As many jurisdictions make preparations to reopen, there are several things that are key to the new hopes of finding a way forward to live with COVID-19. Two of the keys that have been touted by governments and public health officials are contact tracing and immunity passports. The first has been an important activity in the fight against virulent illnesses for years, but the big change now is that while it's traditionally been handled by humans, COVID-19 just moves too fast for that to work, which is why a high tech app approach is being used in some countries, and in development in several more around the world. That said, advocates warn that the public healthcare gains will come up against privacy considerations. Immunity Passports are potentially even more controversial, as the implications involved with these documents can lead to the type of inequality depicted in dystopian science fiction novels. To discuss both of these ideas and efforts, Raju Mudhar is joined by Sandro Contenta, a feature reporter at the Toronto Star, who has recently done a deep dive into both of these topics.