Ahana Datta Fasel became the British government’s first ethical hacker in 2014, testing vulnerabilities in computer systems and networks that hackers could potentially exploit. She was only 23, but that gave her an early look at state-sponsored cyber intrusions, which have of course grown more serious and sophisticated. Today, her book, Full Stack Spies: Cyber Espionage in the Age of US-China Competition, explores China’s business of spying online. She joins Sasha from London to talk about the competition, vanities, and betrayals between hackers, tech companies, and the government, all through some of Beijing’s most destructive military and civilian cyber operations.

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This show is brought to you by N2K Networks, Goat Rodeo, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. This episode was produced by Flora Warshaw and the team at Goat Rodeo. At the International Spy Museum, Mike Mincey and Memphis Vaughan III are our video editors. Emily Rens is our graphic designer. Joshua Troemel runs our SPY social media. Amanda Ohlke is our Director of Adult Education and Mira Cohen is the Vice President of Programs.