Jon Walsh pulls back the curtain on what it really takes to scale a challenger FMCG brand without drinking your own Kool-Aid. From tying purpose to exit strategy, to why profit is a prerequisite (not a betrayal), to the tiny commercial decisions that quietly unlock big growth, this is a grounded, no-nonsense breakdown of taking Bio&Me from £2m to £20m. Heavy on real-world trade-offs, buyer reality, margins, packaging, people, and founder intensity — light on startup theatre. A sharp, practical listen for anyone trying to build something durable. 

=============== 🍽️ ON THE MENU ===============

🎯 Why purpose and exit strategy aren’t opposites
💰 How building for valuation actually sharpens purpose
🧬 Turning gut health science into a real brand advantage
📈 Scaling from £2m to £20m without losing the plot
👥 Letting go of knowing everything — and why that’s progress
🤝 Delegation, trust, and building a team that outgrows the founder
📊 Why sustainable profit matters more than growth theatre
⚖️ The delicate dance between growth and EBITDA
🏭 Co-manufacturers: the hidden risk-takers founders forget
🔍 Finding margin through nuance, not hacks
📉 Promotions, pricing, shrinkflation, and honest trade-offs
🛒 Why proximity to purchase beats flashy brand spend
🧠 Innovating close to the core — and when to break the rule
🥣 Going cross-category without killing valuation
🧪 Science + taste: why health food must still be delicious
🏬 How retailers really think about challenger brands
🧑‍💼 Buyers, rangers, merchandisers — who actually holds power
📦 Packaging as your most important marketing asset
📐 The big rocks vs the pebbles of scaling a brand
💥 The hardest decisions founders avoid: people and partners
😬 Breaking up with early suppliers as you scale
🕰️ The intensity myth: what “hard work” really looks like
🚫 Why work–life balance is mostly bullshit at £20m
❌ The biggest mistakes made on the way up
🧭 What didn’t change from £2m to £20m — and why that matters
🛍️ Why retailers aren’t the enemy (and never were)
🔮 How thinking about exit quietly shapes every decision today

Whether you’re building an FMCG brand, advising founders, or navigating the jump from scrappy startup to serious scale, this episode is a masterclass in commercial realism, leadership maturity, and doing the unglamorous work that actually compounds.

==============================================

TIMESTAMPS
00:00:00 Why Purpose and Valuation Reinforce Each Other
00:01:43 What Bio&Me Actually Is (and Why It Exists)
00:02:28 Gut Health as a Real Commercial Advantage
00:03:18 From £2m to £20m: Understanding Run Rate
00:04:40 Letting Go of Knowing Everything
00:05:20 Delegation, Trust, and Growing a Leadership Team
00:06:46 Why Profit Is Non-Negotiable
00:07:25 The Delicate Dance Between Growth and EBITDA
00:07:54 Funding Losses by Selling Equity
00:08:18 Moving Into Profit — and Team Buy-In
00:09:16 How Bio&Me Actually Became Profitable
00:10:19 Co-Manufacturers Take the Biggest Early Risks
00:11:25 Promotions, Pricing, and Margin Finesse
00:12:33 Shrinkflation, Transparency, and Consumer Trust
00:13:59 Honest Marketing Beats Clever Marketing
00:15:18 Relentless Cost Discipline as You Scale
00:16:47 Team Size Myths and the Shoreditch Trap
00:18:10 The Hires That Really Moved the Needle
00:19:11 Innovate Close to the Core
00:20:22 When (and Why) to Go Cross-Category
00:21:24 Gut Health Science: Fibre vs Fermentation
00:22:52 Purpose as a Filter for Expansion
00:24:03 How to Be Meaningfully Better Than Competitors
00:26:17 The Reality of Managing Multiple Categories
00:27:12 Why This Is a Golden Age for Challenger Brands
00:29:10 Coopetition and Founder Generosity
00:31:03 The Three Big Growth Levers to £20m
00:32:29 Proximity to Purchase Beats Brand Hype
00:33:20 In-Store Marketing That Actually Works
00:34:29 Building vs Maintaining a Brand
00:36:40 Understanding Buyers, Ranging, and Power
00:38:51 Packaging as Your Best Marketing Asset
00:40:30 The Hardest Decisions Are About People
00:41:27 Breaking Up With Early Partners
00:43:17 Why Scaling Is Intensely Hard
00:44:10 The Work-Life Balance Myth
00:45:42 Competition as Fuel
00:47:34 Buyer Needs vs Consumer Needs
00:49:16 The Biggest Mistakes on the Way Up
00:50:33 Under-Investing in Marketing
00:51:32 Waiting Too Long to Hire
00:52:42 What Changed — and What Didn’t — at £20m
00:54:00 Why Retailers Aren’t the Enemy
00:55:42 How Exit Thinking Shapes Decisions Today

🔥10x creativity beats 10x budget. Want a life changing HUNGRY Creative Workshop for your team? DM brother
 

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In this brutally honest conversation, Tom Kerridge joins Dan Pope to unpack what it really takes to survive—and thrive—in modern hospitality. From building The Hand and Flowers into a two-Michelin-star pub, to closing businesses post-Covid, navigating razor-thin margins, and separating ego from decision-making, Kerridge offers a masterclass in resilience, leadership, and realism.

Plus they explore why restaurants are “pirate ships” full of misfits and intensity, why front of house matters as much as food, and why most chefs overestimate their own importance. Kerridge opens up about addiction, ADHD, chaos versus control, and replacing alcohol with obsessive focus—first swimming, then lifting, then business... what an unbelievably candid conversation with one of England's hospitality legends. But, this isn’t a romanticised chef story. It’s a clear-eyed look at pressure, responsibility, fear, and why hospitality only works when passion is matched with brutal commercial discipline.

📺Check out the video on Youtube :yt: for an even Hungrier experience

=============== 🍽️ ON THE MENU ===============

🔥 Why hospitality is one of the hardest businesses on earth
💸 The brutal economics behind why restaurants barely make money
🚪 Why opening a restaurant “makes no sense” on paper
🧭 Tom Kerridge’s non-negotiable business principles
🦠 Why Covid sharpened—not softened—decision-making
🧠 The difference between thinking like a chef vs a restaurateur
🔄 When to kill ideas, pivot concepts, and move on fast
🤝 Lessons learned from working with Gary Neville
🏋️ Talent vs relentless work ethic in elite kitchens
⭐ What Michelin stars really change (and what they don’t)
🏴‍☠️ Why kitchens are “pirate ships” by design
🛎️ How front of house quietly makes or breaks restaurants
💥 The tiny irritants that destroy great hospitality
👫 Building businesses with partners—and surviving it
⚡ ADHD, chaos, control, and creative intensity
🍺 Replacing addiction with obsession
👨‍👦 What success actually means as a parent
🏉 Why rugby explains kitchens better than business books
📱 The invisible chef WhatsApp networks
🏆 What separates a three-star human from everyone else
📺 Navigating TV without becoming a caricature
🏅 How Kerridge won Great British Menu
💣 The one truth chefs hate hearing

Whether you’re a founder, operator, chef, or creative leader, this episode is a no-nonsense masterclass in pressure, responsibility, and building something that actually lasts.

==============================================

On The Menu:
00:00:00 The Hospitality Industry Is a Monster
00:03:45 Why Restaurants Barely Make Money
00:04:45 Why Opening a Restaurant Makes No Sense
00:07:00 Tom Kerridge Business Principles
00:08:35 Radical Transparency With Staff
00:12:15 If It Was Easy Everyone Would Do It
00:13:25 Why Kerridge Loved Covid Problem-Solving
00:15:05 Chef vs Restaurateur Thinking
00:16:45 When Concepts Fail and Must Change
00:18:20 Lessons From Working With Gary Neville
00:22:40 Talent vs Relentless Hard Work
00:29:50 Putting Personality on the Plate
00:30:55 One Star vs Two vs Three Michelin
00:34:45 Kitchens Are Pirate Ships
00:36:20 Making Michelin Feel Safe
00:38:20 The Coach’s Ridiculous Burger Explained
00:41:45 Silent Irritants That Ruin Restaurants
00:42:30 Front of House Creates the Experience
00:48:15 Building a Business With Your Partner
00:52:55 ADHD, Chaos, and Control
00:55:35 Replacing Alcohol With Obsession
01:03:00 What He Wants His Son to Learn
01:06:45 Rugby, Kitchens, and Team Roles
01:08:35 The Chef WhatsApp Inner Circle
01:14:45 What Makes a Three-Star Human
01:15:45 Navigating TV and Media Without Becoming a Caricature
01:20:35 How Kerridge Won Great British Menu
01:24:45 The One Truth Chefs Hate Hearing 

🔥10x creativity beats 10x budget. Want a life changing HUNGRY Creative Workshop for your team? DM brother
 

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Most companies talk about strategy as if it’s a spreadsheet problem. At Tony’s Chocolonely, strategy is about choosing which risks you’re willing to live with — permanently. In this conversation, Doug from Tony’s Chocolonely breaks down how real strategic decisions get made when the stakes are high, the information is incomplete, and playing it safe isn’t an option. This isn’t theory. It’s what happens when your strategy has real consequences — for margins, growth, and an entire global supply chain. 

=============== 🍫 ON THE MENU =============== 
🎲 Why business strategy is closer to poker than chess 
⚖️ How Tony’s decides which risks to carry — and which to refuse 
🚫 Why “sensible” decisions often lead to weak strategy 
📉 What most companies lose when they optimise for safety 
🌍 Making strategic bets at global food scale 
🧠 Leadership decisions you only face when the stakes are real Whether you’re a founder, marketer, operator, or senior decision-maker, this is a masterclass in how to think about risk, trade-offs, and long-term bets — without hiding behind frameworks. 

============================================== 

♨️Still bloody HUNGRY? Course ya are. Each week I spend 15 hours writing my newsletter. It’ll take you 5 mins to read. Full of wisdom from the biggest names in food and drink. 
Subscribe here - https://hungryfeast.beehiiv.com/🍲 

Let's Connect! 
►Let’s link-up here ​ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-pope/) 
►Stalk me here ​ (https://www.instagram.com/_hungry.pod/) 

🔥10x creativity beats 10x budget. Want a life changing HUNGRY Creative Workshop for your team? DM brother
 

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What the monk?! Saiphin Moore, the visionary founder of Rosa's Thai Cafe, recounts how her ex-husband once invited a Buddhist monk to convince her to sell the burgeoning business. This extraordinary anecdote perfectly encapsulates Saiphin's journey, which began in a remote Thai mountain village where she lived without electricity until age 15, learning to cook on charcoal from seven and even raising a pet pig for income. Her leap to Hong Kong as a nanny, where she encountered hoovers and rice cookers for the first time and learned English from a single piece of paper, set the stage for her entrepreneurial spirit. Saiphin’s philosophy blends Buddhist principles of calm, acceptance, and forgiveness with a fierce drive to be "better than anyone else" and "honest with the customer" – a commitment she refused to compromise, even when faced with monastic persuasion. Now, with Rosa's Thai expanding to nearly 50 sites and a new venture in Dubai, she continues to champion authentic Thai cuisine.

ON THE MENU: 
1. Growing Up Off-Grid in the Thai Mountains
2. Mountain Wisdom: Competition Without Jealousy
3. Buddhist Lessons for Business and Life
4. The Monk Who Told Me to Quit My Restaurant
5. From Rural Thailand to Hong Kong Culture Shock
6. Why London Was Ready for Real Thai Food
7. Street Food Principles: Honesty, Quality, Simplicity
8. Reinventing Delivery Without Killing the Food
9. Scaling Restaurants Without Losing Consistency
10. Trust Your Gut and Cook Authentically

 Got empty tables? EatClub connects your restaurant with diners in real time, turning quiet hours into profit.
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Robin Gill is a serial restaurateur who has built multiple, entirely different restaurant concepts — not chains, not repeats. In this episode, Robin breaks down why great hospitality isn’t about big gestures or surface-level creativity — but about systems, discipline, and invisible details that customers feel without ever consciously noticing. Drawing on years of building restaurants from scratch, we explore what actually creates loyalty, repeat business, and long-term success — in hospitality and far beyond. =============== 🍽️ ON THE MENU =============== ⚙️ Why great hospitality is mostly invisible 🧠 Performance vs delight — and why it matters 🚫 Why removing friction beats trying to impress 🔍 The small details customers feel but never articulate 🏗️ Building restaurants as systems, not vibes 🎯 Why doing fewer things perfectly wins 📈 What hospitality teaches any business about human behaviour This isn’t about food trends or hype. It’s about how well-designed systems quietly win. 

 Got empty tables? EatClub connects your restaurant with diners in real time, turning quiet hours into profit.
Contact us: [email protected]