On the Gist, Trump steering away from the rocks for once.

In the interview, Mike talks with John Dickerson of CBS News about what it takes to be a good American leader. They discuss how Trump's personal habits have led him to be unprepared for the coronavirus crisis, why Americans are addicted to the presidency, and what might happen to the concept of American leadership if he gets a second term in office. Dickerson's upcoming books is The Hardest Job in the World: The American Presidency.

In the spiel, FDR's fireside chats.

Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices