In this episode, CJ interviews Matt Hudson, CFO of Coda, who shares insights from his unique career path that spans roles as a product manager at Google, YouTube, and Coda before becoming a CFO. He breaks down a number of frameworks he’s used in his career from the Blue and Black Loop framework for understanding the growth of a shareable product like Coda’s, Eigenquestions for getting to the one question at the center of all questions, and the Vacation Rule for determining whether to build or buy software tools. Matt also discusses the evolution of Coda's pricing model and offers perspectives on community-driven growth instead of typical product-led growth. He sheds light on how to better understand and work with product managers, how to minimize SaaS sprawl, and the role of luck and failure in one’s success, before sharing nuggets of wisdom from working with notable investors like Mamoon Hamid and Reid Hoffman.

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SPONSORS:

Brex offers the world's smartest corporate card on a full-stack global platform that is everything CFOs need to manage their finances on an elite level. Plus they offer modern banking and treasury as well as intuitive expenses and accounting automation, bill pay, and travel. Brex makes it easy to control spend before it happens, automate annoying tasks, and optimize your finances. Find out how Brex can help you make every dollar count at brex.com/metrics.

Planful is a financial performance management platform designed to streamline financial tasks for businesses. It helps with budgeting, closing the books, and financial reporting, all on a cloud-based platform. By improving the efficiency and accuracy of these processes, Planful allows businesses to make better financial decisions. Find out more at www.planful.com/metrics.

RightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. Whether it's multi-element arrangements, subscription renewals, or complex usage-based contracts, RightRev takes care of it all. That means fewer spreadsheets, fewer errors, and more time for your team to focus on growth. For modern revenue recognition simplified, visit rightrev.com and schedule a demo.

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FOLLOW US ON X:

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:13) Sponsor – Brex | Planful

(04:30) Matt’s Journey from Product Manager to CFO

(08:59) The Blue and Black Loop Framework

(12:42) Modeling for Growth Loops

(16:32) Why Looking at User Cohorts Can Be Misleading

(17:59) Sponsor – RightRev

(21:08) How Coda’s Pricing Model Has Evolved over Time

(27:37) The Downside to PLG

(31:35) Community-Driven Growth Versus Product-Led Growth

(32:29) The Billing Mechanism for PLG

(34:16) The Biggest Misconceptions About Product Managers

(38:09) Build Versus Buy: The Vacation Rule

(42:43) SaaS Sprawl

(45:45) Eigenquestions

(50:15) Nuggets of Wisdom from Investors

(53:32) Reconciling Hard Work and Luck

(57:05) Long-Ass Lightning Round: Clarity over Comprehensiveness

(1:01:09) Something Matt Wishes He Had Known Earlier

(1:03:19) Finance Software Stack

(1:03:36) Craziest Expense Story

Steve Isom, the CFO of Bloomerang, joins CJ to talk about what it really means to be a “strategic” CFO. Steve shares profound insights on the people element of the job and how finance leaders can avoid making the business a math problem. He discusses the CFO’s job in playing offense not just defense, and what that looks like. He sheds light on how as a CFO, you can prove yourself as a valuable contributor and earn an invitation to various conversations instead of being seen as an umpire or “CF-no”. He also explains how to deal with friction when you do have to play that role. The conversation covers transaction readiness as part of the CFO’s job and how this helped Steve when a previous company, Flywheel, was acquired in a process that took just 31 days even though it wasn’t even for sale. He closes with advice on how to build a kick-ass finance team.

If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get a customized KPI checklist.

—

SPONSORS:

Planful is a financial performance management platform designed to streamline financial tasks for businesses. It helps with budgeting, closing the books, and financial reporting, all on a cloud-based platform. By improving the efficiency and accuracy of these processes, Planful allows businesses to make better financial decisions. Find out more at www.planful.com/metrics.

RightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. Whether it's multi-element arrangements, subscription renewals, or complex usage-based contracts, RightRev takes care of it all. That means fewer spreadsheets, fewer errors, and more time for your team to focus on growth. For modern revenue recognition simplified, visit rightrev.com and schedule a demo.

Brex offers the world's smartest corporate card on a full-stack global platform that is everything CFOs need to manage their finances on an elite level. Plus they offer modern banking and treasury as well as intuitive expenses and accounting automation, bill pay, and travel. Brex makes it easy to control spend before it happens, automate annoying tasks, and optimize your finances. Find out how Brex can help you make every dollar count at brex.com/metrics. 

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FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:40) Sponsor – Planful | RightRev

(07:48) What It Means to Be a Strategic Finance Leader

(12:44) Having Empathy for Sales and Other Roles

(15:29) Sponsor – Brex

(16:48) Playing Offense Versus Playing Defense

(21:02) Balancing the Metrics with the People Element

(29:05) Earning a Seat at the Table as a CFO

(31:58) Dealing with Friction When You Have to Play Umpire

(38:36) Transaction Readiness as Part of the CFO’s Job

(41:14) Flywheel’s 31-Day Acquisition

(47:47) Building a Kick-Ass Finance Team

In this episode, CJ interviews Ross Grainger, the CFO of Paradox, to discuss work-life integration (instead of balance), why the corporate ladder is less like a ladder and more like a jungle gym, and the hallmarks of a great CFO/FP&A/controller relationship. He starts by sharing his own unconventional career journey and talks about the importance of the hustle, giving examples from his own life of periods when things were weighted towards life or work and how this benefited him. He also describes why the career ladder is more like a jungle gym and gives examples of times when he had to step backwards or sideways to get ahead. He sheds light on the value of investing in work relationships outside of finance, such as product marketing and sales, before discussing the hallmarks of a good CFO/controller/FP&A relationship. With a team in Vietnam, he gives advice on how to expand internationally. The episode includes an explanation of why Ross doesn’t believe in annual planning, what he does instead, and how he justifies this to the board.

If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get a customized KPI checklist.

—

SPONSORS:

Operators Guild is where the best CEOs, CFOs, VPs of finance, and BizOps leaders in the business connect, network, and grow together. Built by operators for operators, this members-only community is home to more than 1000 of the most elite high-growth operators in the world. Experience connection and knowledge share with professionals who understand you like no one else does. Learn more and apply at operators-guild.com.

Maxio is the only billing and financial operations platform that was purpose built for B2B SaaS. They're helping SaaS finance teams automate billing and revenue recognition, manage collections and payments, and put together investor grade reporting packages. 🚀 Request a demo at www.maxio.com/runthenumbers for 10% off your first year.

RemoFirst is a full-service Employer of Record solution that handles all your global employment needs. RemoFirst can help you navigate the maze of regulations and logistical challenges to onboard employees and contractors from anywhere in the world and streamline payroll, taxes, and compliances. Get two months free on EOR fees for your first hire in any country by visiting RemoFirst.com/metrics.

Mercury is the fintech ambitious companies use for banking and all their financial workflows. With a powerful bank account at the center of their operations, companies can make better financial decisions and ensure that every dollar spent aligns with company priorities. That's why over 100K startups choose Mercury to confidently run all their financial operations with the precision, control, and focus they need to operate at their best. Learn more at mercury.com.

Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve Bank & Trust®; Members FDIC.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

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FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:08) Sponsor – Operators Guild | Maxio

(06:00) Work-Life Integration Versus Work-Life Balance

(09:15) The Importance of the Hustle

(10:53) Periods of Ross’s Life That Were Weighted Towards Life or Work

(12:54) Why It’s Not a Career Ladder but a Jungle Gym

(16:38) Sponsor – RemoFirst | Mercury | NetSuite

(20:27) Examples of Downward Career Moves That Got Ross Ahead

(25:17) The Value of Work Relationships Outside of Finance

(29:30) The Hallmarks of a Good CFO/Controller/FP&A Relationship

(32:38) Paradox’s Team in Vietnam and How to Expand Internationally

(37:11) Ross’s Views on R&D Spend and Advice on Payback Periods

(39:27) Why Ross Doesn’t Believe in Annual Planning

(42:18) Justifying This Flexibility to the Board

(43:51) Communicating Bad News

(45:20) Long-Ass Lightning Round: Career Regrets

(46:41) Advice to Younger Self on the Hustle

(47:12) Finance Software Stack

(47:46) Craziest Expense Story

In this episode, CJ has an exceptionally candid conversation with Will Cureton, the CFO of Nitrogen Wealth. Will sheds light on what Nitrogen Wealth does and how it incorporates a tolerance functionality built on the prospect theory into its software platform to better serve wealth management firms. After taking on some private equity backing in 2021, Nitrogen Wealth made a big price increase mistake. Will talks about how the company went about revisiting its growth assumptions. He explains how they assessed the company’s TAM, exited unsustainable business lines, and unbundled some of their products in order to maintain or regain their customers. Will then does a deep dive on mitigating churn, covering which metrics Nitrogen tracks to predict churn, how they formulate a churn score, and other steps they take to support customer retention.

If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get a customized KPI checklist.

—

SPONSORS:

Maxio is the only billing and financial operations platform that was purpose built for B2B SaaS. They're helping SaaS finance teams automate billing and revenue recognition, manage collections and payments, and put together investor grade reporting packages. 🚀 Request a demo at www.maxio.com/runthenumbers for 10% off your first year.

RemoFirst is a full-service Employer of Record solution that handles all your global employment needs. RemoFirst can help you navigate the maze of regulations and logistical challenges to onboard employees and contractors from anywhere in the world and streamline payroll, taxes, and compliances. Get two months free on EOR fees for your first hire in any country by visiting RemoFirst.com/metrics.

Mercury is the fintech ambitious companies use for banking and all their financial workflows. With a powerful bank account at the center of their operations, companies can make better financial decisions and ensure that every dollar spent aligns with company priorities. That's why over 100K startups choose Mercury to confidently run all their financial operations with the precision, control, and focus they need to operate at their best. Learn more at mercury.com.

Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve Bank & Trust®; Members FDIC.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Operators Guild is where the best CEOs, CFOs, VPs of finance, and BizOps leaders in the business connect, network, and grow together. Built by operators for operators, this members-only community is home to more than 1000 of the most elite high-growth operators in the world. Experience connection and knowledge share with professionals who understand you like no one else does. Learn more and apply at operators-guild.com.

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FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(01:32) Sponsor – Maxio | RemoFirst

(04:03) An Intro to Nitrogen Wealth and Prospect Theory

(07:34) Nitrogen’s Private Equity Backing and Price Increase Mistake

(11:27) Revisiting Growth Assumptions: Assessing TAM

(14:30) Time to Land the Customer Versus the Number of Customers

(16:34) Sponsor – Mercury | NetSuite | Operators Guild

(19:58) Building Test Plans for TAM Expansion

(22:28) Exiting Unsustainable Business Lines

(25:36) Bundling or Unbundling Products

(27:43) Nitrogen’s Price-of-Value Mismatch and Drivers to Mitigate Churn

(28:30) Formulating a Churn Score

(31:47) Why Nitrogen’s RevOps Team Reports to the CFO, Not Sales

(33:31) Learnings on Mitigating Churn

(34:40) Metrics to Track to Predict Churn

(35:40) The Severity of Nitrogen’s Price Increase

(36:58) Long-Ass Lightning Round: A Business Trip to Manitoba

(39:25) A Brown-Nosing Mistake Will Made

(40:52) Advice to Younger Self

(41:51) Finance Software Stack

(43:01) Craziest Expense Story

Alyssa Shadinger, CFO of Sisense, sits down with CJ in this episode for a masterful deep dive on building and scaling analytics teams and perfecting the art of the OKR (Objectives and Key Results). They discuss the optimal structure for data and analytics teams and where they should sit within the org. Alyssa explains how Sisense clarified their data models for more accurate self-service reporting, how the company maps their analysts to different teams, and where the costs of this should sit in the P&L. Then CJ and Alyssa delve into OKRs, the biggest challenge to their success, the role of finance in helping the rest of the company define them, and the necessity of linking them to measurable financial outcomes. They also talk about the optimal number of OKRs that an org should have, and other tips for achieving them.

If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get a customized KPI checklist.

—

SPONSORS:

RemoFirst is a full-service Employer of Record solution that handles all your global employment needs. RemoFirst can help you navigate the maze of regulations and logistical challenges to onboard employees and contractors from anywhere in the world and streamline payroll, taxes, and compliances. Get two months free on EOR fees for your first hire in any country by visiting RemoFirst.com/metrics.

Mercury is the fintech ambitious companies use for banking and all their financial workflows. With a powerful bank account at the center of their operations, companies can make better financial decisions and ensure that every dollar spent aligns with company priorities. That's why over 100K startups choose Mercury to confidently run all their financial operations with the precision, control, and focus they need to operate at their best. Learn more at mercury.com.

Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve Bank & Trust®; Members FDIC.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Operators Guild is where the best CEOs, CFOs, VPs of finance, and BizOps leaders in the business connect, network, and grow together. Built by operators for operators, this members-only community is home to more than 1000 of the most elite high-growth operators in the world. Experience connection and knowledge share with professionals who understand you like no one else does. Learn more and apply at operators-guild.com.

Maxio is the only billing and financial operations platform that was purpose built for B2B SaaS. They're helping SaaS finance teams automate billing and revenue recognition, manage collections and payments, and put together investor grade reporting packages. 🚀 Request a demo at www.maxio.com/runthenumbers for 10% off your first year.

—

FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(01:38) Sponsor – RemoFirst | Mercury

(04:06) Where Data and Analytics Should Sit Within an Org

(09:52) If BI Should Start as an Engineering Function at an Early-Stage Company

(11:53) Delineating Between Systems Management Versus Actual Data Work

(14:11) How to Go About Building Out the Analytics Team

(16:31) Sponsor – NetSuite | Operators Guild | Maxio

(20:15) Business Partnering Versus Self-Service

(23:46) The Role of the BI Team in Clarifying Definitions

(24:28) How Sisense Maps Analysts to Different Teams

(26:27) Where the Cost of These Analysts Should Sit in the P&L

(27:09) The Biggest Challenge to OKRs

(29:50) The Role of Finance in Helping Groups Come Up with OKRs

(30:52) The ROI of OKRs

(31:49) Why OKRs Should Be Visible to the Entire Org

(32:24) The Right Number of OKRs

(33:53) Why Some OKRs Just Disappear Mid-Year

(35:49) Who Should Be Responsible for Reporting on OKRs

(36:36) Baking OKRs into Your Weekly Cadence

(37:15) Long-Ass Lightning Round: Hiring Mistakes

(42:26) Advice to Younger Self

(43:10) Finance Software Stack

(44:23) Craziest Expense Story

In this episode, CJ interviews Rebeca Sanchez Sarmiento, the CFO of Dotmatics and the queen of managing operational complexity. With over seven acquisitions under her belt in just a few years, Rebeca shares insights on managing the complex realities of inorganic growth. She breaks down how Dotmatics balances autonomy and integration across multiple entities while finding synergies and implementing system consolidations. The conversation delves into the intricacies of managing 16 P&Ls, creating consistent forecasting frameworks, and determining whether to lean into an 80/20 approach or aim for all-around excellence. Beyond M&A, Rebeca’s extensive experience in investor relations and as a sell-side equity analyst adds depth to the discussion. The conversation also touches on her personal journey, including a bold move to Los Angeles, how it helped her career, and her approach to work-life balance and remote work.

If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get a customized KPI checklist.

—

SPONSORS:

Mercury is the fintech ambitious companies use for banking and all their financial workflows. With a powerful bank account at the center of their operations, companies can make better financial decisions and ensure that every dollar spent aligns with company priorities. That's why over 100K startups choose Mercury to confidently run all their financial operations with the precision, control, and focus they need to operate at their best. Learn more at mercury.com.

Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve Bank & Trust®; Members FDIC.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Operators Guild is where the best CEOs, CFOs, VPs of finance, and BizOps leaders in the business connect, network, and grow together. Built by operators for operators, this members-only community is home to more than 1000 of the most elite high-growth operators in the world. Experience connection and knowledge share with professionals who understand you like no one else does. Learn more and apply at operators-guild.com.

Maxio is the only billing and financial operations platform that was purpose built for B2B SaaS. They're helping SaaS finance teams automate billing and revenue recognition, manage collections and payments, and put together investor grade reporting packages. 🚀 Request a demo at www.maxio.com/runthenumbers for 10% off your first year.

RemoFirst is a full-service Employer of Record solution that handles all your global employment needs. RemoFirst can help you navigate the maze of regulations and logistical challenges to onboard employees and contractors from anywhere in the world and streamline payroll, taxes, and compliances. Get two months free on EOR fees for your first hire in any country by visiting RemoFirst.com/metrics.

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FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:30) Sponsor – Mercury | NetSuite

(04:51) Managing Acquisitions from an Operational Angle

(08:19) Why Finance Staff Aren’t the First to Go After an Acquisition

(09:10) Approaching a Company’s Financials After Diligence

(10:07) Why Dotmatics Manages These Companies Separately

(12:14) Prioritizing System Consolidation and Process Changes

(13:45) Forecasting for the Acquisition Company

(15:12) How Rebeca Forecasts for 16 P&Ls

(16:16) Why Dotmatics Distribute Instead of Having a Sales Team

(17:21) Sponsor – Operators Guild | Maxio | RemoFirst

(21:03) How Rebeca Structures the FP&A Team

(23:05) The 80/20 Approach to Forecasting

(25:44) Why They Don’t Budget for M&A Itself

(27:54) How Rebeca’s IR and Research Background Informs Her Current Role

(34:38) Rebeca’s Research on the Latin American Market

(37:09) How Rebeca Moved to LA on a Whim

(41:28) The Benefits of a Remote Workforce

(44:09) Rebeca’s Approach to Work-Life Balance

(47:59) Why Employees Will Leave a Job

(48:46) Long-Ass Lightning Round: Why People Stay in Bad Work Environments

(51:22) Advice on Patience

(51:53) Finance Software Stack

Samarth Mital, Senior Director of Global Sales Strategy, Planning & Analytics, Renewals & Sales Development at Rubrik joins CJ for this episode to talk all things pipeline, territory creation, commission plans, and renewals. Samarth joined the company when it was doing 70 million in ARR. Rubrik is now doing $1 billion and recently went public. He sheds light on his role at Rubrik in fostering this growth, the teams under his purview, and the cadence of the recurring meetings they have for forecasting. He discusses the value of an “accountability forum”, the best practices for inspecting pipeline, how to set up sales reps for success, and the art and science of territory design. He explains why territories get smaller as you add more products. He also delves into the characteristics of a good comp plan and how he deals with reps who feel their quota’s too high, before breaking down what a healthy renewals function looks like.

If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get a customized KPI checklist.

—

SPONSORS:

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Operators Guild is where the best CEOs, CFOs, VPs of finance, and BizOps leaders in the business connect, network, and grow together. Built by operators for operators, this members-only community is home to more than 1000 of the most elite high-growth operators in the world. Experience connection and knowledge share with professionals who understand you like no one else does. Learn more and apply at operators-guild.com.

Maxio is the only billing and financial operations platform that was purpose built for B2B SaaS. They're helping SaaS finance teams automate billing and revenue recognition, manage collections and payments, and put together investor grade reporting packages. 🚀 Request a demo at www.maxio.com/runthenumbers for 10% off your first year.

RemoFirst is a full-service Employer of Record solution that handles all your global employment needs. RemoFirst can help you navigate the maze of regulations and logistical challenges to onboard employees and contractors from anywhere in the world and streamline payroll, taxes, and compliances. Get two months free on EOR fees for your first hire in any country by visiting RemoFirst.com/metrics.

Mercury is the fintech ambitious companies use for banking and all their financial workflows. With a powerful bank account at the center of their operations, companies can make better financial decisions and ensure that every dollar spent aligns with company priorities. That's why over 100K startups choose Mercury to confidently run all their financial operations with the precision, control, and focus they need to operate at their best. Learn more at mercury.com.

Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve Bank & Trust®; Members FDIC.

—

FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(01:33) Sponsor – NetSuite | Operators Guild

(04:48) Samarth’s Role at Rubrik

(06:26) The Cadence of Recurring Meetings

(08:59) Getting Down to the Tactical Level of Which Deals Matter

(13:39) The Value of an “Accountability Forum”

(16:52) Sponsor – Maxio | RemoFirst | Mercury

(20:14) The Roles of Tension and Friction in Samarth’s Work

(22:02) Best Practices for Inspecting Pipeline

(27:22) Setting Sales Reps Up for Success

(33:51) The Art and Science of Territory Design

(36:23) Preventing Reps from Horse-Trading Accounts

(37:54) Not Leaving Opportunities Untapped When a Rep Leaves a Territory

(38:41) Why Territories Get Smaller as You Add More Products

(44:03) The Characteristics of a Good Comp Plan

(46:32) Dealing with Reps Who Feel Their Quotas Are Too High

(49:30) What a Healthy Renewals Function Looks Like

This episode does a deep dive into stock-based compensation (SBC) and employee equity. Joining CJ for this conversation is Curt Sigfstead, the CFO of Clio, a leading vertical software provider for legal firms. CJ and Curt unpack the complexities of SBC, examining its importance, evolution, and how to effectively communicate its value to potential hires and the organization as a whole. They cover the evolution of share types as a company scales and how finance leaders should budget for equity compensation. Then Curt provides a detailed walkthrough of Clio's recent fundraising process, highlighting the importance of meeting and beating financial targets to maintain investor confidence. You’ll also hear about building trust with everyone you work with and strategies for CFOs to empower founders to do their best work.

If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get a customized KPI checklist.

—

SPONSORS:

Operators Guild is where the best CEOs, CFOs, VPs of finance, and BizOps leaders in the business connect, network, and grow together. Built by operators for operators, this members-only community is home to more than 1000 of the most elite high-growth operators in the world. Experience connection and knowledge share with professionals who understand you like no one else does. Learn more and apply at operators-guild.com.

Maxio is the only billing and financial operations platform that was purpose built for B2B SaaS. They're helping SaaS finance teams automate billing and revenue recognition, manage collections and payments, and put together investor grade reporting packages. 🚀 Request a demo at www.maxio.com/runthenumbers for 10% off your first year.

RemoFirst is a full-service Employer of Record solution that handles all your global employment needs. RemoFirst can help you navigate the maze of regulations and logistical challenges to onboard employees and contractors from anywhere in the world and streamline payroll, taxes, and compliances. Get two months free on EOR fees for your first hire in any country by visiting RemoFirst.com/metrics.

Mercury is the fintech ambitious companies use for banking and all their financial workflows. With a powerful bank account at the center of their operations, companies can make better financial decisions and ensure that every dollar spent aligns with company priorities. That's why over 100K startups choose Mercury to confidently run all their financial operations with the precision, control, and focus they need to operate at their best. Learn more at mercury.com.

Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve Bank & Trust®; Members FDIC.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

—

FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(01:56) Sponsor – Operators Guild | Maxio

(04:47) Is Stock-Based Compensation Real?

(06:36) Why SBC Has Been Ignored for So Long

(11:39) SBC for Private Versus Public Companies

(13:05) The Mechanism by Which Employees Are Rewarded with Equity

(16:28) Sponsor – RemoFirst | Mercury | NetSuite

(19:52) Explaining the Potential Value of Equity to Prospective Hires

(23:18) Talking to the Organization About the Value of Equity

(26:09) Budgeting for Equity Compensation

(30:41) The Round That Clio Just Raised

(35:58) Strategies for Empowering Founders

(42:22) Filling the Trust Battery

(44:03) Meeting and Beating Your Numbers During a Fundraise

(49:31) Long-Ass Lightning Round: The Biggest Mistakes Curt Made

(53:06) Advice to Younger Self

(54:40) Finance Software Stack

(55:38) Craziest Expense Story

Guy Melamed, CFO & COO of Varonis, joins CJ to discuss the company’s two major transitions. In 2019, Varonis shifted from a perpetual model to an on-prem subscription model, completing the transformation in record time. They are currently in the process of transitioning from an on-prem subscription company to a SaaS company. Guy and CJ delve into the challenges of these transitions, the pressure of doing them in the public eye, and how to communicate these processes to your customers, investors, and sales reps. He highlights the key KPIs that Varonis tracks, the ones that are overrated, and the importance of clearly defined metrics. Guy also touches on the challenge of keeping your eye on short, medium, and long-term strategy, before reflecting on his career, the risks he has taken, and lessons learned from his time in sports and business.

If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get a customized KPI checklist.

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SPONSORS:

Maxio is the only billing and financial operations platform that was purpose built for B2B SaaS. They're helping SaaS finance teams automate billing and revenue recognition, manage collections and payments, and put together investor grade reporting packages. 🚀 Request a demo at www.maxio.com/runthenumbers for 10% off your first year.

RemoFirst is a full-service Employer of Record solution that handles all your global employment needs. RemoFirst can help you navigate the maze of regulations and logistical challenges to onboard employees and contractors from anywhere in the world and streamline payroll, taxes, and compliances. Get two months free on EOR fees for your first hire in any country by visiting RemoFirst.com/metrics.

Mercury is the fintech ambitious companies use for banking and all their financial workflows. With a powerful bank account at the center of their operations, companies can make better financial decisions and ensure that every dollar spent aligns with company priorities. That's why over 100K startups choose Mercury to confidently run all their financial operations with the precision, control, and focus they need to operate at their best. Learn more at mercury.com.

Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve Bank & Trust®; Members FDIC.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Operators Guild is where the best CEOs, CFOs, VPs of finance, and BizOps leaders in the business connect, network, and grow together. Built by operators for operators, this members-only community is home to more than 1000 of the most elite high-growth operators in the world. Experience connection and knowledge share with professionals who understand you like no one else does. Learn more and apply at operators-guild.com.

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FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:11) Sponsor – Maxio | RemoFirst

(04:57) Varonis’s Two Major Company Transformations

(08:02) The Pressure of Undergoing a Transition in the Public Eye

(09:54) Communicating to Key Stakeholders in a Transition

(13:59) The Biggest Challenge to Varonis’s Transition

(15:36) Sponsor – Mercury | NetSuite | Operators Guild

(19:00) The Grading System That Varonis Introduced

(23:50) Advice to Finance Leaders Facing Business Model Transitions

(26:15) Varonis’s Three North Star Metrics

(30:00) A Common KPI or Metric That Is Overrated

(31:32) EBITDA Versus Free Cashflow When Communicating to Investors

(32:47) The Importance of Well-Defined KPIs

(40:21) How Guy Decides Where His Attention Is Most Needed

(41:36) Keeping Your Eye on Short, Medium, and Long-Term Strategy

(43:40) The Influence of Sports on How Guy Faces Business Challenges

(44:51) Long-Ass Lightning Round: What Gets CFOs in Trouble

(49:30) Guy’s Biggest Career Risk

(50:11) Unconventional Financial Advice

(52:12) Craziest Expense Story

In this episode, CJ interviews Justin Coulombe, the CFO of Miro. Apart from his “less but better” philosophy where he encourages listeners to strategically divest from less important things to focus on what’s most impactful, he also shares a wealth of profound advice on being an effective CFO in SaaS. He explains Miro’s approach to blending data from usage patterns, predictive modeling, and AI to identify upsell opportunities, prevent churn, and enhance customer retention. The discussion dives into the company’s unique combination of product-led growth (PLG) and human-touch sales motions, exploring how to harness both while avoiding internal channel conflict. Justin also offers his perspective on the per-seat pricing model, why it still works for Miro, and whether outcome-based pricing is the future. Drawing on his experiences leading major transformations at Autodesk, Box, SurveyMonkey, and now Miro, he provides a framework for CFOs navigating business model transitions and explains why they fail. He also shares bold takes on SaaS business practices that need rethinking and his thoughts on how to balance growth and profitability in SaaS.

If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get a customized KPI checklist.

—

SPONSORS:

RemoFirst is a full-service Employer of Record solution that handles all your global employment needs. RemoFirst can help you navigate the maze of regulations and logistical challenges to onboard employees and contractors from anywhere in the world and streamline payroll, taxes, and compliances. Get two months free on EOR fees for your first hire in any country by visiting RemoFirst.com/metrics.

Mercury is the fintech ambitious companies use for banking and all their financial workflows. With a powerful bank account at the center of their operations, companies can make better financial decisions and ensure that every dollar spent aligns with company priorities. That's why over 100K startups choose Mercury to confidently run all their financial operations with the precision, control, and focus they need to operate at their best. Learn more at mercury.com.

Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve Bank & Trust®; Members FDIC.

NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 40,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅, head to NetSuite https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Operators Guild is where the best CEOs, CFOs, VPs of finance, and BizOps leaders in the business connect, network, and grow together. Built by operators for operators, this members-only community is home to more than 1000 of the most elite high-growth operators in the world. Experience connection and knowledge share with professionals who understand you like no one else does. Learn more and apply at operators-guild.com.

Maxio is the only billing and financial operations platform that was purpose built for B2B SaaS. They're helping SaaS finance teams automate billing and revenue recognition, manage collections and payments, and put together investor grade reporting packages. 🚀 Request a demo at www.maxio.com/runthenumbers for 10% off your first year.

—

FOLLOW US ON X:

@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

—

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(01:58) Sponsor – RemoFirst | Mercury

(04:13) An Intro to Miro

(05:47) Justin’s Framework for Using Data to Drive Outcomes

(12:09) The “Less but Better” Philosophy

(14:34) Examples of Divesting from Things

(16:54) Sponsor – NetSuite | Operators Guild | Maxio

(21:49) Slowing Down to Speed Up

(22:51) How to Say No Gracefully

(25:43) Maintaining Standards While Encouraging People to Take Risks

(28:16) Using Usage Patterns to Drive Monetization

(30:07) “Sticky Installation” – Meeting the Customer Where They Are

(32:41) Blending Self-Serve PLG and Field Sales Motions

(37:16) Per Seat-Based Pricing Versus Outcome-Based Pricing

(42:08) Why Seat-Based Pricing Model Works Miro

(44:08) Advice for CFOs Navigating Major Transitions in Their Business Models

(47:41) The Reasons Business Transformations Fail

(49:25) SaaS Business Practices from the Last Decade That Need Rethinking

(53:02) The Trade-Off Between Growth and Profitability in SaaS

(56:00) Long-Ass Lightning Round: A Poor Hiring Decision

(59:34) Finance Software Stack

(01:00:51) Craziest Expense Story