In Retrospect with Susie Banikarim and Jessica Bennett

Long before Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese were shattering records and making national headlines, there was the 2007 Rutgers team. The New Jersey players had a Cinderella season, powering their way to the Final Four in an extraordinary triumph. But instead of being celebrated, the young women were attacked – dismissed and belittled in an infamous on-air slur by the popular radio host Don Imus. In this episode, Susie and Jess revisit the moment which sparked a national firestorm – and a much-needed conversation about racism, sexism and women’s sports. They also welcome two women who were there: former Rutgers captain and WNBA star Essence Carson, and the journalist Jemele Hill, who reported on the story in real time.

GUESTS: 

• Essence Carson, former WNBA star, Rutgers captain and current creative executive
• Jemele Hill, Emmy award-winning journalist

FOR MORE:

• The Imus Fallout: Who Can Say What? (Time, 2007)
• Trash Talk Radio (by Gwen Ifill NYT, 2007)
• Take A Stand Against Indecency And Cruelty (by Jemele Hill, ESPN) 

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For a certain generation of girls, the trading of lip gloss was akin to sharing secrets — there was hierarchy, and subtlety, and hidden messages all in one. In this mini episode, Jess reminisces about middle school makeup rituals and what they can tell us about female friendship, while Susie wonders how it’s possible to be so nonchalant about the spreading of germs (lol!).

FOR MORE:

• Meghan Markle, Kate Middleton and… Lip Gloss? (by Jessica Bennett, NYT)
• Makeup As Meditation, Skincare As 'Girl Therapy' (by Jessica Defino, Substack)

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It was the iconic and irreverent magazine that shaped a generation of 90s girls, teaching them about pop culture, fashion and feminism. Sassy was accessible and relatable, willing to openly talk about taboo subjects like sex and teen suicide when nobody else would. In this episode, we chat with the founding editor and perennial cool older sister Jane Pratt about why Sassy still resonates for so many nearly 40 years later. 

FOR MORE:

• My Totally Normal Addiction To Buying Teen Magazines (NYT, 2021)
• How Sassy Is Tavi Gevinson? (NYT, 2011)

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You asked, we answered! In this episode, Jess & Susie take a trip down memory lane — responding to “in retrospect” moments shared by listeners (you!). From a generation named after Jordan Catalano of “My So Called Life” to Brandy and Monica’s faux-feud in “The Boy Is Mine,” here are some moments from the 90s that you can’t stop thinking about.

FOR MORE:

• Meet Generation Catalano (Slate, 2011)
• Monica on 25 Years of ‘The Boy Is Mine’ (The Hollywood Reporter, 2023)

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Exactly 25 years ago, the blockbuster teen comedy “American Pie” launched the term “MILF” into the stratosphere — that is, Mom I’d Like to F*ck. Jennifer Coolidge, who played Stifler’s Mom, is perhaps still the most famous MILF in America. But… where did that term really come from? Jess and Susie uncover the MILF’s true origin story and how it was shaped by the most raunchy teen sex comedy of our time.

FOR MORE: 

• Review: The Road to Manhood, Paved in Raunchy Jokes and Pie (NYT, 1999)
• American Pie at 20: The Notorious Pie Scene from Every Angle (NYT, 2019) 
• Don’t Use This Acronym: MILF in the OED (blog post by Laurel Sutton)
• At the Super Bowl of Linguistics, May the Best Word Win (by Jessica, NYT, reporting from the annual linguistics convention in 2015)

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And what does that even mean? In this episode, Susie and Jess unpack how ageism has been used to diminish women for generations and their own complicated feelings about aging.

FOR MORE: 

• I Refuse the Graceful Slide Into Cultural Irrelevance (by Jessica, NYT)
• Don Lemon Regrets Calling Nikki Haley ‘Past Her Prime’ (AP)
• Michelle Yeoh Is Right – A Woman Is Never ‘Past Her Prime’ (The Guardian)
• E. Jean Carroll and the Audacity of a Woman ‘Past Her Prime’ (by Jessica, NYT)

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What did a generation of strivers learn about what it means to get ahead from “The Devil Wears Prada”? Was Miranda Priestly, the famed and famously demanding fashion editor at the center of the movie – in many ways the original “girlboss” – an aspirational or cautionary figure? In this episode, Susie and Jess revisit the blockbuster 2006 film and talk about their own careers and changing relationships to ambition.

GUEST:

• Samhita Mukhopadhyay, former executive editor at Teen Vogue and author of the upcoming book, The Myth of Making It

FOR MORE: 

• The Devil Wears Prada Oral History (Entertainment Weekly)
• The Demise of the Girlboss (New York Magazine)
• The Girlboss Has Left the Building (The Atlantic)

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How do you turn the classic raunchy teen comedy on its head? Emma Seligman, writer and director of the critically acclaimed, lesbian fight club film, “Bottoms,” and the claustrophobic, indie hit, “Shiva Baby,” talks movie-making, her early aughts inspiration, queer representation on screen and how it’s changing. Guest hosted by Sharon Attia, our researcher and associate producer, who also happens to be Emma’s best friend. 

GUEST: 

• Emma Seligman, writer-director of “Bottoms” and “Shiva Baby” 

FOR MORE:

• Watch “Bottoms” 
• Watch “Shiva Baby”  
• Why Emma Seligman Decided to Make a Movie About a Queer Fight Club (New Yorker)
• The Brains Behind the New Comedy, Bottoms (New York Magazine) 

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In part one, Jess and Susie revisited a famous episode of The Golden Girls, in which Blanche mistakes the word “lesbian” for “Lebanese.” (“Not ‘Lebanese,’ Blanche. Lesbian!”) Nearly 40 years later, the IKYKY of calling lesbians “Lebanese” lives on – as does the gay legacy of The Golden Girls. Jess and Susie talk to the originator of that joke about the role that The Golden Girls played – and still plays – in gay culture, as well as how that episode fits into the history of LGBTQ representation on screen. Plus: a lesbian-lebanese surprise!

GUESTS:

• Maya Salam, culture editor at The New York Times
• Drew Mackie, cohost of Gayest Episode Ever

FOR MORE:

• At Long Last, Lesbian Portrayals On Screen Are More Complex (NYT)
• Mean Girls’ Janice Ian Was a Lesbian (After Ellen)
• Thank You for Being a Friend: A Gay Golden Girls History (Frontiers)
• Blanche’s Brother is a Homo, & More Gay GG Moments (Gayest Episode Ever)

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“Not ‘Lebanese,’ Blanche. Lesbian!” The line originated on The Golden Girls in 1986, after a lesbian friend of Dorothy’s came to visit and Blanche mistook her for “Lebanese.” A decade later, Ellen DeGeneres riffed on that same play on words, coming out as “Lebanese” on the Rosie O’Donnell Show shortly before publicly coming out. “Lebanese” lesbians would go on to appear in Mean Girls, on Glee, and even RuPaul’s Drag Race. In this episode, Jess and Susie get to the bottom of what made that joke so enduring… and talk to an actual Lebanese lesbian about what it meant to her.

GUESTS:

• Maya Salam, culture editor at The New York Times
• Drew Mackie, cohost of the Gayest Episode Ever podcast

FOR MORE:

• Dorothy’s Friend is a Lesbian (Gayest Episode Ever)
• The Very Slow Rise of Lesbianism On Screen (Maya Salam, NYT)
• In 1986, Golden Girls Created the Most Enduring Lesbian Joke on TV (Autostraddle)
• Blanche’s Brother is a Homo, and More Gay Golden Girls’ Moments (Gayest Episode Ever)

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