On this episode, I sit down with author and folklorist Joshua Cutchin to discuss his latest book, “Fourth Wall Phantoms: Reflections on the Paranormal, Narrative, and Fictions Becoming Fact.”

We also discuss UFOs, archetypes, astrology, addiction, faith, and Kevin Cann’s Platonic Surrealism.

Cann and Professor Jeffrey Kripal will be teach a class at Esalen on Dec. 5 through Dec. 7, “The Soul is a UFO: Understanding and Embracing Transcendence.”

They will use Cutchin’s new book as one of the recommended texts.

Both Cutchin and I are in recovery, and we discuss the way addiction and recovery provides for an initiatory spiritual experience that provides for much personal growth and insight.

We explore how Cutchin’s faith and interest in the paranormal co-exist, and how narrative and story may be a fundamental key for understanding the broad contours of human growth and experience.

To learn more about Cutchin’s work or to buy his books:

www.joshuacutchin.com

To learn more about the Esalen class mentioned above:

https://www.esalen.org/workshops/the-soul-is-a-ufo-understanding-and-embracing-transcendence-12052025

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Music Credits:

Music: Cinematic Logo 04 by TaigaSoundProd

Free download: https://filmmusic.io/song/8221-cinematic-logo-04

Licensed under CC BY 4.0: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Technology Calm Logo 01 by TaigaSoundProd

Free download: https://filmmusic.io/song/6660-technology-calm-logo-01

Licensed under CC BY 4.0: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

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