Kristi Noem is out, and Senator Markwayne Mullin is in (in theory) as the new DHS secretary. Mullin tried to strike a softer tone during his confirmation hearing, nodding towards rolling back controversial policies like entering homes without a judicial warrant—but his reputation as a Senate-floor brawler raises questions about whether that’s just rhetoric. Meanwhile, the partial government shutdown, ongoing since February 14, continues to affect the department, including causing disruptions to airport services.

What do all these developments signal about the direction that DHS is heading?

Guest: Nick Miroff, staff writer for The Atlantic covering immigration.

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Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.

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