Dr. Rob Shumaker and Kristi Lee sit down with 2025 Indianapolis Prize DeHaan Finalist Dr. Lee James Taylor White and fellow conservationist Dr. Catherine “Kate” Abernathy for an extraordinary two-part conversation on wildlife conservation in central Africa.

White shares how he helped create 13 national parks in Gabon, led efforts that protected more than half of the world’s remaining forest elephants, and confronted poaching networks tied to international crime. Abernathy offers vivid insight into decades of field research on gorillas, chimpanzees, and mandrills, including long-term data showing how climate change is reducing fruit availability for wildlife.

They also discuss White’s role as Gabon’s Minister of Forests and Environment, the 2023 military coup that forced him from office, their years living in the Congo Basin, and the dramatic story of Kate surviving a direct charge from a forest elephant.

This episode provides rare, eyewitness accounts of conservation work in the rainforests of Gabon and the Congo Basin from two leading experts recognized by the Indianapolis Prize, the world’s leading award for animal conservation.