In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ Gustafson sits down with Brian Brown, Chief Financial Officer and Treasurer at Rocket Companies, to unpack how Rocket has built a differentiated, full-stack fintech business far beyond its mortgage roots. The conversation explores Rocket’s approach to long-tail monetization, the strategic importance of mortgage servicing, and how recapture rates become a durable competitive advantage in volatile rate environments. Brian shares lessons from leading complex M&A transactions, managing a business that reacts in real time to macro signals, and building a finance organization that prioritizes storytelling, strategy, and cross-functional thinking over pure accounting prowess. The result is a wide-ranging discussion on what traditional financial services companies can teach modern SaaS and fintech leaders about metrics, brand, and disciplined execution.

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SPONSORS:

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LINKS:

Brian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-brown-3aa37a8a/

Rocket Companies: https://rocket.com/

CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/

Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com

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RELATED EPISODES:

From $500M Losses to $500M Profits: The CFO Who Helped Major League Baseball Win off the Field

https://youtu.be/7xw9qY2w5C4

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TIMESTAMPS:

00:00:00 Preview and Intro

00:02:30 Sponsors — Sage Intacct | Mercury | RightRev

00:05:55 CJ’s Rocket Mortgage Fanboy Moment

00:07:13 How Rocket Mortgage Actually Makes Money

00:12:06 Investing in Brand Trust for Infrequent but High-Stakes Decisions

00:15:17 Mortgage Servicing as a Long-Term Relationship Engine

00:17:17 Sponsors — Tipalti | Aleph | Fidelity Private Shares

00:20:40 Why the Long Tail of Customer Relationships Is Underrated

00:23:01 Recapture Rate and Why Mortgage Loyalty Is Broken

00:25:23 Lower CAC Through Lifetime Value and Repeat Borrowers

00:30:55 Financial Storytelling as a CFO’s Real Job

00:33:03 Why CFOs Must Sell the Story, Not Just the Numbers

00:40:49 Public vs. Private M&A and Why Public Deals Are Harder

00:45:21 Redfin Acquisition Thesis and Top-of-Funnel Strategy

00:52:18 Being Swarmed by Merger Arb Funds Like Taylor Swift

00:55:18 How Rocket Forecasts in a Volatile Interest Rate Environment

00:58:04 Weekly Forecasting, Scenario Planning, and Avoiding Forecast Fatigue

01:00:32 Finance Teams as Business Consultants and Strategic Partners

01:02:23 Why CFOs Need a Seat at the Strategy Table

01:04:19 Long-Ass Lightning Round: A Leadership Mistake and Building Teams

01:05:58 Leadership Lessons on Team Size and Accountability

01:07:33 Advice to Younger Self and Slowing Down

01:08:49 Finance Software Stack and AI Tools

01:11:31 Lessons from Working with Dan Gilbert

01:16:58 Craziest Expense Story

01:17:55 Outro

#RunTheNumbersPodcast #CFOLeadership #FinanceStrategy #MergersAndAcquisitions #FinancialStorytelling

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