Igniting Imagination

By Wesleyan Impact PartnersSociety & Culture Religion & Spirituality Christianity Spirituality Relationships

Igniting Imagination episodes

April 21, 2022Brian McLaren on Becoming a New Kind of Christian and New Kind of Church
In these five episodes of Season 5, we’ll be meeting stunning spiritual entrepreneurs who are making a profound impact as they follow God’s call on their lives. They are the recipients of the 2022 Locke Innovative Leader Award.
To help us set the stage for these conversations, we begin with Brian McLaren! In book after book (his newest book Do I Stay Christian? comes out in May… we talk about it!), with startling clarity, he lays bare the deeply troubling and the fundamentally beautiful aspects of the church and what it means to be the Body of Christ in the world. Being human, being Christian, is messy and imperfect. Christ, have mercy. And still, God is good. And the Holy Spirit is at work in the world. Our conversation is as challenging as it is hopeful. May it spark new conversations, renewed hope, and new imagination for what is possible.

QUOTES
“You realize for many people Christianity is defined by adherence to a set of beliefs. You can be a racist. You can be a bigot. You can be an abuser, but you’re still an orthodox Christian because of beliefs. So it just raises this question, what does this word even mean?” -Brian McLaren [19:20]
“Don’t imitate. Innovate.” -Brian McLaren [34:43]

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00] Intro
[00:45] Co-host Matt Russell
[01:47] About the Locke Innovative Leader Award
[04:21] About Brian McLaren
[10:00] Brian’s faith journey
[16:42] Defining the word, Christian
[22:14] What it is to be a new kind of Christian
[31:01] The role of leaders and spiritual entrepreneurs
[40:39] Outro

RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Brian McLaren’s newest book Do I Stay Christian? A Guide for the Doubters, the Disappointed, and the Disillusioned, is coming out on May 24th but can be preordered now here.
RSVP for the Locke Leader Virtual Event
You are invited to attend a virtual event honoring the 2022 Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award recipients. Earlier this year, four extraordinary leaders received a surprising letter from our organization. Without their knowledge, each leader had been nominated and selected to receive the second annual Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award. We would be honored if you would join us to celebrate them at a virtual event on Sunday, May 22 at 5 pm CT / 6 pm ET. RSVP and find out more about the Locke Award at award.wesleyaninvestive.org. Expect to be inspired by their stories and filled with hope for the future of the church’s witness! (45 minute virtual event, register today!)
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Brian McLaren Bio
Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, activist, and public theologian. A former college English teacher and pastor, he is a passionate advocate for “a new kind of Christianity” – just, generous, and working with people of all faiths for the common good. He is a faculty member of The Living School and podcaster with Learning How to See, which are part of the Center for Action and Contemplation. He is also an Auburn Senior Fellow and is a co-host of Southern Lights. His newest books are Faith After Doubt released in January 2021, and his next release, Do I Stay Christian is coming out in May and can be preordered now.
42 min
April 19, 2022 Igniting Imagination Season 5 Trailer
Season 5 of Igniting Imagination is coming soon! Host Lisa Greenwood and co-host Matt Russell talk about spiritual entrepreneurship and innovative ministry with author, activist, and public theologian Brian McLaren and our four 2022 Locke Innovative Leaders. Listen to this short trailer for a glimpse of our conversations with courageous leaders sharing their powerful, inspiring stories. If you like our podcast, please share your favorite episodes with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
4 min
March 17, 2022Prophetic Imagination in a Parking Lot with Mandy McDow
In our final episode for the season, Mandy McDow, pastor of Los Angeles First UMC, shares the story of LA First who razed their building in 2002. Yep. No building. That reality forces a posture of constant discernment: God, what is the difference you would have us make in this neighborhood in this season? Theirs is not a tidy, perfect story. It’s messy and real and very much in process. We hope it inspires you as it has us! Wow!

QUOTES
“That’s the first barrier for entry to understanding how God loves you. The way the church behaves is the way people perceive that God behaves.” -Mandy McDow [12:02]
“I think every congregation has the capacity to adapt. It’s just a matter of when you decide to do it. Do you do it in crisis? Or do you do it so that you’re not in crisis?” -Mandy McDow [19:09]

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00] Intro
[02:12] What to listen for in the conversation with Mandy
[03:47] Meet Mandy McDow
[04:46] This history of LA First
[12:13] How they got to the parking lot
[15:13] How the DNA is showing up now
[19:27] Inviting congregation into imagination
[25:09] LA First in 10 years
[27:24] Distinguish between fan and follower
[35:23] Outro

RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Visit LA First’s website here.
Read Lisa Greenwood’s monograph about God’s Mixed Ecology: The Changing Spiritual Landscape here.
New Feature: Transcripts for this Season’s Episodes
We will have transcripts for each of our episodes this season. Visit our website to download this week’s transcript. We hope these additional resources will help you share these conversations with your friends, colleagues, and leadership teams to spark the spirit within you, your organization, and “ignite imagination!”
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Mandy McDow’s Bio
Rev. Mandy McDow grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee and attended Oglethorpe University in Atlanta, Georgia. She attended Princeton Theological Seminary for her Master of Divinity and is currently pursuing doctoral work at Candler School of Theology. Mandy has served congregations in Atlanta, Laguna Beach, and in 2017 accepted the appointment to Los Angeles First UMC with one catch and you’ll hear about it in the interview: the church bulldozed their building in 2001. Mandy has a black belt in Taekwondo, she is an aspiring musician, still has a passion for sweet tea, and is the proud mother of three children.
34 min
March 10, 2022Power and Abundance with Mike Mather
“What does ‘Distributing Power’ look like for a congregation?” is a frequent question we get about our fourth adaptive muscle. Now we can say: listen to this interview with Mike Mather! Mike helps us make the connection between distributing power and abundance.
When Mike and his congregation started actually living out their beliefs that everyone (both inside and outside of the church) has gifts, it changed their perspective–and their church–for the better. They began to look for the gifts their neighbors possessed instead of their needs. They shifted how they perceived their role in the community from being bringers of all good things to being connectors who bring people’s gifts together for the good of the neighborhood. Mike is a powerful storyteller, we can't wait for you to hear this conversation! May his stories and lessons stick with you and inspire you to discover the gifts and power already at work in your neighbors and in your neighborhood.

QUOTES
“She didn’t need training. She needed people who saw she had gifts and power. That was when things really shifted for me.” -Mike Mather [12:58]
“I would say what we often talked about it as was ‘How do we join the power that God has present in the lives of our neighbors?’” -Mike Mather [30:19]

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00] Intro
[00:55] What it means to distribute power
[04:41] Meet Mike Mather
[05:29] What Mike hopes people get out of his book
[08:01] The pivot in his life
[13:15] How that impacted how his church did ministry
[20:12] The impact to Mike as a leader
[29:22] It changed their job descriptions
[30:38] Point to where the power is at work
[32:38] Where he met resistance and/or obstacles
[43:31] Outro

RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Read Mike Mather’s book Having Nothing, Possessing Everything for more insights that inspire and equip leaders with very practical ideas for moving beyond buildings and into the streets.
Read Lisa Greenwood’s monograph about God’s Mixed Ecology: The Changing Spiritual Landscape here.
New Feature: Transcripts for this Season’s Episodes
We will have transcripts for each of our episodes this season. Visit our website to download this week’s transcript. We hope these additional resources will help you share these conversations with your friends, colleagues, and leadership teams to spark the spirit within you, your organization, and “ignite imagination!”
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Mike Mather’s Bio:
Mike Mather is the pastor at First United Methodist in Boulder, Colorado. For many years, Mike was the pastor at Broadway United Methodist Church in Indianapolis, Indiana. Before that he served as pastor of another church named Broadway in South Bend, Indiana. Mike is also on the faculty of the Asset-Based Community Development Institute at DePaul University. Mike is the author of Having Nothing, Possessing Everything: Finding Abundant Communities in Unexpected Places. As a preacher-consultant-storyteller, he speaks all over the country about community development and urban ministry.
45 min
March 03, 2022Nurturing Thriving Communities with Adam Barlow-Thompson
Adam Barlow-Thompson, co-founder of The Neighboring Movement, wants us to meet our actual neighbors. While that may seem like a simple idea, research (and perhaps experience) shows us that few of us truly engage our neighbors. Adam invites us to move from the theoretical ‘love your neighbor’ to the literal: meet your neighbors in the eight houses or apartments around you and discover the gifts God has given them. Adam does not simply offer a rosy picture of neighboring. He relates a story of a neighbor who slammed the door on his colleague one day, and a year later embraced the chance to work with neighbors in a community garden.
Neighboring is a long-term investment in relationships. The Neighboring Movement is not a numerical church-growth program with an aim to get more people in pews, rather a shift in mindset from scarcity to abundance that ultimately results in a congregation’s increased joy. This conversation is packed with inspiring stories and practical ideas for connecting with neighbors, discovering their gifts, and bringing people together to foster a thriving community.

QUOTES
“In many ways, we’re asking you to meet your neighbor. Like that is such a simple task.” -Adam Barlow-Thompson [24:17]
“To be a good neighbor means you have to be present in your neighborhood.” -Adam Barlow-Thompson [30:35]

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00] Intro
[00:48] Blair’s story about her neighbor
[02:46] The proximity of neighbor
[03:53] Why neighboring is so important for the church
[06:48] Meet Adam Barlow-Thompson
[08:41] Host’s reactions to the conversation
[11:35] Why neighboring is important
[15:03] What it means to be a neighbor
[20:32] Where social media plays into neighboring movement
[23:38] Is the neighboring movement subservice?
[26:51] The Good Neighbor Experiment
[36:15] The Eight Front Doors Project
[42:18] Outro

RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Read all about the Neighboring Movement and find resources like the Eight Front Doors Project here.
Read Lisa Greenwood’s monograph about God’s Mixed Ecology: The Changing Spiritual Landscape here.
New Feature: Transcripts for this Season’s Episodes
We will have transcripts for each of our episodes this season. Visit our website to download this week’s transcript. We hope these additional resources will help you share these conversations with your friends, colleagues, and leadership teams to spark the spirit within you, your organization, and “ignite imagination!”
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Adam Barlow-Thompson’s Bio
Adam Barlow-Thompson is a graduate of Southwestern College and Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary. He served for 6 years as the Executive Pastor at Woodlawn UMC in Derby, KS, and created a Process Communication Model-based worship service called Swerve. Adam is a certified trainer and provider of Process Communication Model, Servants by Design, and Leading Out of Drama. In 2016 Adam left the local church to become a full-time trainer/facilitator and to support the nonprofit Neighboring Movement which he founded with Ashley and their neighbors.
The Neighboring Movement believes the best way to create vibrant, thriving communities is by first creating neighborly relationships, connecting people–just like you–with others whose skills, passions and causes can change the world for good.
Adam loves playing banjo and laughing loudly. He can be seen around the neighborhood playing music on the front porch or riding his bike to the office. Adam is always up for a story or a laugh and is an eternal optimist when it comes to his neighborhood. Adam is married to Ashley and they have a son named Prescott.
43 min
February 24, 2022The Purpose of the Institutional Church with Gil Rendle
Most of us can readily identify with having a love-hate relationship with the Institution of the Church. Gil Rendle’s latest paper, Jacob’s Bones: On the Church’s Institutional Future, addresses our ambivalence head-on and offers a distinction that is a gamechanger. He states, “Institutions are not organizations that house values. Institutions are values and disciplines that need organizations to bring their gifts to the people.”
Listen to this week’s episode of Igniting Imagination as we dig deeper into this conversation with Gil. We hope it sparks a new imagination in you around the vital work of identifying the core truths, values and practices that reside at the center of what it means to be the Church today.

QUOTES
“We still have this internal knowledge that there is something of great purpose in what we’re doing by forming a family. There is something of great purpose in what we’re doing in forming a marriage or in being part of a religious community or seeking democracy or wanting to serve the common good. This is going back to fundamentals that reside pretty deep in us.” -Gil Rendle [31:55]
“The younger an institution is or the younger an expression of an institution is, the easier it is because the closer it lives to its purpose.” -Gil Rendle [32:59]

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00] Intro
[01:06] The purpose of talking about purpose
[05:10] Meet Gil Rendle
[06:24] Host’s reactions to this conversation
[11:32] About Jacob’s Bones: On the Church’s Institutional Future
[15:17] Institution as a construction of a social reality
[19:43] Problem-solving instead of discernment
[24:31] How leaders shift from problem-solving mode to discernment mode
[30:08] What we’re experiencing
[34:47] What giving Gil hope for the future of the Church
[37:32] Outro

RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Read Gil Rendle’s publication “Jacob’s Bones: On the Church’s Institutional Future” for free on our website here.
In the intro, Blair references this article from Fortune: 2022 Will Be A Year of Continuing Transformation by Alan Murray and David Meyer
Read Lisa Greenwood’s monograph about God’s Mixed Ecology: The Changing Spiritual Landscape here.
New Feature: Transcripts for this Season’s Episodes
We will have transcripts for each of our episodes this season. Visit our website to download this week’s transcript. We hope these additional resources will help you share these conversations with your friends, colleagues, and leadership teams to spark the spirit within you, your organization, and “ignite imagination!”
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Gil Rendle’s Bio
Dr. Gil Rendle is a retired Senior Vice President and part-time consultant with The Texas Methodist Foundation in Austin, Texas and an independent consultant working with issues of change and leadership in denominations.
Rendle has an extensive background in organizational development, group and systems theory, and leadership development. He has consulted with congregations on planning, staff and leadership development, and issues of change. He is well known for his work with middle judicatory and national denominational offices and staff as they wrestle with denominational and congregational change.
He is the author of ten books, a contributor to four books, and the author of numerous articles and monographs. His most recent books include Journey in the Wilderness: New Life for Mainline Churches (2010) and Back to Zero: The Search to Rediscover the Methodist Movement (2011) both published by Abingdon Press and Doing the Math of Mission: Fruits, Faithfulness and Metrics (2014) and Quietly Courageous: Leading the Church in a Changing World (2018) both published by Rowman & Littlefield. Rendle is a resident of Pennsylvania where he lives with his wife, Lynne.
38 min
February 17, 2022Leading Organizational Grief with Shannon Hopkins
One big takeaway about the Five Muscles (Grieving Well, Discerning Purpose, Walking Alongside, Distributing Power, Expanding Imagination) is that they are all connected. Shannon Hopkins, co-founder and lead cultivator of RootedGood, profoundly understands that grieving well makes discerning purpose and expanding imagination possible. Shannon shares the origin story of her organization RootedGood. She and her colleagues discerned that Matryoshka Haus, the 15-year-old organization she founded and that was by many accounts thriving, could no longer continue in the same way. They decided to let go of what was so that they could step into the new dreams God had for them and RootedGood and two other organizations were born. This conversation with Shannon is rich with insight about grieving as a leader, leading an organization through loss, and living and leading out of the reality and great gift of the Christian tradition that there is life, death, and life after death.

QUOTES
“If we don’t do the work of grief, it will come out another way, and I think whether that leads us to toxic, unhealthy organizations and communities, we don’t need more of that.” -Shannon Hopkins [29:49]
“There’s going to be some pain, and it’s going to take and require some bold leadership. And it’s going to look like death before it looks like life, but I think that’s where it’s exciting.” -Shannon Hopkins [46:52]

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00] Intro
[00:52] The theme for Season 4
[03:38] A story about muscles from Scott
[05:29] The changing spiritual landscape
[07:52] About Shannon Hopkins
[10:11] Hosts’ observations
[14:28] Matryoshka Haus and RootedGood
[22:07] How purpose ties with needing to grieve and move on
[23:36] Recognize the need to grieve
[30:57] Difference between leader’s grief and corporate grief
[35:02] How God’s imagination has taken off
[38:52] How this has changed Shannon personally
[43:13] The hope Shannon has to offer to the church
[48:58] Outro

RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
RootedGood’s Tools and Games
Explore RootedGood’s website to find tools and games to help you implement design thinking, produce creative ideas, launch new ventures, generate revenue consistent with mission, measure your impact, and more. Membership in RootedGood’s Mycelium Network allows access to all of the content and a dynamic network of social impact leaders.

How to Lead When Things Fall Apart
Shannon Hopkins names and explains the five stages of a healthy pivot when the structures you have built no longer work. This is an important read and a helpful conversation starter for leadership teams as we continue to navigate disruption, change, and the feelings of loss that come when things do not go as we had hoped and planned. (5 min read)

Read Lisa Greenwood’s monograph about God’s Mixed Ecology: The Changing Spiritual Landscape here.

New Feature: Transcripts for this Season’s Episodes
We will have transcripts for each of our episodes this season. Visit our website to download this week’s transcript. We hope these additional resources will help you share these conversations with your friends, colleagues, and leadership teams to spark the spirit within you, your organization, and “ignite imagination!”

This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Shannon Hopkins’ Bio
Shannon Hopkins is an extreme networker and social entrepreneur living in East London. Her passion for community and individual transformation has launched or influenced the formation of fifteen campaigns, projects, and organizations — and trained over 200 social entrepreneurs. In 2008, Shannon was awarded the Women of the UN and UK’s Annual Woman of Peace Award for The Truth isn’t Sexy, a campaign that addressed the demand side of human trafficking.
A Texas native, in 2004 Shannon moved to London and founded Matryoshka Haus. Part incubator, part community, part training organization, Matryoshka Haus was born of a fundamental belief that a different world is possible. Shannon is excited to see how over a decade’s worth of work, passion, and learning will live on and take new shape in the US through RootedGood. Shannon’s mission-centered focus on bridging the gap between partners, funders, and cause-related champions in a post-Christian secular world is rooted in one powerful concept: inspiration. In her words, “I think we undervalue what inspires us and moves us to act… but once someone is inspired it can really set a whole host of things in motion.”
50 min
February 10, 2022Bonus Episode: “Disruptive Trends Impacting Churches”
Vice President of Leadership Ministry and host Rev. Lisa Greenwood welcomes guests Rev. Rachel Billups and Rev. Matt Rawle to discuss disruptive trends impacting churches. Drawing from recent articles about 2022 trends by Carey Nieuwhof, Joe Park, and Thom Rainer, the three discuss how multi-access is here to stay, the shift to more decentralized power, the role of authority, giving permission to play, less givers giving more…and so much more! This engaging conversation will surely ignite your imagination for what God may be inviting you to consider in your context this year and beyond.

See our show notes for an invitation to email us your reflections from today’s topic for a chance to win a copy of Gil Rendle’s book “Quietly Courageous.”

QUOTES
“As we’re moving forward, even myself, I have to let go of the fear of what I know and step into something I don’t know.” -Rev. Rachel Billups [07:14]
“That’s the beauty of a church in a community is that we’re not going anywhere. Even if you disappoint us, even if you walk away, even if you don’t join my church and leave, you’re still in the neighborhood, and it’s still my job to love you and serve you.” -Rev. Matt Rawle [31:26]

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00] Intro
[02:55] Permission to play
[08:24] Transformation is in the hands of God
[10:02] Influence over authority
[13:20] Three marathons…
[18:59] Less will give more
[24:11] Lessening the generation gap
[29:03] Community focus is more important than ever
[37:05] Outro

RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Three Articles on Trends
Today’s episode references 1) Carey Nieuwhof’s 12 Disruptive Church Trends that Will Rule 2022, 2) Joe Park’s Seven Trends to Watch in 2022, and 3) Thom Rainer’s Ten (Very Different) Church Trends for 2022.

Email and Enter a Drawing for a Free Book
What trends are you noticing? We’d love to hear from you! Email Lisa ([email protected]) your reflections on trends and we’ll enter your name into a drawing for a free copy of Gil Rendle’s book “Quietly Courageous.” We’ll pick three names next Wednesday (2/16)

Posts Related to Today’s Episode
Matt Rawle’s recent blogpost “The Center of Nine” expands on what he shares in our conversation, including the “Three Covid Marathons” he sees and his thoughts on what it means to “Abide.” Dan Bracken is a member of Rachel Billups’s team at Ginghamsburg Church and wrote this piece about their first steps into ministry in the metaverse.

New Feature: Transcripts for this Season’s Episodes
We will have transcripts for each of our episodes this season. Visit our website to download this week’s transcript. We hope these additional resources will help you share these conversations with your friends, colleagues, and leadership teams to spark the spirit within you, your organization, and “ignite imagination!”

This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Matt Rawle’s Bio:
Matt is the Lead Pastor at Asbury United Methodist Church in Bossier City, Louisiana and a graduate from the LSU School of Music and Duke Divinity School. He is an international speaker who loves to tell an old story in a new way, especially at the intersection of pop culture and the church. Matt is also the author of The Heart that Grew Three Sizes, The Grace of Les Misérables, What Makes a Hero?, The Faith of a Mockingbird, Hollywood Jesus, The Salvation of Doctor Who, and The Redemption of Scrooge. He and wife Christie have four awesome kids: Isabelle, Annaleigh, Cecilia, and Robert.

Rachel Billups’ Bio:
Rachel Billups is a visionary, leader, speaker and author. Currently she serves as Senior Pastor at Ginghamsburg Church multi-campus ministry in Tipp City/Dayton Ohio. Rachel draws on her love of people and passion to explore new venues for ministry and mission.
Rachel is an ordained Elder within the United Methodist Church and holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Bible/Religion and History from Anderson University and a Master of Divinity Degree from Duke Divinity School.
Most days you can find Rachel reaching out – praying online, hosting Open Table gatherings in her home or enjoying moments with husband Jon and their four loves: Adeline, Christopher, David and Sarah. She also might be cheering for those Duke Blue Devils and The OSU Buckeyes.
Rachel is a popular speaker for national gatherings and has recently authored BE BOLD: Finding your Fierce as well as co-authoring Down to Earth: Hopes and Fears of all the Year Are Met in Thee Tonight and Sent: Delivering the Gift of Hope at Christmas – all published by Abingdon Press. You can find her on social media at: @rlbillups.
38 min
December 16, 2021Expanding Imagination with Amy Oden
The fifth and final muscle the church needs to strengthen in order to be fit, agile, and ready for God’s now is Expanding Imagination. Dr. Amy Oden teaches theology, the history of Christianity and spiritual formation. Her ability to combine deep theological thought with spiritual practice and bring ancient wisdom to inform contemporary life is not just relevant…her work is truly revelatory for the church today.
In this conversation, Amy connects imagination with the life and ministry of Jesus and the work of the early church. She invites us to see curiosity as a spiritual practice so we can have the discipline to explore what God might be imagining instead of moving too quickly into problem solving and resolution. Amy explores how hospitality is connected to expanding imagination and the gift of science in giving us awe and wonder. This conversation is packed with insight and inspiration for becoming more imaginative in your context!

QUOTES
“It takes discipline to withhold that really strong muscle that we’ve developed very well of jumping to resolution. But instead what spiritual practices do is help us stay in the unknowing, the not knowing, the not jumping into conclusions long enough to pay attention to what God is up to here.” -Amy Oden [22:16]
“When we pay attention to our bodies, God has given us this incredible gift of embodiment where God is often revealed. God speaks to us through our bodies, and that’s often where grief shows up. ” -Amy Oden [30:45]

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00] Intro
[00:50] Answering questions from listeners
[04:57] How to start exercising the muscles
[09:07] Meet Dr. Amy Oden
[16:34] How Expanding Imagination applies to the church
[21:04] What spiritual practices inform about curiosity
[23:50] At the table with the stranger and the other
[29:06] How it links back to grief
[33:03] What “all” means to Amy
[38:29] Outro

RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Visit Amy Oden’s website to find out more about her books and other recent podcast interviews.
Read Amy’s book “Right Here, Right Now: The Practice of Christian Mindfulness”
Read more about the Five Muscles on our website and download a PowerPoint presentation to share with your leadership.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
40 min
December 09, 2021Distributing Power with Joerg Rieger
The fourth of five muscles the church needs to strengthen in order to be fit, agile, and ready for God’s now is Distributing Power. Dr. Joerg Rieger is the Distinguished Professor of Theology and the Cal Turner Chancellor’s Chair of Wesleyan Studies at Vanderbilt University. He has spent the last two decades addressing the relation of theology and public life, reflecting on the misuse of power in religion, politics, and economics.
In this conversation, Joerg reminds us that distributed power is at the heart of Jesus’ ministry and the ministry of John Wesley and the people called Methodists. He connects spiritual practices with distributing power, inviting us to do the work of theology so that we might grow in holy power not to hoard it but to channel it. This conversation with Joerg is full of that holy power. We can’t wait for you to listen!

QUOTES
“I remember years ago there was some theologian who wrote a book saying we have to ask more God questions and less me questions. And everybody was really excited about this book. ‘We have to ask more God questions and less me questions.’ In the Perkins faculty where I was teaching at the time was really excited, and I said ‘What if your God questions are really your concealed me questions?’ Is that possible, right, that you talk about God, and you’re really talking about yourself.” -Joerg Rieger [13:41]
“Power is not a dirty word, but it’s a different sort of power. If you want to use modern language, you could say it’s more democratic. It’s more shared. It’s something that brings people together. Something that builds relationships. Something that builds solidarity.” -Joerg Rieger [15:00]

TIMESTAMPS
[00:00] Intro
[01:14] Current conversations with congregations
[05:23] Meet Joerg Rieger
[07:06] Highlights from the interview
[10:51] What comes to mind with “distributing power”
[17:04] The issue of power in the US right now
[20:58] Ways to build those power muscles
[25:42] Practices to get a better grip on the notion of power
[33:26] Signs of hope
[38:55] Outro

RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Visit Joerg Rieger’s website to find out more about his books and other recent podcast interviews.
Joerg’s book “No Religion but Social Religion” reflects on the Wesley’s understanding of grace, God, and religion.
Read more about the Five Muscles on our website and download a PowerPoint presentation to share with your leadership.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
40 min

About Igniting Imagination

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Every movement for change starts with a generative conversation. The Igniting Imagination podcast features rich conversations with leaders across the church landscape that invite you into new…