Human Nature Odyssey

Gather around the campfire for a ghost story about the most destructive monster in history: civilization itself. 

In this episode, we delve into the countercultural writings of Fredy Perlman, whose strange 1983 book “Against His-Story, Against-Leviathan”—riddled with grammatical errors and misspellings—blends myth and history to explore the nature of power, subjugation, and the struggle between the rulers and the ruled.

Our journey takes us back to ancient Sumer, where egalitarian hunter-gatherer communities transformed into peasants and slaves bound by a mysterious force even the rulers couldn’t control. 

We trace the rise of the first Lugals, the original kings of Mesopotamia, from Urukagina of Lagash, whose reforms sowed the seeds of his downfall, to Sargon of Akkad, who conquered all of Sumer only to become part of the Leviathan’s vast machinery.

Together, we’ll explore how power and control first took root in the world's earliest cities—and how those ancient systems still shape our world today.

This is a spooky episode. The hair on the back of your neck might stand up. But we can stay seated and relax. It is just a story after all. A fairytale, as Fredy would call it.

If you’d like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you enjoy your podcasts, leave us a review, and visit humannatureodyssey.com.

Join us on Patreon and get exclusive access to audio extras, writings, and notes.

CITATIONS

Against His-Story, Against Leviathan [book] by Fredy Perlman (1983)

Sargon of Akkad [article] by Joshua J. Mark (2009)

Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles [book] by Albert Kirk Grayson (1975)

Akkadian Empire victory stele circa 2300 BC from Louvre Museum

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI 

All rights reserved.

1.  Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop 

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI    

2.  iTunes: 

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3.  Spotify:  

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

Additional Credits

Vanhan ajan sota, taistelu, miekkailu / Ancient, old time battle, combat, horses snorting and galloping, men shouting and barking, fencing, swords clanging, mix by YleArkisto -- https://freesound.org/s/258207/ -- License: Attribution 4.0

In the spring of 1992, twenty-four-year-old Christopher McCandless left society behind, hitchhiking 3,000 miles into the Alaskan wilderness.

Two years earlier, Chris had donated his entire life savings to Oxfam, burned his social security card, and headed west seeking life on his own terms - without telling a soul, particularly his parents. 

In this episode, we delve into Into the Wild's larger cultural implications, exploring the conflict between self and society, community and solitude. Philosophers like Henry David Thoreau, John Muir, and John Locke will weigh in. As well as George Carlin and Malcolm and the Middle.  

We’ll investigate the concept of “wilderness” - how Euro-American settlers viewed it versus their Native American counterparts.

And for those of us who dream of escaping the troubles of society, we’ll explore McCandless as an inspiration and cautionary tale. 

If you’d like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you enjoy your podcasts, leave us a review, and visit humannatureodyssey.com.

Join us on Patreon and get exclusive access to audio extras, writings, and notes.

CITATIONS

Into the Wild [book] by Jon Krakauer (1996)

Into the Wild [film] directed by Sean Penn (2007)

George Carlin’s appearance on Late Night with Conan O’Brien (1996)

Malcolm in the Middle [sitcom] (2000-2007)

How Chris McCandless Died [article] by Jon Krakauer (2016)

Myths of Wilderness in Contemporary Narrative [book] by Kylie Crane (2012)

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI 

All rights reserved.

1.  Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop 

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI    

2.  iTunes: 

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3.  Spotify:  

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

Is it possible to escape industrialism, capitalism, imperialism or are we trapped? Crazy Town podcast hosts Jason Bradford, Rob Dietz, and Asher Miller join us for a wide-ranging discussion of big topics like modern civilization’s converging crises, the concept of 'red pilling', and the 1993 Bill Murray classic film Groundhog Day. 

With equal parts humor and in-depth analysis, Asher, Rob, and Jason safeguard their sanity while probing crazy-making topics like climate change, overshoot, runaway capitalism, and why we’re all deluding ourselves.

In addition to hosting the Crazy Town podcast, they are also leaders of the Post Carbon Institute in Corvallis, Oregon. Founded in 2003, PCI’s mission is to lead the transition to a more resilient, equitable, and sustainable world by providing individuals and communities with the resources needed to understand and respond to the interrelated ecological, economic, energy, and equity crises of the 21st century.

If you’d like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you enjoy your podcasts, leave us a review, and visit humannatureodyssey.com.

Join us on Patreon and get exclusive access to audio extras, writings, and notes.

Learn More:

Crazy Town Podcast

Post Carbon Institute

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI 

All rights reserved.

1.  Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop 

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI    

2.  iTunes: 

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3.  Spotify:  

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

Opening and closing music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio

What death is required for life to grow? In our culture’s resistance to death we seem to have caused so much of it.

And what if humans aren't inherently a destructive force on the planet? How might we actually be another symbiotic part of our ecosystems?

Jake Marquez and Maren Morgan are the hosts of Death in the Garden, a podcast exploring the complex intersection between myth, civilization, climate change.

Mandy Magill is a regenerative agriculture educator and cofounder of the Earth Regeneration Alliance and Rooted in Real.

In this episode we’re sharing exerpts from both these conversations to explore our culture’s aversion to death, how food is the nexus of civilization, and alternatives to conventional farming that can regenerate ecosystems and recreate our relationship with nature.

If you’d like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you enjoy your podcasts, leave us a review, and visit humannatureodyssey.com.

Join us on Patreon and get exclusive access to audio extras, writings, and notes.

More on Mandy's organizations: Rooted in REAL (Regenerative, Ethical, Authentic, Local) is an upcoming app that will educate and guide subscribers to food and beverage businesses that are sourcing REAL food and products, along with creating community and philanthropy around living regeneratively. Earth Regeneration Alliance is focused on educating the public, introducing and guiding regenerative legislation, and creating community around the many ways to heal and regenerate Planet Earth.

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI 

All rights reserved.

1.  Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop 

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI    

2.  iTunes: 

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3.  Spotify:  

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

Civilization is an interactive immersive experience. Worldbuilding isn't just for sci-fi and fantasy, but how we can change our society.

Abraham Burickson, co-founder of Odyssey Works—an organization dedicated to crafting personalized, immersive experiences—has long been captivated by the transformative power of design. Whether in the structure of a building or the verses of a poem, he explores how these creations shape our perceptions and interactions with the world.

In his latest book, Experience Design: A Participatory Manifesto Abraham encourages us to envision societal change as a collective act of worldbuilding. Join us as we explore how societies formed through the experiences we design—spanning from weddings and funerals to conferences, protests, and the holidays we commemorate.

How would you redesign how we experience the world? How could fantasy worldbuilding be used for real-world change? 

If you’d like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you enjoy your podcasts, leave us a review, and visit humannatureodyssey.com.

Join us on Patreon and get exclusive access to audio extras, writings, and notes.

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI 

All rights reserved.

1.  Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop 

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI    

2.  iTunes: 

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3.  Spotify:  

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

In this very special episode, author Daniel Quinn’s wife Rennie Mackay Quinn joins us for her first ever interview: sharing untold stories, new insights, and reflections on her life and journey with her beloved late husband & Daniel Quinn.

Rennie tells us about the 15 years it took Daniel to write Ishmael, the childhood dream that sparked it, how the word "hamburger" changed their lives, how they navigated the response and acclaim to Ishmael, and much more.

CITATIONS

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn (1992)

Providence by Daniel Quinn (1994)

You can read more of Rennie and Daniel’s story at Ishmael.org and see Rennie’s paintings at RMQabstracts.com.

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI 

All rights reserved.

1.  Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop 

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI    

2.  iTunes: 

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3.  Spotify:  

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

In this climactic culmination of the Ishmael series, we ask the question : how do we transform an entire society?

Ishmael doesn’t give us the “10 Simple Steps to Save the World” instead, he offers us a map and compass to navigate our intergenerational civilizational transformation ourselves. Where we go from here is up to us.

We’ll meet the fantastical Prince who first concocted the criminal justice system, have a final reckoning with our Taker Mythology hat, and return to the abandoned land of Ashbourne.

Thank you to Honan and Dylan for their voice acting.

CITATIONS

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn (1992)

Washington Post "Turner Prize" by David Streitfeld (1991)

creativity-found.org/ted-turner

AV Club "CNN’s doomsday video" by Sean O'Neal (2015)

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI 

All rights reserved.

1.  Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop 

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI    

2.  iTunes: 

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3.  Spotify:  

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

Is it possible to build a civilization that flies? (metaphorically speaking of course)

How did we eventually learn to fly? It wasn’t by defying gravity and disobeying aerodynamics but by learning how to work with them. 

Daniel Quinn, in his novel Ishmael, argues there are laws of nature that we have to learn to live within, rather than resist, if we are to continue as a society. In this episode we explore what this “Law of Life” could be.

This is an episode of short stories, cinematic sound effects, and wacky voices. Strap in for liftoff. 

Citations

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn (1992)

Scientific American (2020)

Thank you to Maddy and Austin for their voice acting. You can listen to Madima's music on Spotify here.

"Vadim Krakhmal - Journey To The Toucan Isle" is under a Creative Commons (CC BY-SA 3.0) license Music promoted by BreakingCopyright

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI 

All rights reserved.

1.  Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop 

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI    

2.  iTunes: 

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3.  Spotify:  

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

Who first told the story of the Garden of Eden? Could it have been a way to explain the unfolding Agricultural Revolution from the perspective of the people who were there?

The Garden of Eden has been told and retold for thousands of years. Why do we keep telling it? With insight from modern biblical scholarship, we investigate the origins of this ancient story and what warning this active myth still has yet to be heeded today.

It’s an adventure to the far flung lands of Alex’s 5th grade classroom as well as the lush old-growth forests of the Middle East (before all the desertification). 

There’s parables, characters, and plenty of special effects. You’ll want to bring some popcorn for this one. And don’t listen to anything that serpent tells you on the way in.

This episode is largely indebted to the research and writing of J. Snodgrass and his fascinating book “Genesis and the Rise of Civilization”. If you would like to learn more, you’ll find an exclusive interview with J. Snodgrass on the HNO Patreon.

Citations

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn (1992)

Genesis and the Rise of Civilization by j. Snodgrass (2011)

Sapiens by Yuval Harari (2011)

Indigenous Continent: The Epic Conquest of North America by Pekka Hämäläinen (2022)

The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race from Discovery Magazine (1999)

Beat Provided By https://freebeats.io Produced By White Hot

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI 

All rights reserved.

1.  Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop 

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI    

2.  iTunes: 

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3.  Spotify:  

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f

In this episode we take a step back from Ishmael to better view the philosophical context it was written in.

We explore the history of the terms “civilized” and “primitive” and how their definitions have evolved over time.

Topics include: Rome’s influence on Western European colonization, noble savage theory, primitivism, and the rise of the identity “indigenous”.

When we say civilization who do we include and exclude? Who is civilized and what does that mean?

If you’d like to support Human Nature Odyssey, please subscribe wherever you enjoy your podcasts, leave us a review, and visit humannatureodyssey.com.

Join us on Patreon and get exclusive access to audio extras, writings, and notes.

Citations

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn (1992)

The Dawn of Everything by David Wengrow and David Graeber (2021)

Of Plymouth Plantation by William Bradford (1620-1647)

Indigenous Continent: The Epic Conquest of North America by Pekka Hämäläinen (2022)

Music: Celestial Soda Pop

By: Ray Lynch

From the album: Deep Breakfast

Courtesy Ray Lynch Productions © Ⓟ 1984/BMI 

All rights reserved.

1.  Amazon: Celestial Soda Pop 

https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000QQXURI    

2.  iTunes: 

https://music.apple.com/us/album/celestial-soda-pop/3242445?i=3242425

3.  Spotify:  

https://open.spotify.com/track/2THDVIVytLuGX7S7UghuC1?si=20ea63807bba401f