One of God’s greatest gifts to us is friendships, especially what our guest Rev. Dr. Victoria White calls “holy friendships.” These are the friendships that not only make life more enjoyable and more creative, but they are also core to who we are and who we become. They are “mutual and sacred relationships formed in God’s love,” and they help us be who God designs us to be. She gives us permission to drop the idea that we have to be hyper-productive lone rangers in the world and calls us to spend more time with our friends. She points out that even Jesus depended on the diversity and friendship of his disciples for his ministry. We are excited for you to hear this conversation on the life-giving importance of holy friendship. Listen with a friend over coffee!

Quotations

"Our society has commodified friendship and developed it into something that can be consumed. The church offers a real opportunity for us to cultivate the conditions for more authentic, more mutual, more holy relationships that help form us into the people God is creating us to be."

• Rev. Dr. Victoria White

"My holy friends are going to do that for me because they know that my work matters; they know that what I am doing contributes to the way that I am bearing witness to God's work in this world."

• Rev. Dr. Victoria White

"You know you're in a holy friendship when you can be uber confident and unashamedly yourself."

• Rev. Dr. Victoria White

We discuss:

The different forms that holy friendships can take and how they can impact various aspects of life. (6:00)

The power of friendship in forming disciples and the importance of cultivating authentic relationships in the church. (11:39)

The positive impact of spending time with friends on energy, creativity, and overall performance in various aspects of life. (16:00)

The significance of mutual respect, covenant, and conversation in friendships, especially in the face of inequality and social issues. (29:44)

Exploring the connection between holy friendships and institutions, highlighting the need for friendships among institutions. (34:03)

Find the poem from the podcast here.



About 

Victoria Atkinson White is the managing director of grants at Leadership Education at Duke Divinity. In this role, she encourages traditioned innovation among Christian institutions and their leaders. For eight years, Victoria was a chaplain at the 900-resident Westminster Canterbury Community in Richmond, Virginia. Before that, she worked as minister to alumni at the Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond. Victoria is a graduate of Duke Divinity School, Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond and Rhodes College. She is an ordained minister affiliated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship.

Victoria is author of Holy Friendships: Nurturing Relationships That Sustain Pastors and Leaders, a book about how pastors and Christian institutional leaders serve more creatively, effectively, and joyfully when they feel supported and art of an intimate community of colleagues and friends who care about their personal and professional wellbeing.

Show Notes

Victoria Atkinson White is the managing director of grants at Leadership Education at Duke Divinity. In this role, she encourages traditioned innovation among Christian institutions and their leaders. Victoria is a graduate of Duke Divinity School and an ordained minister affiliated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. She is also author of Holy Friendships: Nurturing Relationships That Sustain Pastors and Leaders.

This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.

Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

In a world of surface-level connections, true friendship is a divine experience. Friendship forms us and allows us to show up as our true selves. Join us as this season as we delve into the power of sanctifying friendship.

Rev. Alisha Gordon wants black single mothers not just to survive but to thrive socially, economically, and emotionally. This vision, borne out of Alisha’s own experience as a single mother, led to the start of the Current Project, an advocacy and mission-driven organization focused on supporting the well-being of black single mothers by connecting them to the resources needed to attain and maintain thriving. At the end of every episode this season, we have asked each guest, “What is a breath of fresh air in the church today that is nothing less than the gift of the Spirit?” This conversation with Alisha is a breath of fresh air that will leave you inspired, hopeful, and energized for working for “thy kingdom come” today. As Alisha says, “I think we actually have the capacity to save the world right now. We don’t have to wait until the return. We can just do it.” May it be so!

Quotations

“Programming is key because the program is often the bridge that meets the needs when policy fails us, and policy what gets people from the program in which they're doing well back into a society that can actually sustain their thriving.” (8:41)

“These were not mothers with a lack of innovation, a lack of ideas, or a lack of desire.

The only thing that was missing was that they needed someone to believe, someone to resource them and someone to get out of their way.” (15:10)

“I am of the strong belief that as we work and live and play in the margins that marginalized people know better than anyone what it is that they need. They don't need anybody to tell them that.” (16:42)

“It's really about how do we give people the opportunity to dream? And how can they dream safely? How can they live in a community where they can live out their dreams without worrying about them getting snatched from them by violence or bad policies?” (17:00)

“When we talk about the social, economic, and emotional thriving of not just Black single mothers, but of all people, we're talking about a notion of nothing missing, nothing broken, nothing or no one, or no policy or no social idea getting in the way of people experiencing the fullness of what God has caused us to experience.” (26:00)

“I think we actually have the capacity to save the world right now. We don't have to wait until the return. We can just do it.” (36:00)

“The breath of fresh air we need is a willingness to tell the real truth, to go against doctrine, denomination, and politics, and tell the real truth. And this is really inspired in particularly by GenZers. A lot of them don't go to church, but they're still the hands and feet of God. They really don't care about offending people as long as the offense gets us to the greater good.”

We discuss:

• Alisha’s journey to start The Current Project as the pandemic exposed so many of the gaps in marginalized communities. (5:23)
• How the pandemic ignited social entrepreneurship and Alisha’s own project which started with a virtual economic and mental health wellness group. (6:23)
• Programming and policy must complement each other for people to thrive. (8:41)
• The Current Project grew out of a survey of 230 moms in East Harlem and a promise she made to God. (9:51)
• The survey revealed Black single mothers who were very clear about their purpose and goals and only in need of resources and support. (13:57) 
• Along with resources we must create safe places for people to dream and imagine what’s possible. (17:00)
• The financial sacrifice and leap of faith Alisha made to start The Current Project. (17:32)
• Overcoming an oppressive theology of shame to get to a place of thriving. (21:47)
• The core of The Current Project's work is to move from surviving to thriving, to experience the fullness of what God wants us to experience. (25:13)
• The Current Project’s cohort model which creates a shared space for moms to be honest about their experiences and be seen, heard, and supported. (27:46)
• Alisha’s God-sized dreams which include living communities for single moms and galvanizing information to influence program and policies that sustain thriving. (29:50)
• The need to serve moms who are earning too much for the social safety net but not enough to economically thrive. (30:59)
• The breath of fresh air in the church today is the willingness to tell the real truth, about what is possible in the world. (39:00)

About 

Rev. Alicia Gordon is an awarded teacher, faith leader and social strategist whose work intersects social advocacy and culture. She's the founder and executive director of The Current Project, a nonprofit organization committed to closing social and economic gaps for Black single mothers, blending strategic programming and policy to lengthen the runway for thriving. Alisha focuses on helping Black single mothers get small businesses off the ground through financial support and training, so they live into their dreams and create space for economic stability and social liberation.

Prior to the current project, Alisha served with United Methodist women, now known as United Women in Faith, and was Executive Minister of programs at the historic Riverside Church in the city of New York, where she led innovative strategic programming. She's also brought a lens of moral and social advocacy to her work as the director for faith-based initiatives for national and city-wide political campaigns. 

Alisha earned her Bachelor of English degree from Spelman College and a Master of Divinity degree from the Candler School of Theology at Emory University. Her work has been featured in national publications and media outlets, including Gray Television Washington Bureau, Parents, and WomanEvolve Podcast. Alicia was awarded Emory University's distinguished Top 40 under 40 in 2019 and is a member of the alumni Board of Candler School of Theology.

Show Notes

Rev. Alicia Gordon is an awarded teacher, faith leader and social strategist whose work intersects social advocacy and culture. She's the founder and executive director of The Current Project, a nonprofit organization committed to closing social and economic gaps for Black single mothers, blending strategic programming and policy to lengthen the runway for thriving. Alisha focuses on helping Black single mothers get small businesses off the ground through financial support and training, so they live into their dreams and create space for economic stability and social liberation.

This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.

To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination Youtube. 

Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

When Rev. Tyler Sit set out to plant a church in Minneapolis in 2015, he began by listening. He walked every neighborhood in the city to listen for God’s dreams and discern where God wanted him to plant a church. He listened to neighbors over meals to hear what kind of church they would want to be a part of. What emerged was a church led by BIPOC leaders focused on eco-justice, community organizing, and centering marginalized voices in the community. New City Church gets its name from Revelation 21 which describes a heaven where God lives in a new city where all tribes all welcomed, there is no more violence, and the earth is renewed. Tyler’s book is “Staying Awake: The Gospel for Changemakers.” This conversation will open your eyes and re-energize you for the change making work of the gospel in your context.

Quotations

“Innovation is born out of the innate Holy Spirit momentum that is already present among people in the neighborhood. The church is just there to hurry it along and keep people on board.” (11:42)

“If what we're doing as a church doesn't resonate with the felt visceral experience of the people in our neighborhoods, the people who are right in front of us, then what are we doing?” (14:40)

“The idea with centering marginalized voices is we want the people who are the most oppressed by society, the most neglected by society to be able to start, stop, and steer the conversation.” (16:56)

“We're entrusting the marginalized folks in our community to steer the conversation, away from what is maybe most important to the dominant culture and toward what might is most important to people who are oppressed by the dominant culture.”(17:45)

“I would encourage church leaders to consider what happens if the next international racial awakening happens in your front door?” (23:10)

“We need a separate sandbox for innovation where different rules apply. Where we have a dashboard of accountability metrics defined by planters and their communities, not just nickels and noses.” (40:35)

“There is no mechanism of social change or personal transformation that doesn't require organizing of a lot of people together. I think that organized religion is a requirement for social change today. It's a precondition for us to experience personal transformation and social transformation.” (44:30)

We discuss:

• Tyler’s innovative approach to ministry, focusing on solidarity and listening to the community. (7:43)
• Starting New City Church with a prayer walk through every neighborhood, paying close attention to each neighborhood’s needs. (8:46)
• Starting a multi-site church with a common mission and vision but specific to the neighborhood of each church. (13:12)
• How centering marginalized voices and entrusting them to steer the conversation is central to New City Church. (16:12)
• Being faithful in social movements instead of being in charge of them (19:05)
• How New City Church responded to the murder of George Floyd and how other churches can be faithful in social movements. (21:11)
• Centering marginalized voices means finding a new center of gravity for a community, not excluding anyone. (26:14)
• His book, Staying Awake: The Gospel for Changemakers was created to be useful to the people Tyler is ministry with. (29:01)
• The origins and mission of Intersect to support intersectional church planting for marginalized communities. (30:59)
• Realistic planning for funding ministry is key because it’s not enough just to have a great entrepreneurial idea. (33:43)
• The importance of institutional support from the Minnesota Annual Conference, Candler School of Theology, and different churches. (38:37)
• Organized religion is a requirement for social change today. (44:30)
• Launching The Grapevine Collective to provide capacity building and development for healing justice nonprofits. (45:31)

About 

Rev. Tyler Sit is the church planter and pastor of New City Church in Minneapolis, Minnesota, which has been featured in the New York Times, The Atlantic, Minnesota Public Radio, and more. He is the author of Staying Awake: The Gospel for Changemakers Tyler is also co-founder of Intersect Planting Network and of Grapevine Collective. Tyler earned a BS in Communication Studies from Boston University and a Master of Divinity from Candler School of Theology, and he has lived in four continents.  

Tyler has formal training as a prison chaplain, community organizer, and social entrepreneur. He is a lover of Minnesota and the son of a Chinese immigrant. When he is not at New City, you’ll find Tyler wandering around the Mississippi River. Learn more about Tyler at tylersit.com.

Show Notes

Rev. Tyler Sit is the church planter and pastor of New City Church in Minneapolis, Minnesota, which has been featured in the New York Times, The Atlantic, Minnesota Public Radio, and more. He is the author of Staying Awake: The Gospel for Changemakers. Tyler is also co-founder of Intersect Planting Network and of Grapevine Collective. Tyler earned a BS in Communication Studies from Boston University and a Master of Divinity from Candler School of Theology, and he has lived in four continents. Learn more about Tyler at tylersit.com.

This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.

Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

“This place makes me feel human again” is a phrase often heard at Galveston Central Church from people at radically different ends of the socioeconomic spectrum. Being a part of the community grounds people in the truth that they belong to each other. It is not too much to say that this conversation with Rev. Michael Gienger will make you feel human again. We talk with Michael about the church’s transformation from transactional ministry to relational ministry, the systemic impact the congregation is having on the city’s approach to homelessness, the improbable friendships that are probable at Central, and the fruit of scrappiness that churches are discovering as they try ministry in new ways. What you’ll hear from Michael is not just an inspired vision for being the church; you will also experience his authentic love for Jesus and tenacity for the poor that will leave you filled with real hope for what God is doing right now in and through leaders and congregations. Glory be!

Quotations

“It just became very obvious that with our little teeny tiny church we were never going to be able to do big things that God had in store for us unless we chose to partner with other organizations and utilize their gifts and graces. And our name didn't need to be on everything.” (15:23)

“What Central has done really well is fostering improbable friendships. Really what's happening here is we’re getting out of a transactional model, a social service model, that's based on hierarchies of the haves and the have nots.” (16:52)

“Our kitchen feeds hundreds of people every week, but when you walk into the kitchen I don't think you can tell who's somebody who slept on the beach last night, who's a UTMB student, and who's a congregant that showed up.” (18:49)

“We have this wonderful mix of people that are all serving together, that are learning from each other and are starting with what's right with you rather than what's wrong with you. We're not trying to fix people, we're just trying to have this tenacious solidarity with each other.” (19:02)

“It's hard to follow Jesus to live the full life that God's called us to if you don't have access to medical care, or if you don't have access to food or whatever else you need.” (22:01)

“My role is to help people come along and understand just a different way of being in the world. I’m convinced when people are met with that kind of love, when they get to see their neighbor up close, that’s really where transformation happens.” (29:03)

“If we're going to be in solidarity with the divine, it means solidarity with the poorest among us because this seems to be where God shows up.” (38:15)

We discuss:

• The journey that led Michael to Galveston Central Church and his innovative approach to ministry. (7:10)
• The challenges of restarting a church that had been around for 130 years that is averse to change and doesn’t have many resources. (9:50)
• Reopening Galveston Central Church with an eye for who they hadn't been in ministry with before. (12:10)
• Accomplishing what God had in store for the church required partnering with other organizations and not worrying about who gets credit. (15:19)
• Michael’s innovative approach to ministry, including fostering friendships, moving away from a transactional model, and partnering with other organizations. (16:28)
• Flattening power dynamics with monthly listening sessions to really understand the community’s needs and following their lead to meet those needs. (17:41)
• Central’s innovative clinic where the patients are in charge and the doctors and nurses and social workers and others who come are the guests. (19:40)
• Starting by caring for the whole person, weaving together their spiritual lives with their “actual” lives as a way to deepen their relationship with God. (21:11)
• Flipping hierarchies by moving from a model of believe first and then you can belong to belong first and the belief will come. (23:28)
• How people on all demographic sides at Central have told him that being at Central makes them “feel human again.” (26:01)
• The challenge of balancing their innovative ministry with expectations of the denomination and the neighborhood. (27:42)
• All the innovative ways they are finding to fund ministry, relying on the ways they are truly embedded in their community and being entrepreneurial. (29:57)
• The power of storytelling and how in addition to being pastor he is also chief story collector. (33:32)
• Sources of hope and creativity amidst all the many challenges the church has faced over the last three years. (41:44)

About Michael Gienger

Rev. Michael Gienger, a community organizer and changemaker, is pastor at Galveston Central Church in Galveston, Texas and an ordained elder in the Texas Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church. He received his undergraduate degree in Religion, concentrating in Christian Ethics, from Baylor University, and his Master of Divinity from Perkins School of Theology at Southern Methodist University. Michael is a co-founder of Galveston Housing Plus, a cofounding board member of Galveston CoCare, and a Curricula and Community Consultant for Project Curate.

Galveston Central Church is a hybrid church plant/revitalization that is making space for hopeful skeptics and the spiritually homeless through a generous orthodoxy and focus on justice ministries. Since Michael joined Central in 2014, Central has transformed from a dying congregation to a thriving community. In addition to re-planting the church itself, Michael has been able to establish smaller "new faith communities" within the larger Central structure, including the Couch Surfers - a weekly surfing group. Michael helps congregations think through new ways of engaging with people outside of their community through nontraditional, creative, contextual expressions of "church."

Show Notes

Rev. Michael Gienger is pastor at Galveston Central Church in Galveston, Texas. He is an ordained elder in the Texas Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church. He received his undergraduate degree in Religion, concentrating in Christian Ethics, from Baylor University, and his Master of Divinity from Perkins School of Theology at Southern Methodist University. Michael is a co-founder of Galveston Housing Plus, a cofounding board member of Galveston CoCare, and a Curricula and Community Consultant for Project Curate.

This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.

Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes.

Expanding imagination for ministry can happen when you employ the FISHing differently framework developed by today’s inspired guest and 2023 Locke Innovative Leader, Rev. Dr. Sidney WIlliams. As the saying goes: “what got us here won’t get us there.” Instead of focusing purely on the financial capital needed to fund ministry, Sidney invites us to FISH differently than we ever have before, and harness the power of Faith capital, Intellectual capital, Social capital, and Human capital. If you are like the disciples who are tired of catching few fish, this episode will make you want to get back in the boat and try again with a Jesus-led and Spirit-driven invitation to fish differently for the sake of the kingdom.

Quotations

“Storytelling is a form of pastoral care. To get people to do things differently, they have to know you know their story, so that before we write the next chapter in this journey together, you know how we got here.” (12:37)

“Churches that really excel in making an impact in their communities have created a safe space where people feel like their ideas will be heard and their differences are nurtured.” (17:15)

“We've got pastors and bishops and church leaders and lay leaders who are focused on budgets and money as if that's the goal rather than the harvest. What I try to teach and preach is there is no shortage of money, but we have to focus on solving problems.” (25:47)

“It's less about fixing people and more about asking, God, how can I partner with the people closest to the pain?” (29:18)

“Greatness is not about how great the speech you give, how big the crowd you assemble, how much power you assemble in your community organizing. Greatness is what's replicable.” (40:30)

“If we kind of blame the system it can almost give us a reason not to do the work as opposed to knowing we are a part of the system and asking how we can bring about justice and equity and mercy and love and grace and hope and those things that God is calling us to be.” (44:35)

“Fishing differently is learning how to thread to needle in a way that you can put together a tapestry, a cloth of different fabrics that would probably never come together on their own and threading that fabric together in a way that comfort gives warmth and comfort to the people in our community who need it most.” (47:48)

We discuss:

• Sidney’s journey from Wall Street to Fishing differently. (5:36)
• The FISHing Differently framework and how Sidney developed it. (9:54)
• Healing and pastoral care through storytelling. (12:37)
• Churches are part of the ecosystem that God has put in place. (17:36)
• Discerning purpose and measuring impact of a congregation. (23:54)
• Solving problems, finding funding, and partnering with communities. (28:31)
• How Sidney led the church to rebuild and reimagine ministry. (30:09)
• Partnerships to sustain ministry. (35:25)
• Changing systems from within and working with flawed systems. (39:28)
• Why calling everyone to a common table matters today. (47:05)

About Sidney Williams

Rev. Dr. Sidney Williams, a social impact advisor and community builder, is President & CEO of Crossing Capital Group and Senior Pastor of Bethel AME Church in Morristown, New Jersey. Sidney is the author of Morning Meditations: 100 Days to Believing You’re Successful and Fishing Differently: Ministry Formation in the Marketplace. Through his FISHing Differently framework, he helps churches and nonprofits engage with impact investors to fund ministries that accelerate sustained thriving in underfinanced communities. 

Through his 30 year corporate and community development experience, Sidney has participated in over $10 billion in public equity and debt offerings, including working for leading Wall Street firms in New York City and helping to start several companies. Since 2005, Pastor Sidney has been training leaders of faith communities using his FISHing Differently framework. In addition to providing leadership development training for local churches, Pastor Sidney is an adjunct professor at Drew Theological Seminary and a Senior Lecturer at Payne Theological Seminary in Wilberforce, Ohio. He has also lectured in graduate business programs and taught corporate executives from Asia, Europe and the United States.

His greatest joys in life include spending time with family, traveling, meeting new people, cooking, and learning how to greet people in their native tongue.

Show Notes

Rev. Dr. Sidney Williams, a social impact advisor and community builder, is President & CEO of Crossing Capital Group and Senior Pastor of Bethel AME Church in Morristown, New Jersey. Sidney is the author of Morning Meditations: 100 Days to Believing You’re Successful and Fishing Differently: Ministry Formation in the Marketplace. Through his FISHing Differently framework, he helps churches and nonprofits engage with impact investors to fund ministries that accelerate sustained thriving in underfinanced communities.

This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.

Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes.

Why do we innovate? The goal is never innovation itself. As Rev. Dr. Kenda Creasy Dean says, “The goal is always loving people well.” This conversation is packed with insight and wisdom that gets to the heart of why innovation matters. We often feel pressure to innovate in big ways that make things bigger, faster, stronger but Kendra reminds us that the innovation present in the incarnation was smaller, slower, and more vulnerable. How can we cultivate a balance between prayerfully listening and holy impatience so that we meet people where they are and love them well? This conversation ignited our imagination for innovation in ministry–we can’t wait for you to hear it!

Quotations

“We know we’re supposed to love our neighbor, but we don’t always know how to love well.” (8:29)

“Social innovation is a way of making change that keeps human relationships at the center. We are creating new ways to relate to one another that are helpful and life giving and dignity restoring.” (11:38)

“We don’t have to go out and look for people who need ministry. We just look around and figure out how God has called us to be Christ’s envoys in that setting.” (13:49)

 “We don’t want to make our goal innovation. We want to make our goal loving people well.” (16:03)

“We often think about innovation as helping things get bigger, faster, and stronger. But in the incarnation, God got more limited. God got smaller, slower, and more vulnerable.” (25:18)

“The innovation we are behind is about slowing things down, breaking things apart, making people more human and vulnerable.” (25:26)

“The point is to disrupt and to re-enter our large systems with the perspective of love. There’s nothing more disruptive than sacrificial love.” (27:45)

“There's nothing that gives me more hope than the young leaders who are out there. They have holy impatience in spades. They will make a hundred mistakes. They will jump the gun, and they will be eager and in their own way.  They are completely smitten with God and with the people who God has put on their path. It's really hard not to be hopeful when you get to work with young leaders.” (38:36)

We discuss:

• Owen Ross shares what he means by “every church planting” (4:43)

• Kenda Creasy Dean on the point of innovation (10:27)

• Where the focus of the church needs to be (14:02)

• How innovation is connected with loving people well (17:30)

• The two things Kenda is hearing from leaders in the church right now (18:42)

• The role of connection and permission in innovation (21:18)

• Leading ministry that is responsive to the Spirit (22:32)

• Innovation that is centered in relationships and vulnerability (25:22)

• Learning to prayerfully listen (30:57)

• Discerning the difference God is calling us to make (33:44)

• Where Kenda draws the most hope (38:37)

About Kenda Creasy Dean

Kenda Creasy Dean is the Mary D. Synnott Professor of Youth, Church, and Culture at Princeton Theological Seminary and an ordained United Methodist pastor in the Greater New Jersey Annual Conference. In addition to teaching in practical theology, education, and formation, Dean works closely with Princeton’s Institute for Youth Ministry and the Farminary. Dean is the author of numerous books on youth, church, and culture, the best known of which includes Almost Christian: What the Faith of Our Teenagers Is Telling the American Church,  Practicing Passion: Youth and the Quest for a Passionate Church Eerdmans, and The Godbearing Life: The Art of Soul Tending for Youth Ministry with Ron Foster Upper Room, 1998).

Kenda has directed numerous grants on youth, innovation, and the church, including The Zoe Project (2017-2021), and was co-director with Harold Masback of The Joy and Adolescent Faith and Flourishing Project through Yale’s Center for Faith and Culture. In 2013, she co-founded Ministry Incubators, Inc., an educational and consulting group that supports Christian social innovation and entrepreneurial ministries. A graduate of Wesley Theological Seminary, she served as a pastor in Virginia, Maryland, and New Jersey and as a campus minister in suburban Washington, D.C. before receiving her PhD from Princeton Seminary in 1997.

Show Notes

Kenda Creasy Dean is the Mary D. Synnott Professor of Youth, Church, and Culture at Princeton Theological Seminary and an ordained United Methodist pastor in the Greater New Jersey Annual Conference. In addition to teaching in practical theology, education, and formation, Dean works closely with Princeton’s Institute for Youth Ministry and the Farminary. Dean is the author of numerous books on youth, church, and culture, the best known of which includes Almost Christian: What the Faith of Our Teenagers Is Telling the American Church.

This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. 

Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

The last episode of our season on formation begins with co-hosts Lisa Greenwood and Tim Soerens each sharing their top three takeaways from the season. Don’t miss this great season wrap up! 

And then: We couldn’t imagine a better conversation partner to end this season with than Jonathan Brooks, or as he’s better known, Pastah J, who offers a hopeful vision and powerful challenge for the church to lead the way out of these hard times: practice presence with all neighbors in all neighborhoods. “I don’t actually think that there are ever any God forsaken places,” Pastah J says, “but there are church forsaken places because it is the church that has decided to take all our gifts and talents, all that God gives us, our power, and reside in more comfortable spaces.” Rooted in scripture and grounded in theology, Pastah J reminds us that God is as interested in where people live as God is in whether they will go to heaven. Pastah J invites us to engage our neighborhoods right now for God’s sake.

Quotations

“I cannot understand my faith apart from my own social location and context and the struggle of African Americans in this country.” (13:53)

“We need to think about how God feels about land, how God feels about place, how God feels about how we use spaces to bring him glory and cultivate the kingdom of God on earth.’ (16:24)

“Loving your neighborhood is as important as loving your neighbor.” (20:15)

“I don’t think God has forsaken my neighborhood. I think God is alive and well in my community, and if you come closer you’ll be able to see that.” (24:20)

“I don’t actually think that there are ever any God forsaken places, but there are church forsaken places because it is the church that has decided to take all our gifts and talents, all that God gives us, our power, and reside in more comfortable spaces.” (25:05)

“God is intimately concerned with where people eat, what people eat, where they live, how they’re educated, just as much as whether or not their soul will spend eternity in heaven.” (30:00)

“The truth is that every person and every place display both the glory of God and the brokenness of humanity.” (34:16)

“If you live in a place where the dominant narrative is that it’s beautiful, you as a Christian have a godly responsibility to expose the brokenness. And if you live in a place where brokenness and negativity is the dominant narrative, you have a godly responsibility to lift up the beauty there.” (36:24)

“Preach with power, teach with power, love in ways that you never have, don’t give up. Allow the truth of what we’ve experienced to be the wind that blows you forward.” (51:00)

We discuss:

• Tim and Lisa each share their top three takeaways from this season on formation (0:43)
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• Pastah J: how place impacts the way we live out our theology and formation (14:27)

• The pivotal moment Pastah J realized that his neighborhood and his church were intimately connected (18:45)

• The impact of the narrative of upward mobility on urban neighborhoods and how it leads to “continual disinvestment” (23:10)

• Jesus call us to be uncomfortable and to reinvest in some of the places we have run away from (25:35)

• We need to need make bifocal “Glory of God” and “Brokenness of Humanity” glasses to fully see the world the way God does (32:00)

• Discipleship and formation happen in relationship to each other and to the places we live (39:30)

• God’s gifts and goodness exist for us in community with each other (44:42)

• Words of hope for everyone doing the work of God (49:35)

About Jonathan Brooks

Jonathan Brooks, or Pastah J as he is affectionately known, is a lifelong resident of Chicago, IL and currently serves as Co-Lead Pastor at Lawndale Christian Community Church in the North Lawndale Neighborhood.  He is also Board Chair of the Parish Collective. He previously served as Senior Pastor at Canaan Community Church in the West Englewood neighborhood for fifteen years. As an educator on many different levels and a firm believer in investing in your local community, Jonathan has a deep desire to impress this virtue on the students and young people in his congregation, classroom and community. His ministry focuses on youth development, holistic health, college scholarships, art and music training as well as restorative justice practices and care for the incarcerated and their families.

Pastah J is a sought after speaker, writer, artist and community activist. He has contributed to numerous blogs, articles and books, and his most recent book is Church Forsaken: Practicing Presence in Neglected Neighborhoods.

Show Notes

Jonathan Brooks, or Pastah J, is Co-Lead Pastor at Lawndale Christian Community Church in the North Lawndale Neighborhood. An artist and community activist, he is Board Chair of the Parish Collective and author of Church Forsaken: Practicing Presence in Neglected Neighborhoods. Learn more about him and his work at pastahj.com.

This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.

Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Rosa Lee Harden, Episcopal priest and serial entrepreneur, says that a conversation about generosity should bring about the best in us. This conversation certainly does just that! Each minute with Rosa Lee is inspired and inspiring. Rosa Lee shares her journey of faith that led her to bring together her desire to follow Jesus with her financial savvy and to start SOCAP (Social Capital Markets) and Neighborhood Economics, both dedicated to bringing capital to neighborhoods that cannot normally access it and expanding the reach of impact investing. This conversation invites us to think deeply about how we invest our money. We may be born into a consumer economy, but we can think and live better and more in line with the economy God imagines. Rosa Lee’s authentic, wholehearted, and brilliant presence shines throughout this conversation and challenges us to let our faith formation change how we see and use our financial resources. 

Quotations

“I cared more about following Jesus than loving Jesus. I was always wondering why did Jesus do something and how did that impact who we are today.” (5:58)

“Impact investing, people investing in change, is a response to a moral hunger in the market.” (14:30)

“Everybody knows, you scratch an impact investor and you have a faith story.” (15:15)

“A conversation about generosity should bring about the best in us instead of the worst in us.” (17:30)

“The people who live upstream from us determine the quality of the water in our river, and we determine the quality of the water in the river of the people downstream. So we are in it together.” (22:28)

“When you dig into the traditional bank way of doing things and the traditional accounting way of doing things, folks on the ground, folks in the trenches, folks who are in need, know a whole lot more about how to manage money effectively than we do.” (32:57)

“We want to open the eyes of people in the pews to get rid of that idea that when we're talking about being more generous, we’re not coming after your stuff, we’re saying that your stuff can participate in this new economy. Your stuff can be generative in a way that you actually don't lose anything and everybody gains.” (34:10)

We discuss:

• Key moments in her formation as a follower of Jesus (5:38)
• How she became a leader at the intersection of faith and finance (8:30)
• Being called to become a priest while running the Mississippi Business Journal (10:08)
• Keeping meaning alive as a motive for impact investing (12:00)
• Jesus and our understanding of money (15:30)
• Why it’s so hard to talk about money from a biblical, theological frame (16:30)
• The challenge of preaching about money (19:00)
• Biblical and theological threads that have guided her work (20:53)
• Her work with Neighborhood Economics (24:00)
• Building innovative loans funds by listening to people on the ground who are closest to the challenges (33:00)
• The relationship between Christian formation and our every-day relationship with money (38:47)
• Paying attention to the ways in which how you spend your money in your community can improve your community (43:19)
• How to think differently despite the fact that we are born into a consumer economy (47:30)
• How she’s being formed currently and how that is making a difference for her and in her work (49:52)

About Rosa Lee Harden

The Rev. Canon Rosa Lee Harden is an Episcopal priest and self-described serial-entrepreneur. She is executive producer of Neighborhood Economics, and a founder of SOCAP, both dedicated to bringing capital to neighborhoods that cannot normally access it and expanding the reach of impact investing.

Her vocational life has included being publisher of weekly newspapers, trade journals, a business journal and CEO of a ‘Silicon Valley’ start-up. She was ordained as an Episcopal Priest in 2000 and served as Vicar of Holy Innocents Episcopal Church in San Francisco for ten years. She also served as the Canon for Money and Meaning at All Soul’s Episcopal Cathedral in Asheville, NC. In 2003, she developed ‘via media,’ a video curriculum about basic theology for the Episcopal church, at a time when the church was under great stress. Purchased by more than 1000 churches, it brought healing and connection across the denomination. In 2008, she and her husband, Kevin Jones, launched the global SOCAP (Social Capital Markets) conference, the conference at the intersection of money and meaning. In its 11th year, SOCAP18 brought more than 3,000 people from more than 60 countries to San Francisco to accelerate the good economy. 

Now, Rosa Lee is leading F+F: Reimagining God’s Economy, a conference to enable the varied and disconnected tribes of the Christian church to learn a language for making theological sense of money and its uses. 

Show Notes

Rev. Canon Rosa Lee Harden, Episcopal priest and serial entrepreneur, is executive producer of Neighborhood Economics, a founder of SOCAP and a leader of F+F: Reimagining God’s Economy

This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.

Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Mark DeYmaz, founder of Mosaix Church and the Mosaix Global Network, passionately articulates how the multi-ethnic church is the visible sign of the Gospel. In this wide-ranging conversation, Mark shares the origin story of Mosaix Church and his conviction that “if a people group or an individual is missing, then we’re actually missing part of the beauty of what God is revealing.” From a gripping football metaphor to scriptural analysis and an in-depth reflection about the economic and demographic challenges for churches today, this fast-moving, hopeful, and challenging conversation is not to be missed! 

Quotations

“Formation isn’t a Christian idea. It’s a human one. All of us are always being formed.” (1:14)

“In the New Testament, men and women, Jews and Gentiles, rich and poor all walk, work and worship God together as one, in local churches.” (11:59)

“If the Kingdom of Heaven is not segregated, why on earth is the church?”(14:12)

“We live in a Matthew 5:16 century” (19:49)

“Jesus didn’t say let them hear your good words. He said let them see your good works.” (19:50)

“In the 21st century you have to get people comfortable living with tension.” (35:01)

"So it's not about size, it's about influence. The greater diversity, the greater your influence, comfort versus tension in the 20th century. You make people feel comfortable at church in the 21st. You gotta get people comfortable with tension, right? Because that's where the unity is. And the, the, the picture of that to me is Jesus with his arms outstretched dying on the cross, lifted up to draw all people himself."

“We are called to be ministers of reconciliation and ambassadors of peace.” (41:45)

“We have to stand on our faith, our stewardship, our love, and just go for it.” (43:28)

We Discuss:

• The complicated relationship between what’s happening in the church today and the role of formation (2:35)
• We have to consistently ask who we are seeking to become and what is asked of us. (3:24)
• If we are not intentional about how we are formed, we will default to being formed by the influences around us. (4:08)
• Starting and growing Mosaic Church following a New Testament model (9:00)
• Mosaic Church functions like a football team – different teams all working together to meet the particular challenges of its congregation (16:35)
• How Mosaic Church blends spiritual, nonprofit and for-profit strategies to thrive (19:11)
• The credit that Mosaic Church gets is to the glory of God (20:51)
• Their drive to advance the cause of Christ by meeting the needs of their community led them to innovate their business model (23:30)
• Metrics for the church in the 21st century (30:17)
• We have to show pastors how to stop just managing decline (31:14)
• In the 21st century the key purpose of the church is to help people get comfortable living in tension (35:01)
• Regardless of the challenges, and emboldened by the Gospel, we have to act out of faith and optimism (43:28)

About Mark DeYmaz

Mark DeYmaz is a thought-leading writer and recognized champion of the Multi-Ethnic Church Movement. Mark planted the Mosaic Church of Central Arkansas in 2001 where he continues to serve as Directional Leader. In 2004, he co-founded the Mosaix Global Network, and currently serves as its president and the convener of the National Multi-ethnic Church Conference which occurs every three years. He has written several books, including his most recent, The Coming Revolution in Church Economics, as well as Disruption: Repurposing the Church to Redeem the Community. His book Leading a Healthy Multi-Ethnic Church was a finalist for a Christianity Today Book of the Year Award in 2008.

Show Notes

More information about Mark DeYmaz can be found on his website.

Mark DeYmaz is the author of several books including The Coming Revolution in Church Economics, Disruption: Repurposing the Church to Redeem the Community and Leading a Healthy Multi-Ethnic Church

This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.

Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?