Welcome to a special bonus episode of How To Citizen. We are sharing Baratunde's appearance on the What Could Go Right? podcast, created by The Progress Network. Baratunde discusses technology, and specifically generative artificial intelligence, and how it might help or hinder human progress and how it aligns or deviates from our concept of citizen as a verb.

As always, find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast! Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show!

How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He’s also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

So much of the conversation around democracy focuses on the external: from elections and policy to protests and organizing. While getting active is important...what could happen if we ALSO turn inwards? When we shift our relationship with our insides—what we believe and feel and the unconscious patterns we act from—our world shifts with us. In the final episode of season four, Baratunde sits down with Source Code creator and former psychologist, Dr. Sam Rader, about how we can learn to citizen on a deeper level. 

SHOW ACTIONS

Internally Reflect - Recognize dynamics

What are the dynamics within society that upset you the most? If you are really honest with yourself, how does this dynamic play out inside of you?  To begin the journey of uncovering your unconscious defenses, you can take Dr. Sam’s free Discover Your Top Coping Style Quiz. After you watch the results video, journal on what might be possible for you and your world if this pattern could shift. 

Become More Informed - Learn about Source Code 

Read Dr. Sam’s forthcoming book, ‘Source Code’, one year ahead of publication, in her Return to Love Membership or sign up for her email to find out when the full book is released. Dr. Sam also suggests you check out Karen O’Brien’s book “You Matter More Than You Think.” Karen is a renowned expert on climate change, who introduces us to the fractal nature of reality, and how each of us is the front line of exponential and instant change.

Publicly Participate - Stand for love 

When you next go out to run an errand in your community, attend a cultural event or school meeting, especially in situations that might feel dicey, decide for yourself what it means to you to “stand for love” in those places. Even just setting the intention and putting your attention on it will have a ripple effect. 

SHOW NOTES 

Check out our episode with Heather McGhee who explains why so many Americans have a zero-sum worldview. 

Find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast! 

Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show!

How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He’s also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet. 

CREDITS

How To Citizen with Baratunde is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Rowhome Productions. Our Executive Producers are Baratunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Allie Graham is our Lead Producer and Danya AbdelHameid is our Associate Producer. Alex Lewis is our Managing Producer. John Myers is our Executive Editor. Original Music by Andrew Eapen and Blue Dot Sessions. Our Audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio and Layla Bina. 

Additional thanks to our live audience voices Cynthia LD., Aaron M., Meshach W., Elizabeth G., and Janine D.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There’s no shortage of volunteer opportunities or organizations offering them. But how often are the communities meant to benefit from all of this volunteer work determining what help is truly needed, and which issues are most pressing? Christian Vanizette has spent the last decade building MakeSense, a global network of over 100,000 citizens and entrepreneurs committed to solving social and environmental issues where they live — bringing neighbors together to share solutions to address local challenges together. Baratunde met up with Christian in Paris to find out what it takes to move people from local volunteers to global activists, and to learn more about the creative, strategic, and fun tactics he’s bringing to the fight against climate change. 

SHOW ACTIONS

Internally Reflect - Notice emotionally charged language & stories

Reflect on how you FEEL when you hear the words climate change. What feelings come to mind? Why do you think that is? Have you heard or seen any alternative perspectives that convey the opposite of what you are feeling? Take a week to immerse yourself in the alternative perspective while withholding judgment - just observe and notice how it makes you feel. Be curious and open to the feelings. 

Be Informed - Learn from diverse voices

Watch some informative videos on Climate Town’s Youtube channel, and check out All We Can Save—a book centering women and Indigenous voices—which uplifts and shows us how we can make a better future together. 

Publicly Participate - We ALL need to act

Join a local chapter of the Citizens Climate Lobby and engage with a national, bipartisan group working on many important policy-change campaigns. And as Christian mentioned in the episode, check out and follow @STOPEACOP on instagram and join the regroop app for coordinated climate actions we can take to stop carbon bombs and increase our chances of keeping Earth beautifully habitable for us all.

And while we need to pressure the industry to stop drilling, we also need to change our consumer demand for fossil fuel! Use the Future Card to get cash back when you buy from climate-forward brands (disclosure: Baratunde is an advisor to and investor in this company). 

SHOW NOTES

Find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast! 

Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show!

How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He’s also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet. 

CREDITS

How To Citizen with Baratunde is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Rowhome Productions. Our Executive Producers are Baratunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Allie Graham is our Lead Producer and Danya AbdelHameid is our Associate Producer. Alex Lewis is our Managing Producer. John Myers is our Executive Editor and Mix Engineer. Original Music by Andrew Eapen and Blue Dot Sessions. Our Audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio and Layla Bina.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Whether you’re a sports fanatic, or you’ve never stepped foot on a court or field—there’s a lot we can learn about citizening from the lens of coaches and athletes. To show us how sports can help us with teamwork, discipline, and a sense of play in our citizening efforts— Baratunde is joined by Steve Kerr, head coach of the NBA championship-winning Golden State Warriors and relentless advocate for gun violence prevention, along with Dr. Kensa Gunter, a clinical and sports psychologist, and Jamie Zaninovich, the Deputy Commissioner & COO of the Pac-12 Conference.

SHOW ACTIONS

Internally Reflect - How it feels to work with others

For those of you that played team sports, how did teamwork make you feel? What about teamwork was easy for you? What parts were challenging? Or if you didn’t play team sports, picture any other team you’ve been a part of in school or work. What personal benefits did you receive by coming together with others to work on something? 

Be Informed - Sites to help you get going

Find the issue you’re passionate about and start learning!  Go to howtocitizen.com and click on Let’s Start to get personalized results that will help you learn about issues you care about. Let curiosity guide you. Once you get your quiz results, let us know what you start learning!

If you are an athlete or coach, check out All Vote, No Play to find civic drills you can do together as a team. 

Publicly Participate - Your presence has power

Bear witness by lending your presence and listening as another way to publicly participate. Join Baratunde as he practices publicly participating in this way. Find and attend a gathering in your community (council meeting, non-profit assembly, school board meeting, church potluck or other community forum) and simply be present and LISTEN. 

SHOW NOTES

Find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast! 

Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show!

How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He’s also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet. 

CREDITS

How To Citizen with Baratunde is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Rowhome Productions. Our Executive Producers are Baratunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Allie Graham is our Lead Producer and Danya AbdelHameid is our Associate Producer. Alex Lewis is our Managing Producer. John Myers is our Executive Editor and Mix Engineer. Original Music by Andrew Eapen and Blue Dot Sessions. Our Audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio and Layla Bina.

Special thanks to Lisa Kay Solomon, Coach Eric Reveno & D1 Ticker for inviting us to be part of this discussion and being great partners in citizening.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How we gather matters. A lot. And what is a nation but a big ol’ gathering of gatherings? Baratunde talks with Priya Parker, facilitator and author of The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why it Matters, about how we can use gatherings as a tool for strengthening our relationships by doing things together that invoke joy and have meaning. Listen till the end to hear Priya answer a listener’s pressing question during the live taping. 

SHOW ACTIONS

Internally Reflect - Gatherings & their impact

Think about gatherings in your life. What was a great one where you felt connected, fulfilled, and a sense of purpose? What was a bad one? Was there one that surprised you? See if you can remember how you felt attending each one. Did it bring you closer to other people?

Become More Informed - Meetings can be where you practice democracy

Check out Priya’s conversation with Brené Brown on her Dare to Lead podcast. They go through an example of Priya’s Gathering Makeover. It’s focused on improving a weekly leadership meeting which may sound like it has nothing to do with practicing democracy, but it’s actually quite the opposite.  Also check out Priya’s website and The Gathering Toolkit.  

Publicly Participate - Practice gathering

Download her free guide on The New Rules of Gathering. Then, plan a gathering based on this workbook. It can be anything: poker night, tenant association meeting, or congressional hearing. See if you and your folks feel differently about this gathering than others.

SHOW NOTES

Find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast! 

Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show!

How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He’s also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet. 

CREDITS

How To Citizen with Baratunde is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Rowhome Productions. Our Executive Producers are Baratunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Allie Graham is our Lead Producer and Danya AbdelHameid is our Associate Producer. Alex Lewis is our Managing Producer. John Myers is our Executive Editor and Mix Engineer. Original Music by Andrew Eapen and Blue Dot Sessions. Our Audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio and Layla Bina.

Additional thanks to our live audience voices Cassandra S. and Katie R.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The intensifying political division and violence in our country is concerning — but it’s not unique. And few know that better than Tim Phillips. For 30 years, his organization Beyond Conflict has been bringing people from opposing sides of violent divides together to find common ground. He shares insights from their research into human psychology that could hold keys for overcoming violent division, along with lessons from Northern Ireland, South Africa and beyond to help us fight polarization here at home. 

SHOW ACTIONS

Internally Reflect - Try the 90-Second Rule 

Think about a time when you strongly disagreed with someone about a political or ideological issue, and notice where you felt that tension or frustration in your body. The next time you’re in that situation: try the 90 second rule — created by Harvard researcher Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor, who found it takes 90 seconds for an emotion to pass. Before engaging in a debate or discussion that gets your blood boiling, take 90 seconds to do absolutely nothing: wait to exchange words, step away from your phone — whatever it takes to give you that minute and a half of simply not-that-debate.

Become More Informed - Learn about polarization 

Check out this video from Tim’s organization, Beyond Conflict about polarization and misperceptions between Democrats and Republicans in the U.S. And if you want to dig deeper, read their two reports on the issue: America’s Divided Mind: Understanding the Psychology That Drives Us Apart and Renewing American Democracy: Navigating a Changing Nation. Tim also recommends listening to this interview with South African leaders about how the U.S. can move beyond toxic polarization. 

Publicly Participate - Invest in building real relationships 

Move conversations offline and invest in building real relationships with people across the aisle in your community. Try engaging with organizations setting up opportunities for Americans to come together, and navigate our divides at the local level, such as One America Movement, Civic Genius, Make America Dinner Again, and Living Room Conversations.

SHOW NOTES

Read Tim’s article about what neuroscience can teach us about gun culture in America. 

Find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast! 

Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show!

How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He’s also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet. 

CREDITS

How To Citizen with Baratunde is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Rowhome Productions. Our Executive Producers are Baratunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Allie Graham is our Lead Producer and Danya AbdelHameid is our Associate Producer. Alex Lewis is our Managing Producer. John Myers is our Executive Editor. Original Music by Andrew Eapen and Blue Dot Sessions. Our Audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio and Layla Bina. Additional thanks to our citizen voices Andrea B., Debra, Ina P., Mary P., Damon W., and Allison M.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

According to Ruha Benjamin, we’re living inside someone else’s imagination. An imagination that  limits our ability to build a more just, liberated world. So, how do we take back our agency and begin to seed something different? Baratunde talks with Princeton professor and founding director of the Just Data Lab, Ruha Benjamin to find out.

SHOW ACTIONS

Internally Reflect - Bear witness and create a ripple

This one is inspired from Ruha’s book Viral Justice: How We Grow the World We Want which says: “…bear witness to the weight of individual and communal protective acts and consider how all of us can be involved in sheltering one another from the rain and sun by cultivating relationships, skills, accountability, and healing.”

Think about when you witnessed someone near you perform an act of justice or kindness or protection for another. Was it a big or small act? Did it require courage? How did witnessing that make you feel about the world? Is it something you could repeat and further the impact?

Become More Informed - Learn about racial justice 

Ruha recommends Rest is Resistance: A Manifesto by Tricia Hersey and The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander both of which you can find on our Bookshop page.  

Publicly Participate - Invest in your community using your time & skills

Check out ways to invest and get to know your community using your existing skills and experience.  If you’re 60+ check out Thirdact.org and Cogenerate.org. If you’re 25-59 check out Volunteermatch.org and Catchafire.org. If you're 16-24 check out Civicsunplugged.org and Youthclimatelobby.org.

SHOW NOTES

Walk through Breonna’s Garden and check out Lady Phoenix’s IG for more. 

Find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast! 

Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show!

How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He’s also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet. 

CREDITS

How To Citizen with Baratunde is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Rowhome Productions. Our Executive Producers are Baratunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Allie Graham is our Lead Producer and Danya AbdelHameid is our Associate Producer. Alex Lewis is our Managing Producer. John Myers is our Executive Editor and Mix Engineer. Original Music by Andrew Eapen and Blue Dot Sessions. Our Audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s no secret that our economy only works for a select few. But what would our economy look like if we prioritized people and the planet, instead of profit? Economist Kate Raworth says it might look like a doughnut and to build it requires changing how we talk about, teach, and imagine economics. Baratunde talks with Kate about her theory of doughnut economics and how we can build an economy that works for all life on Earth—exploring how our small acts of consumerism can enhance or degrade a culture of democracy. 

SHOW ACTIONS

Internally Reflect - What We Call Ourselves Matters

It's clear that we show up with different values, norms and expectations when called as a citizen rather than as a consumer. Take a moment to reflect on how you might interact differently with e-commerce and purchasing decisions if you were called a “Steward to the Commons.”

Become More Informed - Digest the Doughnut 

Check out Kate's 2018 TED talk (where Baratunde first met her!). Also, read Kate’s book Doughnut Economics: Seven Ways to Think Like a 21st-Century Economist. 

Publicly Participate - Find or Start Some Doughnuts Near You

Join the community at Doughnut Economics Action Lab! You can check out the members map to find others near you and read stories of how community groups are getting started putting the ideas into practice. You can also create your own event on DEAL's platform inviting others in your locality (be it town, city, or state) to join you. And check out the tools Kate mentioned: Doughnut Unrolled and Doughnut Design for Business. 

SHOW NOTES 

Check out the Doughnut Unrolled tool Kate developed for cities and places interested in trying out the doughnut. 

Find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast! 

Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show!

How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He’s also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet. 

CREDITS

How To Citizen with Baratunde is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Rowhome Productions. Our Executive Producers are Baratunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Allie Graham is our Lead Producer and Danya AbdelHameid is our Associate Producer. Alex Lewis is our Managing Producer. John Myers is our Executive Editor. Original Music by Andrew Eapen and Blue Dot Sessions. Our Audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio and Layla Bina.

Additional thanks to our citizen voices Wesley F. and Sara H. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Imagine if the members of your group chat shared more than memes but also shared a bank account, or if the early users of a social media app helped decide how that app grew, made money, and moderated content. How does the group make decisions and make sure everyone is heard? Who decides how the money is spent? These are some of the questions Friends with Benefits (FWB), a decentralized autonomous organization (DAO) has had to answer. Baratunde talks with FWB Mayor Alex Zhang about DAOs, online community-building, and Web3 to find out if the way we citizen online can positively affect how we citizen IRL.

SHOW ACTIONS

Internally Reflect - How we shape the spaces we inhabit

Take a moment and think about your relationship to the digital spaces you spend time in. This could be social media, gaming, or a group chat. Where do you feel like an active participant, where you set the terms and tone of the environment? Where do you feel passive, like someone else is  in charge? How might you change that relationship? 

Become more informed - Web3, squads, and digital public spaces

We can create a healthier culture of democracy through web3 beyond starting and joining DAOs. If you’re new to this world, the New York Times’ has a great primer on Web3.

Once you’ve read that, take a deep dive into the history of “Squads”— a form of social and economic organizing that is shifting power and social dynamics away from an individualistic society.

If our conversation with Alex made you curious, check out our episode with Eli Pariser from New_Public. We go deep on how to better design digital public spaces. 

Publicly participate - Sharing power and setting culture in groups

You’re likely a part of a group, a tenants or homeowners association, a parent group, a committee at work. The next time you’re at one of your meetings, take note of how the group makes decisions. Who speaks? Who is silent? What areas are open to input? What is considered off-the-table? Is there even an agenda!? Over time see if you can identify the kind of culture the group has: chaotic? Deferential? 

Can you find any opportunities for the group to make that culture more small-d democratic, by rotating speaking or leadership roles, or openly acknowledging how decisions are made and how that might shift? We don’t need to find new groups and spaces to practice this democracy thing—let’s start where we are.

SHOW NOTES

Check out our episode with Taiwan's Digital Minister, Audrey Tang for more on quadratic voting, and our episode with Pia Mancini, cofounder of Open Collective, a platform empowering collectives and mutual aid groups with new transparent, decentralized financial tools.

Read Debt: The First 5,000 Years by David Graeber. 

Find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast! 

Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show!

How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He’s also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet. 

CREDITS

How To Citizen with Baratunde is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Rowhome Productions. Our Executive Producers are Baratunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Allie Graham is our Lead Producer and Danya AbdelHameid is our Associate Producer. Alex Lewis is our Managing Producer. John Myers is our Executive Editor. Original Music by Andrew Eapen and Blue Dot Sessions. Our Audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio and Layla Bina.

Special thanks to our citizen voices Tania F., Ned K., Sara H., and Janine D.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Instead of electing politicians to represent us…what if we just represented ourselves? Peer to peer. Neighbor to neighbor. Baratunde talks with Claudia Chwalisz about citizens’ assemblies—groups randomly-selected by lottery that are shifting political and legislative power into the hands of everyday people. Claudia is one of the world’s leading voices on citizens’ assemblies and founder and CEO of DemocracyNext, an organization working to build new institutions for the next democratic paradigm.

SHOW ACTIONS

Internally Reflect - Imagine life with citizen assemblies

Our reflection prompt is inspired by the DemocracyNext launch event, which you can view on YouTube. Imagine it’s 10 years in the future, and we’ve established new civic rituals. Election Day is out and Sortition Day – the day that people selected by lottery are assigned to various citizen assemblies – is in. What might it feel like to serve in one of these well-facilitated and compensated assemblies with your neighbors? Imagine what it would be like to read media coverage of the deliberations that focus on a community’s attempt at finding common ground, rather than who made the most outlandish statements. What headlines do you see? How do politics feel in this future?

Become Informed - Learn from global citizen assembly experiments

To learn more about citizen assemblies, read the New Yorker essay by Yale political science professor Hélène Landemore. For a deeper dive, read her book, Open Democracy. To see a citizen’s assembly in action, check out the Irish Citizens' Assembly or the permanent citizens' assembly in Paris. Also check out Claudia’s organization, DemocracyNext.

Publicly Participate - Get involved with DemocracyNext and direct democracy powered by everyday people

Subscribe to the DemocracyNext newsletter - they'll be launching a global community of enthusiasts wanting to learn more and help build this next democratic paradigm.

And if you’re ready to roll up your sleeves and start practicing democracy this way with others, look to the non-profit org Democracy Without Elections for resources to get started locally. 

SHOW NOTES 

Check out our episode from season 2 with writer and organizer Astra Taylor for more on this idea of citizen assemblies as envisioned by the Greeks.

Find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast! 

Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show!

How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He’s also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet. 

CREDITS

How To Citizen with Baratunde is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Rowhome Productions. Our Executive Producers are Baratunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Allie Graham is our Lead Producer and Danya AbdelHameid is our Associate Producer. Alex Lewis is our Managing Producer. John Myers is our Executive Editor and Mix Engineer. Original Music by Andrew Eapen and Blue Dot Sessions. Our Audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio and Layla Bina. 

Additional thanks to our live audience voices Robert B., Sara H., Liza W, and Nick C.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.