In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Roger Atkins, President of the National Tooling and Machining Association (NTMA), to talk about the real state of U.S. manufacturing as we close out 2025. Representing more than 1,000 small and medium manufacturers nationwide, Roger brings a boots-on-the-ground perspective to the headwinds, opportunities, and trends shaping the industry right now.

The conversation goes well beyond statistics to explore the forces behind them. Roger shares his preview of the MTForecast conference and NTMA's ENGAGE event, pulling back the curtain on survey data straight from job shops across America. From tariffs to labor shortages, election-year uncertainty to international trade shifts, he outlines what's truly affecting shops and where he sees signs of stability.

We also dig into the "new math" of manufacturing leadership — the push to do more with the same workforce, invest in automation and workholding instead of just machines, and partner with builders and integrators to drive productivity. Roger explains why this collaboration between equipment makers and shops is more critical than ever.

Finally, we focus on one of Roger's favorite topics: benchmarking. He shares a powerful story about how one shop used benchmarking against itself to command a premium sale price, underscoring why every shop owner should measure not just against the competition, but also against their own past performance.

This episode is a blueprint for owners, operators, and leaders who want to thrive despite uncertainty—and who believe small manufacturers make the world go round.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• (1:00) Introducing Roger Atkins and the NTMA's 1,000-member nationwide network
• (1:50) Previewing NTMA ENGAGE 2025 and MTForecast 2025
• (3:57) Expectations vs. reality in 2025: Flat performance and sector-by-sector differences
• (5:32) Get 20% off your MTForecast registration with code MAK20
• (6:47) Mike's oil and gas perspective—slow and steady
• (8:32) Why no shop can depend on one industry anymore
• (10:22) Tariffs, international pressures, and how uncertainty delays investment decisions
• (11:28) Why "just make a decision" is Roger's message to legislators
• (13:00) Why small manufacturers navigate uncertainty better than anyone
• (16:20) Forecasting equipment purchases: Bigger interest in workholding and automation
• (17:22) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• (18:00) Why MTForecast is where builders and users come together to collaborate
• (19:22) Doing more with the same workforce: automation, quick-change workholding, and better tooling
• (22:23) Benchmarking: why every shop should start by measuring against itself
• (24:40) Benchmarking surveys as a top NTMA member benefit (and a sign of top-shop discipline)
• (28:14) Roger's call to action: Business as usual no longer works
• (29:11) This is not your grandfather's industry—adapt, invest, and collaborate
• (31:00) Paul's Top Shops 2025 invitation and MAK20 discount code

Resources & People Mentioned

• See us at NTMA ENGAGE 2025 in Detroit (7th-10th of October) AND MTForecast 2025
• Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• Get 20% off your Top Shops registration with code MAK20

Connect with Roger Atkins

• Connect on LinkedIn
• NTMA
• MTForecast

Connect With Buy the Numbers

• Follow on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

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Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK