robert helms with the real estate guys radio program. So glad you found Keith whitehold and get rich education. Don't quit your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  20:32  

Welcome back to get rich education. I love talking about tax savings vehicles, because it's like a no risk instant ROI to you, that's what we're doing today, when we're talking about accelerating your depreciation and reducing your tax burden through a cost segregation. And Steve, in my experience, I know that you can't just ask anyone to go do this study, like your Slack John, uncle with a tape measure and sending him out there. It takes a person with a certain credential in a Cost Segregation engineering analysis. So can you tell us more about what physically needs to take place to have a cost seg done?

 

Steve Trussell  21:09  

Yeah, you're right. People. You could try to do this yourself, but it probably wouldn't pass muster with the IRS if you were to, if they were to question the study. One thing that we do, and most firms like mine would do also, we do back up the study, and we do guarantee that we will defend the study on your behalf. If there's a question, very rarely does it come up, but if there's a question from the IRS, we step in in your place and defend the study and justify how we arrived at these and that's only through a call to an engineered study. So if you have your your uncle, as you mentioned, doing it, it doesn't follow the audit technique guide. Doesn't follow the guides that are required for cost segregation study. You're probably going to find it getting kicked out and wind up owing taxes and penalties. So you want to make sure you're someone who's qualified and they do an engineer study, same thing as a CPA. CPAs aren't qualified to do a cost segregation study because it is an engineered study. We're breaking down the entire property and rebuilding it with our software on commercial buildings. You'd mentioned. What do we do? Commercial building? We do a physical site visit. We actually go to the property. Those are more expensive because we're there at the property and travel time and so forth. That to do that with engineers on residential we have a unique program. We do a virtual site visit where I can do this or my desktop, and that's why I'm able to keep the cost down. But we still do a site visit, because there's so many tools available today to be able to do a virtual site visit, I mean, for anywhere in the United States. So we can do this anywhere in the United States, and I take the tools that we have, the data I get from the client, we can do a virtual site visit and create the study from that 

 

Keith Weinhold  22:43  

really what the IRS is doing, whether this probably isn't reality, but you're saying your property wears out completely in 27 and a half years. That means that you can take some portion of that and depreciate it each year, but with some of these components that you mentioned, like the flooring and like the bushes. I think even the landscaping is one of the components that you can do a cost seg on. Basically they're saying that wears out faster. 

 

Steve Trussell  23:11  

Correct. Pretty much everything outside the building is 15 year life, sometimes even shorter than that. But that's how it classes 15 year life. Like your driveway, your like I said earlier, your retaining walls, grass, landscaping, fences, things like that, outdoor lighting, stuff like that. The inside the building is the five year property, which is your countertops, your flooring, fixtures. Think of things. I mean, floor is going to wear out before 27 half years, you're going to be replaced. You do it in your own home. Typically, you know? Well, I would never keep it for 27 and a half years. I would I wouldn't thank him in my house, but because they do wear out sooner. Tile is a little different animal. There's some debate about that, but for the most part, it's components like that that we're able to reclass in a five year classification. 

 

Keith Weinhold  23:54  

That's pretty generous. Grass wears out in 15 years.

 

Steve Trussell  23:58  

Well, it's a 15 year. Yeah, it dies. You know, things change landscape, things like that. So yeah, you do. Those can be classed at 15 years. 

 

Keith Weinhold  24:08  

All right, we've talked about the cost in terms of dollars a bit for what a cost segregation study might cost. How much time does it take from the time one is initiated?

 

Steve Trussell  24:16  

It depends. We could typically work with your schedule. I get a lot of last minute folks that get with me in September and they need their October 15, or even this September 15 depends on what kind of entry Do you have it in. And so we can turn these as quickly as you need it, typically, if I have all the data and all the information, especially if it's a residential where I'm not having to travel, but by and large, I can turn these in less than 30 days back to you, and if you need it sooner, we'll burn the midnight oil and get it done for you. That's during crutch time for between January 1 and April 15. If you file early or on time, if you file in October and you extend your taxes and the automatic extension in April, you've got to have the study done before you file. Your taxes. So if you wanted it for 2024 you need to have a study completed by April 15 of 2025 if you're going to file it April 15, if you're gonna file in October, the automatic extension, you need to have it completed by then. So our busy season is January through April 15, and then probably starting July, August time frame through October 15. That's our busy season. So the point of it, if you're going to do a study and use it for your current tax year, it must be completed no matter when you purchased it, but it must be completed prior to you filing your taxes, so you can use it on that tax return.

 

Keith Weinhold  25:35  

All right, so we're just getting into Steve's busy season. So if you think this can benefit you. You want to initiate that sooner rather than later. But Steve, when we talk more about the benefits, we've had a change in presidential administration. So tell us more about the bonus depreciation benefit.

 

Steve Trussell  25:53  

Your bonus appreciation came out in the previous administration before this last one, Trump's first administration that came out of that. So the anything where you reclass is five, seven and 15, your property, but it's 100% bonus. In other words, if you go back to the 131,000 I mentioned on the duplex, all of that in between September 2017 through December 31 to 2022 you get 100% of that. It's starting in January of 2023 through the end of december 23 it went to 80% and the next year, 60, and in 2025 it's going to be 40. But there's been an extension that was passed last in 2024 in the house to go back to the 100% installed in the Senate. And we think with the new administration, we'll probably in the new tax cuts, we'll probably see this reinstated and go back to the 100% which is substantial. If you're getting, you know, 60% of the 131, what is that? 78,000 bucks, roughly, something like that. And if you're getting 100% that's a big difference. So we're hopeful that we'll see that sometime in the first quarter. And so even if you file your taxes in April and it hasn't passed yet and you've only gotten four, you only get 40% bonus depreciation. You'll get that extra 60 the next year. What's happening now, though, before it, if it without being stated, you're still getting a bigger benefit. Because, as I mentioned before, the 131 comes forward, and you get the percentage of that the 302 is left over. In that example I used earlier, you've got your regular 27 net fear depreciation, but that 131 is still five and 15 year property, so you're depreciating that much faster than you would on a 27 after your schedule. So you're still getting a benefit, just not as good as when you get 100% bonus depreciation.

 

Keith Weinhold  27:34  

Okay. And again, when you're talking about five, seven and 15 year property, you're talking about those component lifespans, correct, where we reclass that bonus depreciation benefit started out at 100% a few years ago. It's been stepping down 20% each year, and that is set to most likely refresh here sometime this year, back to the full 100% bonus depreciation. And if that does indeed happening you the listener. You're going to be hearing about that from your real estate investor friends and your social media feed and everything else, and you're going to maybe be feeling left out of that unless you get on top of it and take part of this. That's exactly what we're talking about doing right now. Steve, why don't you talk to us about some of those other components that are included or excluded from a cost segregation study, whether that's lighting fixtures or parking lot asphalt, tell us more.

 

Steve Trussell  28:27  

Exterior is the 15 year life we talked about, the parking lots, the big residential the driveways, the landscaping, the fencing, retaining walls, bushes, the things that are gonna be outside. Okay, everything outside is 15 years pretty much, yes. And then when you go inside, look at the things that you would typically change out. You're not gonna change your plumbing. It's in your foundation and your walls, unless it breaks. You're not gonna change your roof. Is also, even though you change it out, it's also a permanent part of the structure. The roof is but the inside the house you have your or even outside, you've got your brick on the outside of your siding, that's 27 half for your property inside the cabinets, your countertops, flooring, your decorative light fixtures, the your plumbing fixtures, things like that, glass mirrors, things like that, that are going to be naturally shorter life. And it's pretty easy to look at a piece of property and see what's permanent again, like I use the example, the foundation, the studs in the wall, the brick, the she rock on the wall, those things are permanent fixtures. It's the things that are movable parts, typically, that you could look at, and that makes up 22 to 32% I've had to go higher, but 22 to 32 is a good range of the asset from five year and 15 year.

 

Keith Weinhold  29:42  

All right, so really, the dividing line for Cost Segregation is stated as what is a permanent fixture and what is not permanent. 

 

Steve Trussell  29:50  

Yeah, probably in the general sense, yeah, I would say that. Well, are there any

 

Keith Weinhold  29:53  

other things that one should know about a cost segregation study, whether that's myths or misunderstandings that need. To be cleared up, or just anything else at all. One needs to know about a cost segregation study. A couple

 

Speaker 3  30:05  

things. One, the myth is that a lot of people think that it triggers audits that you're changing your accounting or you're getting this big bonus depreciation that's in the tax law, and so you're just taking advantage of the same zero to depreciation. Putting depreciation on your schedule, on your tax return, doesn't trigger audits. I mean, that's just buying property and you're putting it on the return. Accelerated depreciation doesn't either, because you do an engineered study. So part of the myth people think that they're going to call it, it's going to trigger an audit. It doesn't. It's a standard practice that accepted by the IRS and the study. The only thing that might, that might trigger isn't the agent. If they're doing an audit of your taxes, they might look at the study and say, Why did you classify this as this but this amount? Well, we go back through our data and our study through our software, and we could prove out how we came up with that value, and that's what they would ask. Is something like that, but it doesn't trigger an audit necessarily, just because you do a study. Second thing I've said this, I'll save all my clients. I said a couple times here, it's important that you can use it, that you can use the benefit. It does not do any good to go spend money for a study and get $131,000 appreciation, like I mentioned earlier, and it just sits there your w2 income, and you can't use it towards that that's far exceeds what you're making on your property. There's still a point in doing that until you can use it. There are other companies out there. They won't discuss that with you. They'll just tell you, you know, let's do a cost segregation study, because you get all these great benefits, but it doesn't do any good if you can't use it. Like I said that 131 be sitting on your depreciation schedule. That's bonus depreciation, but you're not able to do anything with it. If you're a high earner and you're not a real estate professional, you can't use it. So just be aware of that. If anybody brings a cost segregation study to you, and they don't discuss with you how it benefits you, I just be aware of that it's got to benefit you. What's the point if it doesn't 

 

Keith Weinhold  31:57  

that's a really great reminder you want to have this done the right way with someone that knows it can benefit you and more than offset the cost of the study. Maybe I should just bring up one example here of maybe a common turnkey property that a listener might buy that's not very high cost. Say that someone buys a fully rehabilitated, just $180,000 rental single family home built in the 1970s two bed, one bath. I'm sure there are some. It depends factors, but in general, would that be a candidate for a Cost Segregation if that were a new purchase for an investor?

 

Steve Trussell  32:35  

I do it all the time, because it doesn't matter how old the property is. What matters is when you purchases. That's when your start date hits and or when you sell it to start date for the next person as well. So yeah, in that case, you're going to take roughly 15% for land. We go to the county website and see what they're using for land, and if they're using 6% that's what we'll use. But 15% is acceptable by the IRS. So in that case, 15% is what $27,000 so your 147 I think, would be your depreciable amount in it, 25% of that is 25 and almost $40,000 of depreciation versus an $1,800 study. And so if you're in a third step bracket, you're gonna save 12,000 in taxes and spend 1800 to save it. I mean, I would swap 1800 for 12,000 Gosh, any time. So, yeah, it would work. But then that comes down to, you know, you individually. What do you do for a living? What's your income? Like it would what level of income you're at. But can you use the 40,000 and celebrate depreciation? And that can be determined between a conversation with me, you and probably your CPA, so they know your tax situation the best, and then I really like the CPA to be involved. It's up to the client, but I'd prefer them to be involved so they know exactly what we're doing. Some CPAs aren't that familiar with it, so we can help them with getting this on the tax schedule. If they need us to on depreciation schedule, they really want the CPA to be involved if the client is comfortable with it because they know your tax situation the best. I can create the benefit for you. They can help you determine if you can use it.

 

Keith Weinhold  34:08  

That's a good point. I would imagine that there are some tax preparers that have never seen this on one of their clients returns before, so that's a great help. And that was an awesome breakdown of just how things might actually look for someone. It just kind of has that most basic, low cost, 180k turnkey property. Steve, before I ask you if you have any last thoughts or anything else that the listeners should know if you want to connect with Steve, do that in the same way that you learn about our properties and our providers at GRE marketplace.com, click in the coaching area, your investment coach is going to help connect you with Steve all of his resources and adjacent resources that are helpful with you. Steve, is there any last thing that someone ought to know?

 

Speaker 3  34:50  

I just think if you own property at all, it makes sense to get an estimate for cost segregation. It doesn't cost you anything. And then we could decide to. Together Again, like I said, along with your CPA, here's my benefit. Can I use it? And they cost you nothing to do that. Your CPA may charge you some time, I'm not sure, but working with me to get through the estimate phase up to the benefit, what's gonna look like for you that we do that for free, and so if you own any property, it makes sense to take a look at it or just have a phone conversation, because if you call me, you tell me, I make $300,000 a year. I'm a engineer, doctor, whatever it happens to be, and I work full time. My wife works full time. I'm probably gonna tell you, you know, you're probably not a candidate right now, because, like, we'd be a great benefit, but you can't use this great benefit right now. Let's revisit it when maybe you can. So it's just worth a phone conversation and you get me the data that I need, which is pretty simple stuff. I could put together an estimate before you turn it around and you decide, what if it makes sense for you? 

 

Keith Weinhold  35:48  

Yeah, if you have that conversation with Steve and worst case scenario, you can't use it, you better believe you're going to come off being pretty well informed in knowing the next time that you can use it, perhaps on your next purchase. Well, this has been supremely helpful, Steve. A lot of people are going to benefit from it. It's been great having you here on the show to talk about cost segregation.

 

Steve Trussell  36:09  

I appreciate you having me. Thank you very much.

 

Keith Weinhold  36:17  

Like Steve said, it's about 22 to 32% of the depreciable assets value, which is that house or building, not the land, can be deducted at an accelerated depreciation rate, faster than the 27 and a half year residential or 39 year Commercial depreciation rate. And Steve told me that before some investors even buy property, they will ask him how it would look with a cost segregation and hold on the numbers, and that way you can use it for your pro forma ROI calculation. Yeah, before you've even purchased a property, like I said, you can't have your Slack John uncle do a cost seg study. Plus your uncle is in slack jawed. Anyway. In fact, I'm the only slack jaw you've ever known. Now, I personally plan to send Steve a copy of my depreciation schedule so he can tell me how things would look for my properties. He can do this for you just the same. There is no charge. It's best to submit everything by mid March at the latest, if you file your taxes in mid April. So we are now in their busy season at GRE marketplace, that's where you do more than connect with our investment coaches and properties. There are also service providers, including Steve. Our coaches are there to help you optimize your ROI. This is a type of thing where if you think it's a good idea, you know you're probably not going to pick this up later if you don't move at the speed of instruction now. So if you think that it can benefit you from GRE marketplace.com, click in the coaching area. Get that set up, and we'll connect you to Steve and help you with anything else that you might need in your real estate portfolio. Until next week, I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 4  38:13  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  38:41  

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The podcast dives into dramatic global real estate trends, with home prices skyrocketing over 10% in countries like Colombia and the Netherlands.

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Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:02  

Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, we look at global home price change, the asset class rundown, then the homelessness crisis is mega bad. It just reached new, unprecedented levels, and real estate and inflation has a lot to do with the homelessness surge today on get rich education.

 

Speaker 1  0:28  

Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, who delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show. Guess who? Top Selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com

 

Corey Coates  1:13  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:29  

Welcome to GRE from Kent Washington to Tashkent, Uzbekistan and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are listening to get rich education. One reason for a not just national, but global, rise in real estate prices is that you can't fake it. Real property is not a derivative, yeah, you can't fake it. So this really emphasizes the word real in real estate. It's not a crypto within infinite supply. It's not an NFT. You can't fake construction. You can't fake real materials put into property, from concrete to kitchen cabinets. So in the year recently ended, as we catch up to global home prices and select nations, per Fitch Ratings. Let's do that because it was not just a US centric thing. In the Netherlands, the home price change last year was 13% you had that much appreciation in the Netherlands. Colombia, 10% Mexico up 9.3% Brazil had 8% home price appreciation. Australia, 5.2% Australia has just seen year over year home price appreciation for such a long time. The UK had 5% appreciation. Spain, 5% as well. The USA, 4% just like I predicted at the end of 2023 for 2024 It did indeed come in at 4% Canada also had exactly 4% home price appreciation last year, just like the USA did. Denmark 3% Italy and Japan each at two and a half percent. Germany home prices were up just one and a half percent. And France had home prices that fell 3% China had home prices that fell 7.8% that supply versus demand thing in China, where they massively overbuilt, that's why home prices are down there. And as I unveil the depths of the USS homelessness crisis later here on the show, you will see that, yeah, those appreciated real estate prices, like I just mentioned, they have a lot to do with it. Now you might think of the youngest generation, the generation after Gen Z, as generation alpha, and that is true. However, they are no longer the youngest generation, because the babies born on New Year's Day of this year not only got to be featured in feel good local news stories. You know what? They are, also the first members of generation, beta, yeah, which will include children born from 2025 through 2039 so that is the future and the future demographic that's going to demand housing. But first of all, let's look at a year that was yes for years here on the show, we have our asset class rundown shortly after most quarters end, and certainly after a year ends. And today is no different, and this is because at times you've got to compare real estate with the other investment options that are out there. We now have music to play for our asset class rundown feature each time for today and. Future shows. And I know the GRE sound engineer has got to like this. He's also a DJ dropit, Vedrand. Here is GRE 's asset class rundown for the 12 months of last year, residential real estate values were up 4% per the NARS. Single Family existing home price, like I said earlier, single family rents up about 2% per core logic, apartment rents pretty flat, down six tenths of 1% for the year per apartment list, office buildings were down in value 9% the 30 year fixed rate mortgage. It started last year at 6.6% everyone, I mean, everyone, thought that they would go lower, but nope, they ended at 6.9% a little higher. That's per Freddie Mac survey. The s5&p 100 index was up over 23% topping out at 6100 last year. That is the first time the s&p has been up 20% plus in back to back years since 1998 and the s&p is meant to represent 500 companies, but it has become so concentrated due to the rise of the Magnificent Seven stocks that its effective diversification is less than 60 stocks. Morgan Stanley just announced that they expect the SP500, 100 returns to be flat for the next decade due to lofty valuations. Do you know that since 2000 gold has outperformed the s&p last year, gold shot up from about $2,000 peaked near $2,800 and then ended up about 30% for last year, the yield on the 10 year T note was up 63 basis points last year, basically rising from four up to 4.6% by year end. What that means is that that signals higher inflation expectations. Bitcoin up an astounding 111% to end last year around 95k and it topped out at an all time high of 108k oil up just 2% to 72 bucks and a wild card for you. Through October, Bible sales were up 22% compared to the same period versus the previous year. That is GRE 's asset class rundown. It was. 

 

This is get rich education. Let's drop back and do some learning before I update you on housing and the homelessness crisis. Now, a lot of Americans don't really know history that well, and not very many have a good financial education either. But you know, it is quite possible that even the next person you spot in a Trader Joe's aisle has heard of Adam Smith in his landmark 1776 book The Wealth of Nations. Did you know that Adam Smith is the one credited with actually inventing the very concept of supply and demand? Yeah, Adam Smith, a Scotsman is credited with that. He is known as the father of modern economics. You might have already known that. Well, of course, supply versus demand seems to be a more relevant concept than usual. Here with the housing shortage crisis, Adam Smith, he proposed the idea of what he called an invisible hand, that is the tendency of free markets to regulate themselves using competition, supply and demand and self interest, a Darwinian sort of struggle. Really, did you know that he also created the concept of gross domestic product? Yeah, prior to Adam Smith's work, most people considered a nation's wealth based on the amount of gold and silver reserves that they had stored. But Adam Smith said no, it's more about productivity quantified in this GDP in a lot of his work. It also discusses the evolution of human society from a hunter stage with no property rights and no fixed residences, to nomadic agriculture with shifting residences. And then the next stage after that is a feudal society, where laws and property rights are established to protect privileged classes. And finally, that modern society is characterized by laissez faire or free markets, so a good chunk of Adam Smith's work revolved around real estate. Now, the history of economics like that is a phrase that sounds boring. Maybe it is to some people, but as an investor, the least that you should know about Adam Smith's landmark book The Wealth of Nations from the year 1776 is that to review, he invented the supply demand concept. He created the GDP concept, and he championed free markets. That's something you're going to appreciate knowing in your investor life. And also supply demand, as I discussed that in the homelessness problem shortly. 

 

we are a real estate show, and, you know, I just don't hear other real estate shows talk about, well, the unfortunate, I guess, absence of real estate in an increasing number of people's lives now, even if you have a home, learn about how homelessness is gonna make your life worse, too. In fact, it already has. I'm not sure if you've noticed, I will get into that as well. First listen to these two spots, freedom, family investments for an eight to 10% return on your liquid capital and Ridge lending group, they specialize in income property loans. They can really help you, and I would know, because I use them both my self. I'm Keith Weinhold. This is get rich education. Here you go.

 

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Hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine, at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage, you can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com

 

Ken McElroy  12:41  

this is Rich Dad advisor, Ken McElroy. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  12:57  

Welcome back. You're listening to get rich education Episode 536, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, it is bad. America just hit a record high homelessness number, and it is up double digits, over 18% in just one year. It is even worse when we look at family homelessness and the rise in that and gosh, get this unaccompanied youth homeless, meaning like a 15 year old kid homeless and drifting by themselves. And this is all in the most powerful nation in the world. And even if you have a home. Homelessness is gonna make your life worse, too. We'll also look at how Trump wants to address this. It is major. And finally, are there any solutions to the homelessness crisis in America today? Well, there are now over 771,000 homeless in America, that's up from 653k just last year. And yes, the homeless can be hard to count, but as long as the methodology stays the same, I mean, there you go with the 18% increase. And here's the thing from all the years, from 2007 to 2023, all 16 of those years, we only saw a total increase of 19% during that entire span, and now 18% in just one year this latest year. I mean, talk about exponential and accelerating homelessness growth. And before I tell you about why this is happening, let's get a better idea of the gravity of this sad situation here, and this is all from HUD's newly released annual homelessness assessment report to Congress among subgroups families with children saw the biggest increase as. At 39% year over year. You think that's sad, but consider how sad this is. Unaccompanied homeless children, they're up 10% in just a year, and that was only up 3.4% all of the previous 16 years combined. Veterans are the only group to see a decrease, and the number of homeless people over 65 so we're talking seniors here that is expected to almost triple by 2030 that is just five years away, and it is just widespread too. I mean, nearly no US geography is immune from this spike in homelessness, from Florida to Maine to California to Alaska. Now, even if you have a home, the shoes of that are pretty good, if you're listening to me, you know, why does this even make your life worse? Well, of course, first of all, homelessness can make your city blighted. But beyond that, just think about how many ways it's just changing your week in and week out routine. I mean, have you noticed, like, just take, for example, when you or I walk into some grocery stores anymore. I mean, I notice how different things are than they were just say, five years ago. I mean, you've got to notice some of these things now, more often than there was just a few years ago, there's an armed guard when you walk into a store near the entrance. Well, someone is paying for that security, whether it's the store passing the price along to you, or whether it's a government or municipality paying that, well, that's where your tax money goes. And what about when you're shopping the aisles of a supermarket, or, say, CVS? Well, now even kind of moderately priced items like bottles of moisturizer, they are under lock and key behind a Plexiglas case. That's inconvenient while you're shopping if you need to use the bathroom, oh, now you need to go get a key or learn the door code to access the bathrooms. That's inconvenient when you're done and as you walk out of the store now, they are more likely to have an attendant that checks your receipts on the way out, and this is just one example at the supermarket. I mean, so many of your patterns are changing due to poor people getting poorer, and the homelessness crisis, if you're in a rural area, it probably affects you less. But just take a look around and notice the change. We're not talking about the change from your parents era, but just in your own life over the past, say, three to five years, homelessness is not good for an area's crime rate either. I mean, it is not good to have desperate people, hungry people, these people have nothing to lose if you're homeless and you commit a crime and go to jail. Hey, that might be an upgrade for some people now you've got a warm, clean place to stay in jail. So now that you and I understand more about why this even affects you and I let's talk about why is homelessness growing at this alarming rate, well, higher prices for real estate, which really accelerated in 2021 and they are not going to relent. As I've said elsewhere, home prices are not going to go down in a meaningful way anytime soon as just three weeks ago. Here on our forecast episode, I forecast another 5% of national home price appreciation this year. And it's not just higher prices, it's higher rents. Rents really started taking off in 2021 as well. Well. Higher rents, that means more evictions, and an eviction is the start of homelessness for a lot of people. And a third reason for this surge in homelessness is just that overall lack of housing. I have covered that extensively elsewhere. Yes, the housing supply crisis, and as I'm known for saying, the housing crash already occurred. Did you miss it? It was a supply crash that occurred about five years ago, and a lot of agencies think we're under supplied by 3.7 million housing units. Now, when you look at the new HUD supplied map of homelessness by state, you can very much see that it is about housing, because those regions with the highest home prices generally have the most homelessness. We're talking about the Northeast, the West Coast and Hawaii. And the fourth reason for the homelessness surge is that, of course, inflation started accelerating about four years ago, and people just cannot make ends meet anymore. CPI inflation peaked at 9.1% back. In June of 2022 and year over year, prices are still going up 3% today. Prices are not going down. They're just rising at a slower rate. And of course, inflation hurts the poor and actually helps the wealthy, exacerbating the inequality Canyon the wealthy have assets. Those assets float up in value with inflation and the prices at the grocery store are just a tiny part of a wealthy person spending. But the poor don't own assets that float up with the inflation and higher grocery prices and things like electric bills, well, they comprise a big part of a poor person's income. And fifthly, the massive arrival of immigrants pushed up homeless numbers these past, oh, three or so years. And it remains to be seen how many of those people really get deported. And you know, a sixth reason for homelessness. It's not something new, it's what I'll call all of these background reasons that have been there for decades and are not going away, like how a medical emergency can even drain a middle class person's savings and things like ongoing substance abuse. I mean, drug users often cannot stay employed. So there you have it. What was that? Six big reasons that I've identified for surging homelessness now let's see what Donald Trump has to say and understand that, due to last June Supreme Court decision, Trump now has got more power to clear out encampments and make life for the homeless more difficult, opening the door now to be criminally charged for trespassing and illegal camping. I mean, you really don't want to be homeless today as part of what Trump calls his agenda 47 his plan to tackle homelessness. Here is his preamble. 

 

Donald Trump  21:57  

Our once great cities have become unlivable, unsanitary nightmares surrendered to the homeless, the drug addicted and the violent and dangerously deranged. We're making many suffer for the whims of a deeply unwell few, and they are unwell. Indeed, the homeless have no right to turn every park and sidewalk into a place for them to squat and do drugs. Americans should not have to step over piles of needles and waste as they walk down a street in a beautiful city, or at least once beautiful city, because they've changed so much over the last 10 years. 

 

Keith Weinhold  22:40  

So that's the problem. Here's the solution. I'll boil down the meat of the Trump agenda, 47 homeless statement to just the most salient 40 seconds for you here. Just listen to this, and as you listen in closely, note that this is not a housing first plan for the homeless. Instead, it's treatment first.

 

Donald Trump  23:03  

Under my strategy, working with states, we will ban urban camping wherever possible. Violators of these bans will be arrested, but they will be given the option to accept treatment and services if they're willing to be rehabilitated. Many of them don't want that, but we'll give them the option. We will then open up large parcels of inexpensive land, bring in doctors, psychiatrists, social workers and drug rehab specialists, and create tent cities where the homeless can be relocated and their problems identified. But we'll open up our cities again, make them livable and make them beautiful.

 

Keith Weinhold  23:43  

Okay, it's not housing first, because, see, he wants to ban urban camping, something that parallels the Supreme Court decision. What this is not is that it is not giving the homeless hotels in the city, like some cities have recently done, converting their hotels into homeless shelters. Instead, this is designating large parcels of cheap land for tent cities, but outside the urban core, like in a big grassy lot, and then bringing in social workers and rehab specialists for them, and that way, his solution is that this city is free of homeless people, and really that is the crux of Trump's plan. But what are some other solutions here? And these are now my insights, not Trump's, that is, build more housing. That's really simple. I mean, this will naturally slow down, accelerating home prices and spiking rents, and we've got to relax regulation and zoning. We had a zoning expert, Nolan gray on the show here last year. Some scholars believe that we should just eliminate zoning in America completely. And one. One way to relax regulation is to Gosh, revisit some of these over the top safety concerns. I mean, look, it increases the cost of the most basic entry level housing when every home needs to have all these thick, fire rated doors and smoke detectors all over the place, and carbon monoxide detectors everywhere, and GFCI electrical outlets all over the place. I mean, hey, it sounds kind of funny to say out loud, but all this stuff contributes to making affordable housing impossible. And another solution is that you've got to kill nimbyism in a lot of cases, yes, that not in my backyard. Ism, you know, a person can act like they're all pro development, and like they're all free market, and they want to have their home built just how they want it, where they want it, but you know what, as soon as their home was built, they don't want others moving near them, yeah, somehow the free market's not so great anymore, okay? And they sure don't want apartment buildings nearby. Well, that is what we need, allowing taller structures to be built. That is called up zoning. It doesn't have to be a gigantic apartment building either. We need more, mmm, properties, multi families, missing middle. That means building more two, three and four unit structures in single family neighborhoods, duplexes, triplexes, fourplexes, because a lot of those can be built so that they look like single family homes. But yet it's something affordable and it helps with density. Another solution to deal with homelessness is to, of course, bring down inflation. The government needs to stop printing, say, $1 trillion to pay for a program, whether that's sending aid to foreign nations or whatever that program is. When more dollars are created like that, it debases the currency everyone else is holding on to, including your dollars, and it makes everyone from landlords to grocers have to raise their prices. And you know, here's the funny thing in the last election for president that we had last year, well, that administration got voted out of office, and many say that the number one reason was due to high inflation, but yet, look at what they voted for with the incoming administration. Everyone expects higher inflation. So there's a real paradox there. 

 

On our YouTube channel, you can watch videos of me going out outdoors and interviewing the homeless. In fact, I'm surprised at how many homeless let me into their tents, and they wanted to show me their makeshift shelters and tell me about their life. I mean, that's kind of the good news. They were open. They were friendly people. I think they really wanted that to get exposed, because they were hoping that people would see that to come do something for them. I think that's why they've been so open with me. So that was good on the flip side, oh gosh. One thing that they have in common is that they all seemingly want to blame somebody else for the condition that they're in other than themselves, like the government or including telling me that landlords are greedy. But it really is fascinating to see from our get rich education YouTube channel, which is different content from this show. Just search the word homeless there on the get rich education YouTube channel and you can see it. 

 

Hey, I want to ask you something. What is your on ramp to real estate investing? Like, how did you approach it? Or how did you get into it? I mean, mine was as a disgruntled employee. That's it. I didn't come from a complimentary professional place. I mean, that's how I became an investor, and there was nothing wrong with my job position. Specifically, I worked with good people and everything. In fact, I had an easy and safe job, and it paid a little bit well. But, you know, safe is not the place to be. Safety is the opposite of freedom. As an employee, you know, I could see that 401 K type plans. They were designed so that you don't get income from them until you're old. It's a salary reduction plan all those working years as well. Well, no wonder that your employer encourages participation in them. That way they're going to keep you working as an employee until retirement, because that's when they're designed to generate income. But see my point here, really is that I did not have a complimentary skill set to real estate investing, and if you do, it can be to your advantage. So you know what I mean. Let's take a couple of friends of. The show here, Robert Helms, host of the terrific real estate guys radio show. He came from a real estate agent family. His dad was an agent. Well, that can help you find deals. How about Ken McElroy, another frequent guest on the show here, very successful real estate investor. Well, he was a property manager before he became a real estate investor, totally complementary skill set. And by the way, two months ago in New Orleans, I was invited to participate in a collective inner circle mastermind group session that Robert and Ken help run. That was cool, but getting back to complementary skill sets, Michael Becker, a former guest here on the show, he was a lender, so he got to see the paperwork of all these successful investors. So he became one himself. I mean, as a lender, you keep seeing savvy investors leverage themselves with debt and then do cash out refinances, a tax free windfall event, all while they keep the asset too well. He wanted to get in on some of that. And I also know real estate investors that started out as handymen, okay, a hands on trade that can totally help when you're starting out as a real estate investor. So do you have a complimentary skill set that can help make you a successful real estate investor. If you don't, then don't despair, because you know what? I don't have one myself. I was just a former employee that wanted something else. I don't have a complimentary skill set to real estate investing. No transferable professional skill. Instead of that, I just became a reader, but not a massive reader. Of course, I was a learner before I was a teacher. I enjoyed learning this stuff, and I also got a good grasp on the numbers and how that works. But importantly, my advantage was I take action, I just keep adding property to my portfolio. You just got to keep doing that, regardless of what's happening in the larger economy or what prices are or what interest rates are.

 

 And as you know, last week, I discussed the advantages of owning and building with brand new build rental property today, and you know, new build and these build to rent properties, those are things that that really wasn't even available when I started out investing. Well, it wasn't. I mean, with new build, oh, your maintenance repair costs are going to be low. You tend to attract a high quality tenant that also tends to stay for a while. Insurance costs tend to be lower on new build. And there's a bigger advantage than all of that in the market cycle right now that I'll get into shortly. Well, historically, the long run average. Do you have any idea what proportion of homes for sale are new build homes? Any guess, like, what share of those homes are new? It's only about one in eight. Yeah, the Census Bureau and the NAR tell us that it's 13% historically. Okay, well, what do you think it is today? Well, today, that number is up. Existing homeowners, they're not selling those homes aren't getting on the market as often due to the lock in effect, and we have to add supply. So in order to do that, we are building more new there's just no other way to bring it to market. Well, today, the proportion of new build homes for sale among all homes for sale is fully double that, at 26% although we're still undersupplied of homes in the US by about 30% you know there are pockets where they've overbuilt with new builds, including in Florida and Texas. So the time could really be right to expand your income property portfolio in one of those places, because builders that we work with at GRE marketplace are really willing to give you a deal now you've got them right where you want them if you're looking for a deal. How does a four and three quarter percent interest rate sound? Yes. Rates on non owner occupied property are about eight right now. They're about seven on owner occupied property, but we've got builders willing to buy your rate down to 4.75% and they're also offering one year of free property management and three months of rent guarantee protection in case your property is not occupied right away. The first one is a brand new build duplex in Inverness, Florida, two beds, two baths, each side, price of 420k projected rent from both sides at $2,830 and the size is 2100 square feet. I mean the. That sounds like it could make your cash flow thin, until you consider that 4.75% fixed mortgage rate the property tax is about one and a half percent and insurance get this projected at just $1,155 a year for an entire new build duplex, and now you might ask, what could the rate of return be on this Florida duplex new build? Well, I projected 5% appreciation for this year. New builds tend to appreciate better than existing property, but let's just use 5% if you have a 25% down payment, that's four to one leverage. So you've got a 20% return on your money. And let's just keep it conservative. When we look at monthly cash flow, that results in a 5% cash on cash return. Add that to your 20% leverage appreciation, you're up to a 25% ROI already. Add in the fact that your tenant is paying down your principal for you by $405 every month. That's 4860 annually, divided by your 105k down payment. That means you've got another four and a half percent return here. Let's just call it four. You're up to a 29% total ROI we haven't even added in yet, your tax depreciation benefit, and now you're up to a return in the mid 30s. Finally, your inflation profiting benefit on your fixed amortizing debt, and you are well into the 40s for a percent return on an annual basis. And of course, most of these are only projections. It could disappoint you at 30 or less, still a nice return, or it could over perform at 50% or more. I mean, this right here is how wealth is built. I mean, this is how you do something that disrupts your entire family tree that was the new build duplex. Then I'll share one other one with you. Here from GRE marketplace. Is a single family rental. This one is in Locust Grove, Georgia. Gosh, it looks really good in the photo here with a two car garage and some brick facing, its price is 339k rent is 2350 The size is 2164 square feet, so only a little bigger than the duplex here in this new build, Georgia, single family rental, four beds, two baths, beautiful looking new construction on the inside, open floor plan, stainless steel appliances, I can't tell whether the floor is LVP or wood laminate, but it's got a flooring type that's resilient, that tenants like, and your rate of return is going to be similar to the duplex ROI that I laid out, though probably not quite as high as the duplex. I mean, with these interest rate buy downs, these could very well be the property types where, in just five years time, maybe even as little as two or three years time after owning them, you look back and you consider how opportunistic you work in this part of the market cycle where there are now more new builds that you can choose from, and a builder was willing To make you a deal to keep their product moving, because they build a little too much in some pockets of Florida, for example. So yes, these and more like them are available, and there are more in Florida, Georgia, Alabama and a number of other states. And you know, something I don't think I shared with you earlier, it's convenient. You can get a spot with one of our GRE investment coaches right on their calendars, you can look at their calendar and pick a date and time that's convenient for you. For a free coaching session, they will learn about you. They'll let you know where the real deals are, if they're right for you at all, all you've got to do is visit GRE marketplace.com, and click on the free investment coaching area. There you are with some real opportunities and an actionable resource. Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 2  39:17  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively you

 

Keith Weinhold  39:45  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get rich, education.com

 

 

Keith discusses the pros and cons of investing in single-family rentals versus apartment buildings.

He highlights that less than 10% of U.S. building materials are imported, reducing the impact of tariffs.

Single-family rentals offer better tenant quality, lower vacancy rates, and higher appreciation potential. They also have lower financing costs and are more divisible. 

Conversely, apartment buildings offer economies of scale and lower per-unit maintenance costs.

He emphasizes the importance of owning more property, especially new-builds, which offer lower insurance premiums and attractive financing options

Work with expert investment coaches to find the best off-market deals and maximize your returns. 

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Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, talking about how most home building materials are US sourced and not affected by tariffs, the little understood pros and cons of investing in apartment buildings versus single family rental homes, then what really makes sense to invest in in this particular era and more today on Get Rich Education.

 

Speaker 1  0:28  

since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show, guess who? Top Selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com

 

Corey Coates  1:13  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:29  

Welcome GRE from Tallahassee, Florida to Waxahachie, Texas and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are inside, G, R, E, we are here for you every Monday, without fail, 52 weeks a year, and we have never replayed an old episode either, always original content. Thanks for being here, but you're not here for me. You are here for you as another year dawns before we get into the meaty real estate content of today's show, including single family rentals versus apartments. Take a moment to check in with your own goals. Maybe you think about that is just buying your first investment property, or maybe you own 83 rental units, and you're looking to get to 100 this year. But no matter really real estate is just the fuel for your goal. It's probably not the end goal itself is your goal to have the time freedom to watch all of your kids basketball games this year. What about beyond this year? Are you really dreaming big enough you've got to question yourself on that sometimes, for example, forget flying first class. What if you want to own your own private jet, like Taylor Swift's luxurious Dassault 7x jet for $54 million? how about real estate fueling a dream that's even bigger than that? Yet, last month, the Philadelphia Eagles received the NFL approval for the sale of an 8% interest of the team to two different family investors. Okay, do you find say that interesting owning part of a major pro sports team. And by the way, what would something like that look like for you? I mean, do you even have the headspace to conceive of such a thing? It's good to ask yourself questions like this. Sometimes that sale was based on a valuation of the team of up to $8.3 billion and yet, after all that, the Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie, he still maintains complete control of the team. Okay, so if each of the two family investors got a 4% interest at this valuation, that is up to a $332 million investment for each family. Maybe that could be a Weinhold the family goal. We'll see about that one. And you know, when it comes to making yourself a bigger you and dreaming a bigger dream, I like to listen to what the doers say. I found it so interesting in a Jeff Bezos interview at the deal book Summit, Bezos said it's human nature to overestimate risk and underestimate opportunity. Bezos also said entrepreneurs would be well advised to try and bias against that piece of human nature, the risks are probably not as big as you perceive, and the opportunities may be bigger than you perceive. That's the end of what bezel said. I really think that that's spot on stuff. now two weeks ago, when I gave GREs national home price appreciation forecast for this year. You might remember that I said that potential Trump tariffs just don't matter as much as people think when it comes to real estate. And understanding more about why I say this, it can help you understand real estate materials and sourcing and home building in the United States, America's overwhelming majority of sourced building materials are not imported, so therefore something like a supply chain bottleneck that's more worth watching, really. It's a huge misunderstanding of the home building market to assume that most building materials come from overseas. They do not, not even 10% of residential construction building materials are imported. The National Association of Home Builders will tell you so. And really, the majority of those few imports that do come from elsewhere, they come from, Canada in the form of timber. You might have heard about that before. Now, there are some things like finishes and fixtures that get sourced from, oh, various other countries, but yeah, the biggest potential tariff expense impacting home builders would come from enacting a cost on Canadian lumber. But I and a lot of economists as well, they're pretty skeptical that the administration would really enact a tariff on a close ally like that, on Canada's raw materials. In fact, Chief Economist Lawrence Yoon of the NAR he conceded that even potential lumber tariffs, they might be given a phasing in period, and that would encourage American timber mills to fill in any production gap. It's also important to you know, remember that doors, windows, cabinets that builders utilize, they are typically produced within us, borders. Windows, doors, cabinets made domestically, unless it's something that relies on raw materials that are imported, they ought to be little affected by tariffs. One example is that kitchen sinks now they largely went from being sourced in China, then Malaysia, then Indonesia, and one main customer is now talking about sourcing them out of Mexico or the Dominican Republic. So there are a few things that less than 10% that's imported. Another imported item is flooring, which moved away from China, went to India for a while, went a little bit back to Brazil, and now more is being sourced by Ecuador. But the important thing to remember is that these are outlier components. Not even 10% of residential construction building materials are imported. That's what you want to remember, concrete, us, rebar, us. So you know, as a real estate investor, you can feel good that as your portfolio grows, each one of your properties was chiefly built with us, labor that you already knew, but it is also built predominantly with us, materials as well. How likely are single family rental investors to say that they want to buy more investment property this year. Well, year ago, 60% of them said that. Today it is up to 76% yes, that many say that they are either likely or very likely to buy single family rental property in the next 12 months, and that same group that was surveyed is also unlikely to sell their property, and they also said that they are more likely to raise the single family rent this year. And all this is according to a joint lending one resi club survey. However, most fall in the range of raising the rent between just 1% and 6% this year, so pretty modest rent increases. In fact, in every region of the US, the majority of single family rental investors describe their rental market as either strong or very strong. But can you guess the weakest region? Okay, this region is the one that still has a majority of landlords that say that their market is strong, but yet the weakest of them all is the South West, and that is largely due to over building and in the survey, what expense increased the most the past 12 months? Well, number one is that 37% of respondents these landlords said it is still insurance premiums. Second place was that 23% say property taxes are increasing the most. And then third was. And 21% say that maintenance and repair costs have increased the most for them. So the top three expenses cited expense increases that is in order, are insurance, property tax, and then maintenance and repairs. And a few weeks ago, I discussed with you, you might remember about how upgrading or remodeling a unit that helps you in at least five different ways simultaneously. Let me talk about this, since I touched on raising the rent and a little comprehension test here. Do you remember what those five ways are? the five ways your help by upgrading or remodeling a unit. And no, these are not the famed real estate pays five ways when you upgrade a vacant unit for rent, or at times, you can even actually upgrade a unit while the tenant is still occupying the property, if it's not a disruptive upgrade type. Okay, I mean, sometimes that tenant can be appreciative that they're getting an upgrade while they live there, but the five ways that upgrading a unit helps you are, first, well, obviously it helps you be able to get more rent in cash flow. Secondly, you tend to attract a higher quality tenant. And then in a five plus unit apartment building, it also increases your noi, therefore a greater overall property value. Fourth is pride of ownership. And then fifth is that higher rents help you offset those erstwhile higher operating expenses. 

 

And here's the thing, when you get free help from one of our GRE investment coaches, like you can do at GRE marketplace.com those properties are either already extensively renovated or they are completely brand new build. So because of that fact, this means that from day one, your rent income is already optimized. You already have the best chance of landing a quality tenant, and you get some sense of having a pride of ownership. And all of those things, they're already optimized for you. You don't have to tinker with anything else, because those GRE marketplace properties, more than 95% of them are either renovated or new build. I would say, using properties conducive to the BRRRR method, they would be the few exceptions there and on GRE marketplace, you can find lower cost renovated single family homes, up to million dollar apartment buildings, either new or renovated. And another pro tip here to help you with something actionable in a premium place to source your growing income property portfolio. You've heard me mention them before, is mid south home buyers, but I'll tell you more about what's going on with them. Yeah, they're an especially good place to add your portfolio if you either haven't invested outside of your home market before, or you don't have as much liquidity right now, because their prices are just 100 to 180k they are still in that range. And yes, that 100 to 180k that is indeed the entire capital price for the asset. So that means down payment and closing costs being about 25% therefore it's just 25k to 45k Yes, you can still get started for that little with a wonderfully renovated property in either Memphis or Little Rock. Those are the two markets where mid south home buyers operates, and they are some of the most investor advantage markets in the entire nation. And then the US is one of the most investor advantage markets in the world. And last month, I met and spoke with a 19 year old guy that lives in Dallas, and he just bought his first ever investment property from mid south home buyers in Memphis. And in fact, it was his goal to have his first income producing property at age 18, and he bought it the day before he turned 19, so he barely met that goal. But yeah, they are total pros at mid south they've been doing it for over two decades. They say that they are the nation's highest rated turnkey property provider. They might even be the first provider in the nation, if you like. They also manage the property for you, and their property managers are really aware that their investors, like you, seek a return on investment, so they often have a line a waiting list. To get their properties. Last I checked the line at mid south had shortened globally attractive cash flows an A plus rating with a better business bureau, and they've now renovated over 5000 houses. And over there, they do a lot of things with their management that you just wish every provider would do, there is zero markup on maintenance. Their average occupancy rate is almost 99% average renter stays more than three and a half years. And you know that three and a half years, that duration of tenancy that could be poised to go even higher now, with the affordability crisis for these want to be first time homebuyers now, most of what mid south has are single family rentals, quite a few duplexes too. Every home has brand new components, a full one year warranty, bumper to bumper, new 30 year roofs. And then the really important part expect a high quality renter that they screen and find in place for you. So let me give you an example of two real properties. And now, if these two aren't under contract already, they probably soon will be, since I'm mentioning them. And of course, duplexes cost more than single family rentals. This duplex is in Jacksonville, Arkansas. It's just northeast of Little Rock. It is 913 and 915 Ruth Ann drive, the combined rent from both sides is $1,775 the all in cost is about 210k 2099, in total, it's 1600 square feet. So 800 square feet each side, it's two bed, one bath each side. The Property taxes are really low, $1,300 a year, really nicely renovated with good quality materials. I mean, I love owning properties like this all day. So that's a duplex in the Little Rock market. Another one from mid south is this, Memphis single family rental. The address is 400 Bonita drive. It is $1,200 rent on a $148,100 purchase price. Gosh, those numbers work. This single family rental is three bed one and a half bath, 1164 square feet. Gosh. Again, low property tax in these regions, just $1,120 annually. All right, so that property tax rate is just three quarters of 1% of the purchase price. So really low on a national basis, a big backyard, eat in kitchen, separate laundry room, walking distance to schools. I mean, this is the type of property a tenant family could live in for five or 10 years, beautifully renovated. And I'm bringing these up because these are all at prices that Metro New Yorkers or coastal Californians can barely believe. So each property has hundreds of dollars of projected positive monthly cash flow. Each one increases your income 2000 to $5,000 per year. And I have personally toured mid south home buyers office in Memphis and their properties in person in Memphis. And I've seen their properties in each stage. I walked a tear down that they were doing, and I saw all the debris in the backyard. And I have seen their hardwood floors shine inside newly renovated property that I walked with both Terry and Liz from over there at Mid South. She is a pretty popular and extremely knowledgeable woman there. Liz, you can ask for her or one of her team members about getting on the list over there. Yes, these are 100k to 180k already renovated. Yes, that's truly the all in price, and they are in decent, working class pride of ownership neighborhoods in Memphis, Tennessee and Little Rock, Arkansas. And a lot of people get their start in investing there, I suspect it's now in the hundreds, with the number of GRE listeners that have bought from them. But even veteran investors, with dozens of units, they scoop up properties from them due to the low prices, some even pay gasp, all cash, yes, no leverage for them. And mid south homebuyers has investor tours monthly, where they load everyone on a bus, and you can check out the properties, because they are really proud of what they offer there coming up next, I'm comparing single family rental investments to apartments. But yeah, right there. That was a pro tip that really ought to help you out. Expect cash flow from day one. A 19 year old is doing it. You can start yourself at mid south homebuyers.com. More next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education. 

 

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Hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine, at Ridge lending group NMLS, 420056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com

 

Kathy Fettke  21:55  

you this is the real wealth network's Kathy Fettke, and you are listening to The always valuable get rich education with Keith Weinhold.

 

Keith Weinhold  22:12  

Keith, welcome back for the 535th week in a row you are listening to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and I'm really grateful to have you here if you self manage your properties. One software that can really simplify your life is called Hemlane, H, E, M, as in Mary, l, a, n, e, Hemlane. You might have heard about it before. I now know quite a few people that use it. It's been getting some really good reviews. You can manage your properties from anywhere, even through your phone. And Hemlane has got some really good integrations, and now it's more than just investors like you that are using it. Agents and property managers are using Hemlane too, from advertising to tenant screening to maintenance and repair and accounting, and I just learned that they recently got all of the state specific lease agreements integrated on their platform as well. That's why it was on top of mind. If you prefer to self manage and you want to make it easier, what you can do is book a free demo and they show you how it works. Over there, it's just hemlane.com where you can do that if you like. Let them know that I told you about it. 

 

Before I share something else actionable with you, let's do some learning and talk about apartment buildings and single family rental properties, and compare the two, some pros and cons of each. And perhaps the most obvious advantage of apartment buildings is their economies of scale. A 12 unit apartment only has one roof to maintain and one insurance policy to maintain. Another efficiency is that shared common areas and plumbing and HVAC systems that can lower your individual maintenance costs on a per unit basis as well in those apartments. And right now, at this time in the mid 2020s, decade, another advantage of apartments is that this time in the cycle is where values are just about bottoming out. Apartment buildings in a lot of national regions have fallen 20% fallen, 25% or even fallen 30% or more from their highs that were seen two to three years ago, and that's due to those higher interest rates. And the reason that this is an advantage for apartments is that you might be able to buy low, buy the dip, apartment cap rate. Have settled in the mid five range. Now, well located Class A has dropped back into the fours. Long time investors already know about some of the advantages, but you know, even some long time investors, they often overlook some of the advantages that single family rental properties have over apartments. So let me share some of those with you. Now, as you know, I started off with my first two investment properties, both being four Plex buildings, and then after that, I added larger apartment buildings and single family rental properties, and I still do buy and own single family rentals. So let me tell you about why I love them. They might have the best risk adjusted return anywhere even after 2008 great recession. Those that bought single families for cash flow persevered with single families. You get a better quality of tenant than you do in apartments. They take care of the premises. They tend to be in a better neighborhood. Single families tend to appreciate better over time, and are also more likely to be in a better school district. Single families have a retention advantage. Tenants stay longer, and that creates less vacancy and expense, and the reason that they do stay longer are those aforementioned neighborhood and school district characteristics, common areas. You know, single family rentals, they don't have any common areas that you have to clean and maintain. I think I pointed that out to you before, because that's like an overlooked profit drag that I missed when I bought my first larger apartment building. Yeah, apartments have hallways and stairs and laundry rooms and commonal door grounds that a custodian has got to service. Single families have an advantage when it comes to utility payments, because tenants often pay all of the utilities and they even care for the lawn. The larger the apartment building is, the more likely that you are going to be the one paying the utility costs. Then there's divisibility. What if you've got a property that's underperforming out there and it just isn't meeting your expectations? Well, if you had, say, 10 single family rental homes, you can sell off the one or the two that aren't performing, but yet, with a 10 unit apartment building, you've either got to keep them all or sell them all. It is not divisible. What about fire and pestilence, something a lot of people don't talk about? I mean fire and pests. They are more easily controlled in single family rentals, even if you're adequately insured, these conditions often affect multiple units and families. They can spread in an apartment building. Financing is a huge one income single family homes, they have both lower mortgage interest rates than apartments and typically lower down payment requirements than apartments. I think you already know you can secure 10 single family rental loans, single 20 if you're married at the best rates and terms through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac with just 20% down payments, you can even go less than 20% on non owner occupied in some cases, but apartments rarely, if ever, have 30 year fixed rate terms like single family rentals do, and this right here in particular, that really started bringing down a lot of apartment investors, beginning in 2022 and 2023 when their interest rates reset much higher, doubling, or even more than doubling. How about vacancy rate? It is true that if your single family is vacant, then your vacancy rates 100% if your say four Plex has one vacancy, well then your vacancy rates only 25% but yeah, the same is true if you own four single family rentals and one is vacant. How about management? If you hire professional management, your manager would likely rather deal with higher quality, single family residence. And if you're self managing, this is a demographic of people that you would likely rather handle yourself. Then there's supply and demand, there just absolutely still are not enough low cost, single families that make the best rentals nationally, demand still exceeds supply. That's the opposite condition for apartments, and this is something that's going to continue in the short and the medium term market risk that is an overlooked criterion. You've got to keep your properties filled with rent paying tenants that have jobs. If you think you'll be able to buy 10 rental units in the near future, well, your 10 unit apartment building that's only going to be in one location, and that's going to leave you exposed to just one geography's economic fortunes. But if you have 10 single families, you could have four of them in Central Florida, three of them in Fort Worth Texas, and three of them in Memphis. And you got to think about exit strategy. A lot of people don't think about this. Think about the exit before you even get in, because years down the road, when it's time to sell your income property, hopefully, after you've had years of handsome profits, and real estate pays five ways and all of that, you know what? Down the road, there is going to be a greater buyer pool for your single family rental than your apartment building. In almost every case, more buyers can afford the lower price, and unlike apartments, you even have access to a pool of buyers that might want to occupy the single family rental themselves. It might even be your current tenant that buys it, but the market and the numbers have to make sense for someone to want to buy an apartment building, but if an owner occupant buys it from you, that family doesn't have to have any numbers that make sense. So your single family rental is more liquid on your exit and professional management, that's another reason that single families can make sense. Because see single family rentals, they can be spread all over a metro area diffusely, and if you self manage, that is a lot of little trips that can get to be a hassle. But if you use a pro manager, well, they're the ones that have to manage the scattered sites. And a lot of times, managers don't charge you much more to handle your single families than they do your apartment buildings. So right now, there were a ton of advantages, a good 15 or 20 advantages there that single family rentals have over apartment buildings. And it's important I discuss them, because there are a lot of investors that don't factor all of those in. Even veteran investors tend to overlook some of those things. Again, I really like apartment buildings as well. They could very well be my second favorite investment to single family rentals, and I would like to now, with that understanding, really say something that I probably don't say quite often enough if you want to benefit from all these wealth building forces here that I've talked to on the show for for more than 10 years. You need to own more property, or get started with your first property.

 

Now I've already given you one great resource for that. And yes, what do they say? The turtle never got ahead until he stuck his neck out. Now the uncertainty, I mean uncertainty. That's just that condition that never completely abates. But in a sense, I think you can say today that the future is already here because we've got substantially more economic certainty and political certainty than we have had in recent years. The presidency was decided peacefully. Recession fears have abated. The Fed after screwing up with high inflation a few years ago, they have now engineered a soft landing, meaning lower inflation with still high employment. So now is a good time. What about real estate prices? I'll tell you something about that all of my investor life, every single property that I've ever bought, without exception, it felt aggressively priced at the time, and then, typically, it always happens when as little as one year or two years goes by, it already looked like a good decision. And I'd like to encourage you to do something else in this era, if you can swing it, buy new build property. That's something that wasn't always true. They do cost more. It's probably going to be 300k plus for a new build rental, single family home, but either way, be sure to own more property, existing or new benefit from what we talk about now. In some parts of the nation, including Florida, builders built a few too many properties, and they are willing to give you a discount for that. They might even cut the price a little and give you a rate discount, buying down discount points for you so that you can get a mortgage loan interest rate in the fives or even in the fours on new build income property right now in a volatile insurance market, new builds also have some super low insurance premiums because the property is built to today's more stringent codes. I mean, a. Just put an example out here. If you say, buy 10 rental, single family homes for $3 million total, 10 properties, 300k each. Okay, it's just 5% appreciation, which is what I projected for this year in our home price appreciation forecast. Two weeks ago, on $3 million worth of property, that's 150k per year, every year growing that you can pull out of the properties completely tax free. But to get that 150k per year tax free, you would have only had to make a 750k down payment and closing costs 25% on this that's not even counting the cash flow that the properties generate, plus your loan, of course, is simultaneously being paid down by tenants. And on top of that, inflation would just relentlessly debase your two and a quarter million dollars of fixed rate debt. Yes, all while the appreciation and the cash flow occurs, inflation debases your debt by another $67,500 every single year, and your tenant pays down some more principal on top of that. And then there are the other tax benefits too. And this is where you are massively getting ahead. All right, that was a $3 million portfolio, but if you can only do 1/10 of that own, just say one more new build, 300k single family rental, then you get 1/10 of those benefits that I mentioned, and either way, a total return on investment of 30% or more annually that is achievable. It's actually even conservative. I mean, just with the 5% appreciation, with four to one leverage, that's a 20% return just on the appreciation component alone. 

 

And our GRE investment coaches can make this real for you. They can talk to you about these properties and others, including those mortgage rate buy downs into the fives and the fours properties in investor advantage markets in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas and some others. In fact, let me give you two examples of what our investment coaches can help you with right now. This is pretty fun, actually, as I talk about these properties, because you might even end up owning the ones that I discuss right here on the show. The first of two is a brand new build, single family in Palma Coast, Florida. Gosh, it's a ranch home. Really good looking. Two car garage, is what I'm looking at here. It's 1200 square feet, three, bed, two, bath. It's called the Bing model, and it's got the type of layout that tenants really want today. I mean, your resident could stay there for a long time. $2,100, in rent for a purchase price of $289,900 I mean those numbers, along with the mortgage rate buy down to four and a half percent, plus new build insurance premiums that are going to be low. That really works today. That is really attractive there in Palm Coast, Florida. And the last one I'll mention is an older single family rental in Canton, Ohio. Yes, that's the home of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The address is 2422 6th Street, Northwest in Canton. Rent of 1225, and a purchase price of just $135,000 The size is 1036 square feet, and it is four beds, one and a half baths. The renovations really look quite good. As you recall, those benefits of buying property that's already renovated, like I discussed earlier, all for 135k in today's market. So these properties and so many more like them, that's what our investment coaches can help you with. Their service is always completely free, but first what they do is they learn a little about you, and they can then put together an entire investment real estate portfolio for you, if you like. So they'll assess and evaluate what you've got, where you want to go, what property types are conducive to aligning with your strategy, and are there any best geographies for you? And more. So it's really important to stay in touch with your coach. I mean, we might find out, for example, tomorrow, that a home builder that we work with decided to offer some massive mortgage rate buy down incentives for you because, say, they built too much. So I really encourage you to set up that touch point for the first time, or to stay in touch and see what's happening, free coaching off market opportunities, and it's easy to set up a short meeting over the phone or on zoom with an investment coach. You can do that at GRE marketplace. It really can be quite a life changing venture for you from GRE marketplace.com just click on the coaching area until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 2  40:49  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  41:09  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.

 

Discover how inflation is destroying the value of your money and eroding the ethical foundations of society. Legendary author Doug Casey reveals the insidious ways rising prices lead to social decay, unethical behavior, and the breakdown of trust. 

Learn how to protect your prosperity by shifting away from the falling dollar and into real assets like gold, real estate, and carefully selected investments. 

Don't let inflation rob you - get the insights you need to thrive in this challenging economic environment.

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Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, inflation does not mean rising prices. Inflation is an expansion of the money supply which results in rising prices, and it leads to wider societal decay and moral breakdowns in ways that you've never thought about before. It misdirects inflation frustration toward people like housing providers and grocers, we explore it today on get rich education.

 

Mid south home buyers, I mean, they're total pros, with over two decades is the nation's highest rated turnkey provider. Their empathetic property managers use your ROI as their North Star. So it's no wonder that smart investors just keep lining up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone. They're headquartered in Memphis and have globally attractive cash flows and A plus rating with a better business bureau and now over 5000 houses renovated. There's zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate, while their average renter stays more than three and a half years. Every home they offer has brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter. Remember that part and in an astounding price range, 100 to 180k. I've personally toured their office and their properties in person in Memphis, get to know Mid South. Enjoy cash flow from day one. Start yourself right now at mid south homebuyers.com that's mid south homebuyers.com

 

you know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info. Oh, geez. Today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got paywalls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text GRE to 66866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text GRE to 66 866.

 

Speaker 1  3:12  

you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  3:28  

We are the GRE from Albany, New York to New Albany, Ohio, and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. You have probably heard it been said by now that money must have three attributes. It is a store of value, a medium of exchange and a unit of account. The US Dollar does not meet the first one store of value. That's due to inflation. How is the dollar a store of value, it is not so then the dollar is a mere currency, not money. You can make the case that gold is a store of value, maybe that Bitcoin is, although it's got a short track record and it's a volatile ride the S, p5, 100, you could say that's nothing more than a store of value long term. When you understand all the drags on it, you're only treading water long term with the s, p, I've discussed that on shows earlier this year. That leaves real estate as not just a good long term, stable store a value, but when it's done right, it is the vehicle where inflation actually increases your purchasing power. And here's a new way to think about it, money is your time and energy captured in an abstracted form for the government to take out debt. They are borrowing your time and energy. Government debt is the closest thing we've ever seen to time travel.They're borrowing the collective time and energy from your future. How do you achieve time travel? You borrow human time and energy from the future currency debasement steals the time and energy of you and everyone alive today. That's why you've got to protect yourself. And what this does is that it actually increases your time preference. Yeah, the term time preference, that's something that Bitcoin authors like Dr saifedean Amos often use time preference and actually think that it's sort of a confusing term. Time preference, though, it sounds like a good thing, it's actually a bad thing. It means that you would rather consume now and over consume now instead of later. Having a high time preference means that you want to all out, ball out right now, and not consider your future. Well, that's what inflation does whenever you see the term time preference out there. I think the best way for you to remember what that means is think of it instead as a now preference. I think now preference is more intuitive than time preference. Teach me how to Dougie, yes, we've got public figure and mega popular author Doug Casey back with us today to discuss how rising prices lead to social decay and makes humans have a higher time preference resultantly, I guess that is teaching us how to Dougie. Yes, indeed, that is a reference to that, like 15 year old song, teach me how to Dougie, and we would drop some bars of that song right now. Oh, you know that me and the team here, we really want to, but we would probably have some royalty issues with that one here, and I'll tell you that is such a stupid song. Teach me how to Dougie, but at the same time, once you've heard it, the next thing that you want to do is hear it again somehow. But it's pretty likely that Doug Casey and I have some more important things to talk about. So fortunately for you, rather than discuss a 2010, rap song any further, we're going to discuss how rising prices lead to social decay.

 

Monetary inflation is even worse than you think. This era's rising prices and falling values actually lead to social decay. Villains and unethical actors are getting rewarded and they're stealing from you. We're going to discuss just how the international man himself, a legendary and generationally popular author, is back with us for a sobering look at inflation and social decay today. Hey, welcome back in. Doug Casey. 

 

Doug Casey  8:04  

Nice to talk to you, Keith. I'm speaking to you at the moment from my farm in Uruguay, which is one of the, I would say, two, most stable countries in Latin America, and one of the two or three most stable countries in the Western Hemisphere, there's a lot of real estate in the world, other than in the US. And I know that you mostly talk about real estate. I've actually done a lot of real estate too, all around the world, in the Orient and in Europe and South America, and, of course, a lot in the US and Canada. So I'm generally friendly to real estate, and it's been very, very good to me.

 

Keith Weinhold  8:44  

Well, you're truly living up to the International Man moniker again today, joining us from that small South American nation of Uruguay and Doug. Before we talk about the inflation and the social decay, what are property taxes like there in that part of Uruguay. And I know you often spend time in Buenos Aires Argentina as well. If you can talk to us in terms of the percent of the value of the property that you pay in property tax each year, which tends to be one to one and a quarter percent on an average in the United States.

 

Doug Casey  9:13  

that's right. And I think in some states like Illinois, it can go up to about 2% if I'm not mistaken, which means that you really don't own your property. If you don't pay your real estate taxes for for a year or two, you'll find out who really owns it, right? But taxes are high in South America, but generally, not too bad on real estate per se, certainly not on farmland, but farmland everywhere in the world doesn't pay much in the way of real estate taxes, and that's certainly the case here in Uruguay, and the same in Argentina, which might be worth more discussion, because Argentina is doing something that's actually unique in world history right now. And I.hope it's a story that ends well, because they're going in the right direction. But to answer your question, if you buy a condo or a house in a city in Uruguay or Argentina or most of these countries down here, you're going to pay real estate taxes, but it's less than in the US typically, like a half a percent, when they get you in South America is value added taxes, or anything you buy, including labor. In most places, you have to pay the government someplace in between 18 or 20 or 22% depending it's like a huge extra sales tax that's hidden in the cost of the item. And of course, they have income taxes down here, just as what they do in the US, approximately American levels. But on the bright side, not that I know about these things from a firsthand point of view, but these Latin American countries are kind of corrupt and not as completely grasping as the US is they're not as competent in going after you, and don't have a worldwide reach, which the US does. 

 

Keith Weinhold  11:07  

Yeah. Oh, well, that's an interesting comparison there. And yeah, Doug, a lot of Latin American nations have had high rates of inflation in both the recent past and now in a piece that you recently wrote is titled, inflation and social decay, rising prices and falling values. And here in the United States, whether it's at the grocery store or the mall or restaurants or airports or anywhere you turn, people really are finding inferior goods and services yet at higher prices. I mean, everyone sees that now. And Doug, I know that you've maintained that living standards have taken a big step, not forward, but backward, and are trending even worse. So tell us about it. 

 

Doug Casey  11:49  

Well, the way that you become wealthy is by producing more than you consume and saving the difference. That's the basic formula. Produce more than you consume and save the difference. But when the government inflates the currency, and the government's entirely at fault with it, they have the printing presses. They control the currency. It makes it very, very hard to save, and you can't get ahead. You can't build capital which you need in order to invest and become a capitalist. So inflation is the enemy of the average man, and it's the enemy of society as a whole, but some people do very well because of inflation. Why? Because in the US, it's the people in basically New York and Washington and other big cities that stand very close to the fire hydrant of money that comes out of the government, and they get to drink deeply before something trickles down to the plebs below inflation will destroy a country, and that's why in Latin America in particular, you've got very rich people who are usually connected to the government, who get that money first, and a lot of poor peasants who don't get it, and I'm afraid that the US has been going in that direction for some years. 

 

Keith Weinhold  13:08  

Well, I'm so glad Doug that you gave us the reminder that the government is the source of inflation. That's where it all begins, because people often blame the landlord for higher rents, but they blame the grocer for the higher beef prices, but the landlord in the grocer, they're only the messenger, not the source. You're absolutely right. It's a question of very bad economic education throughout the school system, all the way up to college and post grad work the butcher and the baker and the oil maker produce real goods that make your standard of living higher. They're the heroes in this scenario. The government, which prints up money through its deficits that it runs, is the villain in this and I never cease to be amazed and shocked how people look at politicians to be their saviors, right? They're heroes. They're not. They're the villains in this piece. They serve no useful purpose. And the same goes for most of these agencies that they set up, which once again, make things easier for the guys on top, that have capital, that have political connections, that can hire the lawyers, hire the accountants to twist things in their favor, makes it very hard for the little guy who can't jump over the hurdles that are put up by regulation as well as taxes as well as inflation. 

 

Tell us about how inflation erodes ethical standards. 

 

Doug Casey  14:38  

Well, that's a problem too, because if you can't trust money, the validity of contracts becomes questionable if you borrow. It's terrible in a country like Argentina, if you borrowed 100 pesos from me and only gave it back to me next year, it'd be worth half as much. But you say, Hey, here's your 100 pesos, but you're subtly cheating the person that you borrowed the money from, right? And it erodes trust. Not only that, but inflation tends to make the banking system unsound for a number of reasons. If you can't trust your bank, you really can't trust any financial institutions. So money is the lifeblood of a society. It represents everything that you want to do and want to provide for other people in the future. And if the government destroys your money, it's destroying your future life. And that erodes trust. It makes people think in terms of, I want it all, and I want it now. I'm not willing to wait, because in the future, I don't know what anything is going to be worth. So it leads to an unstable society. And in an unstable society, you don't trust anything. 

 

Keith Weinhold  15:57  

right? Well, first, I love your example of the 100 peso loan. I mean, how would one know how much interest to charge in a runaway inflationary environment? Because some people don't realize that high inflation also means more volatile levels of inflation, and banking and lending really break down. You know, Doug, I've got my own example or two about how inflation introduces unethical behavior when the big wave of inflation started to hit in 2021 and 2022 in the United States, you know my favorite cold brew bottled coffee, which I drank because it had good ingredients in it, rather than raising the price on that with inflation, they replaced their higher quality sweeteners in my cold brew coffee, like stevia and monk fruit extract with a junky sucralose sweetener, they could keep their price the same that way. They sure didn't point out that they substituted a junkier sweetener. And really this is another form of inflation called skimplation That was pretty sneaky behavior here.

 

Doug Casey  17:00  

you're absolutely correct, Keith, and this further breaks down the bonds of trust in society, because you no longer really trust that manufacturer, and that's just your one particular coffee manufacturer, but it's happening across the board with all manufacturers, so no wonder people start saying, Hey, I hate these companies. They're trying to rip me off. Well, they're not trying to rip you off. They're just trying to survive the consequences of the government debasing the currency. So we have to assign blame where it belongs. That's a very good example that you just gave. I think.

 

Keith Weinhold  17:35  

yeah. And I think another way that inflation introduces unethical behavior is say that there are two different manufacturers of wine, and they're selling their bottle of wine for $20 then the currency supply doubles. Okay, well, one manufacturer can go ahead and keep selling their $20 wine with inferior ingredients. Well over here, the honest guy, the other company, they double their price to $40 and they continue to use good quality ingredients. But what do consumers notice? They notice the price more than the ingredients. So therefore the unethical one that waters down their wine ingredients but keeps their price low actually gets rewarded and will get more business. 

 

Doug Casey  18:15  

You're right, certainly in the short run, but in the long run, inflation is going to destroy both of them, but for different reasons, inflation really destroys the basis of society itself, because it makes it so much harder to produce and you don't have any savings to consume. So money is the basis of society. When you destroy the money you're destroying the basis of society itself. 

 

Keith Weinhold  18:43  

We're talking with Doug Casey about his recent piece that you can [email protected] it'stitled inflation and social decay, rising prices and falling values. He also hosts the eponymous show, Doug Casey's take more with Doug when we come back, including how inflation leads to a more litigious society and actually creates more lawsuits. That's straight ahead. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold.

 

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Hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine, at Ridge lending group  NMLS, 42056. They provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties, they help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com That's ridgelendinggroup.com

 

Richard Duncan  20:53  

this is Richard Duncan, publisher and macro watch, listen to get rich Education with Geek Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  21:11  

Welcome back to get rich education. We're talking with legendary author Doug Casey. In fact, his classic book strategic investing broke the record for receiving the largest advance ever paid for a financial book at the time. And Doug, I know, in one of your latest pieces, you talked about how inflation actually leads to a more litigious society as well. Tell us about that.

 

Doug Casey  21:34  

The US is actually the most litigious country in the world, and it's because a company may have a hard time meeting its obligations when the currency that its obligations are denominated in turns into a floating abstraction, and if you can't fulfill your obligation, is the way you would righteously on a handshake. Might you may want to call in your lawyers to help you survive. So it percolates through all areas of society. 

 

Keith Weinhold  22:06  

Now, on top of inflation, I think there's a problem that's really in one's face today, America has a tip inflation problem where increasingly you are being asked for tips at places where you weren't beforehand. And I think a lot of that really began with COVID. Places like Subway restaurant began asking for tips even though you're standing up to order your food, and it was a way for you to show appreciation that they showed up during the pandemic. But when the pandemic waned, the tip request didn't go away. In fact, I think they've increased. So we have tip inflation on top of inflation. Doug, I recently attended a conference, and the little convenience stores inside the event site hotel, they stated that they are now cashless. Okay, so you're going to be paying with a card, and when you bring your groceries up to the counter, there's a little screen, and they ask you two to three questions. You have to answer two to three prompts if you don't want to leave a tip. This is just at a convenience store. This holds up the line. It's a little frustrating. It wears me out. They say humans can only make 35,000 decisions a day. I just spent three or four of them saying I don't want to leave a tip for this sandwich that I just brought to the counter. And you know what's funny, Doug, I almost consider if this gets annoying after I deny the ridiculous tip request when they didn't provide any additional service. You know what I think about asking Doug, asking that person, oh, okay, well, you asked me to pay more than we agreed to. Where's my discount? Now let me ask you a few questions about my discount now that you ask that I pay more than what we agreed to. So tenations become a problem. 

 

Doug Casey  23:47  

Actually, it's worse than that, because now that the world is going to computer money less cash, they give you some choices. I know at Starbucks, this is the case. You want to leave a 10% or a 15% or a 20% tip, those are the things that you can check to make it easy for yourself. But wait a minute, I just wanted a coffee, and what services this person provided for me, other than just drawing a coffee for me and I'm given a choice of it used to be that tips were this is a long time ago, but it's still the way it is in many countries in the world, the tips were just the excess change that you left there. Or the waiter in many countries in the world, like, well, two I can think of off the top of my hand, or Japan, where tipping is is not accepted. In fact, I remember in one Tokyo restaurant, I left some money on the table, and the waitress ran down the street after me to give me my money back. She thought that I inadvertently left it on the table and it was supposed to be a tip. Other countries, like New Zealand, there's no tipping. Certainly out in the country, it's only in the big cities. So yeah, it's become a rather pernicious habit, but I understand, because the average guy doing manual hourly labor like waiting is having a really hard time making it these days, and that's evidenced by the fact that both Trump and Kamala Harris were talking about making tips exempt from income taxes, because you might have to pay the government, well, forget about it. You have to pay them 15% in Social Security taxes, which are non deductible, and then you have to pay income taxes on top of the Social Security taxes. So I I understand why you'd want to do that, but inflation is just another kind of tax, actually, when we get right down to it, that's what it is. It's a subtle tax. It's a tax that you don't see. It's a tax that you blame on the person providing the service of the good, rather than the government, which if they tax you directly. Yeah, you see that, but you don't see that. Inflation is just another form of tax. 

 

Keith Weinhold  25:59  

Sure, an income tax or a property tax is sort of front stage inflation really a backstage tax being surreptitious. To your point, well, if the government is so bad and does such a poor job of issuing currency, Doug, what are your thoughts about the government just getting out of the currency issuance business? Whatever that would look like, a gold standard, a Bitcoin standard. Does the government have to be the one that issues the currency? 

 

Doug Casey  26:27  

No, it doesn't actually look and we might want to forget about this concept of currency. You've heard that the BRICS, a bunch of third world countries, Russia, India, China, Brazil, many others who want to get out of using the dollar, they don't want to use the dollar because the dollar is turned into a floating abstraction, and they can't trust the US government, as the Russians found, because all dollars clear through New York. So what are they going to do? They don't trust each other's phony baloney currencies. I think that those countries are going to go to gold, not a gold currency, gold, which was money since day one of human history. Actually, I think that's going to happen in the US. And for many, many years, I've suggested that people do their saving in gold, not in dollars. I've been saving in gold for the last 50 years, starting when gold was in the low 40s. And as you do with savings, you put it aside, you forget about it. And the gold that I first saved at $40 an ounce, it's now at 2700 more or less, has treated me very well. I think that people should be saving with something that's not going to lose value the way the dollar does. If the dollar is in a lot of trouble, it could dry up and blow away, quite frankly. So one reason why you want to own real things, commodities, properties, gold, things of that nature, or stocks, if you choose the company well. 

 

Keith Weinhold  27:59  

I've helped people that have been hesitant about putting a little bit of money into gold or Bitcoin with the mindset of, don't think about how you are buying gold or Bitcoin. Think of it rather as how you are shifting a portion of your prosperity from dollars, pesos, yen or euros over into gold or Bitcoin. Really, you're just shifting some of your prosperity there. Is the way that I like to think about it. But Doug, as we've been talking about inflation, in this theme of government really having intervention and distortions into free markets, including things like inflation. You know, I've got something that I'm thinking about, and you might help shape or change my thinking about this. We generally champion free markets around here that's typically a good economic system. However, is a free market with some guardrails on it actually helpful? Or do you think that the guardrails shouldn't be there? You mentioned Donald Trump a little bit earlier? One thing, for example, that he says he wants to do Doug is fire the current FTC chair, Lina Khan now the Federal Trade Commission. What their role has really been in the past few years is they spend a lot of their energy cracking down on fraudsters, but Lina Khan wants to bust up mega corporations. So really, what I'm getting at is, can one of the guardrails that's important be that say the FTC make sure there isn't like a an early 1900 style, John D Rockefeller monopoly. What are your thoughts with the government's role in breaking up monopolies? Is that a valid guardrail on the free market? 

 

Doug Casey  29:30  

No, I don't think it is. Look, you've got two kinds of monopolies. You've got market monopolies and legal monopolies. A market monopoly is one where the company provides the good or service so cheaply at such a high quality that nobody can compete with them. It's not worth it. Well, leave it alone. And if they start pricing their product too high, or the quality falls enough in a free market, Competitors will come in. That's one type of monopoly. nothing wrong with that kind of monopoly. The other kind of monopoly is a legal monopoly where the government says you have a franchise to do this, you and only you can do it like, well, like almost anything today, where you have to, you have to get government approval in order to provide the good or service. Like railroads, for instance, you couldn't start a new railroad today if you wanted to. So if it's a legal monopoly, you're fighting the law. If it's a market monopoly, you just have to provide a service or good, cheaper or better. So no, I don't think the FTC or any of these three Leader Letter agencies serve a useful purpose. All they do is add to costs and slow down competition and employ people that stick their nose into your business and tell you what you can or can't do both as a producer and a consumer. Look, the government is force. It's coercion. It should only do three things in a civilized society, we want to limit coercion. That means protect you from coercion outside the country with the military inside the country, with the police force, and allow you to adjudicate disputes peacefully without resorting to coercion through a court system. Everything else can be solved through market processes. Believe it or not, I know that shocks most people to hear they're so used to thinking that big brother is watching over a man is going to save my bank and protect me from bad people out there. I wish there are plenty, but it's not the best way to do it. Frankly.

 

Keith Weinhold  31:33  

you've done a good job of drawing a distinct line as to what you think government should stay out of but what about this monopoly power? What if, even with AI inroads, Google still owns more than 90% of the search markets, so therefore they can charge exorbitant prices. Shouldn't something like Google be broken up in an antitrust lawsuit? 

 

Doug Casey  31:51  

No, no, it shouldn't, because there are other companies out there that provide people are just used to using Google. I use it myself, but there are at least a half a dozen, and I'm not a computer jock, so I think there are more than that, other services out there that you can use instead of Google, and believe me, I don't like these big companies. I mean, they act like semi governments onto themselves. No, you don't want the government to step in, because the government is a far greater danger than Google is. Google can't break down your door at three in the morning with cops and haul you off to jail. Google can just charge you more than you'd want and do other things like that. But you have other alternatives to Google. It's not an active over weeding physical danger the way the government does. And I'm not saying I like Google either. I don't. Let's admit it, they provide us a tremendous service at basically zero cost, and if you can find ways to get around them, I think that's great. Like I said, it's wonderful what they do. But that doesn't mean I'm a fan of them because of the way that, like any big organization, sure, they try to take advantage around the edges. Unfortunately, that's a negative part of human nature. But the government is not the solution to the problem. 

 

Keith Weinhold  33:13  

And of course, this doesn't mean I'm a pro regulation person. Some states and jurisdictions landlord and tenant act can be overbearing.For example, the FDA is not doing a good job with what is allowed to be put into our food, either. So the size of the regulation probably is too big. 

 

Doug Casey  33:31  

My old friend Dirk Pearson, who wrote a book called Life Extension, a practical scientific approach, was a huge bestseller some years ago, and Derek always liked to say the FDA it kills more people every year than the Defense Department does decade. And he's right. 

 

Keith Weinhold  33:51  

Yeah, that is a pretty sad indictment on the state of things there. But do you have given us quite a few things to think about with how inflation is actually an unethical source, and some more thoughts about free markets. If our audience wants to connect with you, what's the best way for them to do that? 

 

Doug Casey  34:07  

Well, go to internationalman.com I write an article there every week, but every day we have great articles by great people. So go to internationalman.com that's one thing on YouTube. Doug Casey's take, where I have a conversation on these and many, many other subjects with Matt Smith every week. And the last thing is, since you can say some things in the form of fiction that you dare not, or better not say in the form of non fiction, right, I have three novels, speculator, drug lord and assassin that I think are excellent reads, so go on Amazon and pick them up too. 

 

Keith Weinhold  34:47  

Yeah, Casey, it's been insightful as usual. Thanks for coming back onto the show today. 

 

Doug Casey  34:52  

Appreciate it, Keith, it's been a pleasure.

 

Keith Weinhold  35:00  

Yeah, good insight from Doug. As always, tipflation has become awfully intrusive. I recently made a donation on my nephew's behalf for his soccer team or something like that on the donation platform, okay, they called that donation my pledge. Okay, sure, but before I finaled out my pledge on the site, they next asked me if I would like to leave a tip on top of my pledge. Sheesh. Well, do you blame the donation platform for trying to up charge me after I'm just trying to be giving or instead, after listening to today's episode, do you blame the government for inflation in spending? Is this all just a result of that? And now we have listeners that when they find this show, they want to go back and listen to all currently, 500 plus episodes. Well, if you're listening to this five or 10 years from now, you might find my tipflation stories unusual because the practice could be so common and embedded into society by then. Right now, it's still pretty novel here in the mid 2020s there's a rapid rate of change on the tip flation front. And the next time that you are asked for an out of bounds tip, are you next going to ask the merchant where your discount is and make them answer three questions about it.

 

And by the way, the cold brew coffee that I mentioned with Doug is not the erstwhile la Columbia brand that I talked about two weeks ago. My favorite and real go tos are the Slate and O, W, Y, N brands. That way you get 20 grams of protein with your coffee and no cheap sweeteners in those two. Now, when it comes to the anti trust stuff, breaking up monopolies and duopolies, see real estate is super fractured with who owns it. I mean, even with more institutional buying of real estate, like we've seen this past decade on a national basis, these huge groups that own 1000 homes or more. All those groups, they only own about 710, of 1%of the US single family housing stock. So real estate investing is free market and it is fractured. It is not at all consolidated. 

 

And now let me give you something outside of real estate, an example from another segment of business, supermarkets. There is no need for you to frantically hoard Annie's mac and cheese. It's not good for you anyway. But two courts rejected the Kroger Albertsons merger earlier this month, and that effectively broke up the deal that would have brought together two of the largest grocery store chains in America, the decision that really gave a sweet victory to FTC chair Lena Khan, like I mentioned there in the interview, but her time at the agency's Helm, that's going to end in a few weeks with the beginning of a new presidential administration. But see, in my opinion, and going after antitrust cases, she was pro free market and pro competition, which I see as a good thing. That way you have more companies vying for your business with better quality and lower prices. But I do like to listen to the other side, because, like I said in the interview, I'm still forming an opinion on this. That's why I wanted Doug Casey's take. And in this case, the two grocery companies, they had argued that creating a larger entity merging them both that would allow it to compete with Walmart and offer higher wages and lower prices. That is their side of it. Now Andrew Ferguson, he is the apparent new FTC chair. He has promised to reverse what he called Khan's anti business agenda, so we're not going to see as much antitrust crackdown from the looks of things. And note that there is also an antitrust division at the DOJ, so their influence weighs in as well. This really hasn't been much of a problem for real estate, one of the most highly fractured major markets around and now you do have though adjacent industry, like the home builder space, where there is a home building giant like Lennar, but even the home builder space isn't nearly as consolidated and anti competitive as say, the online search industry or the airline industry. I would like to wish you a happy new year. As always, we are back next week with more great content coming up on the show. We go in depth on some real estate asset classes and also how you can really, accionably and seriously reduce your tax burden next year with vehicles like bonus depreciation and cost segregation, simplifying those things for you, these are exactly the types of tools about how the rich get ahead by knowing how the tax laws benefit them, and pretty soon you will too.

 

If you like what you hear here each week, please go ahead and tell a friend about the show. I would really appreciate it. Until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 2  40:15  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  40:43  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get rich, education.com

Keith unveils our 2025 National Home Price Appreciation Forecast. Learn the factors driving the housing market and discover why Keith's predictions have been spot-on for the past 3 years. Gain the insights you need to make strategic real estate moves in the year ahead. Don't miss this must-listen episode packed with actionable real estate insights.

The Fannie Mae home purchase sentiment index rose, indicating growing consumer confidence.

Trump's immigration and tariffs policies and their potential impact on housing demand and labor market disruption.

Hear about the impact of the under supply of housing in the US and the potential impact on home prices.

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Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:00  

Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, today is the day that I'm giving you our 2025 national home price appreciation forecast. You'll get the exact percent that I expect home prices to rise for Fall next year. Learn the factors that really move prices. Importantly, I follow up and you get the results of previous years forecasts too. Will it be a holly jolly forecast or more Grinch like today on Get Rich Education.  

 

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you know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info. Oh, geez. Today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got paywalls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now just text GRE to 66866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text GRE to 66866.

 

Corey Coates  3:12  

you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  3:28  

Welcome to GRE from North port, Florida to North Pole, Alaska and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are listening to get rich education episode 533 Yes, your favorite slack jawed real estate podcaster here is indeed the GRE founder. I'm also an active Forbes real estate council member, best selling author. I write our weekly Don't quit your Daydream newsletter. And perhaps most importantly, I am an active real estate investor, I am here to help you invest well in real estate, and that is because most Americans have enough saved for an absolutely incredible single day of retirement. Look the content that you choose to listen to will shape your behavior, it'll even gradually alter your identity over time and forge your dreams. Middle class financial advice will keep you squarely in the middle class. They get robbed of the fruits of their labor through taxes. Get robbed of their purchasing power through inflation, and they get robbed of their financial future by staying financially illiterate. I mean, if you're grinding hard and sacrificing experiences to be debt free at 36 well then that means you aren't using other people's money. You, it confirms that you've got no leverage. Why celebrate that? Celebrate financial freedom or a great vacation, or, you know, anything else, like with your friends and family to the Canary Islands. I mean, that's stuff that's worth celebrating, that's extraordinary in this one and only life that you got. I love the old African proverb, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. You and I are on this journey together. Dream of living the life where you just give a light touch to some of your investments while they are building your wealth, just adjust the sales of your ship a little here and there. Now. We'll get into the big picture real estate forces in my exact percent home price appreciation figure shortly. But doesn't that sound amazing where you can just do this? I mean, that's what I do. I just give a light touch to my investments. For example, at the beginning of this month, I looked at the statements as they came in in emails from my property managers in various real estate markets, like I usually do now when you have a perfect month as a real estate investor, US landlords, or should I say, housing providers, acknowledging last week's show we develop our own vernacular. A perfect month is when you have 100% rental occupancy and no repair items. Once though you have more than about five rental units, it's hard to ever have a perfect month. It's always good to budget something toward long term vacancy and maintenance. But I had a pretty good month last month. For some reason, my properties needed a few new appliances, a replaced fridge. Here, a new microwave. There, a lot of appliances like a fridge, you know, they can still look pretty close to new, even if they're used. That's fine for a rental. This was just a $280 fridge replacement, for example, in this one rental, single family home of mine. So yeah, just that monthly scan of your property manager statement, seeing that income and expenses look kind of reasonable to you, and then going about your day and the rest of your month. Now, it wasn't always that way for me. As I started and grew, I self managed my own properties for the first six or seven years, and sometimes, you know, something will happen where I want to get more proactive and maybe take, say, a 90 minute block of time to shop for lower insurance premiums if I see those rates rising in a certain market or something like that, but that's how it feels to give a light touch to your active direct real estate investments. Keep that going, because this is all happening while you keep other people's money working for you, the banks, the governments and the tenants. 

 

Hey, something that's become newsworthy, an index measuring consumer confidence in the housing market, rose again last month, and that is the latest sign that potential property buyers and sellers are growing more accustomed to today's mortgage rates and prices. The Fannie Mae home purchase sentiment index that has now increased to 75 points. So the index has risen 11 points or more than 16% in the last year. So there is, however, not one shred of evidence, for example, that sub 3% mortgage rates are coming back anytime soon, maybe not even in this decade or in your entire lifetime. Who really knows? I mean, it's soon going to be three years since the Fed began their aggressive rate hiking cycle and the market and consumer expectations are finally adjusting and settling down, and that right there that factors in just the touch to the housing forecast that I'm going to deliver to you today. And before I get into that, since we are get rich education, do you know what the federal funds rate is like, what it really means? Let me explain this to you in a way where I think you'll not only learn, but I'm going to give you an example so that you can actually remember it. And I'm going to over simplify it, the federal funds rate, that thing that Jerome Powell and his committee set, that is the rate that banks pay other banks to borrow from each other. It's a little over 4% right now. Okay, let's just say it's 4% here's why the federal funds rate is typically lower than mortgage rates. Say that Wells Fargo pays bank of America this 4% federal funds rate to borrow so that Wells Fargo can then turn around and lend the funds to you for a real estate mortgage loan. All right. Well now you can see that Wells Fargo had to pay Bank of America 4% that's why, when you go get your real estate loan from Wells Fargo, you can understand and see why they'd have to charge you, say, 7% in order to make a spread. That is why mortgage rates are higher than the federal funds rate. Wells Fargo made the spread of 3% because they borrowed at four, and they lent it to you at seven, and you yourself you borrowed at seven because your tenant pays your interest and principal for you, and you get the leverage and all of the other benefits. So again, the federal funds rate is the rate that banks pay when they borrow from other banks, and since they need to make a spread arbitrage, this is why mortgage rates are higher. Again, that's oversimplified, but I think that's a way where you can really remember what that is and why that is that way. All right. 

 

Well, with that lesson understood, let's talk about the big national home price forecast for next year. And here's what's interesting. Look at the forecasts that my peers have made. All right, I've already got the forecasts from 16 other housing analytics platforms here, and they have all predicted that home prices will rise next year, all 16 of them, but they've all forecast something different. And everything we're discussing today, by the way, is nominal, meaning, not inflation adjusted. All right. Note that the average of all these platforms, all 16 of them, is a 2.8% gain for next year. All right, if you look at all of them the range, the highest is Goldman, Sachs at 4.4% and the lowest is Moody's Analytics at just 310 of 1%

 

I'll tell you now that my forecast today, it wouldn't even fit on this chart, it is going to be off the chart. And this is something that might ramp up your intrigue. Maybe you think I would look at this and choose something safe, and since I have the benefit of seeing how 16 others have weighed in that, I'll just pick something in the middle of that. Oh, no, not at all. This is an independent forecast. So since our forecast is off the chart, then that means that what I'm going to tell you today either has to be higher than the highest, which is that 4.4% from Goldman Sachs, or lower than the lowest, which is that 310 of 1% from Moody's. Yes, it is outside of those brackets, busting the bookends today. And as I lead up to it, I will detail the reasons why the calculus that went into this forecast. So before we're done, yes, you will get the exact percent number that I expect existing single family home values to increase by or decrease by next year. It is the fourth straight year that I'm doing this. And now a lot of people make whimsical predictions, you know. But today, you're gonna get something that you rarely, if ever get accountability, because I'm also going to show you the results, you'll see how well my forecasts have actually performed each of the past three years. Sheesh, don't you wish everyone followed up on the prediction that they made now, oh gosh, most housing price crash Predictions Fail Faster than your average New Year's resolution. All right, we need first historic context in order to put this future that we're talking about into perspective. Let's look at how bad other predictions have been this is something that Yahoo Finance recently pointed out, the year by year, reasons that people thought housing prices would crash Since 2012 so we're talking about the past 13 years here, starting in 2012 it was shadow inventory. Remember that that never came true. 2013 higher mortgage rates. 2014 in that year. People thought that housing prices could tumble hard because QE was ending in October of that year. That is quantitative easing, which is dollar printing. I mean, basically QE, that's just the Genteel way of saying inflation. In 2015 they thought a manufacturing recession would make home prices crash. In 2016 home prices were back to their pre global financial crisis high. Well, people thought that seemed shaky. In 2017 I don't know what it was. No one had a good reason. But the word crash just gets attention, so some media tried to scare people with that headline. Anyway, in 2018 it was mortgage rates went from 4% up to 5% seriously like that was the top reason. In 2019 it was that home price growth was cooling off in 2020 of course, it was the COVID 19 pandemic in 2021 it was mortgage forbearance in 2022 it was that mortgage rates hit 7% that was the first time we saw those in a while, even though 7% is still below the long term average of seven and three quarters percent in 2023 it was historically low housing demand. People thought that would bring down real estate prices. In 2024 it was sustained higher mortgage rates and an uptick in inventory. And what's it going to be in 2025 I don't know. Clickbait artists will have some other farcical reason why home prices will crash. Just watch, all right, well, with that, look back every year since 2012 of course, real estate prices definitely don't always go up. In fact, when we look at a longer term history, the national home price appreciation rate every year since World War Two. Like I told you on a previous episode, there were only two periods where home prices fell, that's over a period of 80 to 85 years. There was just 1% attrition in 1990 and then the only appreciable loss period, of course, were those years around the 2008 global financial crisis, where you really probably could consider that an all out crash, prices were down more than 20% nationally, more than 40% 50% in some markets, all right. Well, how did that concerning period compare to now? Well, 2008 is when conditions were largely opposite of what they are now that is back 2008 we had an oversupply of homes, and it was all supported by poorly underwritten mortgages, meaning the borrower really couldn't afford the payment. And also that's when people had low or no equity in homes, so they just walked away, so borrowers had no equity to lose, nor any credit score to protect, and it was oversupplied there about 17 years ago. I mean, that era was so bad and also such an anomaly, that home prices actually fell below the replacement cost, if you can believe that, meaning that you could ostensibly buy existing property for less than the cost that it would take to build a property, then all right. Well, all three of those conditions are opposite. Now today, we have an under supply of homes. Secondly, we have carefully underwritten mortgages, and thirdly, we have record high equity positions, about 300k on average. People are not walking away from that unless things got absolutely dire. All right, with that historical context. So here we are building up to my factors for the forecast, and then the big reveal of the percent figure here, before we're done, to be clear, what I'm providing is the projected sales price of existing single family homes per the National Association of Realtors, stat set. All right, so why existing? And not include the new builds into that? Well, first of all, there are way more existing home sales. Then there are new build sales each year. And see, the thing is, though, that tracking new build that really skews the numbers, because what can happen is, one year, you might have a ton of luxury new build homes. Well then that skews the numbers up too much. Or then there's the more nascent trend of what's happening lately, building smaller homes this past year in order to help with affordability and building smaller that can skew the numbers down. So sticking with existing homes that allows us to keep things more same same. Today, you'll learn about what goes into my forecast and the factors that actually don't matter as much as you would think, like the incoming Trump administration. You'll also hear an important clip from Trump in a few minutes for the second week in a row, I'm bringing you the show from a fairly interesting place, Anchorage, Alaska. This city of 300,000 people, is at sea level. The west side is confined by a coast. The east side is confined by mountains. It's a modern US city. There are high rise buildings and convention centers and freeways and a really convenient International Airport. What's interesting about being in America's northernmost city right now? Anchorage is. That Saturday, just a couple of days ago, that was the winter Equinox for half of the globe, the entire northern hemisphere. And here, the sunrise time is about 10:15am, and sunset about 3:45pm, that right there is just five and a half hours of daylight. That's it, but it feels like more than that. It feels closer to perhaps seven plus hours of daylight, because at high latitudes, the sun barely drops below the horizon, so therefore you get more Twilight on either end of sunrise in Sunset. Well, this is a real estate show, so I hope that's not too much of an astronomy lesson for you here. But anchorage can never get 24 hours of daylight or darkness, because it simply is not far enough north. In fact, when I fly from, say, the center of the 48 states out here. I travel more west than North. The thing for you to remember is that the only places on the globe that can get 24 hours of daylight and darkness are inside the Arctic and Antarctic circles. They're at 63 and 1/3 degrees of latitude or greater, and Anchorage is just 61 I've been skiing here, but suffice to say, with a lot of darkness, it's been a good place for me to study research and put my effort into this forecast that I'm sharing with you today, which you'll hear after the break. 

 

This week's episode is supported by ridge lending group. It's the same place where I get my investment property mortgages and refinancings, you can go ahead and originate your loans at the same place I get mine, that is Ridgelendinggroup.com.  Also freedom family investments, you can make a loan and get a stable return of 7% 8% or Even 10% yet still have some measure of liquidity. Why park your funds at a bank? You can learn about their private money loans by texting FAMILY to 66866, if you want 8% or more on your money while it's on your mind, just text FAMILY to 66866, and see if it's right for you. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, more next you're listening to get rich education. 

 

Oh geez, the national average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings, so your bank is getting rich off of you. You've got to earn way more, or else you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work with minimum risk. Your Cash generates up to a 10% return and compounds year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25k you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back. Their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And you know how I'd know, because I'm an investor in this myself, earn 10% like me and GRE listeners are text FAMILY to 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text, FAMILY to 66866.

 

hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they've provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation, because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com

 

Tom Wheelwright  24:08  

This is Rich Dad Advisor Tom Wheelwright. Listen to Get Rich Education with Keith Weinhold, and Don't Quit Your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  24:24  

welcome back to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, with the factors that are weighing into my home price appreciation determination for next year. Here now all of these factors matter, but I'm generally going to start with less weighty factors and proceed more toward the weighty factors Trump tariffs. Could Trump tariffs increase materials costs, the cost of materials that go into homes? Well, yes, of course, they could. Could it also increase the labor costs that go into those homes, if, say, businesses decide to onshore. Sure in order to avoid paying the tariffs, yes, and you would have to pay a higher wage to Americans. That's obviously inflationary, but applying tariffs is slow, and it takes a long time to trickle through, okay? But here's the thing, even the threat of tariffs can produce inflation, and we already have the threat that's something real. And now see if you're a consumer and you want to buy a new washer, dryer set or a microwave, well, you're more motivated to do that today, not in a year, because this threat of tariffs might mean that that appliances price will spike. You might want to buy your new car now, if you anticipate the terrace could be coming and it's going to affect that well, the apartment building owner feels the same way before she or he buys 48 washer dryers for their apartment building. Home Builders and remodelers they want to get their materials orders in now, in some cases, whether that's for concrete, drywall, lumber, any component that goes into a home where they think that a tariff could jack up the price, you really need to be paying attention to whether you think this is going to happen or not. So Trump likely means more inflation, and that correlates also with sustained higher interest rates of all kinds, including mortgage rates. And there's no certainty there. There is just that correlation. Now, a lot of real estate investors anticipate that a president with a real estate investor background like Trump Has he is going to return 100% bonus depreciation and extend his tax breaks, okay, all of these things, especially that bonus depreciation, can really enhance your tax situation, but that's not part of the home price appreciation forecast for next year. Okay, we're just looking at next year here. How about mortgage rates? How is that going to factor into home prices for next year? Mortgage rates hardly matter. And the newer listener that you are, the more of a surprise that is, rates are about 7% now, a lot of experts think they're going to go to 6% in a year. But who knows? I mean, a year ago, everyone thought rates would be substantially lower today. But here's the thing, it's not just a who knows. It's almost a who cares about what mortgage rates will be when it comes to prices. Because, like I've shared with you before, since 1994 mortgage rates have risen 1% or more seven different times, and home prices went up all seven times.  Long time listeners like you, you already know this, so for the complete backstory on the why, you can listen to earlier episodes, but the short story is that higher rates, you gotta look at what's happening when there are high rates that's a confirmation that the economy is strong, and when the economy is strong and people feel secure in their job, what do they do? They buy a home. So mortgage rates matter, but a person's personal economy matters more when they make a decision to buy a home or not. A sharp fall in rates that correlates with a recession. So higher rates usually lead to higher home prices, something that almost everyone in real estate thinks of oppositely. On weeks with lower rates this year, we did have lower housing inventory, and with higher rates, we had higher inventory. So that did affect that the next factor is more important than tariffs and mortgage rates, and that is Trump and immigration. Okay? Because this affects the supply versus demand component of housing, something supremely important. Well, more immigrants mean more housing demand, pushing up prices and on immigration, who really knows how many of this surge of fresh immigrants are going to be deported? Will it only be the illegals, or will it be others? Or will it be none at all? Or will it be something else, will trump deport everyone? I mean, that is not easy to do, and it's really expensive. Here are Trump's latest public remarks on how he's going to treat recent immigrants to the US. The interviewer is Kristen Welker from NBC, and she's heard shuffling some papers here too. So don't let that throw you off as you listen to Trump. 

 

Speaker 1  29:39  

You raised the point that the logistics are complicated. You said yourself, everything's gone. You mean you need 24 times more ICE detention capacity just to deport 1 million people per year, not to mention more agents, more judges, more planes. Is it realistic to deport everyone? First of all, they're costing us a fortune, but we're starting. With the criminals, and we got to do it, and then we're starting with others, and we're going to see how it goes

 

Keith Weinhold  30:06  

well there, before Trump's first day in office for his second term, see he's already saying we'll see how it goes with deporting immigrants. He now realizes how costly that is. If there is mass deportation, housing demand goes down, but we'd also have fewer laborers, which a lot of those immigrants are, to build the new housing that our country needs. So there's somewhat of a canceling out effect there. It could mean higher home prices because it could even mean higher home prices because most fresh immigrants are renters. They aren't occupying homes that they own anyway, and just how many people we're talking about here, the Pew Research Center estimates that 13% of construction workers are undocumented. That disruption to the labor market that can produce higher inflation, because the slowdown in home building means less supply and higher prices. Now let's get to the biggest factor before I provide my track record, and then the big number, and that is more on the housing supply versus demand. So yeah, it's really fundamental economics. That's the core driver of next year's anticipated home price change. All right, let's start with supply. How undersupplied of housing are we still in the US? Well, an update on the Fred active listing count, and this is for single families, condos and townhomes. It's that we are up off the bottom, but we're still a good 40% or so below the equilibrium point where demand meets supply. America grew its available inventory 27% this year, pretty significant, and next year, it might grow another 15 or 20% that's my best guess. All right then, well, let's try to project future supply by what you have to do is look at new housing starts. That means shovels in the ground. That means taking a backhoe and excavating for spread footings, digging that trench that you're going to pour concrete into, starting homes from the ground up. Well, we don't have enough starts either not enough. In fact, we could be digging a deeper hole with the under supply at our current level of building, US housing under supply will grow by over 200,000 homes per year if we continue at this low level of building. And would you consider all housing types, single family homes, apartments, mobile homes, condos, ADUs, everything? Freddie Mac estimates that we are currently under supplied by a whopping 3.7 million housing units. Now, you probably heard figures like that before, but let me put it into perspective. At two persons per home, our shortage is greater than what could house the entire population of Libya. That's what we're talking about here. And some agencies estimate we're even more undersupplied than the 3.7 million homes. Now, of course, I'm making only a national forecast today. There are regional variations in some Texas and Florida sub markets, they have built plenty of new build single family homes now, let me tell you something scary. What if your income dropped by a third, making 1/3 less in the future than you do right now? Like that would be a moment of panic for a lot of people, you and your family, as you hold that thought when it comes to supply, this year had historically low home sales. When I talk about sales, these are not prices. This is different. This is the volume of sales. Next year, there will likely only be a few more sales than this year, and there weren't many this year. Now see for you, as an individual real estate investor and a consumer that goes grocery shopping, you know, you are interested in real estate prices, but the industry, if you work in the industry, like as a builder or as a real estate agent or even a furniture provider, they are more concerned about the number of home sales. This sales volume that I'm talking about, and here's what's going on, normal is about 5 million home sales per year. It was over 6 million during the pandemic, and now we're down at 4 million. So I mean, in a short period of time to go from 6 million down to 4 million, that is a drawdown of transactions by a third. So just imagine if you are a home builder or a real estate agent, or you're in the retail furniture business and your volume is down by a third. I mean, what would happen to you if your income were down by a third? And you're in one of those industries and you don't have a way to pivot, so that is scary stuff for that subset of people. Well, while all of that was happening to sales volume, lower and lower volume. Home prices have just kept ticking up these past few years. All right. Well, that was supply, and there is one last factor to weigh before I reveal the forecast number, and that is demand. There is a long way to go before there is enough housing inventory for the pent up demand in the housing market, pent up demand from these people that can't quite afford a home. Demographics is destiny. You know, it is one of the easiest things to project, because demographics is a known forget immigration here, because I already talked about that just domestically, the US had its own high birth rate years from 1990 to 2010 and most people don't know about this. Many of those years between 1990 and 2010 there were over 4 million births annually, and that peaked in the year 2007 All right, you might be wondering, so what? That's the past? What about the future? Well, in housing prices, that right there is the future, with today's first time homebuyer now being a record 38 years old, like I told you about a few episodes ago. Alright, if you add 38 to the year that they were born, 2007 that home buyer demand won't peak until the year 2045 so that is a big part of where the demand just keeps coming from, and is going to keep coming from this wave of demographic demand that might not slow down much until the 2050s and what could slow prices is if a major recession that included a lot of job losses were eminent, that could slow home price growth. But nobody expects that. you know something, on future demand, What if health and fitness influencer Brian Johnson is right, and Earth now has the first generation not to die. What would that do to real estate prices? Have you ever thought that through that would really expand housing demand, but that wouldn't affect things for a couple decades. All right, well, let's talk track record and understand that it is pretty difficult to predict the future, and I have made all these forecasts at the end of one year, just before the forecast year even starts, just like I'm doing today, and here's how I've done at the end of 2021 for 2022 I forecast 9-10% home price appreciation the year ended, and in 2022 they came in at 10% so I got that one right. For 2023 before that year even began, I forecast 0% just that home prices would stay flat. And by the way, so many people were calling for a housing price decline that year because mortgage rates had risen. But as we know here on the show, when mortgage rates rise, home prices typically do too. And I also said back then was supply so low, I don't really see how home prices could fall. Well, the year ended, and sure enough, they came in at 0% and all of this is published in on record. You can go back and find all this, in fact, for 2024 you can hear the forecast that I made near the end of last year for 2024 and you could do that by going back and listening to Episode 481 this is episode 533 that was 52 weeks ago, and you will hear that my forecast back then for this year's home price appreciation was 4% this year is not quite over, plus housing data lags somewhat, in fact, through October, however, they were 4.1%

 

we've almost got that November number, not quite, but it's very likely going to end up being 4% this year, just like I had forecast at the end of Last year, but it's still officially to be determined. Before I gave the awaited fresh forecast for next year with what looks to me like really nailing the forecast spot on three years in a row now you might be wondering something, how did I know? How did I have the foresight to know that and nail those. Forecasts. You know, at this point, I have to concede that there's probably a little luck that has come into play, but this is what I do. I study research and even participate in the National residential housing market. What you're getting is my best estimate. It's not any sort of promise or guarantee. I mean, like all other 8.1 billion human beings on earth, I don't have a crystal ball, and a streak like this has gone on for three years, but it cannot go on forever. So this is what I can best surmise. So really, for 2025 The short story is that I expect more buyers than homes, which creates bids and buoyant prices. I also expect continued inflationary pressure. Those are the two chief factors that went into this. We don't ever revise our forecast mid year. This is it. For 2025 I expect home prices to increase by 5%. Yes, there it is 5% projected appreciation for next year. And to be clear, that is the NARS national median existing single family home price, the same stat set that I have cited all four years again, it is nominal, meaning, not inflation adjusted, so at Christmas or New Year's or your next dinner party, when You see your slack jawed brother in law that thinks the housing market is always going to crash, give the dude a hug and a turkey leg and tell him that I expect plus 5% and pass me the wishbone for good luck on our fourth consecutive housing price appreciation forecast, I really hope that this helps with planning your own portfolio moves, whether that's you owning more income property next year or doing a refinancing, or how you think about your own primary residence. And do you like the forecast that I've done here near the end of each year ever since 2021 if you do let us know, write us or leave us voicemail at get rich education.com/contact let me know you can always get a hold of us there year round with any type of feedback or questions. 

 

Hey, if you appreciate this show here, do you think that you could help me out in one small way? Call it my Christmas gift request. There's only one item on my Christmas list, and it should only take a couple minutes of your time and none of your money. Leave a podcast rating and review for the get rich education podcast on Apple podcasts or Spotify, or wherever you listen, the rating is the five star thing. The review is a few short sentences about why you like the show. I would really appreciate the gift from you, and I will read your review myself too. If you don't know how to do it right inside those listener apps, just open up a browser tab and search how to leave an apple podcast review, or Spotify podcast review, or whatever platform you prefer to listen on it would feel like a little Christmas gift to me after all these years, I'd love your feedback given that way. Tell me what you think, and thanks from me and the entire team here at GRE Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your day dream.

 

Speaker 2  43:46  

nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  44:06  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building. Get rich education.com

 

 

Are you a real estate investor looking to maximize your returns and minimize hassles with your rental properties? This is a must-listen! You'll discover proven strategies for quickly filling vacant units and attracting high-quality, long-term tenants. 

Hear Keith share insider tips on leveraging rent increases to boost your cash flow and property values. 

Plus, you'll learn about an innovative financial tool - a Home Equity Investment - that can unlock a lump sum of cash from your properties without any monthly payments. 

Tune in to get the edge on managing your rentals like a true pro and building lasting wealth through real estate. 

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Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, talking about the dynamic between rents and prices, how to keep your vacancy rate low and the relationship between landlords and tenants. Learn about how a newer vehicle can give you a big lump of cash from your property without you having to make any payments, then inflation is your wealth building, Friend, yeah? really today on get rich education. 

 

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when you want the best real estate and finance info, the modern Internet experience limits your free articles access, and it's replete with paywalls and you get pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers, ugh. At no other time in history has it been more vital to place nice, clean, free content in your hands that actually adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters. And I write ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it is to the point to get it. It couldn't be more simple. Just type up a text message with the letters G, R, E in the body and send it to the phone number, 66866, and when you start the free newsletter, you'll also get my one hour fast real estate course, completely free. Subscribe to my Don't quit your Daydream newsletter, and your mind will be wired for wealth. Text GRE to 66866, text GRE to 66866,

 

Corey Coates  3:02  

you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  3:18  

Welcome to GRE from Villa Lenovo, Pennsylvania to Villanueva, Columbia, and across 488 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold in your listening to get rich education. I'm really grateful to have you as always. When you invest, you are buying a day that you don't have to work. That's what we're helping you do here every single week own real estate, and it's going to allow you to buy back big chunks of time for yourself later. And that's a big deal because your very life is made up of chapters of time. It's actually really cool when you own investment properties in a few different places, then you actually own part of, say, Indiana and Tennessee and Georgia. You own parts of those states. That's what we help you do here. And that sounds cool. Sounding cool, though, is not enough. There need to be good fundamental reasons behind the real estate portfolio that you are building. It's kind of interesting. With rental property investing, you're kind of doing the little things in order to hold together the big profitable picture, because there are all these forces that are simultaneously creating wealth for you when you've got income property with a loan. So yeah, you're just sort of trying to hold it together. You say, don't get your vacant property rented as soon as you want. So you might drop the rent 50 bucks and add a nice new kitchen faucet and ta da, just like that. It's rented, and all while you're doing those little things. Things to hold it together. Whether your property is vacant or rented, you are benefiting from leverage and inflation. Profiting on your loan. You're benefiting from some big forces either way. Well, on today's show, first, we're going to be talking about the little things like the one on one relationship between you and your tenant, and then later on the show today, that's when we'll grow and talk about a more macro force, like new ways for you to think about how you're benefiting from inflation when we talk about rents prices and the relationship between a real estate investor like you and your tenant. Recently, on the show here, I talked about how the 4.6% growth in wages like we do have today, that is a harbinger of you getting future rent growth. And this can get rent growth to catch up with the growth that we've had in property prices. And note that this is what happens. You need to remember that the bid format of buying property that allows for more rapid price escalation than the first come first serve at a set price format that you have when you're trying to rent out your property. All right, when you put up a property for sale, or you're the person that's buying one, that's usually not in a first come first serve process that's more of a competitive bid process. And see that is exactly why, in a hot market, real estate prices can run up fast. But because, say, you're renting out a property, and you're doing that, you're usually not accepting offers from prospective tenants and then taking the tenant that has the highest bid. Well, instead with rents, you're just taking the qualified first tenant that agrees to your fixed rent price of, say, $2,000 Okay, your prospective tenant isn't saying, Oh, I really like your rental, single family home, so I'll pay you $2,200 for instead of the 2000 that you're asking. And see that right there is why, in a hot market, property prices run up faster than rents do. But see when prices run up faster than rents, like they did, starting about four years ago, what happens is that begins to make rents, oh, they look like a relative bargain to people that are seeking housing. So that is the time that pivot point when rents catch up with prices, which is the cycle that I hope we are getting into next. Now. Right now, we have to be at a time of year where tenants tend to stay put. There isn't as much turnover as you approach the holidays, but a few months from now, turnover tends to pick up in the springtime. And before we talk about the economics of what you do when you have a vacant unit, understand that despite the national housing shortage, the rental vacancy rate really is not that low nationwide. Do you have any idea what the historically average rental vacancy rate is? You have any guess there? That's about 7% 7.3% to be exact. That's why, when you run your cash flow analysis for a property using one month per year is usually pretty safe, that's about 8% Well, all right, we've established that the long term national rate of vacancy is 7.3% the current vacancy rate is 6.9% and yes, that number is just what it sounds like. It's simply the percentage of rental inventory that's available for rent, and it maxed out at 11% back in 2009 that's when housing was badly overbuilt, and now with the housing shortage, you'll see that today's vacancy rate is only a little below normal, 7.3 versus 6.9 maybe you're wondering, well, why isn't it even lower, like five or 6% Well, one big reason why vacancy rates are just a little lower than the long run average is all of the apartment over building like I discussed with you two weeks on the show and I told you about my walk on rainy street in Austin, Texas last month, where they're building gobs of 500 foot tall apartment towers that aren't going to be occupied for a while, and I called that area America's apartment oversupply ground zero. But as you know, there are so many ways to parse and dissect real estate markets. The vacancy rate for apartment buildings today is 7.8% nationally, but for single family rental homes, it's only 5.4% that's because their supply is more scarce. But since there aren't many new apartment projects just getting started now, they're just completing when they started about two years ago, I would expect the apartment vacancy rate to come down over the next couple of years. And then, of course, each local area is going to have its own vacancy rate too. I mean, there are so many ways to parse, to bifurcate real estate, and all those figures I gave you are per the US Census. Well, I've explained to you before that when you have a vacant unit, that is the time for you to really push it test the market. Start your asking rent up rather high in order to see what you can get for it. And this is what's known in economics, in the free market as price discovery. This is your time for price discovery, but you usually only want to keep the rent way high for just a few days, otherwise you might needlessly increase your vacancy period. But here's the thing, if your unit is vacant after a number of showings, is it better for you to drop the rent, or instead, is it better for you to make some upgrades to the unit and keep that higher asking rent? Well, like seemingly everything in real estate investing, the short answer for you is, it depends right the upside of you dropping the rent is that it's a lot quicker and easier to do than making an upgrade to the unit. I mean, just snap your fingers and it's done. Dropping the rent might only take a few seconds or minutes, but see when you keep the higher asking rent and you make upgrades, you do more than just increase your rent income. You get a better quality tenant, first of all, and secondly, if you get, say, 5% more rent depending on your leverage position, you might get 10% more cash flow, that money that you feel in your pocket every month. A lot of landlords don't even consider those two attributes right there. See, when you get 5% more rent for a unit your tenant, of course, they only have to pay 5% more, yet you yourself as the property provider, you're getting perhaps 8% or 10% or 12% more money in your pocket because of the leverage. And right there, I essentially just described the third crown of get rich. Education's inflation triple crown for you. That third crown is called Cash Flow enhancement. And really there's another, I guess, a third here wealth building attribute that you've accomplished through achieving a higher rent, and that is, if it happens to be a five plus unit apartment building, you also actually just increase the value of the entire property, since they are valued on the net operating income in the cap rate. So we're talking about vacancy, rent and real estate economics here with three distinct elements that I just described about how upgrading and achieving a higher rent gives you a lot of distinct advantages. The downside of it being that it takes more time. And there's another one. What are we up to here? A fourth upside to upgrading and achieving more asking rent, as opposed to doing the minimum for lower rent. And that is, well, it's your pride of ownership. I mean, you're providing good housing now your whole mission is not about altruism alone, but you'll feel like you're on a more fulfilling mission when you are like I often say, providing housing that's clean, safe, still affordable and functional. There's a fifth reason in that is that higher rents help you deal with higher operating expenses. But maybe it's beyond just the way in which you're thinking. And you know, a lot of people really don't understand this or put this together. In fact, I was talking with a real estate investor last month at the New Orleans investment conference. He was talking about rising insurance expenses on his properties, saying that he had one property that just had a insurance premium increase of 10% and he sounded a little disappointed, saying that, well, I can't get 10% more rent, but I've got this 10% higher insurance premium. So you know, he was thinking that he was losing? No, he's not necessarily losing, because in absolute dollar terms, you're charging your tenant multiples more in rent than what you're being charged in insurance. Say that you're charging 2000 bucks in rent on a unit. All right? Well, on a monthly basis, just say that your insurance payment works out to 200 bucks on that unit. All right. Well, with just 5% more rent, that's $2,100 a $100 increase, but if your insurance goes up 10% from 200 to 220 bucks, that's just a $20 increase. So right there in that example, your rent increase is half of your insurance rate increase percentage wise, but in dollar terms, your rent just went up five times as fast as your insurance did, and you are even more cash flow positive than you were previously. So the point is in your monthly profit and loss statement, your cash flow statement, on your property, even your pro forma, keep in mind that your rent amount, that is the biggest monthly number, and being attentive to it can cure so many ills. And when you realize this, this plethora of positives, if you will, it can make a decision to, yeah, do something like replace that old Berber carpet with new vinyl plank flooring, and make that look more attractive to you, and it's gonna look more attractive to your tenant, and you're probably gonna get a higher quality tenant than what you would have placed otherwise. And when you upgrade a unit, not only is your property worth more, but you usually don't pay a higher insurance premium as a result of making that upgrade at all, despite your higher valuation. In fact, sometimes lower rents are subsidized by deferred maintenance, like a leaky faucet or a big crack in a ceiling, all right, now all of these things are sort of hard economic facts when it comes to the relationship between landlord and tenant. Let me then tell you about a, I guess, softer sensibility. Okay, let's get touchy feely for a minute, and that is the words that we use. In fact, those very landlord and tenant words themselves. Back in 2021 there is a first of its kind, legislation that was proposed in Ohio to change references in their state law from the word landlord to housing provider and from the word tenant to resident. Now I think that the word landlord is a rather strange word. I mean, it's kind of weird that we're still using that term today. In fact, in the small town that I grew up in in Appalachia, it was not an affluent area at all, not even close. It was lower middle class. But even as a kid, I knew that my parents owned their home and that all of my friends' parents owned their homes too. It wasn't until I was about age 13 when the Petroski family moved into town, cowdersport, Pennsylvania. They were nice kids. I befriended them, and they soon started using the term landlord. I might have been about 13 until I had even heard the word landlord, and I still remember then that it struck me as a strange sounding term. Now it was all simple, small, single family homes where I grew up, like these 80 year old Victorian homes. No one tried to divide their yard with fences. People didn't lock their doors. It was great. And anyway, the petroskis lived in a single family home that the landlord, Mr. Hosley, had divided up into three separate, walled off units. That's before the term house hacking even existed. But in fact, landlord, it is a futile and perhaps outdated term, and I'd have to agree that, instead of landlord, the term housing provider, you know what better describes you and I's role and the relationship to our tenants or residents. I mean the word landlord that almost sounds like a person is totalitarian or dictatorial, when in fact, most landlords are people like you, smaller and family owned, not land barons. I mean, HUD will tell you that America has 10 to 11 million individual investor landlords, and they manage an average of just two units each. Okay? So hardly dictatorial, not some tyrant that's going around trying to evict everyone. Not despotic. Let me practice a little with you today, is, I'll try to use the term housing provider instead of landlord, as much as I can here see sometimes what happens in society is that the frustration of poverty gets loaded onto housing providers, and that sets up a system of enforcement that assumes that they have an interest in crushing the people that pay them to keep their property businesses running. And the reason that, say, a food provider like a grocer or an entertainment provider like a basketball team owner, you know, they just don't seem to be as unpopular as a housing provider. And one reason for that is because housing is expensive and it's also non discretionary, meaning that everyone has to have housing. So you might consider using the term housing provider more often than landlord, especially around your tenant, if your tenant thinks of you as a housing provider that has to pay. A mortgage and operating expenses every month, rather than a landlord that turns every dollar of rent income into pure profit, which is never true. Well, if they understand that, you're going to be doing better from a tenant relations standpoint, and that's also completely truthful as well. As far as that Ohio State law and changing the word tenant to resident. Yeah, over the years, I know that a lot of people favor that term, including a lot of our turnkey providers at GRE marketplace. I've rode around in cars with them, and they're talking about their market, and they prefer the term resident to tenant. Now, tenant is a feudal term as well. It refers to someone who occupies land from a lord. The more direct term from feudal times is the word vassal. You might remember that from high school, V, A, S, S, a, l, that means a holder of a land that pays allegiance to a lord. Somehow, to me, the word tenant, it just doesn't feel as futile or like it's almost part of a system of oppression, like the word landlord feels. Landlord feels like some king brooding over his serfs. In fact, the word tenant is actually helpful, because if you tell me that a person is a resident, I don't know whether they own or they rent, but if you tell me they're a tenant, I know that they're renting. So tenant helps, because it's more descriptive and tenant does not sound to me like someone is being oppressed, either. But in any case, consider using housing provider rather than landlord. Here in the soft skills department, it can be hard to remember to do that though you're listening to get rich education podcast episode 532 I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, education is in our name, and I've got more learning for you. 

 

Let's discuss something new and learn about what H E i's are that stands for home equity investment, and see if one of them can help you now, HEI's. They're a pretty new way where you can access a chunk of your home's equity without you having to make any ongoing payments. I mean, does that sound amazing, or what? Okay, it does sound amazing. You get a chunk of money out of your property now without making any payments, but there are some downsides to heis, as you might have guessed, all right. Well, first, let's talk about the way that it works. Okay with an hei. What happens is that a portion of your home's equity is given to you in cash, especially given to you by an investment group. Hey, windfall moment sounds amazing, and it gets even better, because you can use the funds however you like. I mean, what could you do with an extra few 10s of 1000s of dollars or hundreds of 1000s of dollars in cash? Further, unlike some of the better known vehicles, like home equity lines of credit and home equity loans, there are truly no payments for you to make with these heis, again, home equity investment, that's what we're talking about here. And better yet, you can access your funds in as little as a few weeks. And, yes, I mean, this sounds amazing, but you have got to be wondering, what is the catch with HEI's, and there are some what is in it for the investor? Is this investment group? Well, when you're ready to settle the investment years down the road, they are going to be paid out their agreed upon share as the percentage of the sale price or the appraised value. All right. So as you balance that and think that through who is an HEI for, then it's good for a borrower like you, in case you don't have great credit, or if you have a high debt to income ratio, is especially great if you are house rich and cash poor. And the reason that I'm talking about heis now is that more people find themselves in that very situation today, house rich and cash poor, and that's because Americans are sitting on all time, record equity levels of more or less 300k today. All right, that is the house rich part and more Americans are cash poor today. That's due to higher inflation. All right. Well, now that you know the basics of what a home equity investment is and what the upsides are, what about the downsides? More downsides of feeling this near term windfall without you having to make any payments? Well, your mortgage company might block you from taking on an HEI because see what you're doing is you're taking on another lien holder. Understand that with. An Hei, you've now got more of a lien than you do a loan, and much like a reverse mortgage, heis can also have high fees, and additionally, down the road, that investor might take a big chunk of the home's appreciation, that stuff should all be laid out in your terms up front. So that's something you ought to be able to see coming. All right. Well, now we're a real estate investing show here, so you're probably wondering, okay, great, and you've been hearing me use the word home, but can you get it on your non owner occupied property? Yes, at times you can get an HEI on rental property, but the terms are probably going to be less advantageous, then they will be on your primary residence. Now you might see he is referred to as a product of financial innovation, which is sort of synonymous with another term, financial engineering. And you know, whenever you see those terms, you typically want to exercise caution. Now that alone doesn't mean that an HEI is wrong for you. And of course, with any investment type, although it's usually not your main decision driver, you're going to want to learn about the tax consequences as well. And you might note that home equity investments are also known as a Home Equity sharing agreement, and although that's a longer term, it is more descriptive, and it makes sense because you and an investor partner are essentially sharing in your home's equity together. Now, as a GRE follower, you're able to understand what an investment like this would mean to you and your financial future. Since the rate of return from home equity is always yes, always zero, with an Hei, now you can separate out some equity, and now you'll have the potential for dollars that can earn a return somewhere, and you're going to enjoy better liquidity as well. But Caveat emptor, buyer beware with heis. 

 

The GRE studio has been mobilized a lot lately, as I am here in Anchorage, Alaska today. And what am I doing here? Well, besides studying the housing market, not any local one, but the national housing market. I have also been skiing this week. Hey, when it comes to subscribing to our newsletter, which I do write myself, you might not have realized something. I don't overwhelm your inbox. When you start subscribing, you'll get a welcome set of emails that send every other day for about 10 days, but that's just in the beginning. After that, my newsletter is only sent about weekly whenever there's something critical in the real estate investing world that you really need to know about. It's also brief. It's important to keep it short because your time is valuable. And have you ever noticed that even the word abbreviation is too long? Our don't with your Daydream newsletter is always less than a five minute read. It's usually less than a three minute read to get the letter just text GRE to 66866, right now, see even opting in to get my crucial letter is brief. Now you can text GRE to 66866, more. Next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education. 

 

Oh, geez, the national average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings, so your bank is getting rich off of you. You've got to earn way more, or else you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work with minimum risk, your cash generates up to a 10% return and compounds year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25k you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back. Their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And you know how I'd know, because I'm an investor in this myself, earn 10% like me and giari listeners are. Text FAMILY to 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text FAMILY to 66866 

 

Hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualified. And chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start now while it's on your mind at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com.

 

Tarek El Moussa  30:17  

What's up? Everyone? This is hgtvs Tarek El Moussa. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  30:34  

Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, it's been said that in your life, what you're not changing. You're choosing loads of investors in the 401K or conventional investment plans. They aren't changing the fact that they're only getting their money to work for them. So they're choosing to deny ethically, getting other people's money to work for them, and that's why they have no option other than to work full time until they're old. Well, when you're that savvy borrower now, you're benefiting from both the asset leverage and the inflation profiting, as we know and the way to keep both your leverage high and the inflation profiting on your debt high is to intermittently change the fulcrum on your lever so that you don't have too much equity accumulating in your portfolio. And you also want to be investing in an inflationary environment be a debt DECA millionaire. Remember that term that I introduced to you here a few years ago, if you had ten million in debt at 3% inflation, you're profiting 300k per year just from that alone. Yes, the paradoxically glamorous life of having 10 million in debt, but it's all tied to income properties, so that your tenants make the pay down for you, and inflation pays it down even faster that debt DECA millionaire, he's obviously got to be a pretty creditworthy person in order to get ten million in debt in the first place. Yep, building lasting wealth is not conventional at all. And for the debtor, inflation is therefore your wealth building, friend. It's why, when you see your favorite can of La Columba cold brew coffee, which is a favorite of mine, gosh, it's nice and frothy. If you know, you know, in fact, I'm gonna crack this La Colombe triple draft latte to enjoy after the sh ow there. Did you hear that? No, I don't have any sponsorship with them, but when you see that cold brew price go from $4 to $5 well, that effect makes most people poorer. Some people think that effect makes everyone poor, but it's not making you and I poorer. It's enriching us. When you see consumer price inflation like that, there's a good chance that asset price inflation is occurring as well, and that's why seeing higher prices at grocery stores is probably a subtle signal that you are better off, not worse off. You're better off because you know how to arrange your financial life for inflation rather than being impoverished by it. Congratulations. Let's drink to that with a La Colombe coffee. What you're doing is you are swimming with the river flow, and almost everyone you know is struggling because they chose to swim against the inflationary river flow. See the way that almost everyone that you know goes about earning their income is that they only earn their income once, and they earn it at their job. In an inflationary world, you effectively have to earn your Fiat dollar twice, once when you work for it, and once again, when you invest to beat inflation, otherwise that dollar is just going to evaporate. And that seems so unfair. I mean, why should a surgeon or an athlete, engineer, programmer, accountant, why should those people that are successful in their field and serve society. Why should they have to develop expertise in a second field? Why do they have to do this just to maintain the wealth that they've already built, that they produced out on the free market? Why can't you have a store of value for the future? Inflation is the answer. So they need to develop expertise in a second field, and that's why listening to content just like this is therefore not optional, but it's actually mandatory in this cycle, CPI inflation peaked at 9.1% two and a half years ago, and despite that, has come down quite a bit. It's. A little elevated. It's still not down to the Fed's transparently stated 2% target, and by the way, there is another Fed meeting in two days. If the Fed cuts rates more, bond yields could go higher, which means mortgage rates tend to go higher. Inflation is powerful. A lot of people will tell you that it is the main reason why Jamie Carter wasn't re elected president in 1980 and today they'll tell you why. It's the main reason that it brought down the Biden Harris administration. But see, here's the thing, if you're able to obtain loans in the United States and some other developed countries, understand that you're in a sweet spot, and that sweet spot is a level of inflation that's actually low to moderate by world standards, and not hyper inflationary. All right. Now I know what you might be thinking. You're thinking like, oh, well, hyperinflation would be tremendous for a leveraged real estate investor. Now, why, though, would I say that we don't want hyperinflation? Well, there are countries with a history of hyperinflation, like Turkey, Argentina, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Iran, they have a history of massive currency devaluation. Let's see what happens then is that financing becomes almost non existent in those places. When that happens, I mean history over hunches. History shows us that in places like that, forget about getting home mortgages, investor loans, a credit card, consumer debt, small business loans, unless maybe a usurious interest rates. If the US had a history of hyperinflation or even sustained bouts of really high inflation, then you know what cooperation between borrowers and lenders becomes nearly impossible. Even those governments of those countries, they have trouble borrowing money, except maybe at maturities of a few months. And you know, I always like to make a borrowing lending example with you and your friend. Okay, you don't want to loan your friend $1,000 for a year in hyperinflation, because if the inflation rate were 1,000% then, after a year, the $1,000 that your friend would pay you back, well, that's only $100 worth of purchasing power. Now, all right, that's why, if the US had one bout of hyperinflation, you know, maybe that would be good, because it would seriously wipe out all of your debts one time. If there became a history of that, though, then you might not get access to loans at all. I mean, who would be crazy enough to finance your growing real estate portfolio in hyperinflation? So the fact that globally, the US has low to moderate inflation levels. I mean, that can be a good thing, that inflation is most of the time, a more surreptitious force. It largely went without notice until the pandemic made it flare up and made that LA Columbia cold brew coffee go up, and made property prices and rents go up all while you're fixed. Mortgage payments stayed the same, totally sheltered from the inflation. All right. Well, if my solution to beat inflation by taking on debt and thinking about it that way, if that's not iconoclastic enough, I've got a different strategy for beating inflation, and I think that I did quickly mention this here about a year ago when Doug Casey was our guest on the show. 

 

But yes, I do have another strategy for beating inflation, and it is controversial. It is almost blasphemy to say this out loud on any finance related show this inflation beating strategy, it's guaranteed to improve your quality of life, okay, no speculation here. A guarantee of improving your quality of life is so simple, anyone can easily do it. In fact, you even have companies competing with other companies to get you to do this, and the answer is to spend your money. Yes, I said it out loud. It guarantees that you'll improve your life. It's simple to do. Various counterparties are competing all over the place with each other. They're falling all over each other every single day to try to get you to do this well, as long as you've invested well first and you have ample liquidity by having a healthy relationship with spending there if that crew. Is to the Spanish Riviera in Majorca, is going to cost you $10,000 this year, but it'll be $11,000 next year. Then spend the money today and beat inflation. Yes, I said it. Spend some of your money if you've been listening to this show and following the guidance here, yes, you can afford to do it. I mean, what is money for anyway? And sadly, some like conventional finance professionals, they are reluctant to tell you to spend your money because they're compensated by the percent of your assets that they hold under management. Inflation makes borrowing and spending, then two irresponsible sounding things, borrowing and spending make complete sense when you do it right, like income properties tied to fixed rate loans. 

 

Hey, why? I've got some cool announcements to share with you now and in future months here on the show, I've got a big collaboration coming up with long time friend of GRE here, Robert Helms of the real estate guys and I together. You'll learn more about that in the future. But first coming up this Saturday, the 21st at 3pm Eastern, over on YouTube, I am going to reveal GRE 's national home price appreciation forecast. So yes, to the nearest percent, I'll tell you exactly how much home price appreciation that you will get, an exact number, how much to expect in the US next year. Or, Hey, maybe I think that home prices will make a rare fall next year, what you're going to get that number, if that's what I forecast, you can go to our get rich education YouTube channel anytime here and make sure that you set a notification so that you are informed again. That's Saturday the 21st at 3pm eastern over on our get rich education YouTube channel, I expect that that information is going to benefit you. 

 

Hey, if you appreciate the show here, do you think that you could help me out in just one small way? Call it my Christmas gift request. There's just one item on my Christmas list with you, and it should only take a couple minutes of your time leave a podcast rating and review for the show on Apple podcasts or Spotify. The rating is the five star thing. The review is a few sentences about what you get out of the show here. I would really appreciate the, I suppose, gift from you, and I will read your review myself too, if you don't know how to do it right inside those listener apps. Just open up a browser tab and search how to leave an apple podcast review or Spotify podcast review, or whatever platform you prefer to listen on. Yeah, it would feel like a little Christmas gift to me after all these months and years of listening, go ahead and provide me with some feedback. Tell me what you think, and thanks so much. Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Dolf Deroos  43:10  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  43:38  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get rich, education.com

 

From railroad conductor to becoming a successful real estate investor and replacing his day job in just 3 years. On today’s episode, Keith chats with one of our very own GRE listeners, Grant Francke, about what he did to build his portfolio to quit his steady union job. 

Hear about the importance of having a clear "why" for investing and setting specific goals.

We discuss the concept of inflation profiting on debt and how it contributes to wealth building

Leveraging cash-out refinances and 1031 exchanges as a strategy to scale up and diversify. 

Resources:

Check out Grant Francke’s book “The Unlikely Investor” here.

Show Notes:

GetRichEducation.com/531

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Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, it's a highly relatable show today because you're going to meet a fellow GRE listener and real estate investor like you that use the principles of this show to build wealth, and he reached real estate financial freedom even faster than I did today on get rich education.

 

Mid south home buyers, I mean, they're total pros, with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your ROI as their North Star. So it's no wonder that smart investors just keep lining up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone. They're headquartered in Memphis and have globally attractive cash flows, an A plus rating with a better business bureau and now over 5000 houses renovated. There's zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate, while their average renter stays more than three and a half years. Every home they offer has brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs, and wait for it, a high quality renter. Remember that part and in an astounding price range, 100 to 180k I've personally toured their office and their properties in person in Memphis, get to know Mid South. Enjoy cash flow from day one, start yourself right now at mid south homebuyers.com that's mid south homebuyers.com

 

Keith Weinhold

when you want the best real estate and finance info, the modern Internet experience limits your free articles access, and it's a replete with paywalls, and you get pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers, ugh. And no other time in history has it been more vital to place nice, clean, free content in your hands that actually adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it is to the point to get it. It couldn't be more simple. Just type up a text message with the letters G, R, E in the body and send it to the phone number, 66866, and when you start the free newsletter, you'll also get my one hour fast real estate course, completely free. Subscribe to my Don't quit your Daydream newsletter, and your mind will be wired for wealth. Text GRE to 66866, text GRE to 66866.

 

Corey Coates  2:57  

you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  3:13  

Welcome to GRE from Washington Crossing Pennsylvania to cross City Florida and across one area, nations worldwide, you're listening to one of America's longest running and most listened to real estate shows. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education here for you every single Monday, every week, without fail. This is the voice of real estate investing Since 2014 you know, being successful in real estate such that you can quit your job when you're young enough to enjoy it is counter cultural, even kind of Bohemian. I mean, just imagine telling yourself this or saying this to somebody else. First, I had a lot of debt, then my situation got even better, because we had a surge of high inflation, and it's all making me rich. To that, most conventional financial wisdom would reply like, Dude, are you nuts? Maybe. But I'll tell you what, I'm not normal. I wouldn't want to be normal. That's a real pejorative, right there. Normalcy is, like, slanderous. Yep, you gotta get iconoclastic. Well, it's all grounded in fundamentals. Yep, inflation dilutes your debt for you, and it's almost perfectly predictable that that's gonna happen too by following principles just like that aligned with GRE 's inflation triple crown, and that real estate pays five ways. The guest that you'll meet today, yeah, he did reach financial freedom faster than I did. You're gonna hear about how he did it. It's like I've said on the show here before. I am divulging to you the information that I wish I had when I started out, because if I had this when I began, I would have reached financial freedom sooner. You know, after I bought my first ever income property, that fourplex, I didn't buy my next investment property for almost five years. Okay, it was not a fast timeline for me, but after about four years from buying that seminal first property, I started analyzing what it was doing for me, and I well, not only wanted to buy more, but I would soon learn that really the lessons I extracted from that property, I ended up articulating that in ways that no one else that I know of has. Today's listener guest is from a Midwestern MSA of 343,000 people that we haven't discussed on the show before, at least in any detail. And that's also the market that he invests in. Let's meet him.

 

Keith Weinhold  6:05  

From time to time, we like to have a GRE listener on the show to learn about how the show has changed their life, and also discover you know just what you're out there doing as a real estate investor. And this is because other listeners can find these episodes so relatable. Today's listener guest is from Nebraska, and he listened to GRE in the commute to and from his job for years back when he still had one, because he's a success story. Since he has replaced his day job income with rental properties in just three years, which is a remarkably fast timeline, and now he's got more time freedom for his passions or for his family and kids. So we're gonna learn about how he did that. Hey, welcome to the show. GRE listener GrantFrancke, Thanks, Keith. Honored to be here. Frankie is spelled F, R, a, n, C, K, E, and Grant, this is great that you've been on this fast timeline to produce financial freedom. But before we talk about that, let's back up. Tell us about your beginning like your family situation in your now, I guess former job.

 

Grant Francke  7:09  

great question. So I started it out as a conductor for BNSF Railways. So I was a trained conductor. I started out there pretty much right out of high school. It's a great job if you don't have any family or kids because you're gone all the time you work crazy hours. Yeah. So it was great before I was married, but then I got married, I was like, I don't really love this as much. And then once we had our two kids, I was like, I've got to find something else that can get me that time, freedom to spend more time with them. And stumbled on real estate and started going that route.

 

Keith Weinhold  7:40  

Some people don't have that mindset. They justify working overtime because, well, I'm away from my kids, but I'm working for them, but with financial freedom, you really can have both a time for your children when you want it and the income that you desire a railroad conductor. So I believe that's different from a railroad engineer, right? The railroad engineer is the person that kind of drives the train and changes the speed in the conductor. They're the one that's sort of making sure that the staff and the cargo and the passengers are taken care of. Is that what a railroad conductor does?

 

Grant Francke  8:12  

Yep. So we only did cargo freight, so I was in charge of, like, how fast we could go, what was all in the train, talking to the dispatcher and making sure we're going the right directions and and taking the right sightings, and then if anything broke down on the train, we'd have to go back and take care of it. But yes, the engineer is the one who he physically drives a train, and we're kind of like the co pilot.

 

Keith Weinhold  8:32  

You talked about how you were away, and it takes an awful lot of hours. You based there in Nebraska, geographically, what kind of routes Did you run?

 

Grant Francke  8:41  

 It's 300 miles from Lincoln. So I was based out of Lincoln Nebraska. So it's about 300 miles, yeah, so we did to Kansas City, cook Nebraska, some places out in Iowa, up north, to Sioux City. And those trips ranged from 36 to 48 hours, round trip for us to be gone and back.

 

Keith Weinhold  8:58  

making the economy run there, but this was, you know, rather time consuming, obviously pretty disruptive to one schedule there when you're working long shifts or away for these long periods of time. So okay, it sounds like you got the idea that you wanted something where you could control your time better. There are so many ways to produce income in an informal sense, there's entrepreneurship, which might be something like you could have launched your own app or started a donut shop. Then there's something more passive when it comes to investing. I mean, most people that are working at a job, they even think, Oh, hey, I have my investing bucket covered because I invest through my employer in 401k and that's good enough. But somehow you must have had this notion in you that this wasn't good enough. So tell us about how and why real estate.

 

Grant Francke  9:42  

I've always been like, somewhat handy. So I was gonna go and just be a GC or a handyman. I was Googling around, and I found a post that said that the best customers for handymen are landlords, because they keep you busy and they always got work. I was like, Oh, that's great idea. So I stumbled upon a podcast. Where it was a handyman who became a landlord, he recommended a book on there called Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So I went and got that book, and then my life was changed after that.

 

Keith Weinhold  10:11  

It's amazing how that little purple book influences so many of us. Okay, so that sort of opened you up to the concept of real estate investing and Rich Dad content is terrific. A lot of times, though, it doesn't really get down into the nuts and bolts too much. So just in your educational journey, where did you progress from the rich dad school of thought?

 

Grant Francke  10:30  

Yeah, so Rich Dad, Poor Dad kind of taught me about that not spending your giving your time for money is creating that loop of the money. So after that, you know, I started off just listening to all the podcasts. You know, I'd listen to your podcast, bigger pockets, Kathy Fettke, I'd listen to all those just on repeat, reading all the books that I could get my hands on. Because I was just once, I started learning about real estate. And it did scratch that entrepreneurial bug that I did have. It kind of gave me the both of the passive income and being able to build a business for myself as well. So I just went through all the education that I possibly could, podcasts, books, you name it. I was obsessed with it.

 

Keith Weinhold  11:08  

Yeah, all right. Well, it's all about doing the right thing before you do things right, like we say here on the show. All right. So it sounds like you were confident that you were doing the right thing. You were in real estate. Tell us about the start, especially buying that first property. What was that like?

 

Grant Francke  11:25  

 Yeah, it was nerve wracking, right? It was a small, up down duplex in Lincoln, Nebraska. It's really one of my only properties I've actually gotten that's been on the market on the MLS. Just got an agent went and bought it and it was a good deal, like it cash flowed. Well, I took it down. I was managing it myself, and I still do manage my portfolio myself. I do vividly remember, like sitting in the living room of that doing my showings, and I just did after three or four showings, I couldn't get it rented, and I was listening to one of your podcasts, and you were talking about the different ways that real estate pays you, besides the income, and that really kept me motivated. This is a long term journey. This isn't a short term get rich quick thing. You know, by getting a tenant in there, it might take a month, but then they're going to pay down your note, you're going to get the tax benefits, you're going to get all those different items Flowing into you from real estate. So I remember that vividly from that first deal is listening to Keith in the living room.

 

Keith Weinhold  12:16  

Yeah, being a profiteer in real estate, it's a little, maybe just a little like the iceberg analogy. Maybe only the top 20% of the iceberg is visible in what you see as profit. You're thinking about monthly income, and maybe you're thinking about appreciation. You don't see everything else below the iceberg that's underwater, I should say rather, like the inflation profiting on the debt and the loan amortization in the great basket of tax benefits, you sent me a paper letter earlier this year. One thing you wrote about is how the show influenced you, because you vividly remember sitting on the floor of your first ever vacant rental unit. So presumably it was in this Nebraska duplex, one of those units we're talking about here in this the show kept you motivated. You thought you were failing because you didn't get the unit rented after the first three showings, which I think we know now is sort of funny. That's really normal, even in a good rental market. You know, it could take more showings than three until you get the right match between a tenant that wants the unit and a tenant you'd accept. I mean, the tenant themselves, they have to accept all sorts of things. Uh, maybe they don't like the parking situation. Your unit layout has to be right. In my first ever property, which, as you know, was a four Plex, one problem I had is some tenants just didn't like the fact that the only bathroom in these four Plex units was upstairs. And then it's funny, as soon as you get the showing, say it's the sixth showing that you get it rented out, the problem's over. It's solved. You're back to 100% occupancy. And you wonder why you ever thought you had a problem. That's just sort of how that goes.

 

Grant Francke  13:43  

Yeah, hindsight is always 2020. It's really stressful in the moment, but just keeping in mind that the different ways it pays you the different avenues of income that come from it, and that's even something like it was conceptually, I understood it, but it really didn't take effect for me till it was like five, six years down the road, and you go, look at your loan balance, and you look at what the inflation's done, you're like, well, that's a substantial amount of money that you've made just passively getting your tenants to pay down your debt.

 

Keith Weinhold  14:09  

Yeah, some don't even think about the fact that your tenant is paying down your principal for you, an advantage that homeowners don't have, because homeowners, they just have $1 that goes from their cash pocket over to their equity pocket every month. But in your rental property, your tenant is doing that for you, and then inflation is, in almost all cases, paying down your loan silently, even faster than what that tenant is doing for you.

 

Grant Francke  14:31  

It's amazing concept. Once you can can, can wrap your head around it

 

Keith Weinhold  14:35  

all right, so you started with this duplex in your local area, Nebraska. Is there anything else to say about that first property, or is it more about the growth from there? That's more, yeah, it was

 

Grant Francke  14:46  

the growth from there. That one was just like I said, kind of a base hit, and then we started scaling up after that. So my next purchase was another duplex, and I happened to find it on Craigslist, back when that was a thing, that you could find properties on Craigslist, and it was actually a retired engineer, rare. Order that was selling a duplex. I was like, Oh, this is great. We hit it off really well. Had a great transaction. I closed on time. I did what I said I was going to do, and then I was looking around on the assessor's website, and he had five more single family houses that were clearly rentals. I told him at the closing table. I'm like, Hey, if you ever want to sell those rentals, just let me know. You know, I'd love to scale our portfolio up. He ended up offering to sell or finance me those five properties with a minimum down payment. Well, just because we had just a great relationship, I showed up, I did what I said I was going to do, we ended up getting seven properties from that guy.

 

Keith Weinhold  15:33  

 Wow, that is huge, a way to scale up fast. So just with your behavior, your work ethic, the fact that you did what you said you were gonna do, you know, that engendered some sort of interest in the other party to offer you, seller financing. What percent down did you put on that next batch of properties?

 

Grant Francke  15:50  

We did 10% down, great, and we had 5% interest on it, and we had a balloon payment due in, I think it was seven years so funny story about that. He sold all his rental properties. He was going to Florida to retire and just relax and and be a retired guy. He called me about two and a half years later. He's like, Hey, I still have the bug. I found a property I want to buy. Is there any way you could refinance the seller financing and close out my notes so I can use that capital to buy something? I was like, Yeah, Larry, I get it. Yeah. Let me see. I'll talk to the bank and see what I can do. But in those two years, I had done enough improvements in those properties and raised the rents, took care of them. When I went to refinance those five properties, I was able to pay two of them off, so I only had a loan on three and pay him back on the proceeds. So throughout that transaction, I pretty much had two properties free and clear, and then three houses on 30 year notes from Fannie and Freddie.

 

Keith Weinhold  16:44  

How did you come up for the down payments with all this? Was this something you were able to do with income from the job as a railroad conductor?

 

Grant Francke  16:52  

 Well, that refinance was more like a burr model, so I was able to do all that with the equity inside that property. So those five single families that are refinanced. Was just all the equity inside those properties. So I didn't have to put any more money out. It was just the equity that was able to pay off the other two. And then I had the three on the notes, from appreciation, from appreciation, and, yeah, forced appreciation. So I was fixing up the units, raising the rents, you know, changing out flooring, redoing bathrooms, doing all that myself while I was still at my w2 job.

 

Keith Weinhold  17:21  

Okay, really getting hands on, because you do have this bent of sort of a GC or a handyman, something that I personally didn't have, maybe this would have accelerated my wealth building faster had I done that. You're realizing that a source, you know, it doesn't have to be your own money from your own job. When you've got leverage, and you had 10 to one leverage on these, I believe it was what five single family homes that you had added seller financing that really multiplies you wealth substantially faster compound leverage, rather than compound interest. But a lot of people just let that equity die in their properties, rather than pulling it out a tax free event through a cash out refinance and moving it along.

 

Grant Francke  18:03  

Yep. So we kept that process on. We buy a duplex that was needs some repairs. Nothing like crazy rundown, but you fix it up over 6,12, months, you do a refinance, and you just keep that ball rolling. And it makes the whole process really easy.

 

Keith Weinhold  18:15  

I know that you are pretty open to discussing your assets, discussing your unit mix. So tell us about more of that expansion. What you brought it up to, and the exciting time when you've replaced your salary because you had enough income from the units.

 

Grant Francke  18:31  

Yeah, so we would just keep that snowball method going of refinancing those two paid off properties we had, we had a line of credit against those as well, if we needed that for a down payment, or if we wanted to pay cash for something, we could use that leverage, that money from the bank and buy the property, do the refinance at the end, and pay it all back. And, you know, be out of pocket with minimal cash out of pocket for us. We just kind of kept that process going. And then once we had about 30 units, I would say so, about three years. So I started buying in 16, and then in September of 2019 is when I resigned from BNSF Railway and went full time.

 

Keith Weinhold  19:06  

That's a great timeline. You mentioned some paid off properties there. And you know how I'm the proponent of leverage in good debt in all of them. But really you talked about despite the fact that you had, I think, two paid off properties, it sounds like single family homes. Early on, you were still able to leverage the fact that they were paid off as collateral for getting more loans. So you are still using those as other people's money despite the fact that they were paid off.

 

Grant Francke  19:31  

Absolutely we still use it to this day. That's if we need a down payment, if we need a chunk of cash. That's where we go to is grab those from that line of credit.

 

Keith Weinhold  19:39  

Talk to us more about sort of the sourcing of the financing. There were you getting together with some local banks in order to get good terms where you can collateralize some of your existing portfolios assets? 

 

Grant Francke  19:52  

So we used to use a small community bank here in Nebraska. I started with them, probably 2018 and I've been with them since you just create a really good relation. With them. They trust me. They know what I'm doing. They know if I bring them a deal like I'm not hiding anything, I'm not showing them certain numbers, it looks better like they trust what I'm doing. I trust that they're going to take care of me as well. It's always good to have a few in their back pocket. But if you have a really good relationship with one small community bank, it can take you pretty far.

 

Keith Weinhold1  20:18  

Tell us about how you built that relationship with the community bank. I think a lot of people hear about how to do that. This doesn't mean going bowling with a banker and having to be your buddy for watching the NFL on the weekend. So I guess, how do you demonstrate that you're a capable business person to a local bank in order to get good treatment?

 

Grant Francke  20:37  

That's a great question. So my first couple deals, I created a full deal pitch deck sheet that I brought in in a laminated folder of pictures, timelines, my past history of what I've done. So I started off on the right foot of showing them that I was very professional. And then the same thing, like with Larry, with the seller finance properties, I showed up. I did what I said I was going to do. I didn't close late. I always was on time. I was on time for my meetings. I was on time for my closings, just staying top of mind with them too. So if I didn't have a deal going on, I'd stop in when I was depositing some laundry change and just chat with my banker or chat with the check guy, and just make sure I stay top of mind with them.

 

Keith Weinhold  21:14  

Yeah, it's a little bit like how people classically think about as interviewing for a job. It sort of sounds like you took a page out of that book, and you're sort of interviewing for a loan, if you will, tell us about your portfolio size now, and kind of what that asset mix is like.

 

Grant Francke  21:30  

yeah, so we're up to about 120 units now, all in the Lincoln Nebraska area, all multi family, small, multi family. We saw those single family houses we hold on to. But otherwise it ranges from duplexes, four plexes, some six, eight units are mixed in there as well. So we're still just buying, like, just boring cash flowing deals. That's one thing I always say is, like, I just buy boring real estate. I don't want anything super stressful or super crazy, like, I'm not infilling to build ADUs. I'm just buying boring cash flowing rental properties.

 

Keith Weinhold  22:02  

It really can be pretty boring. Real estate is really slow moving. Yeah, it's almost like the more boring the area of the nation that you invest in, the more likely that it's not a trendy place. And, you know, people are wearing Carhartt rather than Lulu Lemon. It's almost like that's an indicator of what a good market is we're talking with Grant Francke. He's a GRE listener. He's telling us how he built his portfolio from being a railroad conductor to going ahead and doing this on the side and leaving his day job. When we come back, we're going to talk about, was he nervous and like just what level did he have to get to before he had the confidence to quit his job and replace his salary. You're listening. To get rich, education more. We come back. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold.

 

Keith Weinhold  22:02  

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Caeli Ridge  24:35  

this is Ridge lending group's president, Caeli Ridge listen To get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and remember, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  24:55  

Welcome back to get rich education. It's one of my favorite types of episodes because we're talking about a GRE listener, much like you, with what you can do, where he started, what the architecture of his portfolio building was, and a big part of that is you don't really want to be debt free in real estate. You want to be financially free. You want to build enough income in order to replace the income from your day job. I want to talk about that part grant replacing your salary. That sounds really good in concept, we know that's what you need to do. When I personally was at that point, I still remember how scared I was to walk out from my cubicle where I was employed at a State Department of Transportation and walk across the hall and tell my boss's boss, Therese, that I'm giving my two weeks notice. I've got to admit, I was still scared. My heart's still racing a little bit just bringing it up and talking about it. So why don't you tell us about at what point you replaced your salary?

 

Grant Francke  25:55  

My wife's an accountant. She's really good at like, Excel spreadsheets, so we made an Excel spreadsheet that factored in the tax benefits of real estate that I would get as a full time real estate investor. What my income was. I went to the lowest paying job at the railroad just to see if we could live off of that paycheck. So once we hit that cash flow number, which was, it wasn't a great big number, it was like 4800 a month or something, once we hit that number, she said, All right, I think we can do it. We're good to go. So I went in, and I only had one of my buddies at the railroad that knew I was going to resign that day. I was going to go in and resign, then clean out my locker. I got there, it was like, well, I'll just clean my locker out first and then make sure this is exactly what I want to do. I got my locker cleaned out. Everything was in my truck, and I walked in, and it was the most terrifying thing that I've ever done, you're walking away from a great union job with a heck of a pension that I've been there for at that time, 13 years, you know. So I had some seniority built up. I just went back to like my family again and thinking about all the times I'm going to spend with my kids, with my wife, the trips we'll be able to take, the memories we're going to be able to make, and the hard work that I put in those first three years of just grinding doing all the work myself, managing all the properties myself, that gave me that push. I was like, No, I can do this. These numbers make sense. The math adds up, and we're going to make it work. That's

 

Keith Weinhold  27:13  

great. And by the way, I also walked away from a union job with the pension guaranteed retirement benefits, and they were guaranteed in the state's constitution because I had a state government job, so that pension wasn't going to go away, and I just went ahead and walked away from all that. Yeah, it certainly is a scary thing. It takes a certain level of confidence in order to go ahead and quit your job. But here's what I think, Confidence comes on the person that you made yourself be to on the side, build this portfolio and become the type of person that can demonstrate to a local bank that you're credit worthy and that you're an ethical operator. That's sort of a skill set that you build, such that if something went wrong and you had to go get a job again, you just sort of have a skill set where you know you could get another job. That's the confidence to quit.

 

Grant Francke  28:05  

Yeah, once I had that confidence, built up and confidence in myself, you're kind of trained as even a man, just to not be proud, you know what I mean. But once I was proud of myself and what I built, it gave you that confidence, that I could walk in and say, No, I can do this on my own. I don't need this job. I'm done with it.

 

Keith Weinhold  28:20  

Right to not need an employer. So not only walking away from a union and pension benefits and a paycheck, you're also walking away from paid vacation days and paid holidays. But yeah, I mean, part of that confidence is like, I know that I can, you know, furnish this myself. I'm not dependent. I don't need someone else. And that's really that feeling of freedom. 

 

Grant Francke  28:42  

Yep, absolutely, it's a very freeing feeling. 

 

Keith Weinhold  28:45  

On this show, a lot of investors start out with single family homes and part of that scaling process, and I really help encourage, hey, the rate of return from home equity is always zero on doing a cash out refinance, or a 1031 exchange, and at some point, say, maybe your single family homes, you probably have a few that are less desirable than others. Maybe you have a few single family homes in your rental portfolio that have higher interest rates. You just have a few where you just can't seem to keep them occupied very long. They're the ones that are ripe for doing a 1031 exchange or a cash out refinance. Why don't you talk more about sort of those next sets of properties where you might relinquish a couple single family homes and get into some of those properties, a four Plex, a six Plex, an eight Plex, a 10 Plex, and just sort of some of the differences in managing, since you're still self managing, is that right? 

 

Grant Francke  29:37  

Yeah, we just actually completed our first 1031 exchange about two months ago. Great. Oh, yeah. So we actually sold two duplexes. So we sold four units and bought 17 in the 1031 exchange. The cash flow is going to be as we buy them right now. We're getting a little bit better cash flow. But you know, the ability to scale that and the management side, for me is much easier. If I would rather manage 117 unit than 17 single families, spread out all the way around. I only have one lawn to work worry about, totally on one roof. I have one sewer system to worry about. It seems scary in the beginning, but now that why I'm at where I'm at, I would much rather take down a 10 Plex than 10 single family houses.

 

Keith Weinhold  30:19  

100%. oftentimes single family homes, you know, they tend to be scattered. They're probably not all going to be in the same development that introduces management difficulties. Of course, I circumvent that because I totally use professional management for all of my properties. So that's really not problem or a hold up for me, where it sure would be with you. Yeah, there really is that mental leap. I've owned a few properties that have been 10 plexes or in that area, and there are just things to do with there that we know we don't need to deal with in single family homes or duplexes, there might be one central communal laundry room that you have to manage. And you know, how are you going to keep that clean? I had one particular eight Plex building while the kids just had their bicycles parked here and there in the front yard, and it looked junky. And my property manager built a screen, just like a fence, where you had to keep your bicycles behind there, and that really increased the curb appeal of the place. If that's a single family home, you don't really care so much about that grant. I once had an 11 unit building. It had four units on the top floor, four units on the middle floor and three units on the bottom floor. There was a laundry room where the fourth would have been. So we had 11 families live there, and there were about 14 parking spots for this 11 Plex building. And figuring out who was going to park where was a real mess. Some people had more than one car. Some people had seniority, so they felt like they should have gotten some of the spots we had the building next door where people tried to park at our 14 spots. That was such a mess. I told my property manager to you, go figure it out. You go assign the spot. So my point is, there are a whole bunch of dynamics when you kind of get into this 10 or so unit area that you just don't have with rental, single family homes.

 

Grant Francke  31:58  

Absolutely. Yeah, I've had to have many conversations with people telling them I manage properties, not parking. I don't just figure it out be adults. I don't want to hear about your parking dilemmas, which I get too. You know, you also have, you have noise complaints, and you want to make sure everybody's being respectful of their neighbors when you get into those bigger buildings. So there are definitely pros and cons. But boy, if I, if I could have a 10 single families on the same street, that would be, you know, ideal management wise, that would be a lot easier, but it's just tough to get everything together.

 

Keith Weinhold  32:24  

Is there any other guidance you can give with scaling up? Because a lot of people just continue to let so much equity accumulate in any one property, and they're not scaling up, you're sort of leaving some meat on the bone. There any other strategic things one can think through?

 

Grant Francke  32:38  

Just take advantage of your cash out refinances when you can, I'm a proponent of leverage, but not over leveraged to where your negative cash flow on it, if you can cash out, refinance, pull your equity out, and still be making some money off of it, that's really going to allow you to scale over time, a lot larger than just holding that one duplex and waiting for it to give you that cash flow, that financial freedom. You really got to take that equity out, spread it out over multiple properties, and then watch them all scale up at the same time.

 

Keith Weinhold  33:05  

There's probably less risk when one does that. People are averse to making that move because they think about how they're taking on more debt. But the more you cash out and scatter it into more properties, you've got more diversification geographically, if you want to. And really, I think the mindset that helps people with this is, when you do a cash out refinance, you didn't lose any equity. You really transferred some of your equity.

 

Grant Francke  33:30  

yep, tax free too, which is something you harp on, like it's tax free money. You get to walk away and not pay taxes on it. 

 

Keith Weinhold  33:38  

It's really amazing. All right, well, so you have a substantial portfolio of about 120 units in is it all in and around Lincoln Nebraska?

 

Grant Francke  33:47  

Yep, Lincoln Nebraska and a couple small communities around there, some more college type towns that have industries in them as well. But all the Lincoln Nebraska area.

 

Keith Weinhold 33:55  

we don't talk about Lincoln Nebraska here on the show very often. What kind of personality does the market have? Whether that's, you know, like you mentioned, is there a preponderance of student housing? Are there particular economic sectors that really help float and drive that market? Tell us about Lincoln as a real estate investment market.

 

Grant Francke  34:13  

Like I said, with boring real estate, it's a great boring real estate town. We've got a couple universities in Lincoln. It's a big ag area, obviously, so surrounded by the the ag industry. But it's also got some great tech jobs that are coming in. It's just a very steady it doesn't have a lot of the ups and downs. You know, 2008 was obviously tough with everybody, but there wasn't this massive housing correction here. We're just kind of slow and steady, which is that's kind of my pace.

 

Keith Weinhold  34:39  

typical of what I call a stable market, where, conversely, you tend to have the volatile markets that are on the coast. I'm going to imagine in 2008 it didn't go down in value nearly as much as markets, but in the big housing price run up in 2021, I'm going to guess you got some really nice appreciation, but probably not as much as a lot of the other markets as well.

 

Grant Francke  34:58  

Yeah. Absolutely that depreciation, then that inflation run up, was pretty substantial. But, yeah, it's just a really boring real estate market that just steady. There's some great rentals. There's a lot of people that move into, move into town, from Lincoln, from outside, that go to school or start out here, and then they go somewhere else. So it's great town.

 

Keith Weinhold  35:16  

What about some other things in the character of the market? What are property taxes, like one or 1.2% per year based on the value of the property. That's about a national average. How does Lincoln look that way?

 

Grant Francke  35:29  

Yeah, it's a little bit higher. Right now, there's been some fighting in our legislature about how they're trying to fix that, because we have a really fairly good budget in Nebraska tax wise. So they're fighting to get us some relief now, but it's a little bit, I guess, like 1.3 or 1.4 right now in Nebraska.

 

Keith Weinhold  35:43  

a little higher than the national average. But really, the more important metric, one I talk about a lot, because it's so simple, is approximately, let's say, for a rental, single family home, is what is the ratio of the rent income per month to the purchase price?

 

Grant Francke  36:00  

Yeah, it's tough to find those 1% deals anymore. Those are tougher to come by. I think if you're buying a single family right now, you're probably going to be, at that .75% of the income to the property. If you get into multifamily. We're still finding deals that are decent around that 1%

 

Keith Weinhold  36:15  

so with the 710, of 1% rent to price ratio as an example, on a $200,000 purchase price property, that would be a rent of $1,400 so you can find something like

 

Grant Francke  36:28  

that. It sounds like that's usually about, yeah, for single family, I think that's what we're seeing. But like I said, multi family, we're getting pretty close to that 1% still with with some added rent.

 

Keith Weinhold  36:37  

Do you think about branching into other markets? Like a lot of our investors do, not everyone lives in an investor advantage market like Lincoln, but even those that do say, if they live in a Columbus, Ohio or in Indianapolis, Indiana, they might want to add a couple markets for diversification, maybe Metro in Alabama and another one in Florida. Do you plan to continue to grow right there, since you have these great local relationships with local banks.

 

Grant Francke  37:03  

 I mean, it'd be tough. There is a couple of markets we've looked at, like San Antonio, I really like that one. And then Louisville, Kentucky. I've been there a few times, and it's just a great town. And I think there's some really good industry down there too. So those are the two that would be on my list. I haven't taken a massive action on getting down there yet, but if I were, that's probably be where I go.

 

Keith Weinhold  37:21  

Of course, San Antonio is going to have those higher property taxes, but I just visited San Antonio last month. They really look to be the beneficiary of this near shoring movement, with more companies relocating to Mexico, this is great. We talked about how you grew your portfolio. Are there any other strategies overall that you employ any mindsets that you make actionable, either that you learned about on this show, or just anything else that you do in there grant your keys to success, your formula.

 

Grant Francke  37:49  

The big thing for me is like, my why? Like, why did I do this? And why was I doing it that was huge for me in the beginning, and my, why was my wife and kids like? I wanted to spend more time with them. So when you know your why, like, all these tough things that happen, because, like, you know pipes are going to break, tenants are going to be tenants, and things are going to go wrong. So if you know your why and why you're doing that, it makes it so much more easy to get through those difficult times. So it's really a mindset thing, which is kind of odd thing to say, but it's a mindset thing, because things are gonna go wrong, so you gotta have a strong why behind you.

 

Keith Weinhold  38:22  

Did you write down your why?

 

Grant Francke  38:24  

I did? Yes, I'm big in goal setting as well, so I write goals and like, every year and then quarterly as well. So writing down my why and knowing that, it helped me when I was working on those properties and driving back and forth, listening to get rich education, just knowing why I was doing this, it made it a lot easier.

 

Keith Weinhold  38:42  

Yeah, there's something about writing it down. I've even learned that using blue ink on yellow paper, somehow there is something about doing that in particular that really helps create this imprint in your mind. But however you do it, yeah, writing it down is so important, and that way this goal doesn't become a morphous or malleable when you do that.

 

Grant Francke  39:03  

yeah, it sets it in stone. You can look at it. It's actually physically there. It's not something just conjestually in your head. It's actually something that's taken place.

 

Keith Weinhold  39:10  

You have had such success. Gosh, congratulations on that, such that you even created a resource. But before I ask you about that, is there just any last thing that you'd like to talk about in your journey overall, whether that's goal setting and having a good why, or any GRE concepts, or just really anything else that's led to your success, to have 120 units.

 

Grant Francke  39:32  

it really goes back to, like I said, my why, and then the education. So I do want to thank you again, like, for all the podcasts and and all the information you put out. It was uh very, impactful on me as I was learning the reason that why GRE always spoke well to me is like you would talk about conjectural things, about real estate and cash flow and all this, but it was also the larger economic process of how things worked, how things mixed together. So having that in my brain too and in my back pocket really gave. Me the confidence to attack these things when inflation started happening. I'm like, Oh, that was nothing I ever thought about. But I've heard you talk about it for hours and hours on the end. So I'm like, I understand how this works now, and I know how I'm positioned. I can use it to my advantage as well. So a lot of those things helped me out scaling up and just taking all those resources that we got from the show.

 

Keith Weinhold  40:17  

Yeah, we're actually beneficiaries of inflation here, which is certainly pretty counter cultural. With your success, you put together a resource, and I definitely want you to share it with our audience, because this is something I really think they can benefit from, because they can relate to your story. I'm pretty confident.

 

Grant Francke  40:35  

appreciate it. Yeah, so I wrote a book. It's called the unlikely investor. It's available on Amazon, but it's just a book that I took, kind of my story from a w2 employee to scaling up to where I am. Now, some of those tips and tricks in there. I have maybe plagiarized some stuff from Keith's podcast, and we talked about some the different pillars of wealth that you get from real estate. But it really just kind of goes into the mindset part too, of finding your why, goal setting, and then the basics of real estate investing on up through scaling up to a decent sized portfolio.

 

Keith Weinhold  41:07  

Oh, I know, in every instance you credited me in the book.

 

Grant Francke  41:11  

I do. I did, yeah.

 

Keith Weinhold  41:13  

I really don't care. It's more about, you know, people getting the information, rather than me getting any credit for that. That's great. And you know the name The unlikely investor? When I learned that that was a title of your book, for a moment, that threw me off. I'm like, I wonder what that means. But you know what? No, I think I know what that means. You can tell me, but I'm an unlikely investor. I went to college for geography and regional planning. That was my double major. I thought I'd be a geography teacher. It's just really unlikely that I got into real estate, I didn't have this bent in me anywhere within academia. So why do you call it the unlikely investor?

 

Grant Francke  41:49  

That same story, you know, I had a great w2 job, I had a great union, a great pension. There's really no reason that I had to go out and do this. It's very unlikely. You know, if you look at the numbers of our peers that actually do what we've done. It's extremely unlikely that we did it, so it was a great call to action of like, No, you can do this. It may seem unlikely, but it's possible.

 

Keith Weinhold  42:09  

Oh, well, I think that title is 100% appropriate. That was good to talk with you more, and I really want to thank you for coming onto the show, because you're going to help out a lot of people with your story and you the listener. If you find it relatable, check out. Grant's new book just published this year. It's called The Unlikely Investor Grant Francke, it's been great having you here on GRE 

 

Grant Francke  42:33  

appreciate it. Keith, it's an honor.

 

Keith Weinhold  42:40  

Grant mentioned the tax breaks when you leave your job quickly, so as not to gloss over that when you're at the point where you're getting close to leaving your job, if that's even a goal of yours, some people want to get in real estate just for some additional income. But like he said, it was at a point where he and his family needed just $4,800 of rent income per month. That was back a few years ago there, and your number will almost surely be higher than that with the inflation that we've had. But you know, figure that in once you quit your job, you're probably going to identify for what's known as the real estate professional designation, as outlined by the IRS, what that is, is the status that gives you some really nice tax breaks. And one way in which you qualify is that real estate needs to be your principal activity, meaning you expand more of your time per week in real estate than you do any other discipline. Now, I'm not a CPA, but frequent guests here, Tom wheelwright and I, we have discussed the real estate professional designation on a prior episode, and every year, there's a form that I quickly fill out myself confirming my ongoing real estate professional designation. Now you're probably not going to be able to qualify for that when you still have a day job, because that's going to be your principal activity, where you spend most of your time each week, and also before you do quit your job, if that's a goal of yours, well, it is a good time to first qualify for loans Fannie and Freddie like the steadiness of a w2 income. So qualify for your last few loans before quitting. There might even be a seasoning period in there as well. Now, when it comes to today's guest grant, when he reached out to the show here, you know there's something about his approach that engenders this willingness to want to collaborate with him. I think I shared with you before that we get 50 times as many requests to be a guest on the show as we have available slots, but Grant, I guess, exudes this professionalism while being humble, and it just makes you want to see him win, and yeah, no wonder his local banks want to make him loans. I gave a formal written endorsement of Grant's new book earlier this year the. Forwarders, written by Brandon Turner, the book titled The unlikely investor. I mean, I might be an even less likely real estate investor than Grant because he's somewhat handy. That's a skill a handle. He's got that I don't have. I am a writer and well then somehow became, I guess, an unlikely podcaster or two in the book. He also writes that if you're unhappy in real estate investing, it means that your system is broken. So if you're seeking an approachable, relatable book, one where you can really, like, put yourself in the author's shoes and tell yourself, you know I can do that and I can be that. Well, then check out grant Frankie's book called The Unlikely Investor. More great shows coming up for you every Monday here. I'm grateful for your listenership. I'm your host. Keith whitehold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 2  46:03  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively,

 

Keith Weinhold  46:23  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building. Get rich education.com

 

 

Keith discusses the paradox of falling home prices and rents in Austin, Texas, despite it being the fastest-growing city. He highlights the over-supply of apartments, with new towers next to old bungalows, and notes that apartment rents are down, while single-family home rents are up.

He also explores societal attitudes towards wealth, noting the double standard of admiring celebrities while vilifying entrepreneurs like Jeff Bezos.

The over-supply of apartments has slowed down rent growth, affecting single-family home rents.

Wage growth has outpaced inflation, potentially boosting rents.

Millennials are increasingly renting due to the inability to afford homes. 

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Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

Keith Weinhold  0:01  

Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, I just walked one of America's most interesting real estate streets. I'll tell you what I saw then what it takes to get rents to increase in the US more real estate investing content, then it's about jealousy and envy. Why we hate Amazon founder Jeff Bezos for his wealth, yet love performers like LeBron James and Taylor Swift for theirs. It's a case study on wealth, entrepreneurship and celebrity today on get rich education.

 

Speaker 1  0:39  

Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit getricheducation.com.

 

Corey Coates  1:25  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.

 

Keith Weinhold  1:41  

Welcome to GRE from sinking spring Pennsylvania to Manitou Springs, Colorado and across 488 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are inside episode 530 of the GRE podcast. What's the minimum wage? I don't even know. Around here, we don't talk about how to live below your means, but grow your means, and you're gonna learn how to earn maximum wage. Austin, Texas is the fastest growing city in America. I've got some really interesting real estate observations for you, since I walked it two weeks ago and well, touring the Texas State Capitol Building was cool. And then on Austin's Sixth Street, I hadn't seen that much beer pong since college, but you know, rainy street, R A, I N, E Y, just south of the downtown, near the river, that was Austin's interesting Real Estate Street, the fastest growing city in the United States has falling home prices and falling rents. What a paradox that is in the fastest growing city. I mean, how do you balance that weirdness? Yes, the census tells us that Austin is the fastest growing and even as a gentrified hipster Haven with murals on the walls, street corners, there food trucks, coffee shops. You know the coffee shops that make you feel like you're in an indie film. It doesn't matter. They simply built too much there in Austin. So all of that that cannot compete with classic supply versus demand dynamics, old fashioned Milton Friedman stuff. And really, what I saw in both San Antonio and Austin is emblematic of the new apartment supply surge. What's going on on rainy street? I mean, that's what I call America's apartment over supply ground zero. Cranes are in the air all over the place. They're building 500 foot apartment towers right across the street from one story bungalows there on Rainey Street. It's a weird scene. Well, the apartments, they're going to be vacant for a while, and part of the weird scene is that there are outdoor live country music acts on the east side of rainy street, and they're playing out of these old one story bungalows converted to bars. It just feels like they're going to be raised and knocked over anytime and then country music, that's something that you associate with, like cows grazing within a mile of you. But that is not going on here, so these huge, new, shiny glass and steel apartment towers are right across the street from it. So it's this weird cultural mix of both country flare and urbanism in Austin and now there were also some clubs with DJs playing. There something more modern. I mean, like 20 year old R and B songs that everyone knows the words to by artists like Usher and Akon. Remember. Or a con or Ja Rule. Remember Ja Rule? Maybe they were playing Jay Z and ice cube too. But, you know, maybe shabu Z would have made more sense on that scene. In any case, it is an unusual scenario there in Austin. So a lively place, a growing place, but apartment buildings got out ahead of the growth. And yes, it all comes back to supply versus demand. Yep, that age old rivalry between what we've got and what we want now broadly, America has an overall lack of housing supply and the under building that is the most prevalent in northern states. And of course, under building, what that does is it increases the number of buyer bids on the few available properties. Well, in turn, that pushes up their home prices faster than the rest of the nation. Now the states with the most appreciation, they generally have the least new housing inventory being built. And of course, conversely, states with the highest available housing supply have the slowest home price appreciation. Austin is ground zero for that. So with the eclectic rainy street there, it's really representative of how you have some cities that are over built with apartments. You have a lot of apartment completions, but not very many new starts of apartments like I mentioned before. No, in fact, let's zoom out nationally. Here. Apartment list tells us that apartment rents are really flat. In fact, they're down seven tenths of 1% over the past year, available single family homes? Well, they're in more scarce supply than apartments, and the CoreLogic single family rent index tells us that their rents are up 2% annually. All right, something that completely makes sense for a change. The overbuild of apartments has slowed down their rent growth even more. But here's the thing, the overbuilding of apartments that's actually slowed down the rent growth in single family homes somewhat. And you might think that those two things aren't related, apartment rents and single family rents, but they're a little related. Just say a tenant they might ideally want a single family home, but there just aren't many of them out there for rent nationally. So then if a good new apartment is substantially cheaper, well, some proportion are going to accept an apartment as an alternative, and that's one reason that single family rent growth is just a modest 2% rather than a more normal 4% or so that you might see as a historic average. But yeah, I mean, really, the story is all these apartment completions, where a lot of them are going to be vacant for a while in some cities now, long term, apartments are going to be fine. I'm totally confident of that the demographic demand for apartments is going to be there because our population is growing and because there aren't many new apartment starts. So really that means over the next couple years, apartment supply versus demand is going to come more back into balance, while we could keep having this ongoing deficiency, though over for the single family rental homes. Perhaps the best thing that you and I can have happen to increase real estate profitability is to get rents up. So let's take a look at that. Let's look at the prospects for getting rents up in, just say, the next year or two. And there is a real bright spot here for that, and that is the fact that wages have outpaced inflation every single month for almost two years now, yes, wages and incomes are up those higher wages and higher incomes can therefore afford higher rents. And like with a lot of things in economics, it moves slowly, and there is a lag effect. And this is, you know, it's really how it usually works when there is a wave of inflation. What happens is, first, inflation outpaces wage growth, and now that we've come down off the big inflation wave, we're in the era where it has flipped, and now wage growth outstrips inflation. Well, the most recent stats, they tell us that America now has 4.6% wage growth and just 2.6% CPI inflation growth. Now is wage growth higher than the real diminished purchasing power of the dollar, not just the stated CPI inflation, because you got to remember, CPI is only the level that the government is willing to admit to, but in a sense, who cares? Because look, as a real estate investor, while your principal and interest payment stays fixed every month and inflation can't touch it, we know that wage growth is up 4.6% and that's the part that really. Matters. So if that means that you can get a 4.6% rent growth in the near future, after some lag effects settle in, well that might increase the annual cash flow, the money you feel in your pocket, say, 7% or 9% annually. So this wage growth trend, it portends really well for rent growth, ultimately flowing through to your cash flow growth. So we know that home price appreciation is amazing and has been amazing for us, investors, leverage and all of that, but there expects to be more upward pressure on rents, and that is led by robust wage growth. That is really happening now, and workers are demanding the wage growth to cope with higher consumer prices. Now, when it comes to the prospect of more home price growth, let's listen in to Shark Tank shark Barbara Corcoran, she recently talked about what would make home price growth go ballistic, as she puts it. This was her on Fox Business Channel with Neil cabotto. It's about three minutes in length, and then I'll be back to comment.

 

Speaker 2  11:08  

Barbara Corcoran. Now the Corcoran Group founder, Shark Tank aficionado, much, much more brilliant read of real estate too, Barbara, great to have you. A lot I'm throwing at you, Barbara, and you always handle it, definitely. But first off, on the rate environment right now, between all these headlines and everything, rates have been backing up. And, you know, we just saw a 30 year fixed rate mortgage. It's up to 6.84% from 6.78% last week. That was before the market rate run up. So how do you view the environment right now for lending?

 

Speaker 3  11:43  

Well, I think what we're losing right now we desperately need is more first time buyers. Less than 24% of the people buying now are first time buyers at an all time low. So rates have been bouncing around a while. Now, 6 to 7% so people are confused. They don't have big expectations. They're no longer waiting for a tremendous rate drop. If that happens, got it would be incredible for the market. But in the last year, or pardon me, in the last month alone, we have sold three and a half percent more houses despite what's going on in the interest rates. But the first time buyers aren't much a piece of that.

 

Speaker 2  12:16  

You know, I notice as well us existing home sales, like you say, up 3.4% October. It's the first year over year gain I think we've seen in better part of three years. So what was going on there? Because that surprised me.

 

Speaker 3  12:30  

Well, it doesn't surprise me because there's more houses on the market, so there were 25% more choices for the buyer coming out into the market and looking and on top of that, the buyers themselves have gotten accustomed to the rates being what they are, and they just got tired of waiting. But I am wondering if we'll ever see a 5% number, because anything with the 5% in front of it is going to make this market go ballistic. But right now, you're already seeing the signs. In the last month.

 

Speaker 2  12:59  

You know, you've reminded me in the past that sometimes it's psychological. A lot of folks, and a lot of them look at that 7% handle on a fixed rate mortgage get close to or over that it could tax this recovery or whatever you want to recourse call it. But what do you say.

 

Speaker 3  13:13  

well if it went higher? Of course, it would slow down the whole market. Would slow down the whole economy. It would slow down all the support services for the housing market, it would be a terrible thing, but I don't think people are thinking it's going to go much up, if you really listen to the experts. That could happen. But I don't think you're going to see interest rates above 7% again. I'm hoping that it's going to go and hover around six, or even go lower.

 

Speaker 2  13:36  

All right. Well, you have a better track record a lot of those so called experts. I'm going to go with you, Barbara. But you know, the one thing that is out there, the worry is that Donald Trump, say what you will, of him, he has aggressive plans to spur the economy, you know, the tariff thing, the talk that, you know, he is going to pour a lot into tax cuts that could juice the economy so much so that some worry it's going to, you know, get prices going higher. We don't know for how long or how much, but that that that will be the inevitable consequence of what he's offering. Do you agree with that?

 

Speaker 3  14:06  

I do agree with that. I think inflation is on everybody's mind, and I think it's risky, so I think we're going to find out. I guess it's like a horse race. We'll see what happens.

 

Keith Weinhold  14:15  

Yeah, Barbara thinks mortgage rates in the fives. I guess under six then that would make the market go nuts and really push up prices. She reiterated how first time home buying is at an all time low, that proportion of the first time homebuyers are down, down, down, keeping those people as renters. So we've got the Trump bump and still an inflationary bump behind higher and higher real estate prices going into next year, most likely. But I mean, now you've really got to be selective and filter the kind of information that you listen to and put credence in what. We just had a presidential election a month ago, and people love to speculate about the future and what they think say tariffs are going to mean for inflation and then what that's going to do to interest rates. And you know, all that stuff is just notoriously difficult to predict. It is really tough. I mean, look, I've attended two prominent economic and real estate conferences the last few months, and there are some good insights at meetings like that. But here's the thing you've got to keep in mind, everyone has an opinion, and no one knows the future. George Bernard Shaw's got a great quote. He said, If all the economists were laid end to end, they would never reach a conclusion. So I mean, we're still going to talk inflation and interest rates here on the show, because their effect on your economic life is profound, but guessing about where they're going to go, especially interest rates, that is almost an exercise in futility. There are some things that we know will almost surely affect you. I mean, I'm talking about something like demographics that is more predictable, or the benefit of leverage, where, if you have too much equity in your properties, you can do something about that right now, and that way, what you do is you actually create your future, instead of guessing and speculating about what it might be. Or say you can create your future. You can learn about a program like you know when the opportunity Zone program came out a while ago, or a new tax incentive program for real estate investors. These are things you can do. You can sink your teeth into them with what you have right now, the resources, the toolkit that you have right now, and actually do something about and one thing that we do know is that increasingly, millennials cannot afford to buy a house, and you know, it just basically means that their future is poorer. They have to live with other people into their 30s. Instead of forming a family, they don't have kids. The marriage rate takes a hit. I mean, these numbers have collapsed since the 1980s the home ownership rate among them has gone from about 50% down to 30% so millennials and Gen Z ers too, they know that their future is really shaky and it's concerning. So you have this same cohort, people in their 30s doing two jobs, taking on three jobs, some of them balancing four jobs. They don't want to do that. They don't want to work 12 hour days, six days a week, while they're trying to pay down their college loans. They're doing it because they have to. They can't form a down payment for a home. The average millennial is 3637 years old. And their parents, and my parents, they're all baby boomers. And, you know, they Baby Boomers were the richest generation that we've ever seen. So what we've got going on here now is the first generation that will not be as rich as their parents, and that's really strange. We're all used to this sort of human progress. I mean, if your parents were middle class people, and you're less well off than them, or your tenant is well, then what does that mean? Well, it means that you're gonna be renting for a while. See this demographic stuff. This is really happening. There is no speculation here, and it's why I want you to set up your investor life to provide rental property to others. It's a smart place to be positioned. In fact, a lot of media agrees. Yahoo Finance just published an article titled, rental home investors are poised to benefit. It basically details why rental properties are going to be next year's attractive option for would be home buyers. This month, analysts at Raymond James and Associates, they say that they see mortgage rates remaining higher for longer given the outcome of the election, again, no one can really predict mortgage rates. But anyway, they reiterated their outperform ratings. That's the rating that they gave it out perform on these two companies, American homes for rent and invitation homes. And they're these institutional homebuyers, they do the build to rent space, and they noted Raymond James that is noted that we are increasingly confident in the longer term outlook for single family rental fundamentals and the industry's growth prospects. That's the end of their quote. So that's what the analysts of financial planning firm. Raymond James and Associates, had to say. And suffice to say, there is a lot of positive momentum for rental property, especially in the single family space coming up next. Why we hate Jeff Bezos for his wealth, but love performers like Harry Styles, Rihanna, Taylor Swift, Dua Lipa and Olivia Rodrigo, despite their wealth. 

 

Hey, check out all of our real estate investing resources at get rich education.com. It's the home per our podcast, this very show that you're listening to right now. Also videos, blogs, how to get our newsletter. Be sure you're doing that. Connections with our recommended real estate service providers, a way for you to contact us over there, and also how you can connect with our completely free, yes, truly free, real estate investment coaching, all of that and more. Is it get rich education.com. I'm Keith Weinhold. More next you're listening to get rich education. 

 

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Dolf Deroos  22:48  

this is the king of commercial real estate, Dolph de Roos. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  23:08  

Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, a Taylor Swift loving friend recently said the weirdest thing to me, I don't buy from Amazon. I hate Jeff Bezos. He doesn't need any more money. Yeah, that's what they said that struck me as so odd. Well, Taylor Swift is a billionaire with a B and a net worth of $1.6 billion and going up. And you know, we're doing this everywhere in society. Why do we vilify wealthy entrepreneurs like Bezos yet glorify wealthy actors and athletes and singers like Taylor Swift? Let's look into this, because I've actually got some answers for why so many people apply this double standard to wealthy celebrities and well known people. And I know I've mentioned to you before that Taylor Swift and I were actually born in the same hometown of Reading, Pennsylvania, West Reading, actually vilifying business people yet glorifying performers. That seems to transcend, you know, any of these celebrity personality or character flaws. So let's put all that stuff aside that's distracting, that devolves and gets us off topic. Let's just focus on the wealth part and the resentment of that wealth, because often it's not that people dislike Bezos for say, the decline of small retail though there is that for any of his personal traits, but specifically they hate his wealth, but by the way, yet they have an Amazon account. Well. As a society, we just love celebrities despite their wealth, if they're stage performers like Rihanna, Taylor Swift, Dua Lipa, Olivia Rodrigo, Harry Styles, LeBron James. I mean, we applaud Stephen Curry's three pointers and show a otani's home runs when Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Jalen Hurts got a $255 million contract extension. We loved it. Fans plastered their walls with his poster, but yet, at the same time, while people are doing that, society often disparages successful entrepreneurs and business owners for their wealth, like Bezos or Barbara Corcoran, who we heard from earlier, or Spanx founder, Sarah Blakely, so I analyze why society does this, so let's see what we can learn from it. And I should add, of course, that like with most anything, you can find some exceptions out there, some outliers. I mean, Warren Buffet's net worth is over 100 billion and yet seems like everyone wants to sit around a campfire and listen to his sage investing wisdom, and some athletes are despised, for sure. And then there's a guy like Ryan Reynolds who kind of spans both worlds and lives his best life in Hollywood and in business, but really our emotional divide. It begins with the primordial human senses of jealousy and envy. And, you know, there's a cartoon floating around out there, and the cartoon has just two frames. In the first frame, it shows a guy standing in front of the room with a crowd of people that he's speaking to, and he asks, Who hates the rich? And everyone in the crowd has their hand up raised high. Everyone hates the rich. And then the second frame of the cartoon shows the same scene, and the guy in the front of the room is saying, Now, who wants to be rich? And yeah, everyone's got their hand raised up again. So let's be realistic. Ask most people that resent the wealthy, all right, what income do you think you'd need to be to be considered rich yourself? Oh, maybe they would answer say, five times as much as I make it now. Oh, yeah. Well, I bet if right after that, you offered them a 5x pay raise for the same job, they would take it, but yet they resent the wealthy, even though 5x would make them wealthy. Now there's a component of optics here, too. You, with your own eyes, get to see Taylor Swift perform at a concert. Her work is visible. It's satisfying. You might be emotionally moved by that. And from all accounts, Taylor does put in a ton of work to perform that well, sing that well, and put in the physical endurance of these three plus hour concerts. That really is amazing. I don't denigrate her for owning a Dassault Falcon private jet like she does. I mean, I don't disparage any wealthy person for wealth alone. I think deep down in your heart, it's where a lot of people want to be. Robert Downey, Jr. He performs his we'll call it his magnum opus, on screen as Iron Man Tony Stark in Marvel movies, and he's been paid up to $600 million for that role across many movies, but yet, you know, we find that satisfying, which is weird. I mean, Taylor Swift, she is herself, but actors like Robert Downey Jr actually pretend to be someone else. So we praise an actor like Robert Downey Jr, and he's best known for pretending to be someone else, but yet we despise say, Apple's leader Tim Cook, for his wealth. Why in the heck would that be I mean, how do you justify that? Well, it's because Tim Cook's performances aren't visible. It's optics. You didn't get to see the process of how Bezos revolutionized Amazon's 24 hour delivery to your doorstep or drone delivery. What bezels is doing on a computer is not exactly a spectator sport. Okay, we don't get to see the work that Apple Steve Jobs did for our iPhone, or what Tim Cook does for our iPhone or iPad or MacBook. So therefore it's less satisfying because it wasn't visible. And yet, Tim Cook's highest endeavor, it's less glamorous than that of an actor. And yet Tim Cook completely acts like himself. For all ways I can tell, unlike an actor and Tim Cook, he really shapes the world that you and I live in today. I mean, he has definitely influenced your life more than some fictitious superhero has. There's also an element of imitation here, and this is really important, because look, you and I really for all intents and purposes, we cannot be like Taylor Swift or LeBron James. But you know what we can be a little like Jeff Bezos or Tim Cook, at some point in your life, you get real and you tell yourself that you cannot be like Lebron James. You cannot sprout to be six foot nine and be the all time leader in NBA point scored, you're not going to be like Taylor Swift. And had the highest grossing musical tour of all time with more than 7 million tickets sold. Now you couldn't sell any tickets to people that would want to see you sing. I sure couldn't. But see, you can be a successful entrepreneur. You just have to do, and when you have to do, and you know you could do those things. See, this means that you and I don't have any cop out. So sometimes we refute an entrepreneur success to try to let ourselves off the hook from actually doing you know, I think it's human nature to sort of protect our ego and tell ourselves, ah, I can't be like them. But that's false, because being wealthy is a choice, something I actually didn't believe when I was younger. If you wanted to you, yes, not some other listener, but you could have a successful business and perhaps even parlay your success into being a yacht owner, you could actually be that now, yacht owner, that's not some goal of mine. But see, instead of resenting a yacht owner, you can be inspired by that success. You don't have to launch a space company and fly people to Mars. You can do something here on earth. You can own a successful e commerce company, or rent out cars to people, or provide what people truly need and righteously serve a lot of people with housing. As a real estate investor, you can do all those things, even if it's just 1% of the level that Bezos does with E commerce, even if it's 1/10 of 1% see, you can get a piece of that. This is similar to how popular culture denigrates landlords and yet over sympathizes with tenants. Sometimes the tenant is right, but the landlord is often not some mega corporation. They're usually a mom and pop investor that took on risk and took out a mortgage loan to provide property for a complete stranger. Now let's say that you achieve what we'll call success, quote, unquote, success as a real estate entrepreneur, because you just added your 20th rental unit, right? You had 19, as soon as you go to 20, then is that the right level at which you're supposed to start being denigrated? But up to that point, it was okay. I mean, see, this can sound a little silly. In fact, just last week, at the New Orleans investment conference, I met a GRE listener and investor, Jenny from Indiana. She actually owns 19 rental units. They're mostly single family rentals. All right. Well, is it okay to own 19? But then she should start being resented once she adds her 20th property and serves that many people, that doesn't make any sense, and neither does resenting Bezos, I mean, he grew up in challenging conditions with a 17 year old mother and An alcoholic father. Bezos worked, innovated, took risks, raised money. His Guiding Light at Amazon has been an ethical three words, serve the customer. That's a good thing. He came from disadvantaged conditions to serve the customer. And the good news here is that you can do this too. You don't need to have a certain body type or an IQ. Serve the tenant, serve the market. I mean, I have seen successful entrepreneurs that are overweight, short, old, young, tall, female, male, even dyslexic, and they have all crushed it in business among the world's 8 billion people. You yourself see life in a way that no one else sees it. So at some point you learn that you really can't sing like Taylor Swift, or jump over a car like LeBron, or be as funny as. Meet bargatsi, but you can be you, and that's enough, but you have to do and, oh yeah, not give up every time things get tough, but nobody's stopping you. An entrepreneur is a crazy person who risks their own money for freedom, rather than exchanging their freedom for money, you took the leap critics stand on the sidelines when they're disparaged only because they're wealthy. It says more about the critic than it says about you, the successful entrepreneur and real estate investor. So instead, you can ask yourself the question, what is stopping me from creating my own version of that success? We misdirect our emotions when we vilify entrepreneurs and glorify stage performers merely based on what's more visible, more emotional and more imitative, rather than the Creator of the products and services that put real value in your life. So don't be ashamed of applying yourself and using your ingenuity in your strategy, in your careful risk taking for earning more income for yourself. We shouldn't disparage Bezos, LeBron, Taylor Swift or Dua Lipa for the wealth, because it is the same kind of success that we all wish that we could have. 

 

coming up in future weeks on the show here we're getting closer to the end of the year where I will reveal get rich education's home price appreciation forecast for next year right here on the show. And I'm gonna give you an exact percentage national home price appreciation number. You're gonna know what to expect. I've done that for you for a few years here now I think this is gonna be the fourth year in a row where I'm doing it. It's sort of becoming a tradition, but coming up before that here on the show, I've shared with you how you know it's usually going to take you five years or more to go from your day job to financial freedom through real estate investing, but we've had some nice appreciation the last few years, and some GRE listeners are doing it faster than five years pretty soon, here, I'm gonna have a conversation with the GRE listener that applied principles that he heard here on the show, and he quit his job for real estate in just three years, he's gonna be here with me and tell you how he did it. Thanks for listening.

 

Hey, go ahead andtell a friend about the show here, take a screenshot and post it on your social media. I really appreciate you sharing the GRE Podcast with your friends and others until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, Don't Quit Your Daydream.

 

Speaker 4  37:56  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.

 

Keith Weinhold  38:24  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.

Former NFL player, Broadway playwright, best-selling author and in-demand public speaker, Bo Eason, joins us to discuss the power of storytelling and achieving greatness. Bo emphasizes the importance of setting high standards, such as aiming to be the best, and seeking out mentors. He shares his upbringing, where his father instilled confidence by telling him he was the best, which influenced his success. Bo highlights the significance of personal, physical, and unapologetic storytelling to build trust and connect with others.

Adopt the mindset of striving to be the best, not just settling for mediocrity.

Make the Gold Medal the standard, not the end goal. 

Develop and share your personal, compelling story to build trust and attract opportunities.

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Complete episode transcript:

 

Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai 

 

Keith Weinhold  0:02  

Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, how do you become the best in the world at anything that you want to do in your life? Today's remarkable guest will tell you how so you can become the best version of yourself. He's become the best in more than one endeavor, including playing in the NFL. We'll also learn about the persuasive power of story and how you can find your very best personal story that you do have inside of you. It's a show rated PG for personal growth today on get rich education

 

Speaker 1  0:41  

since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com

 

Corey Coates  1:27  

You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. You Keith,

 

Keith Weinhold  1:43  

welcome to GRE from Europe's Iberian peninsula to New Iberia, Louisiana and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold. As always, I'm grateful to have you along this week. This is get rich education. Most investing is left brained, but most decision making for your investment, choice is right brain. If you don't know the difference, left brain is about the numbers. It's analytical and logical. So left brain people, they're good at math and critical thinking and language as well. If you're more right brained, then you are more creative and emotional, and you tend to be good at recognizing faces and the attribute of diplomacy that's right brained. And it's a right brained kind of episode. Today you're going to learn how to be a performer and be the best at whatever you want to be. I mean, the best, whether that's as a real estate investor, business person, apartment building syndicator, or a real estate agent that's trying to sell homes, it'll even help you become the best parent, child, best spouse, best at basketball, best at table tennis. And you know, you are part of a really well educated and influential audience that we have here. Maybe you're trying to be the best physician or politician or even social media influencer or the best church minister that you can be. And in fact, as it turns out, people that are trying to raise money end up consulting today's guest quite a bit. And as you'll see, this guest really can tell a story. You'll learn that he has achieved elite success, even best in the world, success in a number of different areas. He's had like, three or four successful people's lives, yet he's the same guy. He's sort of like, in a sense, President Elect Donald Trump. Love him or hate him. Trump found success in real estate and then in media, with his show The Apprentice and then as the 45th and 47th president. Well, those disciplines there for Trump, they're somewhat related. Well, today's guest became the best in areas that aren't even related to each other at all, which is even more amazing. So therefore, maybe today it's really more of an Arnold Schwarzenegger parallel. I mean, Schwarzenegger, he was first the successful bodybuilder, winning Mr. Olympia, then he went on to become a successful actor. He married into the Kennedy family, and he became the California governor. Well, before I introduce you to today's guest, well, we are a wealth building show here, and as we talk about being the best in something, you know, I really want to ask you a question, Are you content with being middle class? You know, despite the way that inflation has ravaged it us, middle class life isn't all that bad. In fact, it's pretty good in a lot of ways, from the iPhone to the luxury of having a gym membership. I mean, that's just middle class stuff. Sheesh. Life is so good that when it's time to reset a password, people treat that as some sort of existential crisis. And you know, this is the time of year that even the middle class indulge in, say, pretty elaborate Christmas decorations. In fact, I increasingly notice that it's more and more common to hire a Christmas decorating contractor to decorate your real estate for you. They'll get ladders and a lift truck to hang lights in your tallest trees. That's something that the middle class does. Here's a new one. There's at least one mainstream, I guess, paper products company that now makes toilet paper with perforations that are wavy instead of being straight across, because it's easier to tear that way. So I think that you could make the case that American middle class life really isn't too bad, but in your life, if you want to be all that you can be, or anywhere close, you're not going to settle for something that's just better than not too bad. You can want more, and you should want more because you're capable of more, if for nothing else create the type of value for the world so that you can have more free time for yourself. I expect to have a terrific time and learn some things here where I am today in New Orleans for the 50th anniversary of the New Orleans Investment Conference, we've got speakers and exhibits covering real estate investing, economics, a lot of gold investing material at this conference Bitcoin and even stocks. And of course, I invited you, the listener here the past couple months, to come to the conference and meet in real life. As this is about to kick off, I wonder if I will find someone to go running with me. I always go running along the Mississippi River. Here in New Orleans, there is a trail paralleling the river right here, close to the event site. Yeah, I think I'm recovered from a mild back injury by now. Gosh, it was so weird. I hurt my back at the gym last month. And here's the thing. Somehow I heard it while doing my warm up exercises, of all things, sheesh. In fact, this is a triumvirate of fitness paradoxes here in doing this. Number one, warm ups are activities that you do before you work out to prevent hurting yourself, but I hurt myself in the warm up. Secondly, I never seem to injure myself while running steep, rocky trails or skiing down slopes outdoors, but indoors where the floor is level, that's the place where I seem to get injured. And then thirdly, the gym is where you go to improve your fitness, not lose fitness. So yes, that is the triumvirate of paradoxes there. Well, our guest, you know, he really knows the power of story, and just listen to him. I bet he'll tell a better story than hurting my back at the gym. Let's meet him. 

 

Today, we have a guy with massive ambitions who I know is going to bring out the best in you during his lifetime, he's chased what it means to be world class, not just in one discipline, but in five different disciplines, and he's achieved a true level of greatness in all of them. He has played in the NFL for four seasons with Houston, then went on to become a San Francisco 49er, next, a super successful Broadway playwright, then an in demand public speaker, most recently, an eight time best selling author, and he has gone on to write screenplays for movie stars, so get ready to hear him talk about the one factor that's been the driving force behind his success in all of these disciplines. Hey, welcome to get rich education. Bo Eason.

 

Bo Eason  9:13  

Keith, thanks for having me.

 

Keith Weinhold  9:14  

Well, it's the first time that we have a former NFL player on the show, and Bo played the same position that my favorite football player of all time did, Ryan Dawkins, that is the safety position. But we're not here to discuss football so much as how you can build the architecture of success like Bo has and Bo your success is astounding, and our listeners hope that some of their virtual proximity to you rubs off on them today, I do too, and it's remarkable because you've reached the pinnacle of success in some of these disciplines that don't even seem to be related to each other at all. So what can you reveal here? Is there one common driver that led to them all?

 

Bo Eason  9:58  

Man, you know what? That's. A great question, going back the way my dad woke us up as kids. So I'm the youngest of six kids, so I grew up on a ranch, on a farm in northern California. My dad was a cattle rancher, and I four older sisters and a brother who's a year older than me, so every morning he woke up all six of us to go do our chores, you know, on this ranch at five in the morning, and he would wake us up by rubbing our backs. He pulled back the covers. He'd rub our backs really hard, like, not easy, not like gentle, like dads of today, like this was a cowboy, you know, with dirty hands and rough hands. And he would rub our back and he would whisper in our ear and tell us that we were the best. And so for the first 18 years of my life, every morning he'd come into me in my brother's room. He'd wake up my brother in the same way he woke me up by rubbing his back and whispering his ear, you're the best. Get up, you're the best. And after you hear that for 18 years, my brother went off to college. I went off to college. My sisters all went off to college. And I always think back to those eight first 18 years, because when I would come home and visit our parents. So my brother got drafted. He was the first round pick of the New England Patriots. He was the quarterback for the New England Patriots took them to their first Super Bowl. So that best term worked out for him. And then I was a second round pick for the Houston Oilers, and got to play with them for several years. And this term, I always thought back to it, like, Why was my dad saying that? Because when we were growing up, when we were playing Little League, and we're playing sports, when we were kids, we actually weren't the best. But he wouldn't say that we were like, I would strike out every time in Little League, I was so bad at baseball, and every time he would yell at me through the chain link fence that I was the best, and my teammates are like, You got to be kidding me, Bo What is your dad even saying You're the worst? And he's telling you you're the best for most of our lives, the first half of our lives, it was a source of embarrassment to me and my brother and I remember going on a date one time, a double date with my brother. In fact, I couldn't even drive my brother could, and we went on a this double date with the thomasini sisters. So we were going, and my dad walks out to the car with us, and we're like, What the heck is my What's dad doing? Why is he coming out to the car with us? He came out there to tell us that we were leaders and that we were the best before a date. And I'm like, Dad, go in the house, right? And then finally, you know me and my brother, we weren't recruited as football players coming out of high school. Not one person, not one college recruited us, but we had these dreams of being pro football players, and at that time, 350 colleges played college football, but no one wrote us a letter. No one recruited us. So my brother went to a junior college, and then he ended up, after that, got a scholarship to the University of Illinois, and then became a first round pick. Well, I went to a school called UC Davis in Northern California, which was division two football and no scholarships. So basically, no one was on scholarship. There. You just walked on and you played football for fun. Well, that's where I went. And then, you know, cut to four years later, my brother's a first round pick. I'm a second round pick, and we always looked back from that point on, deciding, like Dad always embarrassed us, friends in front of our dates, in front of everybody. But then at that point, 21, 22 years old, we looked back, we said, Man, you know what? We just kind of surrendered to, what he saw in us, and we were the best. We were the best at our positions, and the only reason we were is because we had somebody who saw our greatness and pretty much spoke it into existence. Now, when you grow up like that, Keith, you think you assume that every other kid has grown up like that too, right? But that wasn't true, right? We thought it was true. You know, it turns out that the other guys we were playing with, the other guys who are our teammates, they did not grow up like that. So I would say that that principle was huge for me and my brother, just somebody who saw something in us that we couldn't see for ourselves, and he did it up to a point where we began to see it for ourselves. He just was very patient. And, you know, I find myself doing this with my kids. I have three kids, and they're all going to be d1 athletes, two of them are already, wow. Yeah, and it's because that's how I woke him up, too, like so I know that's kind of a simple story, but it really set the foundation for us, and here's how it did, Keith, it told me what was expected of us, even when we weren't the best. He was expecting us to live into what he saw, and we did, and I found my kids to do the same, like I was looking at my kids, and I was like, Man, are they going to be athletes like me and my brother are at that level, because that was their dreams, right? But I didn't know if they had what it took. As I woke them up every morning, I could see them starting to live into their potential or live into their birthright. So I think to start off with Keith, that was a principle that is a mainstay. It taught me not only what was expected of me, but what I could set the standard for other people, and then they would live on into that standard, been able to do that. So those couple of things were huge in my upbringing.

 

Keith Weinhold  16:02  

Well, this is remarkable, and I think you're already giving the parents in our audience quite a few ideas. Bo, this phrase, you're the best kind of got indelibly baked into your being and who you are, your dad even chasing you around on a double date, reinforcing you're the best and you know, Bo, I think that a person can be simultaneously grateful for what they have yet at the same time strive for more, as often say here on the show and adopting an abundance mindset with wealth building. Don't live below your means, grow your means. Now, I was watching an NFL football game just this past weekend, and a commercial came on for the IBEW, the labor union, and Bo it struck me as so odd that a trainee at the IBEW smiled, and they were all gratified that they were part of the IBEW. And they said, this is like now I have my golden ticket to the middle class, which I mean, because being middle class isn't like altogether awful in the United States, but it just sounded like this was the be all and end all, and hey, now I have a guarantee of mediocrity in my life that struck me as so odd. I don't think their father was telling them you're the best like yours did.

 

Bo Eason  17:21  

No, they definitely did not. I'm always shook by that too, where people will sometimes come to me and they go, Bo, I want to push back on being the best. I just want to, you know, be kind of a good player, kind of medium wealth. And I'm like, Well, if you want to push back on me, you should take that up with Mother Nature, because if you just go back to the day that we were conceived, you know, if we want to have a little refresh of course on the day we were conceived, you were going to find out that there was the odds of us even being born were 300 million to one, and we were the champion of that first race that we entered right like 300 million to one odds, you're the champion, and yet here we are, you and me number one. You know, the gold medalists of those odds, and now we're supposed to be born into a world and be mediocre. I don't think Mother Nature set it out like that. I don't think that's how it happened. I think the standard is the gold medal, not the silver medal. You know, it's the gold medal. Now, some people win silver medals. If they lose the gold that's fine, that's great, but the gold medal is the thing. And I think the minute we lower ourselves from that. We're just trying to give ourselves a soft landing, I think, and then we don't ask enough of our potential, which is, if you're following Mother Nature, your potential is 300 million to one odds, and you already won that gold medal. So what are you doing? You know? What are you doing? So, as I progressed, Keith, so I went from football, I played in the lake for five years, and I didn't know what I was going to do, right? So I just started again. I just said, so instead of being the best safety in the world, because that was my first declaration, I just said, I want to be the best safety in the world. That's it. So I was able to achieve that. And then when football was over, I did the same thing for playwriting and performing. I just said, I don't care. I know I don't have any experience in this, but I'm going to declare right now, and I draw it up, that I'm going to be the best stage performer of my time. So that principle has worked every time, but I had to use the term the best. And I don't know why. I guess it was just locked in my brain. But here's the next thing, the next principle that I think is important for the audience. And this goes for wealth building. This goes for whatever you want to build, whether it's your family or, you know, an apartment complex. It doesn't matter we're building stuff. And here's what I did the second. All around I said, I want to be the best stage performer, the best playwright of my time. So I didn't know how to do that. So I moved to New York City because I knew everybody did plays there. They did Broadway, they did off Broadway. And I asked everybody in my class, who's the best at this this was in 1990 who is the best at this stage performance. And every kid in my class, and there were kids I was a little older because I was playing football, I said, Where is the best stage performer of our time? Who is it? And they all said, Al Pacino. And I said, Cool. Where is he? And they said, Well, I don't know where he is. He's on a movie set somewhere, or, you know, rehearsing for a theater show. And I said, I want to know him. I want to meet him, because only the best can tell me how to be the best. Only the best can tell me how to take his mantle of being the best stage performer. Wow, most people don't think that, or say that. You said Brian Dawkins, me too. I'm like, who's the best safety in the world? Let me go talk to that dude, because that dude knows what, like Ronnie. Lott, was that for me? Jack Tatum, Ronnie. Lott, those kind of guys I ended up playing with. Ronnie. Lott, you know you end up playing with these guys. You know the guys you're looking up to? Well, within a week of me asking these kids in my class, where is Al Pacino? I'm having dinner with Al Pacino, in New York City and I go, Dude, what do I do? What do I do? You tell me, I'll do it. And he goes, Okay, Bo, I'll draw it up for you. We'll draw it up. You know what that's going to take, but that's going to take you 15 years, and I go, perfect. That's my kind of timeline. I'm good like that, you know? And he goes, Okay, so he drew it up and I did what he said. He told me who to work with. Basically, he's telling me to put my butt on a stage. More than any other person can put their butt on a stage. So I go, I can control that, that I know how to control, because that's what I did. As far as training to be the best safety. I wasn't the best safety, but as the years went by, guess what? I passed up everybody who was ahead of me. You know, you're the top safety in the league. Well, same thing for being on Broadway, he told me what to do. I did exactly what he told me to do. And 15 years later, I am opening a play in New York City that I wrote that I'm the only guy in and I swear I was so nervous before opening night to run out and look Keith I had played against the biggest and baddest dudes on the planet. You know, I wasn't as scared as going out on a stage to face those dudes. I would rather face refrigerator Perry or Walter Payton than going out on a Broadway stage. And I went out on starting the play, I am having an out of body experience because I'm the only one. I'm talking to the audience. The New York critics are in the house. Everybody's in there. And I make eye contact with a guy right on the row. He's sitting right on the aisle. It's Al Pacino. I had seen him in 15 years. He told me what to do. I did what he said. He's in my play, I wrote, and I'm the only guy, Al Pacino, the best stage performer of all time, is sitting right there on the aisle. That's so cool. And he's nodding his head. He's like, Yeah, I'm doing you did it. And so a you have to have a declaration, and that declaration has to be the best. So the declaration of being the best safety, being the best playwright, being the best stage performer, those things actually come true because you have a declaration which you're living into existence instead of following some to do list, right? I did the same thing for playwriting. I did the same thing with Al Pacino, and that career really set me off because I performed that play 17 years. One play 17 years it immediately gets bought by Castle Rock pictures as a movie. Frank Darabont bought the play as a movie. And I don't know if you know who Frank Darabont is, but he's the guy who wrote and directed the Shawshank Redemption, The Green Mile Saving Private Ryan collateral. He's the guy who his team's TV show he created is The Walking Dead. So this dude was nominated for 12 Academy Awards for writing and directing. He bought my play to produce it for him, and so he hired me, who's never written a screenplay, to write the screenplay for him. This dude has been nominated for 12 Academy Awards for lighting, and he hires me. I go, Dude, don't hire me because I've never written a screenplay. I don't understand it. I don't get it. I'm not a great speller. In fact, I do. Don't even have a computer. And he goes, I don't care about that. I think you can tell the story. Yeah. And I go, okay, so he was hiring me basically based on my guts or my heart, and we did that. So he bought that. I wrote the screenplay for him. Then Leonardi DiCaprio and Toby McGuire come to the play. They come running backstage, they say, Bo, we want you to write a movie for us. And I go, You know what, you guys, I don't write movies. They go, we pay a lot of money for our screenwriters. We think you can do it. And I go, Yeah, based on that money, I think I can do it too. And so the crazy part about this whole thing is it all falls back to this ability to share myself, to tell a story, to tell a story that has physicality to it, that has heart to it, the ability to do that has really given me all these occupations. And then people came to me like business owners from Wall Street. They would come to the play like with their wife, because their wife wanted to go to the theater and they were watching my play. Well, they would come backstage, Keith, and they would say, Hey, man, I want you to bring this to my fortune 500 company. And I'm like, wait, what do you mean? What do you I don't this is a play. I don't take this to Fortune 500 companies. This play, you got to come to the theater. They go, No, we don't want to. I want our sales force. I want our leadership executives to learn to do what you do on stage. I was like, what? I couldn't believe it. Me and my wife, we're like, going, I don't understand what you read. They said it's the funniest thing, because typically, when you're on Broadway, the people who come backstage to see you, they shake your hand, or they get you autograph and they say, Wow, you're a terrific performer. Or what great writing. That's what they usually say, right? Not my play. They come backstage and they don't say, I'm great. This is what they say, Can you teach my people to do what you just did? Yeah, on stage, we're like, of course, because I was taught I could retrace my steps. And I can teach business people, leaders, doesn't matter the business coaches, whatever I can teach them to express themselves in front of other people, which then makes them wealthy, because in the end, I learned Keith that whoever tells the best story wins.

 

Keith Weinhold  27:33  

Yeah, I want to get to the power of story after the break before we do that when one knows that the best that word is out there for them, I think oftentimes they're stricken with fear. Fear is a great obstacle. How do you overcome the fear from listening to you? It seems to me that your mechanism for coping with fear and becoming the best is facing it, getting in there and getting the reps.

 

Speaker 2  28:00  

Yeah, 100% there's a great quote, the world was not created by great men, the world was created by a demanding situation where great men then rose. So we don't know our greatness until we're faced with a demanding situation. So if you're nine, you have no obstacles in your life, you're like, Wow, this is really fun. I'm living on a farm. There's pals, there's horses. What a nice life. And then Bo created his own problem. He created a declaration that said, I want to be the best safety in the world. Well, right then, right when I got creative. Now, Bo's life became a demanding situation where I had to grow strong and I had to eat right, I had to exercise, I had to run faster than anybody else. So I created all these demanding situations for my life. But that's the only way to reveal character. No NFL team is drafting anybody who doesn't have a characteristic that makes you a successful NFL player, and the only way to get those characteristics is to lose is to get your butt kicked, is to face your opposing players that's putting yourself in a demanding situation. So us, you know, as successful guys and successful gals, we kind of get satisfied and so that we forget to keep putting ourselves in demanding situations. That's where the fear comes in. Because once you're in a demanding situation, you get scared. You're like, oh, do I have what it takes to do this? And then you discover by going forward that you actually do. You do have what it takes, and fear is like a made up thing, and you start to realize that you're the creator of your own fear. So look, when I wrote the play in New York, I had never written anything in my life. Like I said, I couldn't spell good. I didn't have a computer, but here's what I did have. I had the ability, because I already did this in my life. I knew how to put myself in a demanding situation and then take a step forward. I knew how to do that based on my football career. I knew it so the principles of being the best safety in the world and being the best playwright in the world are the exact same principles. You have to have the declaration. It has to be at a standard that's way out of your comfort zone that puts you in that demanding situation. Then you have to start running the miles. Then you have to hire an expert coach that sees you clearly, and it is a critical thinker like can see you and go, Bo, stop that. Do that. Stop doing that. And do that just like a nutritionist. Hey, I want to live longer. I want to be there for my daughters when they walk down the aisle. Okay, then you better stop eating this and start eating that. You have to have these experts in your life to fulfill on your birthright of being the best. So now you just break your life down. I just broke my life down like five different times because I enter a new era, like screenplays. How am I going to write a screenplay? I don't know how. I don't understand, but here's what I do. Know how to do. I know how to work. I know how to be the best. Those principles are pretty much the same as safety and playwright. So the guy who buys my play to hire me as a screenplay writer is the greatest screenwriter in Hollywood. So he's the guy paying me, he's the guy coaching me, he's the guy looking over my shoulder going, Bo Don't say that. Say this, say less, do this. Those are just first three principles. We're talking about the best. The standard has to be sky high. Otherwise it's not going to be demanding. It's not going to require enough of your humanity to fulfill on yourself. So it's got to be there. Then you've got to take the time to run the miles to do this thing, and you cut your time in half, or less than a half, by having somebody who is an expert mentor or an expert coach. A guy like Al Pacino, a guy like Frank Darabont who just goes, Bo do this. Don't do that. A guy like Ronnie Lott, both don't do that, do this. And I just do what they say, because, guess what, they're the best in the world at what they do. You guys, those principles, I found I just keep repeating them over and over again. Now a lot of you might be saying, Bo, that's a little much for me, because I don't know Al Pacino or I don't know Ronnie Lott, and I don't know Frank darabonda. You guys, I didn't know him either. I didn't know him either, but I do know this the best in their field, whoever that is, don't say you want to be the wealthiest person on the planet. Well, the wealthiest person on the planet is more available than you think. Guess why? Because everyone thinks they're too busy and they don't ask of their time. You ask of their time. No one's asking of Al Pacino's time. Guess why? Because they don't want what he has. They want to be famous. I wasn't interested in fame. They want to get an agent in Hollywood. I wasn't interested in that. I was interested in what Al Pacino had, which was he was the best stage performer of his time. That they're willing to tell you, because they know if you're asking that question, they want to be involved with you.

 

Keith Weinhold  33:44  

right, because you dared to ask. And they can probably perceive your ambition, and people can sense that, and they love that, and it sure can be scary to say, but fear should be your guide. You should follow your fear. We all know that that's where the growth is. It's like the gap in the game. It's been said that the gap between where we are and where we want to be lies our greatest opportunity for growth. We're talking with former NFL player Bo Eason about being the best. We're going to come back and talk about the power of story. Next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education. 

 

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Matt Bowles  36:08  

Hey everybody. This is Matt Bowles from Maverick investor group you're listening to get rich education with Keith Weinhold and don't quit your Daydream.

 

Keith Weinhold  36:27  

Welcome back to get rich education. We're on a mindset journey today to help you level up, be a better person and even be the best.Talking with former NFL football player Bo Eason, and Bo, you're such a powerful storyteller, and I think it's a really important time to be a powerful storyteller. Trust in institutions seems to be at an all time low, from the government to the media. This is partly why the rise of influencer culture has become a thing. So tell us about how a powerful personal story can build instant trust and connection in seconds. Even when it seems like trust is at an all time low.

 

Bo Eason  37:07  

it is at an all time low. That's what Gallup does a poll every year on trust. The question they ask is, do you trust your neighbor? And it's at its lowest it's ever been. They started this in 1972 but it's down to single digits. This is your neighbor. This isn't somebody across the street. This is this isn't somebody in the next town or the next state you know, or the next country. This person you share a backyard fence with.

 

Keith Weinhold  37:34  

right? Like you're afraid to ask them to check for packages on your front porch when you're on a vacation or something. Yeah, the trust

 

Bo Eason  37:41  

below. But everybody gets depressed by the statistic. I get excited about it because there is one group of us that can restore trust. It is the storyteller. It's not just the storyteller, you guys, it's the person who can share themselves personal story, not just a story, although stories, you know, work, and they've always worked for 1000s of years, but personal stories move the dial the most. Give you the most Trust, the most credibility. Personal stories like if I say to you a sentence like this, when I was nine years old, I had this dream, so I decided to draw up a 20 year plan to achieve my dream. If I tell you a sentence like that, you and me, even though it's a simple sentence, right? It's personal to me. Well, personal equals universal. Whenever you're telling a personal story, it affects your audience that much more, because your audience locates themselves inside of your story. That is the science of storytelling, and that's why you earn trust by sharing yourself personally. Now most people don't want to do that. They push back, especially business people, especially left brain, analytical type people, they say to me, Bo I'm not going to share myself, because who cares about my story? And I say everybody, you're just telling the wrong story. You have to tell it very personal and very specific to you, and it has to be a pain point. It has to be a low point in your life. That's where you start the story, because if you start at the top, there's no place to go with story. It's like, think of rocky everybody. Sylvester Stallone was a very smart guy. He was an unemployed actor, and he said, I'm going to employ myself for the rest of my life. Guess how he plays the role of Rocky? He writes the role of Rocky. Who does he put in front of him, Apollo Creed, the greatest heavyweight champion in the world, a character named after a god that's called great storytelling. He put Mount Everest in front of him. And if you notice, that's what he's always done every movie he writes. He's given himself a career because he puts himself at the base of Mount Everest every time. Well, that's where I want you to put yourself. What is your story? Where did you get rejected? It's always at a younger age. You know, Michael Jordan's story is the same as Tom Brady's story is the same story that I have, which is, we all were rejected in high school. We all were told we weren't good enough to play a high school sport. So what did we become the best in our fields? That's what always happens. That's always the story of an elite athlete. So I want you guys sharing yourselves with these stories, and these stories are kind of the ones you kind of don't want to tell because they reveal certain things about you that are kind of humiliating. But humility is the best connective tissue that us human beings have. Isn't that weird? Embarrassment is a great connective tissue success. Isn't that connective? Isn't that weird?

 

Keith Weinhold  40:58  

Yeah, I mean, embarrassment is self deprecating. Most people like that, and everyone can relate to failing.

 

Bo Eason  41:05  

Yep, there's three rules I live by when it comes to storytelling. You guys knew. Number one, it's got to be personal. It's got to be personal. The more personal, the richer you are. It's got to be personal. Guys, I've talked you into this, if I haven't already. Number two, you guys, if you're thinking about wealth, I would think about it in those terms right now. Secondly, it's got to be physical. Stories are physical living things, living, breathing, human things. You can't tell a story like a boring people tell stories they Well, when I grew up, I was poor, and then I walked over to the store, they wouldn't let me have a candy bar. It's boring, it's stupid. It is not physical. You have to embody the story with your physicality. You have to become your story, you guys. I know this might sound crazy to you, but the more physical you are in your life. Now, listen to me, the more physical you are in your life, the more money you make. People don't trust what comes out of anybody else's mouth anymore. They don't trust it. They trust your body 100% of the time. I wish you could see my body right now, because it is alive, and you could probably feel it even though I'm you can just hear my voice. You can hear the physicality of the residents of my voice. Now, the more physical you are in your life, the richer you are, and that's across the board. I don't care if you're a ballet dancer, I don't care if your speaker. I don't care what your occupation is. If you are physical and unapologetic about your physicality, then you're going to make a lot of money. But if you're walking around on eggshells, people know it. If you're walking around apologizing for your masculinity or your femininity, and you're like, you know, you're just half stepping everything. You see people like this all the time. What do you do with them? You dismiss them. But when somebody walks in and you turn your head, you know to look. You heard somebody come in behind you, you turn and look, why? Because they have a presence and they're unapologetic. That is a learned trait, or I should say it's relearning human trait. I've been trained by the greatest movement coach in the world, you guys. The only reason I was trained by him 17 years I was trained by him because every time I saw somebody acknowledge when they won the Academy Award an actor, they would acknowledge this guy. And I go, who the hell this guy that everyone keeps acknowledging keeps thanking for their Academy Award for some performance. I want to know what this guy's doing. I want to know what he's doing with these performers. And he told me where I went and met him. He goes, No one has ever won an award for what they said. No one it's what they did physically. That's how you win. And he's the guy who taught me well. So you guys, number one, the story has got to be personal. Number two, the story has got to be physical, unapologetic. It's so attractive when this happens. That's what I train people to do, because that's what I was trained to do. And then when all these CEOs and stuff started coming to the play, that's what they wanted, that now, you guys, they didn't know to ask me that. They just said, Can you teach my people to do what you do on stage? I go, of course, because I was taught the thing they wanted most was they wanted people to trust their sales people or their leadership team. They wanted all their employees, including them, to be physical in the world, because that is powerful. And you're going to watch this. You can watch this in elections. You can watch this in politicians. The reason they hide behind those podiums is their body betrays them. Their body betrays them. If I ever got hired to coach them, which I've always turned them down, I would put them out in the open like an animal so we can see their whole body, because that we can trust but we don't trust somebody standing behind a podium. Very critical.

 

Keith Weinhold  45:23  

Well, there's a lot there. Yes, so much is conveyed through body language. People like decisiveness and commitment. You talk about how to make a story personal. When you had mentioned when you were nine years old, you laid out a 20 year plan for your life. When you said that me as a listener, that just makes me naturally want to lean in and ask a question about that and let you go on, for example. But when you talk about how stories need to be made personal, why don't we wrap up on how does storytelling work in business? Then say that a real estate investor is trying to attract co investors to his apartment building deal. For example, how would you use story there?

 

Bo Eason  46:07  

Oh, yeah, great question. So many of my clients are people that raise money, whether it's for profit or non profit. They are in the business of building a company, and so they're always asking for money. Well, there's a guy used to run a studio in Hollywood, I think it was Warner Brothers, and he did an experiment. He was building a studio. So he needed millions and millions of dollars, so he went to all his rich friends, and he put a contract out in front of them. One contract only had numbers and percentages and columns written on it. Here's how much you'll invest. Tell us how much you'll make after five years all that stuff. The other contract was the same deal, no numbers, no monies, no percentages, only story, a story of belonging, a story of making a difference. He says, 100% choose the story contract, not the numbers, purpose. There's nothing. There's nothing to connect to. Yeah, I work in the finance world a lot. You guys, people, you know, high wealth, they always want to talk about numbers. And I'm like, rich people are all right brain. You know that? So every billionaire, every millionaire in the world, is right brain, not left right their right brain. But the people managing their money or raising their money are left brain. So they want to talk about numbers. And I'm saying, you guys, you can't talk about numbers, because rich people don't know what you're talking about. Rich people want to belong. They want to see themselves inside the business that you're building. So you better have a hell of a story, and that best story wins no matter what, Best Story wins. If you and me are both building a skyscraper in New York City. If I got a better story than you, guess what skyscrapers gonna get built? Mine. That's got nothing to do with money, because money is everywhere. Money's like air. It's more abundant than air and water. There's money everywhere. But what are rich people attracted to story? Why do you think they call it show business? Show, I'm the show, you're the show. You're the storyteller. The Business People bring the money to the show so rich people don't know how to make movies, they don't know how to tell stories, but they want to give you the money so that you can tell yours. Of course, that's how this thing works. That's why show and business always go together. There's a great saying rich men, when they sit down to dinner, they speak of art. When artists sit down to dinner, they speak of money. Artists sit down to dinner, they speak of money. When finance people sit down to dinner, they speak of art. So they're completing one another. You've got to be an artist. You've got to be able to tell your story, because their dreams and their big bank accounts relying on your vision of what you're going to build that makes you an artist, that makes you here go build what you've got to build here. I want to be a part of it.

 

Keith Weinhold  49:28  

Yeah, I've never heard that before that's remarkable in using story to connect with others, something that seems to be bleeding and so badly needed for connectivity today. Well, Bo this has been great, talking about the best, talking about the power of story. You do so many things to help people in their own growth journey and to expand their own mindset. Tell us about your resource for that.

 

Bo Eason  49:56  

You know what? Because the first thing that when I say, look. Got to find your personal story. Most people go, I don't have one. Well, that's just not true. Everybody has a story. I've worked with 1000s of people, and everyone's got a great, dramatic story. They just don't know it. So I'll send you a free story guide. It's a video course. It's going to give you some prompts, and we're going to find your powerful, personal signature story, so you can begin to use it today. So all you got to do is text me. So text PERSONAL STORY, the word PERSONAL STORY, one word personal story. Text that to this number, 323-310-5504. that's text. Personal story. One word, personal story, to 323-310-5504, text me that, and I will automatically send you a story guide. To start to uncover this thing,you'll start to realize, Wow, I do have a cool story that I can begin to tell whether I'm in the Oval Office or whether I'm in front of 1500 people at us in a speech, you can open with your personal story. It works and it attracts people to you. If I was in your guys shoes, you're interested in building wealth. Me too. If I'm building wealth, guess what? I'm beginning with personal story, and then I just get to go right to the top, because people are only interested in other people who have a vision bigger than the people have for themselves. And that's you. That's you. And your personal story, you have a vision that is bigger than the people have for themselves. If you can do that, guess what? People got to buy into that, they got to invest in, that they got to be around that. They got to marry that.

 

Keith Weinhold  51:47  

Oh, you're so right. I really think this is going to help a lot of our listeners. You the listener, you probably have several good stories inside you, and Bo can really help bring them out, who have the benefit of seeing him on video, he's a really powerful speaker. I've had that same benefit of seeing him on video. You've only listened to him so far. Check out his resource if you think you can benefit from it. Bo, he said, It's surely been valuable. Thanks so much for coming on to the show.

 

Bo Eason  52:15  

Keith, thanks for having me.

 

Keith Weinhold  52:23  

Oh, such sharp insights from a motivating guy, Bo Eason, this week. And hey, if you have kids, are you going to wake them up by hard, rubbing their back in the morning and telling them you're the best? Well, it seemed to work for a little review about what you learned. Bo talked about how the standard is the gold medal, not the end goal, but that the gold medal is actually the standard. That's his mindset. So Bo made sure he met Al Pacino. When they got dinner, he found out that Pacino was the best, so he sought out the best and made sure to get around him. And a lot of people are scared to do that or even ask about the best. And, you know, I just can't help but think that that's like my life experience with women. In high school, I was just so shy and deathly afraid to ask anyone out. But in college and beyond, you know, sometimes I would ask out the most attractive woman, and they would usually say no, but, you know, I can't believe some of them actually would say yes. And see, the more that you do this, the more confident you get. And women like confidence, and can feel that coming from you. And then, so therefore your fear dissipates and it becomes easier to overcome. You have a unique fingerprint in this world, and you yourself. You do have an interesting story. I just know that you have it in you, but the chances are you've never even told your highest and best story to one other human being on this earth, not even once, and perhaps I haven't either. Bo said his stories need to be personal, physical and unapologetic, and his video, course, helps you find your personal story. And if you didn't catch that again, you can get it by texting one word PERSONALSTORY to 323-310-5504. 

 

Coming up in future weeks here on the show, it's probably Yeah, more left brain strategic real estate investing content than right brained emotional content like today's show. But one right brain topic coming up on the show that I want to share with you. I want to tell you why, as a society, we hate Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, because he's wealthy. But yet, society does not dislike wealthy singers like Olivia Rodrigo, Taylor Swift and Dua Lipa. We love them even though they're wealthy. We. Don't resent an actor like Robert Downey, Jr for making $600 million as an actor in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. So it's all about why we vilify successful entrepreneurs for their wealth, including landlords, yet somehow we glorify successful actors, athletes and entertainers for being wealthy. It's a case study that I've been working on. I shared some of it with our newsletter readers last week, and I'll have more on that here on the show. Signing off from the Grand New Orleans investment conference, the nation's longest running investing conference. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.

 

Speaker 3  55:43  

Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively

 

Keith Weinhold  56:03  

The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building get rich education.com.