How To Citizen with Baratunde

Recorded live at The Conduit in London in September 2024, Baratunde and Elizabeth Stewart sit down with their friend and longtime collaborator Jon Alexander, author of CITIZENS and co-host of the podcast How To Save Democracy, for a conversation about citizen as a verb: the radical, hopeful idea that democracy isn't something we have, it's something we do.

They get into the story we inherited about independence, the older and truer story about interdependence, the four pillars of citizening, and why a moment when so much feels like it's collapsing is exactly the moment to start building.

The timing is no accident. On Saturday, June 13, 2026 Jon takes the TED Democracy stage in Philadelphia at the birthplace of American independence, during America's 250th, to make the case for interdependence. A British man crossing the Atlantic to tell us the move is getting back together.

Keep practicing democracy. The verb, not the noun.

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 "We're gonna need some builders" (cold open)
00:02:11 Welcome to How To Save Democracy
00:02:45 How this London night came together
00:03:40 Citizen as a verb, and the shift from head to heart
00:05:40 Latent love: citizen, not consumer
00:07:25 Story as the most powerful technology we have
00:09:45 Consumer democracy and the only restaurant in town
00:10:59 Why the vote still matters
00:12:06 Head, heart, and gut
00:16:24 Co-authors of this world: nature, each other, machines
00:20:29 The four pillars, one at a time
00:21:00 Pillar 1 - Invest in relationships (including with yourself)
00:29:45 Pillar 2 - Understand power (and your attention)
00:33:35 Pillar 3 - Commit to the collective (Bahrain and Broadband Bruce)
00:44:10 Pillar 4 - Show up and participate
00:44:25 Questions from the room
00:46:42 Belonging, authoritarianism, and the case for builders
00:49:38 Burnout, rupture, and repair
00:52:35 Doomsday Preppers: two ways to survive
00:54:10 How might we live together, period
00:56:35 Citizens, not just consumers

LINKS

How To Save Democracy with Omezzine Khelifa & Jon Alexander: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-save-democracy/id1823945285

American Indigenous Democracy: A Call for Interdependence — the book from Haudenosaunee elders and wisdom keepers: https://americanindigenousdemocracy.com

Jon Alexander / CITIZENS: https://jonalexander.net

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Sacred Lessons: Masculinity, AI, and the Great Law of Peace (with Mike de la Rocha)

What if the story we inherited — that being a man, or a nation, means holding it all together alone — is exactly backwards?

Recorded live at the BOOST Conference in Baratunde's adopted hometown of Palm Springs, this is his conversation with Mike de la Rocha on Mike's podcast Sacred Lessons. They get into masculinity and America's founding story, the doctrine that justified conquest, and the much older democratic wisdom that was already here: the Haudenosaunee Great Law of Peace, and what changes when you put peace, care, and women at the center of how we govern ourselves. Then they follow it into the present: broken men in power, the men building our AI, and whether this technology pulls us apart or finally forces us to reconnect.

Before you listen: Baratunde is co-hosting a virtual gathering, Declaring Interdependence, with Valarie Kaur and Indigenous elders José Barreiro and Katsi Cook on Tuesday, June 9 (5pm PT / 8pm ET) — the live companion to everything in this episode. Register below.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Welcome back — and an invitation to Declaring Interdependence
03:49 Sacred Lessons begins: the story we inherit about being a man
07:31 America's big awkward birthday party
08:07 The country as a story — and the doctrine of discovery
10:20 The Haudenosaunee and the Great Law of Peace
16:55 The book: American Indigenous Democracy
19:25 The five principles, starting with women at the center
24:34 Spirit, the unseen, and what his mother taught him
29:30 Practicing interdependence (yes, even with the moths)
31:07 Broken men, power, and refusing to mirror the cruelty
36:55 AI, Elon, and the trap of control
44:25 A better use of the tech: self-knowledge as a shield
48:14 Living with AI: agency vs. power
55:25 For the young man who idolizes the billionaire
57:55 Prepping for the apocalypse — with guns, or with neighbors
01:01:50 From a declaration of independence to interdependence
01:02:39 The Sacred Five
01:13:00 Closing: the book, June 9, and what's next on the feed

LINKS

Declaring Interdependence (virtual, June 9, 5pm PT / 8pm ET): https://www.eventbrite.com/e/declaring-interdependence-a-gathering-for-the-250th-tickets-1990529062008
American Indigenous Democracy: A Call for Interdependence (foreword by Baratunde): https://americanindigenousdemocracy.com
Sacred Lessons with Mike de la Rocha: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-sacred-lessons-with-mike-304426528/
Life With Machines: https://lifewithmachines.media
Everything Baratunde: https://baratunde.com

Recorded live at the BOOST Conference. Next up on the feed: my friend Jon Alexander, ahead of his turn on TED's democracy stage in Philadelphia.

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Baratunde returns to the How To Citizen feed with a conversation that sits right at the intersection of character, democracy, and what it means to citizen in this moment.

This episode features Baratunde in a live discussion with retired U.S. General Stanley McChrystal at the 2025 Masters of Scale Summit in San Francisco. The two dig into the responsibility of leaders in a time of democratic crisis, the historic norms around deploying the U.S. military inside American cities, and why character is not something we simply “have” but something we practice.

They talk about the pressures facing the country, the role of national service, and how AI is changing the speed and stakes of decision-making in military and civic life. Stan shares candid reflections from his own experiences, including moments when he fell short of the character he expected from himself, and what it takes to recover and stay aligned with one’s convictions.

This conversation originally aired on the Rapid Response podcast from the Masters of Scale network. Special thanks to their team for allowing it to run here.

Baratunde closes with reflections on the polycrisis we’re living through, the people who continue to speak up for what’s right, and the power we still have to shape the next chapter of this country.

For more from Baratunde, see his substack newsletter. 

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This is our wrap of our Week of Citizening that I've been doing with Jon Alexander. We found 8 stories from across the U.S. — across sectors, communities, and divides — where people are coming together to make life better, together. See them all here.

See the visuals for this story and all our Week of Citizening stories here: https://linktr.ee/weekofcitizening 

Join our mailing list and share the stories you’re seeing. stories.howtocitizen.com 

The story is everywhere.

It’s happening in libraries, tech hubs, small towns, and fire-stricken neighborhoods.
It’s happening in real politics, real businesses, and real lives.
It’s what humans do — when given the chance.

🌎 We believe it’s time to tell a bigger, truer story about who we are.
💥 We’re just getting started — and we need you with us.

👉🏽 Sign up to get all 8 films + hear what’s next.

Let’s tell this story. Let’s be this story.

Video Produced by: Chilli.app and Summer Solstice

Week of Citizening Collaborators: Baratunde Thurston, Jon Alexander, Shira Abramowitz, Elizabeth Stewart

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There is a model for how we rebuild and heal after the human-made disaster being inflicted on the USA right now. Welcome to Dena Heals—a mutual aid marketplace and wellness center born in the aftermath of the Eaton Fire in Altadena.

See the visuals for this story and all our Week of Citizening stories here:
https://newsletter.baratunde.com/p/this-is-how-we-recover-from-disasters 

This is our final story (for now) in the Week Of Citizening. Join our mailing list and share the stories you’re seeing. stories.howtocitizen.com 

When the 💩 hits the fan, we are told people become selfish and look after themselves alone. Every disaster ever proves otherwise including after the most devastating fire to hit Los Angeles. Something extraordinary took root. Not fear. Not isolation. But care for each other.

Rebecca Solnit said it well: “When all the ordinary divides and patterns are shattered, people step up—not all, but the great preponderance—to become their brothers’ keepers. And that purposefulness and connectedness brings joy even amidst death, chaos, fear and loss.”

Rooted in Indigenous wisdom and the Black Panther 10-Point Program, Dena Heals is a blueprint for what happens when we lead with love, show up for each other, and practice power together.

They’ve supported 3,500+ people from over 500 families. This is what it looks like to citizen in the midst of disaster. Not with despair—but with collective action, healing, and hope.

We saved this story for last in our Week Of Citizening series because it reflects all the pillars of How to Citizen:

🌱 Show up & participate

⚡ Understand power

🤝 Commit to the collective

❤️ Invest in relationships (including nature)

This is how we rise. This is how we rebuild. This is how we citizen. Happy Earth Day

Sign up to share and discover more stories like this: https://stories.howtocitizen.com

Video Produced by: Revolve Impact

Week of Citizening Collaborators: Baratunde Thurston, Jon Alexander, Shira Abramowitz, Elizabeth Stewart

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We head to Eliot, Maine, where a multiracial, multidisciplinary group of artists have reimagined what a conference can be. At SeaCHANGE, creativity isn’t an afterthought—it’s the starting point. The gathering opens with movement and dance. It invites deep connection through shared meals, collaborative workshops, and artistic expression. And it creates space for belonging, especially for artists of color.

Full video viewing options for this story plus links to the Instagram and LinkedIn versions: https://newsletter.baratunde.com/p/how-we-gather-is-how-we-citizen-7th 

🧭 More stories and updates: https://stories.howtocitizen.com

🎙️ This story series is a collaborative effort by Shira Abramowitz, Jon Alexander, Elizabeth Stewart, and Baratunde Thurston. Video produced by Tess Novotnoy.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today we bring you Story #6 in our Week of Citizening. We’ve already shown you how people are rethinking democracy through libraries, labor, and school boards. Now we’re headed to a place often overlooked but brimming with democratic possibility: West Virginia.

See the visuals and links to all these stories here: https://newsletter.baratunde.com/p/dont-wait-for-better-leaders-become 

We’re told politics is about picking the lesser of evils. Ordering off a fixed menu. But what if we left the table… and headed for the kitchen? That’s what the folks behind West Virginia Can’t Wait are doing. And it’s a clear sign that democracy is evolving.

• They’ve passed legislation that’s rare even in liberal strongholds

• They don’t run candidates but communities

• They help hold elected officials accountable and offer ongoing support

This is what Jon Alexander calls the shift from Consumer Democracy to Citizen Democracy. Not just new processes like Citizens’ Assemblies or Participatory Budgeting (though we love those too) — but real people getting a grip on the systems we’ve got, starting from where we are.

“One of the things I’m most proud of in my career is helping to demystify politics. It’s just everyday work for everyday folks.”

— Rosemary Ketchum, West Virginia Can’t Wait

This isn’t happening in some liberal stronghold. This is Appalachia — a place many assume to be too red, too rigid, too far gone. But that’s just not the whole story. I’ve seen firsthand the level of commitment and creativity in Appalachia through my recent travels there for my PBS America Outdoors show. Trust me, these stories are happening in all sorts of underestimated places.

💬 Who else is opening politics to everyday people?

Sign up to share and discover more stories like this: https://stories.howtocitizen.com

Video Produced by: Tess Novotnoy

Week of Citizening Collaborators: Baratunde Thurston, Jon Alexander, Shira Abramowitz, Elizabeth Stewart

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, we head to Chicago, where a civic gathering called Chi Hack Night is bringing technologists, designers, policy nerds, and everyday residents together to build a better city.

Access to visuals for this story are here:

https://newsletter.baratunde.com/p/we-found-the-anti-doge-in-chicago 

and that conversation on Life With Machines with Deb Roy is here

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/life-with-machines/id1766829040?i=1000703577941 

mRelief, a woman-led initiative that’s made it easier for people to access food benefits. Since 2018, it’s helped unlock $2 BILLION (yes, with a B) in SNAP support for people across the country.

In a time of DOGE and digital distrust, it’s tempting to think all tech can do is tear things down. But this is what happens when we invite everyone—not just the billionaires—into the process of shaping solutions.

This is what citizening looks like:

• 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 People-powered innovation

• 🏙️ Tech rooted in place

• 💡 Making tools with communities, not just for them

   

💬 Seen something like this in your community, an org that asks first?

Visit https://stories.howtocitizen.com, join our list, and let us know you have a story to share. These stories are everywhere — and we need them more than ever.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We’re told some people just need to be saved. But what people really need is to be needed. This community of young single mothers in Lexington, Kentucky reveals a version of this story.

Full video viewing options for this story plus links to the Instagram and LinkedIn versions:

https://newsletter.baratunde.com/p/young-mothers-asked-to-lead-and-they-did

This episode features Tanya Torp, Executive Director of Step by Step, a nonprofit that chose to stop assuming what young mothers needed—and started asking.

These moms didn’t just receive support. They shaped it. They requested Narcan training. They showed up. They led. They built trust and built community. And in the process, they reminded us:

People need dignity. Agency. The opportunity to contribute.

More stories and updates: https://stories.howtocitizen.com

🎙️ This story series is a collaborative effort by Shira Abramowitz, Jon Alexander, Elizabeth Stewart, and Baratunde Thurston. Video produced by Alexa Lim.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We’re told America is hopelessly divided. But zoom in—like, say, to a school board in South Central Pennsylvania—and a different story emerges.

Full video viewing options for this story plus links to the Instagram and LinkedIn versions:
https://newsletter.baratunde.com/p/proof-we-can-overcome-division-3rd 

This episode features Steph and Lance: one conservative, one liberal, both neighbors, both school board members. With the support of Urban Rural Action, they chose relationship over partisanship. Listening over labeling. Curiosity over contempt.

And the result? A school board that works. For the kids. For the community. For all of us. This is what it looks like to citizen:

Listen deeply. Speak honestly. Resist the pull to polarize. Build something different—together

🧭 More stories and updates: https://stories.howtocitizen.com

🎙️ This story series is a collaborative effort by Shira Abramowitz, Jon Alexander, Elizabeth Stewart, and Baratunde Thurston. Video produced by Anne Gutteridge.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.