The United States and Iran have sparred for decades. But in 2015, during President Barack Obama’s second term, the two countries successfully negotiated the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), known more plainly as the Iran nuclear deal. The deal was hailed as a breakthrough in much of the world, but it also had its critics. In 2018, President Donald Trump withdrew the United States from the JCPOA, and Iran went back to expanding its nuclear program.

Mohammad Javad Zarif was Iran’s foreign minister and lead negotiator during the talks. In this episode, Zarif offers a rare glimpse into the Iranian perspective, why the agreement failed, and what it would take to negotiate a new deal.

The Negotiators is a podcast from Foreign Policy and Doha Debates—and a special partner this season, the International Peace Institute.