In this high-energy episode of Mostly Growth, CJ Gustafson, Kyle Poyar, and Ben Hillman dive into the hidden levers of SaaS growth and what truly separates startups that scale to $20M+ ARR from those that stall out. They explore eye-opening data from 6,500 companies, revealing how the best improve net retention, raise pricing, and re-engineer their revenue models over time. Alongside the metrics, there’s plenty of playful chaos—like a naming debate over “Yoshinobu Yamamoto Gustafson,” a rapid-fire game of “Founder or Pop Star,” and CJ’s accidental IPO embargo break. It’s part insight, part inside joke, and 100% for SaaS operators and C-suite climbers.

—

LINKS:

Mostly Metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com

CJ on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/

Growth Unhinged: https://www.growthunhinged.com/

Kyle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-poyar/

Slacker Stuff: https://www.slackerstuff.com/

Ben on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/slackerstuff/

https://www.growthunhinged.com/p/the-compounding-startup

https://www.growthunhinged.com/p/the-odds-of-making-it

https://www.superme.ai/kylepoyar?conversationId=VgDXTOl2Z89mW7UYXstU0b

https://a16z.com/anatomy-of-an-enterprise-platform-company/

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hhi.asp

https://navan.com/

https://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/navan-ipo-s1-breakdown

https://x.com/amendandpretend/status/1983588137453416763?s=46

https://x.com/ryan_c_walsh/status/1983705182371475630?s=46

https://www.reddit.com/r/TwinCities/comments/z6hxp8/how_much_are_people_paying_for_residential_snow/

—

RELATED EPISODES:

Getting fired 4 times made me a founder | Sam Jacobs of Pavilion

https://youtu.be/8X-JVOF-1A0

Why Founders Are Posting Sad Dinners

https://youtu.be/Zl6NSIHF2Gk

—

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00:00 Preview and Intro

00:01:55 Sponsors – Pulley & Metronome

00:04:25 Dodgers Banter & Baby Naming

00:05:38 Founder or Pop Star Game

00:07:50 ChartMogul Data & Growth Levers

00:08:30 Expansion, Upsell & Retention Discussion

00:15:53 Testing Kyle’s AI Avatar

00:17:07 CJ’s AI Self-Query & Beta Discussion

00:18:04 AI Use Cases & Knowledge Retention

00:22:03 Platform Debate & A16z Analysis

00:24:29 Herfindahl-Hirschman Index Explained

00:25:34 Platform Metrics & Valuation Upside

00:26:48 CrowdStrike, Datadog & Multi-Product Expansion

00:28:13 Core Systems of Record & AI’s Impact

00:29:49 Business Blunders – Navan IPO & Snowflake CRO

00:34:07 Snow Removal Pricing & Insurance Logic

00:35:56 Closing Remarks & Credits

—

SPONSORS:

Metronome is real-time billing built for modern software companies. Metronome turns raw usage events into accurate invoices, gives customers bills they actually understand, and keeps finance, product, and engineering perfectly in sync. That’s why category-defining companies like OpenAI and Anthropic trust Metronome to power usage-based pricing and enterprise contracts at scale. Focus on your product — not your billing. Learn more and get started at https://www.metronome.com

Pulley is the cap table management platform built for CFOs and finance leaders who need reliable, audit-ready data and intuitive workflows, without the hidden fees or unreliable support. Switch in as little as 5 days and get 25% off your first year: https://pulley.com/mostlymetrics

—

#MostlyGrowthPodcast #SaaSGrowth #StartupStrategy #B2BTech #RevenueRetention

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ Gustafson sits down with Sam Jacobs, Founder and CEO of Pavilion, the global community for GTM leaders. Sam shares how getting fired multiple times as a CRO led him to build a business rooted in belonging — one that monetized members first, prioritized intimacy over growth, and turned a Slack group into a multimillion-dollar company. He and CJ unpack the mechanics of community: the tradeoffs between exclusivity and expansion, why venture capital doesn’t always fit human-centered businesses, and how Pavilion balances pricing, curation, and access. They also explore the evolution of the GTM function — from the myth of the plug-and-play VP of Sales to how AI is reshaping RevOps, forecasting, and leadership. Finally, Sam reflects on building durable value beyond personal brand and what it really takes to scale trust as a product.

—

LINKS:

Sam Jacobs on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/

Company: https://www.joinpavilion.com/

CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222

Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com

—

RELATED EPISODES:

E120: What does the future of tech look like when it costs $0 to switch software?

https://www.youtube.com/live/Cpw2pkq-FXI?si=-0y0tcLTIlIbkmyO

CFOs: Want to Outmaneuver Your Competitors? Here’s the Jedi Mind Trick

https://youtu.be/Yte_fe1xF90?si=hVfgdd0Fg0PQuuoS

The Gross Margin Episode with Sarah Wang of a16z

https://youtu.be/72aP5ohBxvE

—

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00:00 Preview and Intro

00:03:05 Sponsors – Mercury, RightRev, and Tipalti

00:06:50 Pavilion, Community, and Go-to-Market Leadership

00:10:28 Career Tenure and Executive Turnover

00:12:55 Compensation Structure and Equity Negotiation

00:14:31 Building Wealth Through Equity

00:16:30 Sponsors – Aleph, Fidelity Private Shares, and Metronome

00:19:36 Managing Wealth, Lifestyle, and Longevity in Leadership

00:22:58 Founding Pavilion to Empower Operators

00:25:13 Taking Roles for Learning, Titles, and Leverage

00:28:47 Contrarian Executives, Team Dynamics, and Leadership Lessons

00:30:36 What Makes a Great VP of Sales

00:33:23 Revenue, Profitability, and Misaligned Incentives

00:35:08 Quota Setting, Forecasting, and Spreadsheet Pitfalls

00:39:07 AI in Sales and the Myth of the AI SDR

00:40:32 The Future of Playbooks in the Age of AI

00:43:38 The Dangers of AI and the Need for Humans in the Loop

00:45:27 Monetizing Pavilion – Memberships, Sponsors, and Pricing Strategy

00:49:30 Building Higher-Margin Community Businesses

00:57:46 Building a Personal Brand with Long-Term Value

01:01:52 Closing Credits and Outro

—

SPONSORS:

Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.com

RightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.

Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.

Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/run

Fidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.

Metronome is real-time billing built for modern software companies. Metronome turns raw usage events into accurate invoices, gives customers bills they actually understand, and keeps finance, product, and engineering perfectly in sync. That’s why category-defining companies like OpenAI and Anthropic trust Metronome to power usage-based pricing and enterprise contracts at scale. Focus on your product — not your billing. Learn more and get started at https://www.metronome.com

#RunTheNumbersPodcast #Finance #CommunityBuilding #Leadership #GoToMarket

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ Gustafson sits down with Teddy Collins, EVP of Finance at SeatGeek, who helped scale the company from its first in-house finance hire to a tech-forward finance team powering one of the most dynamic businesses in live events. Teddy shares what it was like leading finance through the pandemic when live events went dark overnight, how that period reshaped his approach to forecasting and uncertainty, and how SeatGeek is now using AI and machine learning to enhance planning accuracy and decision-making. He and CJ also dive into how finance can evolve from a cost center to a strategic partner, the toughest manual processes he’s eliminated, and where he sees the next big leap in the CFO tech stack. Finally, Teddy opens up about his rapid rise—four promotions in ten years—and offers practical advice on career growth, feedback, and building trust in a world where AI is redefining what “junior” really means.

—

LINKS:

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teddycollins/

Company: https://seatgeek.com/

CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222

Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com

—

RELATED EPISODES:

CFO of FloQast on Why Finance Teams are Data Curators

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00:00) Preview and Intro

(00:02:49) Sponsor – Metronome | Mercury | RightRev

(00:06:36) Joining SeatGeek and the Early Finance Journey

(00:08:05) Managing Finance When Live Events Went Dark

(00:10:23) Forecasting Through Uncertainty

(00:13:12) Building Systems and Processes from Scratch

(00:15:34) Sponsor – Tipalti | Aleph | Fidelity Private Shares

(00:18:06) Using AI and Machine Learning in Forecasting

(00:22:44) Build vs. Buy: SeatGeek’s Tech Philosophy

(00:26:31) Turning Finance into a Strategic Partner

(00:30:42) Killing Manual Processes and Automating Insights

(00:34:55) The Next Big Leap in the CFO Stack

(00:38:46) Leading Teams Through Change and Growth

(00:42:11) Talent, Tools, and the Future of Finance Roles

(00:46:07) Climbing the Ladder: Four Promotions in Ten Years

(00:49:50) Career Advice and Earning Trust in Fast-Growing Teams

(00:53:16) How AI Is Reshaping the Definition of “Junior”

(00:56:22) Lightning Round and Closing Thoughts

—

SPONSORS:

Today’s podcast is brought to you by Metronome. You just launched your new AI product. The new pricing page looks great. But behind it? Last-minute glue code, messy spreadsheets, and running ad-hoc queries to figure out what to bill. Customers get invoices they can’t understand. Engineers are chasing billing bugs. Finance can’t close the books. With Metronome, you hand it all off to the real-time billing infrastructure that just works—reliable, flexible, and built to grow with you. We turn raw usage events into accurate invoices, give customers bills they actually understand, and keep every team in sync in real time. Whether you’re launching usage-based pricing, managing enterprise contracts, or rolling out new AI services, Metronome does the heavy lifting so you can focus on your product, not your billing. That’s why some of the fastest-growing companies in the world, like OpenAI and Anthropic, run their billing on Metronome. Visit metronome.com to learn more.

Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.com

RightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.

Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.

Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/run

Fidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.

#RunTheNumbersPodcast #FinanceLeadership #CFOStack #AIForecasting #SeatGeek

Gross margins, GPUs, and the future of finance — this one’s for the metrics nerds. CJ sits down with Sarah Wang, General Partner at Andreessen Horowitz, to talk about what happens when the traditional SaaS playbook collides with AI. Sarah shares how legacy benchmarks like payback period and burn multiple start to break down in a world where compute, not headcount, drives costs. She explains why sky-high gross margins can actually be an orange flag, how finance leaders can think about resource allocation between engineers and GPUs, and why the most valuable finance teams today are deeply operational. They also unpack what it’s like partnering with AI-native founders, the evolution of pricing models as LLM costs drop, and whether we’ll see a private trillion-dollar company anytime soon.

—

LINKS:

on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-wang-59b96a7/

Company: https://a16z.com/

CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222

Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com

—

RELATED EPISODES:

996 Culture, Exploding AI Bills & SaaS Chaos

From Credit Karma to Notion: CFO Rama Katkar on Leading Finance Through Every Growth Stage

5,762 Job Applications. Zero Offers.

Thinking About Adding Payments to Your Software Product? Listen to This First!

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00:00) Preview and Intro

(00:02:40) Sponsors – Fidelity Private Shares, Mercury, RightRev

(00:05:50) Sarah Joins the Show

(00:06:06) The Future of Excel in the Age of AI

(00:08:24) Why Gross Margins Don’t Tell the Whole Story

(00:10:42) When Sky-High Margins Are an Orange Flag

(00:12:57) Finance as a Strategic Lever in AI Companies

(00:15:04) Sponsors – Tipalti, Aleph, Rillet

(00:17:22) Partnering with AI-Native Founders

(00:20:35) When Traditional SaaS Benchmarks Break Down

(00:23:58) Forecasting and Financial Planning for Compute Costs

(00:27:16) The Engineers-Versus-GPUs Trade-Off

(00:30:29) Resource Allocation and Infrastructure Efficiency

(00:33:47) How Pricing Models Evolve as LLM Costs Drop

(00:37:15) Circular Finance: When Big Tech Funds Its Own Vendors

(00:40:39) Metrics That Still Matter in AI-Driven Businesses

(00:44:12) The Evolving Role of Finance Leaders

(00:47:26) What “Operational Finance” Really Means

(00:50:58) Building Sustainable Efficiency in AI Companies

(00:54:03) Will We See a Private Trillion-Dollar Company?

(00:55:33) Outro

—

SPONSORS:

Fidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.

Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.com

RightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.

Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.

Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/run

Rillet is the AI-native ERP modern finance teams are switching to because it’s faster, simpler, and 100% built for how teams operate today. See how fast your team can move. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/metrics

#RunTheNumbersPodcast #FinanceLeadership #AIinBusiness #VentureCapital #SaaSMetrics

Check out Mostly Growth and get episodes early. Available on all platforms.

* YouTube

* Spotify

* Apple

In this episode, CJ Gustafson, Kyle Poyar, and Ben Hillman dive into the concept of “sloponomics”—a tongue-in-cheek look at the overwhelming flood of mediocre AI-generated content and what it means for creators, startups, and investors. They discuss how unique voices and genuine creativity will stand out in an AI-saturated landscape, the economic parallels between modern content creation and startup growth, and the tricky dynamics of building sustainable momentum in a world of noise. The trio also unpack the “$10K MRR” meme, pricing psychology, and the difference between chasing vanity metrics and building lasting value. With humor and real-world insight, they explore how AI, distribution, and early-stage investment are reshaping what success looks like in tech and media.

Timestamps:

00:00 Preview and Intro

00:35 Being Mean to AI and Early Banter

02:05 When You’re Rude to AI: The Penn State Study

04:57 Sponsor – Metronome

06:02 The Rise of AI-Generated “Slop” Content

07:15 The Creator “Haves and Have-Nots”

09:00 Losing Credit to AI Models

11:20 Feeding the Beast: 400 Posts Later

13:13 “Slop Talk” and Human-Made Slop

14:27 The $10K MRR Meme and Startup Momentum

15:49 Pricing Psychology and Product Traction

17:42 Hunting Mice, Buffalo, and Elephants

20:19 Venture Funds, Bubbles, and Ecosystem Investing

23:39 When Startups Invest in Startups

26:25 Slack, Lattice, and the Platform Play

30:39 Wrapping Up and Late-Night Insights

33:12 The Hemingway Story and CJ’s No-Instagram Lifestyle

36:10 Electric Boats, Group Discounts, and Sign-Off

Episodes Referenced:

Slop Talk (coming soon)

⁠https://www.youtube.com/slackerstuff⁠

Why Only 2% of Startups Make It

When startups burn cash faster than they learn | Ivan Makarov:⁠

996 Culture, Exploding AI Bills & SaaS Chaos⁠

Links:

⁠https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/study-proves-being-rude-to-ai-chatbots-gets-better-results-than-being-nice-3269895/⁠

⁠https://www.usg.edu/galileo/skills/unit07/internet07_02.phtml⁠

⁠https://futurism.com/altman-please-thanks-chatgpt⁠

⁠https://futurism.com/artificial-intelligence/over-50-percent-internet-ai-slop⁠

⁠https://www.axios.com/2025/10/14/ai-generated-writing-humans⁠

⁠https://www.economist.com/business/2025/10/16/sloponomics-who-wins-and-loses-in-the-ai-content-flood⁠

⁠https://x.com/madhuraaa_/status/1978390720881819884⁠

⁠https://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/eat-what-you-kill⁠

⁠https://christophjanz.blogspot.com/2014/10/five-ways-to-build-100-million-business.html⁠

⁠https://www.growthunhinged.com/p/how-to-build-your-early-gtm-strategy⁠

⁠https://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/startups-investing-in-startups-peak-bubble-behavior⁠

⁠https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2025/10/10/are-barefoot-shoes-good-for-runners⁠

⁠https://x.com/ivanomaksf/status/1978852000298320068?s=46⁠

⁠https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/uber-offers-drivers-extra-pay-to-perform-tasks-that-train-ai-7116401/⁠

⁠https://www.mostlymetrics.com/p/is-ltv-to-cac-the-nickelback-of-metrics⁠

⁠https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/final-2024-25-network-tv-ratings-tracker-high-potential-1236312223/⁠

⁠https://christophjanz.blogspot.com/2014/10/five-ways-to-build-100-million-business.html⁠

⁠https://www.theinformation.com/articles/ben-horowitz-hires-jensen-vercel-starts-venture-fund⁠

⁠https://www.instagram.com/chasemytail/

Today’s podcast is brought to you by Metronome

You just launched your new AI product. The new pricing page looks great. But behind it? Last-minute glue code, messy spreadsheets, and running ad-hoc queries to figure out what to bill. Customers get invoices they can’t understand. Engineers are chasing billing bugs. Finance can’t close the books.

With Metronome, you hand it all off to the real-time billing infrastructure that just works—reliable, flexible, and built to grow with you. We turn raw usage events into accurate invoices, give customers bills they actually understand, and keep every team in sync in real time.

Whether you’re launching usage-based pricing, managing enterprise contracts, or rolling out new AI services, Metronome does the heavy lifting so you can focus on your product, not your billing.

That’s why some of the fastest-growing companies in the world, like OpenAI and Anthropic, run their billing on Metronome.

Visit metronome.com to learn more.

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ sits down with Michael Stanisz, Partner at Revenue Management Labs, the person companies call when their pricing model stops making sense. For decades, software pricing was predictable: sell more seats, add more margin. But with AI, every usage prompt has a real cost, and the old economics no longer hold. CJ and Michael dive into what happens when your product looks like software but behaves like infrastructure, how pricing power erodes as features become free, and why value-based pricing might not be as customer-friendly as it sounds. They also explore the chaos of real-world pricing: from Microsoft cloning your startup to measuring ROI when your product’s impact is undeniable but hard to prove; all wrapped in sharp insights and a few “we still run this on DOS” war stories.

—

LINKS:

Michael on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-stanisz-27418a28

Revenue Management Labs: https://revenueml.com/

CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222

Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com

—

RELATED EPISODES:

“Anything new needs to have AI core to its offering”: Amy Butte, How Navan Is Redefining Finance Ops

From Credit Karma to Notion: CFO Rama Katkar on Leading Finance Through Every Growth Stage

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00:00) Preview and Intro

(00:02:23) Sponsor – Rillet, Fidelity Private Shares, and Mercury

(00:05:27) The new economics of AI pricing

(00:07:51) When variable costs replace software margins

(00:10:30) The fall of 80% SaaS margins

(00:13:23) From premium feature to table stakes

(00:15:07) Sponsor – RightRev, Tipalti, and Aleph

(00:19:12) Spotting a feature before it becomes a commodity

(00:23:31) The real cost of switching and why stickiness matters

(00:27:46) The rise of AI white labeling

(00:30:03) Outcome-based pricing — altruism or strategy?

(00:34:22) Rewarding throughput and avoiding “tollbooth” pricing

(00:36:29) Measuring usage and why telemetry matters

(00:40:49) What makes a value exchange credible

(00:44:14) Cost avoidance vs. revenue gain

(00:46:02) The stages of pricing maturity

(00:49:49) Why startups see what big companies can’t

(00:52:09) When hype meets hard costs in AI

(00:55:17) When customers refuse to leave on-prem

(01:03:29) Credits and Sign-Off

—

SPONSORS:

Rillet is the AI-native ERP modern finance teams are switching to because it’s faster, simpler, and 100% built for how teams operate today. See how fast your team can move. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/metrics

Fidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.

Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.com

RightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.

Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.

Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/run

#RunTheNumbersPodcast #PricingStrategy #SaaSModels #AIPricing #B2BRevenue

In this episode, CJ sits down with Brandon Sullivan, CFO at 2X, to unpack one of the most enduring tensions in business — the uneasy relationship between finance and marketing. From the myth of clean ROI to the chaos of martech spend, Brandon explains why measuring marketing impact is far harder than most CFOs think, and how spreadsheet logic can lead to bad decisions. He shares what it’s like to run finance inside a 1,200-person marketing org, why cutting too deep in downturns can backfire, and what it takes to actually bridge the gap between teams that speak different languages. Along the way, he reveals lessons from scaling 2X across time zones, building global reporting rhythms, and redefining how finance and marketing can finally pull in the same direction.

—

LINKS:

Brandon Sullivan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonsullivan2x/

2X: https://2x.marketing/

CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222

Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com

—

RELATED EPISODES:

From Facebook’s Hypergrowth to Daffy’s Disruption: A CFO’s Playbook for Saying Yes

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00:00) Preview and Intro

(00:02:28) Sponsor – Aleph | Rillet | Fidelity Private Shares

(00:05:55) Behind Enemy Lines: Finance Meets Marketing

(00:07:00) Why CFOs and CMOs Clash

(00:08:12) The Myth of Marketing ROI

(00:10:19) Why Marketing Is So Hard to Measure

(00:11:23) The Single Source of Truth Problem

(00:15:29) Sponsor – Mercury | RightRev | Tipalti

(00:19:35) The Three Buckets of Marketing Spend

(00:21:26) The Long-Term Cost of Cutting Program Spend

(00:23:27) How AI and ChatGPT Are Changing Marketing Attribution

(00:25:43) Building a Modern Finance Team

(00:27:55) The First-Time CFO Learning Curve

(00:31:05) From Solo Operator to Scaled Finance Org

(00:32:41) Why Weekly Reporting Beats Monthly Reviews

(00:40:10) Working with Private Equity Partners

(00:43:43) The Founding Story of 2X

(00:48:12) Running a Global Team Across Time Zones

(00:54:00) Long-Ass Lightning Round

(00:57:00) Advice to Younger Self

(00:58:58) Finance Stack and Craziest Expense Story

(00:59:58) Credits and Sign-Off

—

SPONSORS:

Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/run

Rillet is the AI-native ERP modern finance teams are switching to because it’s faster, simpler, and 100% built for how teams operate today. See how fast your team can move. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/metrics

Fidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.

Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.com

RightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.

Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.

#RunTheNumbersPodcast #FinanceVsMarketing #CFOInsights #MarketingROI #BusinessStrategy

Check out Mostly Growth and get episodes early. Available on all platforms.

* YouTube

* Spotify

* Apple

In this episode of Mostly Growth, CJ Gustafson, Kyle Poyar, and Ben Hillman dive into the question on everyone’s mind: are we in an AI bubble? What starts as a lighthearted riff on the U.S. Postal Service launching a podcast quickly spirals into a sharp, funny breakdown of today’s AI hype cycle — from Nvidia, OpenAI, and AMD trading money and GPUs in a trillion-dollar feedback loop, to startups burning cash chasing “AI-powered” everything. The trio share real examples of when AI helps and when it backfires (including one newsletter that totally tanked), debate whether companies are over-optimizing for automation, and laugh through the absurdity of the hype while grounding it in practical insights on product, finance, and growth.

Timestamps:

00:00 Preview and Intro

00:14 Are We in an AI Bubble?

00:44 The AI Feedback Loop: Nvidia, OpenAI, and AMD

01:00 Perplexity, We Caught You (Again)

02:18 The USPS Podcast and the End of Original Ideas

04:24 How the Team Actually Uses AI at Work

06:07 CJ’s DIY Dunning Saga

08:38 When Automation Goes Too Far

10:49 The Perplexity Gaslight Moment

13:27 AI vs. AI: Outsmarting Resume Screeners

16:09 What Recruiters Really Think of AI Resumes

17:17 The Chief of Staff Hiring Story

19:15 Is AI Adoption Already Slowing Down?

22:42 The “Crossing the Chasm” Moment for AI Tools

26:22 Bundling AI Like Streaming Services

28:49 Everyone’s Paying Everyone: The Circular AI Economy

31:15 Betting Big on AGI and Data Centers

34:09 The Margin: AI Erotica and Peak Absurdity

35:23 OpenAI’s Token Leaderboard and Other Blunders

41:43 What Kyle Tried This Week: Building an AI Agent

44:52 Wrap-Up and Outro

Episodes Referenced:

5,762 Job Applications. Zero Offers.

Episodes Referenced:

5,762 Job Applications. Zero Offers.

Why Only 2% of Startups Make It

The War for Talent is just getting started | Joe Floyd

Links:

https://usps-mailin-it.simplecast.com/

https://i.imgflip.com/a92oy5.jpg

https://tabs.inc/webinar/tabs-agent

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/07/business/ai-chatbot-prompts-resumes.html?_bhlid=1b5906cdc6781a738a150d9c32f846ebf11fc318

https://substack.com/home/post/p-175615945

https://ramp.com/data/ai-index?utm_source=econlab.substack.com

https://medium.com/@samuelvandeth/crossing-the-chasm-162802d1cf27

https://x.com/TrungTPhan/status/1922669292929024017/photo/1

https://x.com/zerohedge/status/1977902195472322620?s=42

https://topline.beehiiv.com/p/the-era-of-haves-and-have-nots

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpd2qv58yl5o

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/cj-gustafson-13140948_imagine-getting-called-into-your-cfos-office-activity-7381681514532458496-NOqa/

https://fortune.com/2025/10/01/red-lobster-ceo-damola-adamolekun-comeback-plan-bankruptcy/

https://fortune.com/2024/11/13/red-lobster-ceo-damola-adamolekun-says-endless-shrimp-is-never-coming-back/#

https://www.relay.app/

Today’s podcast is brought to you by Metronome

You just launched your new AI product. The new pricing page looks great. But behind it? Last-minute glue code, messy spreadsheets, and running ad-hoc queries to figure out what to bill. Customers get invoices they can’t understand. Engineers are chasing billing bugs. Finance can’t close the books.

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That’s why some of the fastest-growing companies in the world, like OpenAI and Anthropic, run their billing on Metronome.

Visit metronome.com to learn more.

In this episode of Run the Numbers, CJ Gustafson sits down with Ivan Makarov, Operating Partner at Andreessen Horowitz and former VP of Finance at Webflow, to explore what it takes to build a finance function from scratch inside a fast-growing startup. Ivan shares lessons from the trenches—how to decide between outsourcing and hiring in-house, what makes a great first finance hire, and why early-stage companies often run out of cash before they run out of ideas. He also dives into fundraising pitfalls, audit readiness, and the tools that make up a modern finance stack. Beyond the spreadsheets, Ivan opens up about the shift from operator to venture partner, the value of helping founders avoid his past mistakes, and what makes an offsite actually work.

—

LINKS:

Ivan Makarov on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivansmakarov/

Andreessen Horowitz: https://a16z.com/

CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222

Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com

—

RELATED EPISODES:

Webflow’s VP Finance Ivan Makarov on Understanding Startup Equity:

Portfolio Operations: This Is What You Actually Have To Do To Make Sure a Company Is Successful:

Brex COO/CFO Michael Tannenbaum on Taking Risks

996 Culture, Exploding AI Bills & SaaS Chaos

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00:00) Preview, Intro

(00:01:18) Meet Ivan Makarov of Andreessen Horowitz & Episode Setup

(00:02:39) Sponsor – Tipalti | Aleph | Rillet

(00:06:51) From Webflow to Andreessen: Becoming an Operating Partner

(00:09:19) When and Why Founders Hire Their First Finance Leader

(00:12:52) Hiring Early in Complex or Regulated Industries

(00:13:58) The First Finance Hire in 2025 vs. 2015

(00:15:46) Sponsor – Fidelity Private Shares | Mercury | RightRev

(00:19:02) The Many Hats of Finance Leaders & The Rise of RevOps

(00:24:55) What Founders Look For: Startup DNA and Work Ethic

(00:26:05) Grind Culture, Return to Office, and New Expectations

(00:28:20) From BizOps to RevOps: How Finance Roles Are Evolving

(00:31:57) The First 12 Months of a Finance Leader’s Playbook

(00:35:05) Choosing Audit Partners and Avoiding Hidden Costs

(00:36:32) Why Startups Really Fail — Running Out of Cash

(00:39:16) Cash Controls, Banking Diversification, and Fraud Prevention

(00:43:48) Fundraising Red Flags: Metrics, Definitions, and Diligence

(00:47:50) 409A Valuations, Equity Clarity & Candidate Questions

(00:50:09) The Modern Finance Tech Stack & Gen 3 Tools

(00:55:05) AI’s Impact: Replacing Labor, Not People

(01:00:00) Offsites, Team Building & The Future of Finance Leadership

(01:02:28) Wrapping Up: Reflections, Gratitude & Closing Credits

—

SPONSORS:

Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.

Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/run

Rillet is the AI-native ERP modern finance teams are switching to because it’s faster, simpler, and 100% built for how teams operate today. See how fast your team can move. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/metrics

Fidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.

Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.com

RightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.

#RunTheNumbersPodcast #StartupFinance #VentureCapital #CFOInsights #Leadership

In this episode, CJ sits down with Joe Floyd, General Partner at Emergence Capital, for a candid conversation about the venture landscape reshaped by AI. They unpack how acqui-hires are rewriting the social contract between founders and investors, why AI engineers are commanding “boy band money,” and how SaaS playbooks are being torn up and rebuilt in real time. Joe explains the economics of AI-native startups — from circular capital flows to model-provider costs — and explores whether the next trillion-dollar private company could come from this new wave. Along the way, they discuss valuation frenzy, headcount discipline, and why curiosity might be the most valuable skill in tech today.

—

LINKS:

Joe Floyd on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joefloyd/

HarbourVest Partners:

https://www.emcap.com/

CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222

Mostly metrics:

https://www.mostlymetrics.com

RELATED EPISODES:

Why Fundraising Has Slowed Down: Insights from Emergence Capital’s Benchmarking Report:

From Credit Karma to Notion: CFO Rama Katkar on Leading Finance Through Every Growth Stage:

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00:00) Preview and Intro

(00:00:54) Opening and Episode Overview

(00:02:53) Sponsor – RightRev | Tipalti | Aleph

(00:07:07) Back to the Office and Startup Pace in San Francisco

(00:08:40) AI Tooling Experiments and the Risk of Short-Term Hype

(00:10:19) Building Stickier AI Products and Competing in Crowded Markets

(00:12:27) SaaS Moats, Product-Market Fit, and the AI Shift

(00:14:00) How Productivity Platforms Use AI To Stay Sticky

(00:15:58) Continuous Authentication and the Next Wave of Security Tech

(00:16:36) Sponsor – Rillet | Fidelity Private Shares | Mercury

(00:19:54) Acqui-Hires, the Social Contract, and the War for AI Talent

(00:22:42) Stock-Based Comp and the Economics of Attracting Engineers

(00:24:39) The New Go-to-Market Playbook and Curiosity as a Superpower

(00:27:59) AI’s Impact on Sales, Forecasting, and Buyer Behavior

(00:29:11) Coding Agents, Headcount Reduction, and the Future of Engineering

(00:32:21) Building Defensible IP and Competing in the LLM Ecosystem

(00:34:34) AI ROI, Payback Periods, and the Search for Efficiency

(00:37:17) Valuations, Fund Cycles, and the Venture Market Reset

(00:40:20) The Circular Flow of AI Capital and Infrastructure Overbuild

(00:45:37) AI Pricing Models, Platform Wars, and Open Source Futures

(00:50:02) The Race to the First $1 Trillion Private Company

(00:51:09) Credits and Outro

—

SPONSORS:

Fidelity Private Shares is the all-in-one equity management platform that keeps your cap table clean, your data room organized, and your equity story clear—so you never risk losing a fundraising round over messy records. Schedule a demo at https://www.fidelityprivateshares.com and mention Mostly Metrics to get 20% off.

Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.com

RightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit https://www.rightrev.com and schedule a demo.

Tipalti automates the entire payables process—from onboarding suppliers to executing global payouts—helping finance teams save time, eliminate costly errors, and scale confidently across 200+ countries and 120 currencies. More than 5,000 businesses already trust Tipalti to manage payments with built-in security and tax compliance. Visit https://www.tipalti.com/runthenumbers to learn more.

Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/run

Rillet is the AI-native ERP modern finance teams are switching to because it’s faster, simpler, and 100% built for how teams operate today. See how fast your team can move. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/metrics

#RunTheNumbersPodcast #VentureCapital #ArtificialIntelligence #StartupStrategy #FutureOfWork